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| Quirk |
 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:04 pm |
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Guest
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http://www.lcurve.org/
"The US population is represented along the length
of the football field, arranged in order of income.
Median US family income (the family at the 50
yard line) is ~$40,000 (a stack of $100 bills 1.6
inches high.)
--The family on the 95 yard line earns about
$100,000 per year, a stack of $100 bills about 4
inches high.
--At the 99 yard line the income is about $300,000,
a stack of $100 bills about a foot high.
--The curve reaches $1 million (a 40 inch high stack
of $100 bills) one foot from the goal line.
--From there it keeps going up...it goes up 50 km
(~30 miles) on this scale! |
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| beebs |
| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:14 pm |
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Quirk wrote:
[quote:0ecdcaf920]http://www.lcurve.org/
"The US population is represented
along the length of the football field,
arranged in order of income.
Median US family income (the family
at the 50 yard line) is ~$40,000 (a
stack of $100 bills 1.6 inches high.)
[/quote:0ecdcaf920]
So what do you what?
Government redistribution?
beebs
anarchist |
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| Quirk |
| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:28 pm |
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Guest
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beebs wrote:
[quote:923f3cdebe]Quirk wrote:
http://www.lcurve.org/
"The US population is represented
along the length of the football field,
arranged in order of income.
Median US family income (the family
at the 50 yard line) is ~$40,000 (a
stack of $100 bills 1.6 inches high.)
So what do you what?
[/quote:923f3cdebe]
The abolition of private Rent collection.
[quote:923f3cdebe]Government redistribution?
[/quote:923f3cdebe]
Government redistribution from everyone else to Rent-seekers is the
problem. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:18 am |
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On 17 Nov 2005 13:14:30 -0800, "beebs" <beebs79@softhome.net> wrote:
[quote:b656344451]Quirk wrote:
http://www.lcurve.org/
"The US population is represented
along the length of the football field,
arranged in order of income.
Median US family income (the family
at the 50 yard line) is ~$40,000 (a
stack of $100 bills 1.6 inches high.)
So what do you what?
Government redistribution?
[/quote:b656344451]
The situation described is the _result_ of government redistributing
wealth from the productive to the rich. I have coined the word,
"plutism" to denote this forcible transfer of wealth to those who
already have the most (from Plutus, the minor Greek god of wealth --
no apparent relation to Pluto, the Roman god of the underworld -- who
was traditionally portrayed as having been blinded by Zeus to ensure
that he distributed his favors among mortals at random, without regard
for need, merit, or what we today would call incentive effects and
economic efficiency).
-- Roy L |
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| Paul Burridge |
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:27 pm |
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Guest
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On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:18:17 GMT, royls@telus.net wrote:
[quote:ab8201422d]The situation described is the _result_ of government redistributing
wealth from the productive to the rich. I have coined the word,
"plutism" to denote this forcible transfer of wealth to those who
already have the most (from Plutus, the minor Greek god of wealth --
no apparent relation to Pluto, the Roman god of the underworld -- who
was traditionally portrayed as having been blinded by Zeus to ensure
that he distributed his favors among mortals at random, without regard
for need, merit, or what we today would call incentive effects and
economic efficiency).
[/quote:ab8201422d]
Er, there's a perfectly good and already established term,
"plutocracy" which pretty much covers this. Government by the wealthy
for their own benefit, basically. No need to invent new words.
--
"What is now proved was once only imagin'd" - William Blake |
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| Dan in Philly |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:24 am |
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Guest
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"Quirk" <quirk@syntac.net> wrote in message ...
<snip>
So one million $/year is about one meter tall. So 1 billion is a kilometer.
The post implies that the highest income is 50 b$/year. That's actually the
Net Worth of Bill Gaates, not his income (which I guess is a few billion per
year).
Side note: it is an interesting question as to whether Microsoft's profits
can be considered rent (to some extent anyway), assuming there is a network
externality (ie the PC world naturally gravitates toward a single operating
system).
Similar question applies to a local utility (gas, electric) that isn't
regulated and charges a high price.
In both cases, there's nothing stopping competitors from entering, but it's
just not profitable to do so.
Dan in Philly |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:39 pm |
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On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:27:38 +0100, Paul Burridge
<pb@shove.your.spam.up.your.arse.atlanticstar.co.uk> wrote:
[quote:db82d0f8a7]On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:18:17 GMT, royls@telus.net wrote:
The situation described is the _result_ of government redistributing
wealth from the productive to the rich. I have coined the word,
"plutism" to denote this forcible transfer of wealth to those who
already have the most (from Plutus, the minor Greek god of wealth --
no apparent relation to Pluto, the Roman god of the underworld -- who
was traditionally portrayed as having been blinded by Zeus to ensure
that he distributed his favors among mortals at random, without regard
for need, merit, or what we today would call incentive effects and
economic efficiency).
Er, there's a perfectly good and already established term,
"plutocracy" which pretty much covers this.
[/quote:db82d0f8a7]
Not really.
[quote:db82d0f8a7]Government by the wealthy
for their own benefit, basically. No need to invent new words.
[/quote:db82d0f8a7]
No. "Plutocracy" denotes who is in charge, whether they act mainly to
enrich themselves or not. "Plutism" denotes an economic process
and/or system of wealth transfer that has existed under many kinds of
governments.
-- Roy L |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:41 pm |
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:24:17 -0500, "Dan in Philly" <djr8@aol.com>
wrote:
[quote:859bcf2743]"Quirk" <quirk@syntac.net> wrote in message ...
snip
So one million $/year is about one meter tall. So 1 billion is a kilometer.
The post implies that the highest income is 50 b$/year. That's actually the
Net Worth of Bill Gaates, not his income (which I guess is a few billion per
year).
Side note: it is an interesting question as to whether Microsoft's profits
can be considered rent (to some extent anyway),
[/quote:859bcf2743]
Not only its profits but almost all of its _revenues_ consist of
economic rent.
[quote:859bcf2743]assuming there is a network
externality (ie the PC world naturally gravitates toward a single operating
system).
[/quote:859bcf2743]
M$ owns the toll booth on the information superhighway, which it did
not build.
-- Roy L |
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| Michael Scheltgen |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:59 pm |
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Guest
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Quirk wrote:
[quote:e7ab76a70e]http://www.lcurve.org/
"The US population is represented along the length
of the football field, arranged in order of income.
Median US family income (the family at the 50
yard line) is ~$40,000 (a stack of $100 bills 1.6
inches high.)
--The family on the 95 yard line earns about
$100,000 per year, a stack of $100 bills about 4
inches high.
--At the 99 yard line the income is about $300,000,
a stack of $100 bills about a foot high.
--The curve reaches $1 million (a 40 inch high stack
of $100 bills) one foot from the goal line.
--From there it keeps going up...it goes up 50 km
(~30 miles) on this scale!
[/quote:e7ab76a70e]
Aside from rent collection, why wouldn't we expect the wealthy
to become wealthier? They are able to use their wealth to
create more wealth, i.e., investments, etc. Compound interest
and higher birth rates among the poor. It seems like an
economic inevitability that over time the rich will get
relatively richer and the poor get relatively poorer. |
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| Les Cargill |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:03 pm |
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Guest
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royls@telus.net wrote:
[quote:d4ceafd880]On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:24:17 -0500, "Dan in Philly" <djr8@aol.com
wrote:
snip
assuming there is a network
externality (ie the PC world naturally gravitates toward a single operating
system).
M$ owns the toll booth on the information superhighway, which it did
not build.
-- Roy L
[/quote:d4ceafd880]
It's really easy to bypass them, so it's not much of a toll booth.
I would say that Cisco comes much closer to being a rentier there.
--
Les Cargill |
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| Les Cargill |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:32 pm |
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Guest
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Michael Scheltgen wrote:
[quote:f1b047b1f8]Quirk wrote:
http://www.lcurve.org/
"The US population is represented along the length
of the football field, arranged in order of income.
Median US family income (the family at the 50
yard line) is ~$40,000 (a stack of $100 bills 1.6
inches high.)
--The family on the 95 yard line earns about
$100,000 per year, a stack of $100 bills about 4
inches high.
--At the 99 yard line the income is about $300,000,
a stack of $100 bills about a foot high.
--The curve reaches $1 million (a 40 inch high stack
of $100 bills) one foot from the goal line.
--From there it keeps going up...it goes up 50 km
(~30 miles) on this scale!
Aside from rent collection, why wouldn't we expect the wealthy to become
wealthier? They are able to use their wealth to create more wealth,
i.e., investments, etc. Compound interest and higher birth rates among
the poor. It seems like an economic inevitability that over time the
rich will get relatively richer and the poor get relatively poorer.
[/quote:f1b047b1f8]
The marginal utility of money declines, so those with less money
will put more effort in.
--
Les Cargill |
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| Quirk |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:28 pm |
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Guest
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Quirk wrote:
~~== a little more form wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall ==~~
Friends and acquaintances reported Kildall was bitter at how MS-DOS,
whose design was almost entirely based on his own ideas in creating
CP/M, made Bill Gates and Microsoft famous while he languished in
obscurity. He was particularly piqued when the University of Washington
asked him, as a distinguished graduate, to attend their computer
science program anniversary in 1992, but gave the keynote speech to
college dropout Bill Gates. Kildall died in 1994 of uncertain causes in
Monterey, California at the age of 52. Some reports say he fell off of
a bar stool at the Franklin Street Bar and Grill in Monterey on July 8
and died of internal bleeding three days later. |
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| Les Cargill |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:30 pm |
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Guest
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Quirk wrote:
[quote:686be4e470]Les Cargill wrote:
royls@telus.net wrote:
M$ owns the toll booth on the information superhighway, which it did
not build.
It's really easy to bypass them, so it's not much of a toll booth.
I would say that Cisco comes much closer to being a rentier there.
Interesting, I'd like to see you demonstrate accessing the "information
superhighway" byway of a Cisco router, without employing a desktop
computer.
[/quote:686be4e470]
I do it daily. And not all desktops run Doze.
[quote:686be4e470]And please don't tell me you do not have to run Windows on your desktop
computer. I know, I am a long-time Linux user, developer, and advocate,
the fact is that millions of computers had the Windows Rent included in
their purchace price wether or not they actually ran Windows of because
of the structure of the licencing deals Microsoft had with the PC
Manufacturers.
[/quote:686be4e470]
So don't buy from those vendors. It's not like
computers aren't ridiculously cheap, anyway.
You can recover some of the Windows Rent(tm) by
buying OEM versions of things.
[quote:686be4e470]Not to mention the fact that it runs on vasy majority of
desktops gives them a hedgemonic relatioship with the Application
developers.
[/quote:686be4e470]
I write programs which run on Windows (among
other O/S-ii ) all the time that use no Microsoft tools
at all. The Tcl/Tk toolset ( or Python, Perl or
anoy other scripting language that allows for bundled,
standalone executables ) will do the same.
I'd use the M$ stuff if it wasn't a way of
life, rather than a tools suite.
[quote:686be4e470]Bill Gates's Bank account is an account of one of the biggest market
failures in history.
[/quote:686be4e470]
I think Xenix was $10,000 per seat at the time
Windows 3.11 was first able to speak IP. When
you cut a couple zeros off the price, your bank
account swells.
[quote:686be4e470]It could easily have been Gary Kildall.
[/quote:686be4e470]
What I've read indicates he'd have rather flown his
airplane.
<snip>
Very good evidence exactly why M$ earned the bucks. They
saw it - no wonder; Gates' mom being on the board and all.
Ballmer: "We had to protect the langauge ( interpeters
& compilers ) business. "
--
Les Cargill |
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| Les Cargill |
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:35 pm |
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Guest
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Quirk wrote:
[quote:2e2fa3e5a8]Quirk wrote:
It could easily have been Gary Kildall.
Not to mention Tim Paterson
snip[/quote:2e2fa3e5a8]
Gates & Ballmer et al knew how to make the stuff
look atractive to "business computing" people.
Clearly, that was the right approach.
Interestingly enough, Bill Joy *did* make
a rather large pile with Sun, and works in venture
capital now. So it's not all tears.
--
Les Cargill |
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| Quirk |
| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:28 am |
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Guest
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Les Cargill wrote:
[quote:ed1f0ee865]Quirk wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Interesting, I'd like to see you demonstrate accessing the "information
superhighway" byway of a Cisco router, without employing a desktop
computer.
I do it daily.
[/quote:ed1f0ee865]
Great! There is a senior citizens center nextdoor, I would love to
instruct them in the use of the "information super highway" without a
Desktop computer, primarily they would be interested in email (easy to
use and spam filtered, of course), online shoping and banking, travel
sites and viewing pictures and videos on various Baby and Wedding Blogs
put up members of their families. Do you have some step-by-step
instructions I could share with them on how they might do this without
a Desktop computer? Or are you just taking nonsense?
[quote:ed1f0ee865]And not all desktops run Doze.
[/quote:ed1f0ee865]
You should have read a line two further:
[quote:ed1f0ee865]And please don't tell me you do not have to run Windows on your desktop
computer. I know, I am a long-time Linux user, developer, and advocate,
the fact is that millions of computers had the Windows Rent included in
their purchace price wether or not they actually ran Windows of because
of the structure of the licencing deals Microsoft had with the PC
Manufacturers.
So don't buy from those vendors. It's not like
computers aren't ridiculously cheap, anyway.
[/quote:ed1f0ee865]
Irrelevent, Bill Gates still recieved money every time one was sold by
one of venders with "preloading agreements" wether or not they actually
ran Windows. And, for over a decade, it was virtually impossible to buy
a PC that didn't have the Windows Rent built into it's cost, especially
if you needed an enterprise level volume retailer.
[quote:ed1f0ee865]I write programs which run on Windows (among
other O/S-ii ) all the time that use no Microsoft tools
at all.
[/quote:ed1f0ee865]
By writing tools for Windows, you still increase the Rent Micros~1 is
able to collect, wether or not you use their tools.
[quote:ed1f0ee865]Bill Gates's Bank account is an account of one of the biggest market
failures in history.
It could easily have been Gary Kildall.
What I've read indicates he'd have rather flown his
airplane.
[/quote:ed1f0ee865]
Yeah, I've been hearing (and telling) that story for years too,
according to Wikipedia some say it's a myth, but they don't offer any
real proof of that, so I'm sticking to it ;)
[quote:ed1f0ee865]Very good evidence exactly why M$ earned the bucks. They
saw it - no wonder; Gates' mom being on the board and all.
[/quote:ed1f0ee865]
Interesting! I've always heard she was their legal council, not on the
board, where did you here that?
In anycase, there you have it, securing Rent collecting from a position
of privilege. Pretty typical.
[quote:ed1f0ee865]Ballmer: "We had to protect the langauge ( interpeters
& compilers ) business. "
[/quote:ed1f0ee865]
Indeed, "protect" says it all.
Rent-seekers don't "compete" they "protect."
Cheers. |
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