"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message > > > About 29%
of those millions and millions is suffering heroically, jim.

actually as people get more prosperous they eat more meat, the Chinese,
lord
love them, are importing more soya than ever they grow just to feed
their
own pigs, poultry and fish.

Due to the power of image or perceived status, and marketing.

Indeed so dedicated are they to a life of misery that many
vegetarians miss
it so much that they go back to eating meat.

I've spoken with past vegetarians who'd returned to eating meat,
albeit in moderate amounts. The reason often seems to involve a
meat-eating partner and familly. They don't seem too happy
about it though, and often say they'd like to be vegetarian again.

awww poor dears, willing to endure that terrible pain, forced to consume
meat at vast personal misery, just because their cruel partner insisted.

Such dedication to holding the relationship together, such self
sacrifice,
wait while I dab away a tear

Don't worry, such lapsed vegetarians couldn't have been too serious
about it to begin with.

Vegetarians can eat more, while weighing less.

Pah!

J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
Levin N, Rattan J, Gilat T.
Vegetarians have a lower body weight than omnivores. In
this study the relationship between the weight/height ratio and
food consumption was evaluated in 92 ovo-lacto vegetarians
and 113 omnivores in Israel. The average weight of the
vegetarians was significantly lower than that of the omnivores
(60.8 kg vs. 69.1 kg), even though the vegetarian diet supplied
a significantly higher amount of calories than the nonvegetarian
diet (3,030.5 cal/day vs. 2,626.8 cal/day). Consumption of fat
was similar in both groups. Carbohydrate consumption was
higher in the vegetarians while protein consumption was lower.
The prevalence of obesity was significantly lower in the
vegetarian group (5.4%) as compared to 19.5% among the
omnivores. The lower body weight of vegetarians despite a
higher caloric intake is of considerable interest.
PMID: 3760524

Although I don't consider myself a perfect example, mind.

People that are healthy do die at a significantly greater age than
people with compromised health, and they are more intelligent,
as their brain is also healthier and thus functions better,

and they are more virile,

as their endocrine system and organs are also
healthier, and they are better looking,

because they have good
skin tone, colour and complexion, bright eyes, and they are fit,
and they are more likely to succeed in life because of the above.

Fatist!

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrmee$5um$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Michael Saunby" <msaunby@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:btrjgt$m70$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

..

What do vegetarians die of? I suspect that they actually die of exactly
the same causes as everyone else - or suicide.

Old age for the most part, I imagine.


Indeed you do, you dream, and dream, and dream.

You claim you know for a
fact that eating meat will be the cause of death for those who eat meat,

but are happy yourself just to go blind, senile, and rot to death from a
variety of causes,

simply because you are sure that not eating meat is the
right thing not only for yourself, but everyone else.

All this with no
evidence at all that not eating meat will present you with a better quality
of life.

Michael Saunby

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:33:07 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote:

Vegetarians can eat more, while weighing less.

Pah!

J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
Levin N, Rattan J, Gilat T.
Vegetarians have a lower body weight than omnivores. In
this study the relationship between the weight/height ratio and
food consumption was evaluated in 92 ovo-lacto vegetarians
and 113 omnivores in Israel. The average weight of the
vegetarians was significantly lower than that of the omnivores
(60.8 kg vs. 69.1 kg), even though the vegetarian diet supplied
a significantly higher amount of calories than the nonvegetarian
diet (3,030.5 cal/day vs. 2,626.8 cal/day). Consumption of fat
was similar in both groups. Carbohydrate consumption was
higher in the vegetarians while protein consumption was lower.
The prevalence of obesity was significantly lower in the
vegetarian group (5.4%) as compared to 19.5% among the
omnivores. The lower body weight of vegetarians despite a
higher caloric intake is of considerable interest.
PMID: 3760524

Although I don't consider myself a perfect example, mind.

[..]
People that are healthy do die at a significantly greater age than
people with compromised health, and they are more intelligent,
as their brain is also healthier and thus functions better,

Oh thanks, cow.

and they are more virile,

That's debatable.

as their endocrine system and organs are also
healthier, and they are better looking,

Beeatch!

because they have good
skin tone, colour and complexion, bright eyes, and they are fit,
and they are more likely to succeed in life because of the above.

Fatist!

People that are healthy do die at a significantly greater age than
people with compromised health, and they are more intelligent,
as their brain is also healthier and thus functions better, and they
are more virile, as their endocrine system and organs are also
healthier, and they are better looking, because they have good
skin tone, colour and complexion, bright eyes, and they are fit,
and they are more likely to succeed in life because of the above.

....

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrqu6$7ct$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message > > > About 29%
of those millions and millions is suffering heroically, jim.

actually as people get more prosperous they eat more meat, the Chinese, lord
love them, are importing more soya than ever they grow just to feed their
own pigs, poultry and fish.

Due to the power of image or perceived status, and marketing.

and of course the fact that they enjoy it. Nice bit of beef, with

potatoes, parsnips, carrots and peas, perfect meal for a Sunday

Indeed so dedicated are they to a life of misery that many vegetarians miss
it so much that they go back to eating meat.

I've spoken with past vegetarians who'd returned to eating meat,
albeit in moderate amounts. The reason often seems to involve a
meat-eating partner and familly. They don't seem too happy
about it though, and often say they'd like to be vegetarian again.

awww poor dears, willing to endure that terrible pain, forced to consume
meat at vast personal misery, just because their cruel partner insisted.

Such dedication to holding the relationship together, such self sacrifice,
wait while I dab away a tear

Don't worry, such lapsed vegetarians couldn't have been too serious
about it to begin with.

ah, so you have to have some sort of moral drive to be a vegetarian.

Yet the
sole purpose of this moral drive seems to be to avoid "feeling miserable,
possibly in pain, for most of the time".

So actually it is the weak willed that are capable of putting up with that
pain for most of the time

Interesting

"ipse dixit" <nospam@email.com> wrote in message news:fjr2005uuvcmisafhe3s1oce5p71637nn8@4ax.com...

Fatist!

You on some dire negative trip, or wot?

Oh come off it; I've called you worse, skinny

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrqdt$765$1@kermit.esat.net...
...

People that are healthy do die at a significantly greater age than
people with compromised health, and they are more intelligent,
as their brain is also healthier and thus functions better, and they
are more virile, as their endocrine system and organs are also
healthier, and they are better looking, because they have good
skin tone, colour and complexion, bright eyes, and they are fit,
and they are more likely to succeed in life because of the above.
...
Unfortunately you are extrapolating from data on causes of death, e.g.
heart failure, to common causes of those diseases, e.g. poor diet

and then
concluding that you and others like you will on average live longer and
healthier lives. To some extent this is true, e.g. motorcyclists don't
live as long as others so not riding a motorcycle will, on average, result
in a longer life.

What you are failing to recognise is that you will die, your death may
actually be quite extended with a long and painful end, so your claims of
better quality of life for veg*ns is unproved.

You might wish to consider the reality of differences in life expectancy
between different
groups -http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article375.html

" UCLA researchers for the first time have identified and ranked which
diseases contribute most to the life-expectancy gap between races and
between education levels. The top four contributors to the life-expectancy
disparity between blacks and whites are hypertension, HIV, homicide and
diabetes. The top six contributors of mortality differences between
education levels are all smoking-related diseases."

So what is it that drives veg*ns to argue for changes to a meat free diet
when there are bigger issues to worry about, if global life expectancy is
what you are seeking to improve?

Oh, perhaps this should be more of a concern for some here -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3114493.stm "Arts students die young" ...


Michael Saunby

"Michael Saunby" <msaunby@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:btrrsj$39d$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrqdt$765$1@kermit.esat.net...
...

People that are healthy do die at a significantly greater age than
people with compromised health, and they are more intelligent,
as their brain is also healthier and thus functions better, and they
are more virile, as their endocrine system and organs are also
healthier, and they are better looking, because they have good
skin tone, colour and complexion, bright eyes, and they are fit,
and they are more likely to succeed in life because of the above.
...
Unfortunately you are extrapolating from data on causes of death, e.g.
heart failure, to common causes of those diseases, e.g. poor diet

Correctly, but unfortunately for you, as you're that stuck on a steak.

and then
concluding that you and others like you will on average live longer and
healthier lives. To some extent this is true, e.g. motorcyclists don't
live as long as others so not riding a motorcycle will, on average,
result
in a longer life.

Yes.

What you are failing to recognise is that you will die, your death may
actually be quite extended with a long and painful end, so your claims
of
better quality of life for veg*ns is unproved.

Not so, because as we have seen, it is _meat-eating_ that is associated
with chronic diseases, *not* a healthy (high quality) vegetarian diet.
You might wish to consider the reality of differences in life expectancy
between different
groups -http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article375.html

" UCLA researchers for the first time have identified and ranked which
diseases contribute most to the life-expectancy gap between races and
between education levels. The top four contributors to the
life-expectancy
disparity between blacks and whites are hypertension, HIV, homicide and
diabetes. The top six contributors of mortality differences between
education levels are all smoking-related diseases."

Meat-eating will contribute to, if not directly cause, both hypertension
(high blood-pressure) and diabetes.

So what is it that drives veg*ns to argue for changes to a meat free
diet
when there are bigger issues to worry about, if global life expectancy
is
what you are seeking to improve?

Meat-eating is directly associated with many of those bigger issues.

Oh, perhaps this should be more of a concern for some here -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3114493.stm "Arts students die young"
....


Michael Saunby

"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btrr8c$lh9$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrqu6$7ct$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message > > > About
29%
of those millions and millions is suffering heroically, jim.

actually as people get more prosperous they eat more meat, the
Chinese, lord
love them, are importing more soya than ever they grow just to feed
their
own pigs, poultry and fish.

Due to the power of image or perceived status, and marketing.

and of course the fact that they enjoy it. Nice bit of beef, with

Measuring Brain Activity In People Eating Chocolate Offers
New Clues About How The Body Becomes Addicted

potatoes, parsnips, carrots and peas, perfect meal for a Sunday

Indeed so dedicated are they to a life of misery that many
vegetarians miss
it so much that they go back to eating meat.

I've spoken with past vegetarians who'd returned to eating meat,
albeit in moderate amounts. The reason often seems to involve a
meat-eating partner and familly. They don't seem too happy
about it though, and often say they'd like to be vegetarian again.

awww poor dears, willing to endure that terrible pain, forced to
consume
meat at vast personal misery, just because their cruel partner
insisted.

Such dedication to holding the relationship together, such self
sacrifice,
wait while I dab away a tear

Don't worry, such lapsed vegetarians couldn't have been too serious
about it to begin with.

ah, so you have to have some sort of moral drive to be a vegetarian.

I think health concerns are the primary motive for most.

Yet the
sole purpose of this moral drive seems to be to avoid "feeling
miserable,
possibly in pain, for most of the time".

Avoid disease. Yes, for many it is.

"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btruu0$5ii$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrs7i$7r2$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btrr8c$lh9$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message

About 29% of those millions and millions is suffering heroically,
jim.

actually as people get more prosperous they eat more meat, the
Chinese, lord
love them, are importing more soya than ever they grow just to
feed their
own pigs, poultry and fish.

Due to the power of image or perceived status, and marketing.

and of course the fact that they enjoy it. Nice bit of beef, with

Measuring Brain Activity In People Eating Chocolate Offers
New Clues About How The Body Becomes Addicted

snipped gumph which had nothing to do with nice bit of beef

Denial is the hallmark of addiction, jim. Thanks.

..
I think health concerns are the primary motive for most.

pity about that. To sit there being so healthy and watch the rest of the
world enjoying themselves while heroically disguising the fact that
their
lives are endless pain and misery. But at least all the meat eaters
reading
this will know how much pain and misery they are suffering and will
weigh
your words accordingly

Fine.

Yet the
sole purpose of this moral drive seems to be to avoid "feeling
miserable,
possibly in pain, for most of the time".

Avoid disease. Yes, for many it is.

so actually they avoid meat so that they don't have to suffer the pain
and
misery the rest of us are suffering. Never mind, all us meat eaters will
happily put up with it, so don't you worry your head about us. Just keep
up
the old avoidance and we will get on with eating the meat. After all, as
we
know the pain and misery that we feel, we can of course give your words
the
consideration they warrant

Good. Please do.

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrs7i$7r2$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btrr8c$lh9$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message

About 29% of those millions and millions is suffering heroically, jim.

actually as people get more prosperous they eat more meat, the Chinese, lord
love them, are importing more soya than ever they grow just to feed their
own pigs, poultry and fish.

Due to the power of image or perceived status, and marketing.

and of course the fact that they enjoy it. Nice bit of beef, with

Measuring Brain Activity In People Eating Chocolate Offers
New Clues About How The Body Becomes Addicted

snipped gumph which had nothing to do with nice bit of beef

I think health concerns are the primary motive for most.

pity about that. To sit there being so healthy and watch the rest of the
world enjoying themselves while heroically disguising the fact that their
lives are endless pain and misery. But at least all the meat eaters reading
this will know how much pain and misery they are suffering and will weigh
your words accordingly

Yet the
sole purpose of this moral drive seems to be to avoid "feeling miserable,
possibly in pain, for most of the time".

Avoid disease. Yes, for many it is.

so actually they avoid meat so that they don't have to suffer the pain and
misery the rest of us are suffering. Never mind, all us meat eaters will
happily put up with it, so don't you worry your head about us. Just keep up
the old avoidance and we will get on with eating the meat. After all, as we
know the pain and misery that we feel, we can of course give your words the
consideration they warrant

Jim Webster

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrst1$863$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Michael Saunby" <msaunby@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:btrrsj$39d$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrqdt$765$1@kermit.esat.net...
..
Meat-eating will contribute to, if not directly cause, both hypertension
(high blood-pressure) and diabetes.

So what is it that drives veg*ns to argue for changes to a meat free diet
when there are bigger issues to worry about, if global life expectancy is
what you are seeking to improve?

Meat-eating is directly associated with many of those bigger issues.

Is it meat eating in general, or *excessive* meat eating? Are there
statistics or studies that reference the life spans of people who eat
moderate amounts of eat, as opposed to those that eat at McDs 5 times a
week? I would imagine the key factor in determining longevity and health
would be the amount of meat one consumes. For example, if I ate one lean
steak and 2 chicken breasts, 3 broiled fish, and a handful of eggs and
glasses of milk per week (and the rest a healthy veggie diet), I would
imagine the negative health consequences to be minimal (although tbh I don't
know for certain).

"ta" <ta33@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:JVeMb.25287$qC.14648@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrst1$863$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Michael Saunby" <msaunby@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:btrrsj$39d$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrqdt$765$1@kermit.esat.net...
..
Meat-eating will contribute to, if not directly cause, both
hypertension
(high blood-pressure) and diabetes.

So what is it that drives veg*ns to argue for changes to a meat free
diet
when there are bigger issues to worry about, if global life
expectancy is
what you are seeking to improve?

Meat-eating is directly associated with many of those bigger issues.

Is it meat eating in general, or *excessive* meat eating? Are there
statistics or studies that reference the life spans of people who eat
moderate amounts of eat, as opposed to those that eat at McDs 5 times a
week? I would imagine the key factor in determining longevity and
health
would be the amount of meat one consumes. For example, if I ate one lean
steak and 2 chicken breasts, 3 broiled fish, and a handful of eggs and
glasses of milk per week (and the rest a healthy veggie diet), I would
imagine the negative health consequences to be minimal (although tbh I
don't
know for certain).

Again-

'The Cornell-China-Oxford Project is a massive survey of more
than 10,000 families in mainland China and Taiwan designed to
study diet, lifestyle and disease across the far reaches of China.
By investigating simultaneously more diseases and more dietary
characteristics than any other study to date, the project has
generated the most comprehensive database in the world on the
multiple causes of disease. Much of the research behind the
pyramid is based on the China project's research findings.
..
"This pyramid reflects the growing body of research that suggests
that Americans will not reduce their rate of cancers, cardiovascular
disease and other chronic, degenerative diseases until they shift
their diets away from animal-based foods to plant-based foods,"
Campbell said. "Evidence suggests that eating even small amounts
of animal- based foods is linked at least for many individuals to
significantly higher rates of cancers and cardiovascular diseases
typically found in the United States." Further, he reported last year,
merely eating some low-fat foods or complying with current U.S.
dietary recommendations is unlikely to prevent much disease.
The dietary recommendations, Campbell said, do not go far
enough in reducing the total fat content of the diet, or, more to
the point, in advocating the exchange of foods of animal origin for
foods of plant origin.
..
"The nutrient composition of the traditional rural Asian diet is very
similar to the Mediterranean diet in that both are largely plant-based
and both pyramids recommend that meat be consumed no more
than once a month or more often in very small amounts," said
T. Colin Campbell, Cornell professor of nutritional biochemistry,
co-chair of the conference and director of the Cornell-China-Oxford
Project. "However, the Asian diet, which is significantly lower in
total fat, may prove to be an even more healthful diet," he added. '
http://www.news.cornell.edu/general/Dec95/asianpyramid.ssl.html

Animal product consumption and mortality because of all
causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes,
and cancer in Seventh-day Adventists.
Snowdon DA.
Division of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University
of Minnesota, Minneapolis.
This report reviews, contrasts, and illustrates previously published
findings from a cohort of 27,529 California Seventh-day Adventist
adults who completed questionnaires in 1960 and were followed
for mortality between 1960 and 1980. Within this population, meat
consumption was positively associated with mortality because of all
causes of death combined (in males), coronary heart disease (in
males and females), and diabetes (in males). Egg consumption was
positively associated with mortality because of all causes combined
(in females), coronary heart disease (in females), and cancers of the
colon (in males and females combined) and ovary. Milk consumption
was positively associated with only prostate cancer mortality, and
cheese consumption did not have a clear relationship with any cause
of death. The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not
have negative associations with any of the causes of death
investigated.
PMID: 3046303 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

"If you step back and look at the data, the optimum amount
of red meat you eat should be zero."
-- Walter Willett, M.D., of Brigham and Women's Hospital,
director of a study that found a close correlation between
red meat consumption and colon cancer.

See; http://www.iol.ie/~creature/BiologicalAdaptations.htm .

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:bts1tk$a0e$1@kermit.esat.net...
"ta" <ta33@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:JVeMb.25287$qC.14648@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrst1$863$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Michael Saunby" <msaunby@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:btrrsj$39d$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrqdt$765$1@kermit.esat.net...
..
Meat-eating will contribute to, if not directly cause, both hypertension
(high blood-pressure) and diabetes.

So what is it that drives veg*ns to argue for changes to a meat free diet
when there are bigger issues to worry about, if global life expectancy is
what you are seeking to improve?

Meat-eating is directly associated with many of those bigger issues.

Is it meat eating in general, or *excessive* meat eating? Are there
statistics or studies that reference the life spans of people who eat
moderate amounts of eat, as opposed to those that eat at McDs 5 times a
week? I would imagine the key factor in determining longevity and health
would be the amount of meat one consumes. For example, if I ate one lean
steak and 2 chicken breasts, 3 broiled fish, and a handful of eggs and
glasses of milk per week (and the rest a healthy veggie diet), I would
imagine the negative health consequences to be minimal (although tbh I don't
know for certain).

Again-

Why do say "Again"? I don't see this information posted anywhere else in
this thread.

'The Cornell-China-Oxford Project is a massive survey of more
than 10,000 families in mainland China and Taiwan designed to
study diet, lifestyle and disease across the far reaches of China.
By investigating simultaneously more diseases and more dietary
characteristics than any other study to date, the project has
generated the most comprehensive database in the world on the
multiple causes of disease. Much of the research behind the
pyramid is based on the China project's research findings.
..
"This pyramid reflects the growing body of research that suggests
that Americans will not reduce their rate of cancers, cardiovascular
disease and other chronic, degenerative diseases until they shift
their diets away from animal-based foods to plant-based foods,"
Campbell said. "Evidence suggests that eating even small amounts
of animal- based foods is linked at least for many individuals to
significantly higher rates of cancers and cardiovascular diseases
typically found in the United States." Further, he reported last year,
merely eating some low-fat foods or complying with current U.S.
dietary recommendations is unlikely to prevent much disease.
The dietary recommendations, Campbell said, do not go far
enough in reducing the total fat content of the diet, or, more to
the point, in advocating the exchange of foods of animal origin for
foods of plant origin.
..
"The nutrient composition of the traditional rural Asian diet is very
similar to the Mediterranean diet in that both are largely plant-based
and both pyramids recommend that meat be consumed no more
than once a month or more often in very small amounts," said
T. Colin Campbell, Cornell professor of nutritional biochemistry,
co-chair of the conference and director of the Cornell-China-Oxford
Project. "However, the Asian diet, which is significantly lower in
total fat, may prove to be an even more healthful diet," he added. '
http://www.news.cornell.edu/general/Dec95/asianpyramid.ssl.html

"The Asian Diet Pyramid emphasizes a wide base of rice, rice products,
noodles, breads and grains, preferably whole grain and minimally processed
foods, topped by another large band of fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts and
seeds. Daily physical exercise, a small amount of vegetable oil and a
moderate consumption of plant-based beverages, including tea (especially
black and green), sake, beer and wine also are recommended daily. Small
daily servings of dairy products (low fat) or fish are optional; sweets,
eggs and poultry are recommended no more than weekly, and red meat no more
than monthly."

So moderate amounts of animal products are not necessarily deadly then,
right?

The impromptu example I gave aboves was a "largely plant-based" diet.
Just change "one lean steak a week" to "one lean steak a month".

Animal product consumption and mortality because of all
causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes,
and cancer in Seventh-day Adventists.
Snowdon DA.
Division of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University
of Minnesota, Minneapolis.
This report reviews, contrasts, and illustrates previously published
findings from a cohort of 27,529 California Seventh-day Adventist
adults who completed questionnaires in 1960 and were followed
for mortality between 1960 and 1980. Within this population, meat
consumption was positively associated with mortality because of all
causes of death combined (in males), coronary heart disease (in
males and females), and diabetes (in males). Egg consumption was
positively associated with mortality because of all causes combined
(in females), coronary heart disease (in females), and cancers of the
colon (in males and females combined) and ovary. Milk consumption
was positively associated with only prostate cancer mortality, and
cheese consumption did not have a clear relationship with any cause
of death. The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not
have negative associations with any of the causes of death
investigated.
PMID: 3046303 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

"If you step back and look at the data, the optimum amount
of red meat you eat should be zero."
-- Walter Willett, M.D., of Brigham and Women's Hospital,
director of a study that found a close correlation between
red meat consumption and colon cancer.

"Willett advocates the "Mediterranean diet" of the trim, hardy peoples of
southern Italy and Greece. The Mediterranean diet includes plenty of
tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables, whole grains and olive oil, with
most dairy products consumed moderately in fermented form like yogurt or
cheese."

http://www.umich.edu/~newsinfo/MT/96/Fall96/mta1f96.html

The Mediterranean diet does advocate small amounts of meat, fish, and dairy,
as in my example above.

"All foods from animal sources, especially red meat as illustrated on the
pyramid was used sparingly. Total red meat and poultry consumed was about 15
oz per week. Fish intake varied between countries but overall was slightly
higher, about 5-15 oz per week
Although the available data can not be definitive, there is evidence that
suggests red meat is associated with colon cancer, prostate cancer and heart
disease . We can not assume the risk is due solely to the fat content, but
possibly the carcinogens formed from cooking. Further more, animal products
contain no fiber or antioxidants and may displace plant based foods that do
contain these important elements."

http://www.cheshire-med.com/services/dietary/nutrinew/mediter.html

See; http://www.iol.ie/~creature/BiologicalAdaptations.htm .