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Message |
| Michael Ejercito |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:06 pm |
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Guest
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Libertarian Solutions: Non-governmental solutions to the "problem" of
global warming
By John Semmens
I recently had the opportunity to appear in a televised debate on the
state of the environment. My debate opponent announced that she had
just participated in a telephone conference call set up by the
Environmental Protection Agency. The main focus of this call was
global warming.
I was informed that the scientific consensus is that there is a
warming trend and that this is bad news. It was also asserted that the
cause of this undesirable warming is our love affair with the
automobile. It is this line of thinking that has inspired our Vice
President, Al Gore, to assert that we must endure a wrenching change
in our lifestyle by doing away with the internal combustion engine.
Before we give up our cherished mobility, wreck our economy, and hand
dictatorial powers to government so it can deal with this purported
crisis of global warming, let us consider the issue from a more
dispassionate perspective.
First, there is the question of whether there is, in fact, a warming
trend. While many climatologists believe so, others are not convinced
that this is the case, or that a human-caused increase in greenhouse
gases is responsible. The climate of the planet has always been
variable. The magnitude of these climatological changes has far
surpassed anything that might be the result of recent human activity.
This alone would seem to create a good deal of uncertainty about in
which direction the global temperatures might be headed and whether
anything that humans do has a significant part to play.
There are other reasons for uncertainty. In the 1970s, some of the
same people who are now demanding drastic action to prevent global
warming were demanding drastic action to prevent global cooling. They
seem to have a fixed idea that SOME global disaster must be underway.
Second, though, even if we accept the proposition that the earth is
getting warmer, it is by no means clear that this would, on balance,
be a bad thing. The current climate is relatively warm compared to the
norm over the past several million years. We are in the midst of a
warm interlude between ice ages. For 90% of the last 100,000 of those
years, a mile-thick sheet of ice covered half of North America and
substantial portions of Europe and Asia. It seems doubtful that a
plunge into another ice age, even if it were a natural occurrence,
would be favorably perceived by most human beings.
After all, the warming of the planet after the last ice age seems to
have coincided with the rise of human civilization. Maybe warmer is
better. Growing seasons might be extended. Agricultural output might
increase. Our ability to overcome hunger and malnutrition could be
enhanced.
Third, even if we accept that global warming is taking place and is a
bad thing, it does not follow that wrenching changes are appropriate.
The much-maligned automobile, for example, is responsible for only a
small fraction of the greenhouse gases blamed for the current
reputedly unnatural warming trend.
Each year, there are about 150 billion tons of carbon dioxide
emissions from all sources. Only about 7 billion (or 5%) of this
tonnage is the result of human activity. The remaining 95% are from
natural, i.e. non-human, sources. Less than 3/10ths of a billion tons
of CO2 are emitted by autos in the U.S. So, if every car in America
were permanently parked, global carbon dioxide emissions would be
reduced by less than 2/10ths of 1%. That is, 99.8% of the emissions
would be untouched by this draconian strategy against American
mobility. Lesser impacts like "no-drive days" or mass transit
subsidies would have triflingly tiny impacts.
In general, then, an effort to prevent CO2 from getting into the
atmosphere by restricting mobility and retarding industry does not
appear very promising as a means of reducing the concentration of that
particular gas. The cost would be huge and the results minuscule.
A better approach might be to focus on strategies aimed at absorbing
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Plants use it as an input to their
growth. Consequently, a strategy that promotes plant growth would act
to convert carbon dioxide into vegetative biomass. Growing more trees,
harvesting mature wood and converting it into durable wooden products,
and replanting new trees would promote a sustainable cycle that would
remove CO2 from the air and reduce whatever contribution it is, in
fact, making to global warming.
But just as environmentalists of today crusade to decrease CO2
concentrations, so the same folks crusade to recycle paper, without
even considering that one goal may be counterproductive from the point
of view of the other. Putting discarded paper products into landfills
where they will be buried and prevented from oxidizing in itself
reduces carbon dioxide output. Further, it stimulates the use and
replanting of more virgin timber for the production of more paper,
which would contribute to the strategy of converting CO2 into biomass.
Another solution to the problem of greenhouse gas concentrations (and,
again, one which is not wrenching to American lifestyles and
industries) is the fertilization of the oceans with iron-based
compounds, which would extract CO2 from the air by stimulating plant
growth. After all, some of my readers probably put iron-based
fertilizers on the ground in front of their homes to get a lusher lawn
-- i.e., to stimulate plant growth. Spreading fertilizer in the oceans
could also substantially increase food supplies for aquatic animals
throughout the food chain -- possibly aiding in the preservation of
some endangered species. Neither the increased planting and harvesting
of trees for wood, nor the fertilization of the oceans, would require
the kinds of sacrifice being demanded by environmentalists like Vice
President Gore.
Neither would they require that we yield our valued freedom to live
our lives as we think best to some environmental czar or bureaucracy.
The fact that more practical, cost-effective, and less intrusive
options for dealing with the perceived threat of global warming are
ignored in favor of schemes that would place broad new powers in the
hands of government persuades me that saving the planet is, at best, a
secondary concern of those demanding that we sacrifice freedom and
prosperity. More likely, the continuing stream of environmental crises
are pretexts for the acquisition of more government power over how
people live their lives. As the violent history of the twentieth
century's governments has amply demonstrated, there are few things
worse for human and other life forms than expanded government power.
John Semmens is a member of the Arizona Advisory Council on
Environmental Education. Reprinted courtesy of The Pragmatist, Box
392, Forest Grove PA 18992.
EDITOR'S NOTE: How can Libertarianism solve America's problems? Each
issue, LP News will showcase how "Libertarian Solutions" -- or interim
steps in a libertarian direction -- can help improve our nation. |
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| Cary Kittrell |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:57 pm |
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Guest
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In article <792abaf9.0401081529.124fc194@posting.google.com> dbohara@mindspring.com (Parallax) writes:
<"Marvin Margoshes" <physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<vvrc1fck26nq40@corp.supernews.com>...
<> On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
<>
<> I see TV adds now from a tobacco company, warning that smoking is addictive
<> and can kill. They are the one of the tobacco companies who kept dsaying,
<> "It hasn't been proven". Do you, perhaps, recognize yourself?
<>
<> "Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<> news:6930a3c6.0401081006.4929a726@posting.google.com...
<> > Libertarian Solutions: Non-governmental solutions to the "problem" of
<> > global warming
<> >
<> > By John Semmens
{...}
<> >
<> > Each year, there are about 150 billion tons of carbon dioxide
<> > emissions from all sources. Only about 7 billion (or 5%) of this
<> > tonnage is the result of human activity. The remaining 95% are from
<> > natural, i.e. non-human, sources. Less than 3/10ths of a billion tons
<> > of CO2 are emitted by autos in the U.S. So, if every car in America
<> > were permanently parked, global carbon dioxide emissions would be
<> > reduced by less than 2/10ths of 1%. That is, 99.8% of the emissions
<> > would be untouched by this draconian strategy against American
<> > mobility. Lesser impacts like "no-drive days" or mass transit
<> > subsidies would have triflingly tiny impacts.
<> >
{...}
<
< IS this figure of 5% CO2 releases being anthropogenic accepted? If
< so, advoccates of anthropegenic warming have some "splainin to do.
Depending, of course, on the absolute amount of rise in temperature
which could be caused by a 5% increase in CO2. In other words,
if the remaining 95% were necessary to keep the climate at the
level we've evolved to be comfortable with, then a small increase,
relatively speaking, could be significant. (my house is around
295 Kelvin. If I turn up the thermostat by 5% in an absolute sense, the
temperature goes up to 97 F. too toasty for sleeping)
Pure speculation on my part; I'm not claiming that this is the case.
-- cary |
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| Marvin Margoshes |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:31 pm |
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Guest
|
On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
I see TV adds now from a tobacco company, warning that smoking is addictive
and can kill. They are the one of the tobacco companies who kept dsaying,
"It hasn't been proven". Do you, perhaps, recognize yourself?
"Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6930a3c6.0401081006.4929a726@posting.google.com...
Quote: Libertarian Solutions: Non-governmental solutions to the "problem" of
global warming
By John Semmens
I recently had the opportunity to appear in a televised debate on the
state of the environment. My debate opponent announced that she had
just participated in a telephone conference call set up by the
Environmental Protection Agency. The main focus of this call was
global warming.
I was informed that the scientific consensus is that there is a
warming trend and that this is bad news. It was also asserted that the
cause of this undesirable warming is our love affair with the
automobile. It is this line of thinking that has inspired our Vice
President, Al Gore, to assert that we must endure a wrenching change
in our lifestyle by doing away with the internal combustion engine.
Before we give up our cherished mobility, wreck our economy, and hand
dictatorial powers to government so it can deal with this purported
crisis of global warming, let us consider the issue from a more
dispassionate perspective.
First, there is the question of whether there is, in fact, a warming
trend. While many climatologists believe so, others are not convinced
that this is the case, or that a human-caused increase in greenhouse
gases is responsible. The climate of the planet has always been
variable. The magnitude of these climatological changes has far
surpassed anything that might be the result of recent human activity.
This alone would seem to create a good deal of uncertainty about in
which direction the global temperatures might be headed and whether
anything that humans do has a significant part to play.
There are other reasons for uncertainty. In the 1970s, some of the
same people who are now demanding drastic action to prevent global
warming were demanding drastic action to prevent global cooling. They
seem to have a fixed idea that SOME global disaster must be underway.
Second, though, even if we accept the proposition that the earth is
getting warmer, it is by no means clear that this would, on balance,
be a bad thing. The current climate is relatively warm compared to the
norm over the past several million years. We are in the midst of a
warm interlude between ice ages. For 90% of the last 100,000 of those
years, a mile-thick sheet of ice covered half of North America and
substantial portions of Europe and Asia. It seems doubtful that a
plunge into another ice age, even if it were a natural occurrence,
would be favorably perceived by most human beings.
After all, the warming of the planet after the last ice age seems to
have coincided with the rise of human civilization. Maybe warmer is
better. Growing seasons might be extended. Agricultural output might
increase. Our ability to overcome hunger and malnutrition could be
enhanced.
Third, even if we accept that global warming is taking place and is a
bad thing, it does not follow that wrenching changes are appropriate.
The much-maligned automobile, for example, is responsible for only a
small fraction of the greenhouse gases blamed for the current
reputedly unnatural warming trend.
Each year, there are about 150 billion tons of carbon dioxide
emissions from all sources. Only about 7 billion (or 5%) of this
tonnage is the result of human activity. The remaining 95% are from
natural, i.e. non-human, sources. Less than 3/10ths of a billion tons
of CO2 are emitted by autos in the U.S. So, if every car in America
were permanently parked, global carbon dioxide emissions would be
reduced by less than 2/10ths of 1%. That is, 99.8% of the emissions
would be untouched by this draconian strategy against American
mobility. Lesser impacts like "no-drive days" or mass transit
subsidies would have triflingly tiny impacts.
In general, then, an effort to prevent CO2 from getting into the
atmosphere by restricting mobility and retarding industry does not
appear very promising as a means of reducing the concentration of that
particular gas. The cost would be huge and the results minuscule.
A better approach might be to focus on strategies aimed at absorbing
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Plants use it as an input to their
growth. Consequently, a strategy that promotes plant growth would act
to convert carbon dioxide into vegetative biomass. Growing more trees,
harvesting mature wood and converting it into durable wooden products,
and replanting new trees would promote a sustainable cycle that would
remove CO2 from the air and reduce whatever contribution it is, in
fact, making to global warming.
But just as environmentalists of today crusade to decrease CO2
concentrations, so the same folks crusade to recycle paper, without
even considering that one goal may be counterproductive from the point
of view of the other. Putting discarded paper products into landfills
where they will be buried and prevented from oxidizing in itself
reduces carbon dioxide output. Further, it stimulates the use and
replanting of more virgin timber for the production of more paper,
which would contribute to the strategy of converting CO2 into biomass.
Another solution to the problem of greenhouse gas concentrations (and,
again, one which is not wrenching to American lifestyles and
industries) is the fertilization of the oceans with iron-based
compounds, which would extract CO2 from the air by stimulating plant
growth. After all, some of my readers probably put iron-based
fertilizers on the ground in front of their homes to get a lusher lawn
-- i.e., to stimulate plant growth. Spreading fertilizer in the oceans
could also substantially increase food supplies for aquatic animals
throughout the food chain -- possibly aiding in the preservation of
some endangered species. Neither the increased planting and harvesting
of trees for wood, nor the fertilization of the oceans, would require
the kinds of sacrifice being demanded by environmentalists like Vice
President Gore.
Neither would they require that we yield our valued freedom to live
our lives as we think best to some environmental czar or bureaucracy.
The fact that more practical, cost-effective, and less intrusive
options for dealing with the perceived threat of global warming are
ignored in favor of schemes that would place broad new powers in the
hands of government persuades me that saving the planet is, at best, a
secondary concern of those demanding that we sacrifice freedom and
prosperity. More likely, the continuing stream of environmental crises
are pretexts for the acquisition of more government power over how
people live their lives. As the violent history of the twentieth
century's governments has amply demonstrated, there are few things
worse for human and other life forms than expanded government power.
John Semmens is a member of the Arizona Advisory Council on
Environmental Education. Reprinted courtesy of The Pragmatist, Box
392, Forest Grove PA 18992.
EDITOR'S NOTE: How can Libertarianism solve America's problems? Each
issue, LP News will showcase how "Libertarian Solutions" -- or interim
steps in a libertarian direction -- can help improve our nation. |
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| Brain Death |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:49 pm |
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Guest
|
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:31:56 -0500, "Marvin Margoshes"
<physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote:
Quote: On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
On the off chance that the global warming alarmists are wrong, who
makes up for the lost wealth and income due to reduced economic
growth?
Quote: I see TV adds now from a tobacco company, warning that smoking is addictive
and can kill. They are the one of the tobacco companies who kept dsaying,
"It hasn't been proven". Do you, perhaps, recognize yourself?
Although the first part of the article does seem more devoted to
disproving global warming, the second part does discuss specific
solutions including carbon sequestering and stimulating plant growth
in the oceans.
BD
Quote: "Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6930a3c6.0401081006.4929a726@posting.google.com...
Libertarian Solutions: Non-governmental solutions to the "problem" of
global warming
By John Semmens
I recently had the opportunity to appear in a televised debate on the
state of the environment. My debate opponent announced that she had
just participated in a telephone conference call set up by the
Environmental Protection Agency. The main focus of this call was
global warming.
I was informed that the scientific consensus is that there is a
warming trend and that this is bad news. It was also asserted that the
cause of this undesirable warming is our love affair with the
automobile. It is this line of thinking that has inspired our Vice
President, Al Gore, to assert that we must endure a wrenching change
in our lifestyle by doing away with the internal combustion engine.
Before we give up our cherished mobility, wreck our economy, and hand
dictatorial powers to government so it can deal with this purported
crisis of global warming, let us consider the issue from a more
dispassionate perspective.
First, there is the question of whether there is, in fact, a warming
trend. While many climatologists believe so, others are not convinced
that this is the case, or that a human-caused increase in greenhouse
gases is responsible. The climate of the planet has always been
variable. The magnitude of these climatological changes has far
surpassed anything that might be the result of recent human activity.
This alone would seem to create a good deal of uncertainty about in
which direction the global temperatures might be headed and whether
anything that humans do has a significant part to play.
There are other reasons for uncertainty. In the 1970s, some of the
same people who are now demanding drastic action to prevent global
warming were demanding drastic action to prevent global cooling. They
seem to have a fixed idea that SOME global disaster must be underway.
Second, though, even if we accept the proposition that the earth is
getting warmer, it is by no means clear that this would, on balance,
be a bad thing. The current climate is relatively warm compared to the
norm over the past several million years. We are in the midst of a
warm interlude between ice ages. For 90% of the last 100,000 of those
years, a mile-thick sheet of ice covered half of North America and
substantial portions of Europe and Asia. It seems doubtful that a
plunge into another ice age, even if it were a natural occurrence,
would be favorably perceived by most human beings.
After all, the warming of the planet after the last ice age seems to
have coincided with the rise of human civilization. Maybe warmer is
better. Growing seasons might be extended. Agricultural output might
increase. Our ability to overcome hunger and malnutrition could be
enhanced.
Third, even if we accept that global warming is taking place and is a
bad thing, it does not follow that wrenching changes are appropriate.
The much-maligned automobile, for example, is responsible for only a
small fraction of the greenhouse gases blamed for the current
reputedly unnatural warming trend.
Each year, there are about 150 billion tons of carbon dioxide
emissions from all sources. Only about 7 billion (or 5%) of this
tonnage is the result of human activity. The remaining 95% are from
natural, i.e. non-human, sources. Less than 3/10ths of a billion tons
of CO2 are emitted by autos in the U.S. So, if every car in America
were permanently parked, global carbon dioxide emissions would be
reduced by less than 2/10ths of 1%. That is, 99.8% of the emissions
would be untouched by this draconian strategy against American
mobility. Lesser impacts like "no-drive days" or mass transit
subsidies would have triflingly tiny impacts.
In general, then, an effort to prevent CO2 from getting into the
atmosphere by restricting mobility and retarding industry does not
appear very promising as a means of reducing the concentration of that
particular gas. The cost would be huge and the results minuscule.
A better approach might be to focus on strategies aimed at absorbing
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Plants use it as an input to their
growth. Consequently, a strategy that promotes plant growth would act
to convert carbon dioxide into vegetative biomass. Growing more trees,
harvesting mature wood and converting it into durable wooden products,
and replanting new trees would promote a sustainable cycle that would
remove CO2 from the air and reduce whatever contribution it is, in
fact, making to global warming.
But just as environmentalists of today crusade to decrease CO2
concentrations, so the same folks crusade to recycle paper, without
even considering that one goal may be counterproductive from the point
of view of the other. Putting discarded paper products into landfills
where they will be buried and prevented from oxidizing in itself
reduces carbon dioxide output. Further, it stimulates the use and
replanting of more virgin timber for the production of more paper,
which would contribute to the strategy of converting CO2 into biomass.
Another solution to the problem of greenhouse gas concentrations (and,
again, one which is not wrenching to American lifestyles and
industries) is the fertilization of the oceans with iron-based
compounds, which would extract CO2 from the air by stimulating plant
growth. After all, some of my readers probably put iron-based
fertilizers on the ground in front of their homes to get a lusher lawn
-- i.e., to stimulate plant growth. Spreading fertilizer in the oceans
could also substantially increase food supplies for aquatic animals
throughout the food chain -- possibly aiding in the preservation of
some endangered species. Neither the increased planting and harvesting
of trees for wood, nor the fertilization of the oceans, would require
the kinds of sacrifice being demanded by environmentalists like Vice
President Gore.
Neither would they require that we yield our valued freedom to live
our lives as we think best to some environmental czar or bureaucracy.
The fact that more practical, cost-effective, and less intrusive
options for dealing with the perceived threat of global warming are
ignored in favor of schemes that would place broad new powers in the
hands of government persuades me that saving the planet is, at best, a
secondary concern of those demanding that we sacrifice freedom and
prosperity. More likely, the continuing stream of environmental crises
are pretexts for the acquisition of more government power over how
people live their lives. As the violent history of the twentieth
century's governments has amply demonstrated, there are few things
worse for human and other life forms than expanded government power.
John Semmens is a member of the Arizona Advisory Council on
Environmental Education. Reprinted courtesy of The Pragmatist, Box
392, Forest Grove PA 18992.
EDITOR'S NOTE: How can Libertarianism solve America's problems? Each
issue, LP News will showcase how "Libertarian Solutions" -- or interim
steps in a libertarian direction -- can help improve our nation.
"Members and front organizations must continually embarrass, discredit and degrade our critics. When obstructionists become too irritating, label them as fascist, or Nazi or anti-Semitic .... The association will, after enough repetition, become "fact" in the public mind."
--Communist Party, Moscow Central Committee 1943 |
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| Parallax |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:29 pm |
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Guest
|
"Marvin Margoshes" <physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<vvrc1fck26nq40@corp.supernews.com>...
Quote: On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
I see TV adds now from a tobacco company, warning that smoking is addictive
and can kill. They are the one of the tobacco companies who kept dsaying,
"It hasn't been proven". Do you, perhaps, recognize yourself?
"Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6930a3c6.0401081006.4929a726@posting.google.com...
Libertarian Solutions: Non-governmental solutions to the "problem" of
global warming
By John Semmens
I recently had the opportunity to appear in a televised debate on the
state of the environment. My debate opponent announced that she had
just participated in a telephone conference call set up by the
Environmental Protection Agency. The main focus of this call was
global warming.
I was informed that the scientific consensus is that there is a
warming trend and that this is bad news. It was also asserted that the
cause of this undesirable warming is our love affair with the
automobile. It is this line of thinking that has inspired our Vice
President, Al Gore, to assert that we must endure a wrenching change
in our lifestyle by doing away with the internal combustion engine.
Before we give up our cherished mobility, wreck our economy, and hand
dictatorial powers to government so it can deal with this purported
crisis of global warming, let us consider the issue from a more
dispassionate perspective.
First, there is the question of whether there is, in fact, a warming
trend. While many climatologists believe so, others are not convinced
that this is the case, or that a human-caused increase in greenhouse
gases is responsible. The climate of the planet has always been
variable. The magnitude of these climatological changes has far
surpassed anything that might be the result of recent human activity.
This alone would seem to create a good deal of uncertainty about in
which direction the global temperatures might be headed and whether
anything that humans do has a significant part to play.
There are other reasons for uncertainty. In the 1970s, some of the
same people who are now demanding drastic action to prevent global
warming were demanding drastic action to prevent global cooling. They
seem to have a fixed idea that SOME global disaster must be underway.
Second, though, even if we accept the proposition that the earth is
getting warmer, it is by no means clear that this would, on balance,
be a bad thing. The current climate is relatively warm compared to the
norm over the past several million years. We are in the midst of a
warm interlude between ice ages. For 90% of the last 100,000 of those
years, a mile-thick sheet of ice covered half of North America and
substantial portions of Europe and Asia. It seems doubtful that a
plunge into another ice age, even if it were a natural occurrence,
would be favorably perceived by most human beings.
After all, the warming of the planet after the last ice age seems to
have coincided with the rise of human civilization. Maybe warmer is
better. Growing seasons might be extended. Agricultural output might
increase. Our ability to overcome hunger and malnutrition could be
enhanced.
Third, even if we accept that global warming is taking place and is a
bad thing, it does not follow that wrenching changes are appropriate.
The much-maligned automobile, for example, is responsible for only a
small fraction of the greenhouse gases blamed for the current
reputedly unnatural warming trend.
Each year, there are about 150 billion tons of carbon dioxide
emissions from all sources. Only about 7 billion (or 5%) of this
tonnage is the result of human activity. The remaining 95% are from
natural, i.e. non-human, sources. Less than 3/10ths of a billion tons
of CO2 are emitted by autos in the U.S. So, if every car in America
were permanently parked, global carbon dioxide emissions would be
reduced by less than 2/10ths of 1%. That is, 99.8% of the emissions
would be untouched by this draconian strategy against American
mobility. Lesser impacts like "no-drive days" or mass transit
subsidies would have triflingly tiny impacts.
In general, then, an effort to prevent CO2 from getting into the
atmosphere by restricting mobility and retarding industry does not
appear very promising as a means of reducing the concentration of that
particular gas. The cost would be huge and the results minuscule.
A better approach might be to focus on strategies aimed at absorbing
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Plants use it as an input to their
growth. Consequently, a strategy that promotes plant growth would act
to convert carbon dioxide into vegetative biomass. Growing more trees,
harvesting mature wood and converting it into durable wooden products,
and replanting new trees would promote a sustainable cycle that would
remove CO2 from the air and reduce whatever contribution it is, in
fact, making to global warming.
But just as environmentalists of today crusade to decrease CO2
concentrations, so the same folks crusade to recycle paper, without
even considering that one goal may be counterproductive from the point
of view of the other. Putting discarded paper products into landfills
where they will be buried and prevented from oxidizing in itself
reduces carbon dioxide output. Further, it stimulates the use and
replanting of more virgin timber for the production of more paper,
which would contribute to the strategy of converting CO2 into biomass.
Another solution to the problem of greenhouse gas concentrations (and,
again, one which is not wrenching to American lifestyles and
industries) is the fertilization of the oceans with iron-based
compounds, which would extract CO2 from the air by stimulating plant
growth. After all, some of my readers probably put iron-based
fertilizers on the ground in front of their homes to get a lusher lawn
-- i.e., to stimulate plant growth. Spreading fertilizer in the oceans
could also substantially increase food supplies for aquatic animals
throughout the food chain -- possibly aiding in the preservation of
some endangered species. Neither the increased planting and harvesting
of trees for wood, nor the fertilization of the oceans, would require
the kinds of sacrifice being demanded by environmentalists like Vice
President Gore.
Neither would they require that we yield our valued freedom to live
our lives as we think best to some environmental czar or bureaucracy.
The fact that more practical, cost-effective, and less intrusive
options for dealing with the perceived threat of global warming are
ignored in favor of schemes that would place broad new powers in the
hands of government persuades me that saving the planet is, at best, a
secondary concern of those demanding that we sacrifice freedom and
prosperity. More likely, the continuing stream of environmental crises
are pretexts for the acquisition of more government power over how
people live their lives. As the violent history of the twentieth
century's governments has amply demonstrated, there are few things
worse for human and other life forms than expanded government power.
John Semmens is a member of the Arizona Advisory Council on
Environmental Education. Reprinted courtesy of The Pragmatist, Box
392, Forest Grove PA 18992.
EDITOR'S NOTE: How can Libertarianism solve America's problems? Each
issue, LP News will showcase how "Libertarian Solutions" -- or interim
steps in a libertarian direction -- can help improve our nation.
IS this figure of 5% CO2 releases being anthropogenic accepted? If
so, advoccates of anthropegenic warming have some "splainin to do. |
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| Roger Coppock |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:22 pm |
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Guest
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Parallax wrote:
Quote:
IS this figure of 5% CO2 releases being anthropogenic accepted? If
so, advoccates of anthropegenic warming have some "splainin to do.
Please see:
http://www.radix.net/~bobg/faqs/scq.CO2rise.html
--
"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."
-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE
-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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| Roger Coppock |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:28 pm |
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Guest
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Marvin Margoshes wrote:
Quote:
On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
I see TV adds now from a tobacco company, warning that smoking is addictive
and can kill. They are the one of the tobacco companies who kept dsaying,
"It hasn't been proven". Do you, perhaps, recognize yourself?
Funny you should mention the Tobacco Lobby.
Many of the PR firms that the fossil fuel
industry has hired to blunt efforts to reduce
greenhouse gas global warming have a history
of working for the tobacco lobby. Today, the
Heartland Institute still works for both
clients.
--
"One who joyfully guards his mind
And fears his own confusion
Can not fall.
He has found his way to peace."
-- Buddha, in the "Pali Dhammapada,"
~5th century BCE
-.-. --.- Roger Coppock (rcoppock@adnc.com)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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| Sean Burke |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:46 pm |
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Guest
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Roger Coppock <rcoppock@adnc.com> writes:
Thanks for the informative link. However, the conclusion that
the increase in atmospheric CO2 is "anthropogenic" seems to be
founded on the assumption that only the burning of fossil fuels
can release CO2 that is free of carbon-14.
It seems to me, for example, that the carbon emitted in a volcanic
eruption would also be free of C14. Large quantities of methane
ice are found at the bottom of the ocean, and these probably contain
"old carbon" where the C14 has decayed. Could changes in ocean
currents cause this old carbon to be released?
-SEan |
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| DemRedMeatBrigade |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:47 pm |
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Guest
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"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:3FFDF4DE.6038BBF7@adnc.com...
Quote: Marvin Margoshes wrote:
On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the
consequences?
I see TV adds now from a tobacco company, warning that smoking is
addictive
and can kill. They are the one of the tobacco companies who kept
dsaying,
"It hasn't been proven". Do you, perhaps, recognize yourself?
Funny you should mention the Tobacco Lobby.
Many of the PR firms that the fossil fuel
industry has hired to blunt efforts to reduce
greenhouse gas global warming have a history
of working for the tobacco lobby. Today, the
Heartland Institute still works for both
clients.
Libertarians are meaningless losers. But I'm sure those losers MEAN well. |
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| Kenneth P. Turvey |
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:53 pm |
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Guest
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On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:22:51 -0800, Roger Coppock <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote:
I started reading through this and something struck me as quite
unlikely. The statement was:
Fossil fuels contain less 13C than air, because plants, which once
produced the precursors of the fossilized organic carbon compounds,
prefer 12C over 13C in photosynthesis (rather, they prefer CO2
which contains a 12C atom) [Butcher, p 86].
I am not a chemist, but I do have some knowledge of chemistry. The
only preference that a plant would have for 13C over 12C would be due
to its proximity. There would be more at sea level than three miles
up due to its mass. If we use ground level measurements you wouldn't
see any difference in the rates of 13C taken in by plants and that in
the air.
I suppose over the long term more 13C could be sequestered in the form
of fossil fuels, but that would take a long time and a lot of carbon
before any difference would be measurable.
I'm don't think I buy this. It calls the rest of the paper into
question. I may check the reference.
Can any chemists chime in?
Global warming is here, and it is quite probably man made, but I'm not
sure that the solution is going to be better than the problem. What I
would really like to see are good models of what the world will be
like after we burn all the fossil fuels. I find it unlikely that we
will be able to stop ourselves from using cheap energy sources unless
the consequences would be dire. And based on the costs in terms of
human lives and livelihoods, maybe we shouldn't unless the
consequences really are dire.
--
Kenneth P. Turvey <kt@squeakydolphin.com>
Artificial Intelligence Algorithms Wiki
http://ai.squeakydolphin.com |
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| michael price |
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:02 am |
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Guest
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"Marvin Margoshes" <physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<vvrc1fck26nq40@corp.supernews.com>...
Quote: On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of those consequences?
Quote:
I see TV adds now from a tobacco company, warning that smoking is addictive
and can kill. They are the one of the tobacco companies who kept dsaying,
"It hasn't been proven". Do you, perhaps, recognize yourself?
Err... no. The evidence wrt tabbacco is overwhelming and has been for
some decades. The evidence wrt global warming has been overwhelming for
much less time, if at all.
Quote:
"Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6930a3c6.0401081006.4929a726@posting.google.com...
Libertarian Solutions: Non-governmental solutions to the "problem" of
global warming
By John Semmens
I recently had the opportunity to appear in a televised debate on the
state of the environment. My debate opponent announced that she had
just participated in a telephone conference call set up by the
Environmental Protection Agency. The main focus of this call was
global warming.
I was informed that the scientific consensus is that there is a
warming trend and that this is bad news. It was also asserted that the
cause of this undesirable warming is our love affair with the
automobile. It is this line of thinking that has inspired our Vice
President, Al Gore, to assert that we must endure a wrenching change
in our lifestyle by doing away with the internal combustion engine.
Before we give up our cherished mobility, wreck our economy, and hand
dictatorial powers to government so it can deal with this purported
crisis of global warming, let us consider the issue from a more
dispassionate perspective.
First, there is the question of whether there is, in fact, a warming
trend. While many climatologists believe so, others are not convinced
that this is the case, or that a human-caused increase in greenhouse
gases is responsible. The climate of the planet has always been
variable. The magnitude of these climatological changes has far
surpassed anything that might be the result of recent human activity.
This alone would seem to create a good deal of uncertainty about in
which direction the global temperatures might be headed and whether
anything that humans do has a significant part to play.
There are other reasons for uncertainty. In the 1970s, some of the
same people who are now demanding drastic action to prevent global
warming were demanding drastic action to prevent global cooling. They
seem to have a fixed idea that SOME global disaster must be underway.
Second, though, even if we accept the proposition that the earth is
getting warmer, it is by no means clear that this would, on balance,
be a bad thing. The current climate is relatively warm compared to the
norm over the past several million years. We are in the midst of a
warm interlude between ice ages. For 90% of the last 100,000 of those
years, a mile-thick sheet of ice covered half of North America and
substantial portions of Europe and Asia. It seems doubtful that a
plunge into another ice age, even if it were a natural occurrence,
would be favorably perceived by most human beings.
After all, the warming of the planet after the last ice age seems to
have coincided with the rise of human civilization. Maybe warmer is
better. Growing seasons might be extended. Agricultural output might
increase. Our ability to overcome hunger and malnutrition could be
enhanced.
Third, even if we accept that global warming is taking place and is a
bad thing, it does not follow that wrenching changes are appropriate.
The much-maligned automobile, for example, is responsible for only a
small fraction of the greenhouse gases blamed for the current
reputedly unnatural warming trend.
Each year, there are about 150 billion tons of carbon dioxide
emissions from all sources. Only about 7 billion (or 5%) of this
tonnage is the result of human activity. The remaining 95% are from
natural, i.e. non-human, sources. Less than 3/10ths of a billion tons
of CO2 are emitted by autos in the U.S. So, if every car in America
were permanently parked, global carbon dioxide emissions would be
reduced by less than 2/10ths of 1%. That is, 99.8% of the emissions
would be untouched by this draconian strategy against American
mobility. Lesser impacts like "no-drive days" or mass transit
subsidies would have triflingly tiny impacts.
In general, then, an effort to prevent CO2 from getting into the
atmosphere by restricting mobility and retarding industry does not
appear very promising as a means of reducing the concentration of that
particular gas. The cost would be huge and the results minuscule.
A better approach might be to focus on strategies aimed at absorbing
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Plants use it as an input to their
growth. Consequently, a strategy that promotes plant growth would act
to convert carbon dioxide into vegetative biomass. Growing more trees,
harvesting mature wood and converting it into durable wooden products,
and replanting new trees would promote a sustainable cycle that would
remove CO2 from the air and reduce whatever contribution it is, in
fact, making to global warming.
But just as environmentalists of today crusade to decrease CO2
concentrations, so the same folks crusade to recycle paper, without
even considering that one goal may be counterproductive from the point
of view of the other. Putting discarded paper products into landfills
where they will be buried and prevented from oxidizing in itself
reduces carbon dioxide output. Further, it stimulates the use and
replanting of more virgin timber for the production of more paper,
which would contribute to the strategy of converting CO2 into biomass.
Another solution to the problem of greenhouse gas concentrations (and,
again, one which is not wrenching to American lifestyles and
industries) is the fertilization of the oceans with iron-based
compounds, which would extract CO2 from the air by stimulating plant
growth. After all, some of my readers probably put iron-based
fertilizers on the ground in front of their homes to get a lusher lawn
-- i.e., to stimulate plant growth. Spreading fertilizer in the oceans
could also substantially increase food supplies for aquatic animals
throughout the food chain -- possibly aiding in the preservation of
some endangered species. Neither the increased planting and harvesting
of trees for wood, nor the fertilization of the oceans, would require
the kinds of sacrifice being demanded by environmentalists like Vice
President Gore.
Neither would they require that we yield our valued freedom to live
our lives as we think best to some environmental czar or bureaucracy.
The fact that more practical, cost-effective, and less intrusive
options for dealing with the perceived threat of global warming are
ignored in favor of schemes that would place broad new powers in the
hands of government persuades me that saving the planet is, at best, a
secondary concern of those demanding that we sacrifice freedom and
prosperity. More likely, the continuing stream of environmental crises
are pretexts for the acquisition of more government power over how
people live their lives. As the violent history of the twentieth
century's governments has amply demonstrated, there are few things
worse for human and other life forms than expanded government power.
John Semmens is a member of the Arizona Advisory Council on
Environmental Education. Reprinted courtesy of The Pragmatist, Box
392, Forest Grove PA 18992.
EDITOR'S NOTE: How can Libertarianism solve America's problems? Each
issue, LP News will showcase how "Libertarian Solutions" -- or interim
steps in a libertarian direction -- can help improve our nation. |
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| Alastair McDonald |
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:29 am |
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Guest
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"michael price" <nini_pad@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5678a39d.0401082102.4ba38bd2@posting.google.com...
Quote: "Marvin Margoshes" <physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message
news:<vvrc1fck26nq40@corp.supernews.com>...
On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of those
consequences?
I see TV adds now from a tobacco company, warning that smoking is
addictive
and can kill. They are the one of the tobacco companies who kept dsaying,
"It hasn't been proven". Do you, perhaps, recognize yourself?
Err... no. The evidence wrt tabbacco is overwhelming and has been for
some decades. The evidence wrt global warming has been overwhelming for
much less time, if at all.
The evidence wrt AGW has become overwhelming since the quoted article
first was written. It is an old piece which has been around since the 90's.
Michael Ejercito does not give a link to the original, but the reference to
Al Gore is a dead giveaway even if you, unlike me, have not read that piece
or something very similar several times before.
Cheers, Alastair.
Quote:
"Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6930a3c6.0401081006.4929a726@posting.google.com...
Libertarian Solutions: Non-governmental solutions to the "problem" of
global warming
By John Semmens
I recently had the opportunity to appear in a televised debate on the
state of the environment. My debate opponent announced that she had
just participated in a telephone conference call set up by the
Environmental Protection Agency. The main focus of this call was
global warming.
I was informed that the scientific consensus is that there is a
warming trend and that this is bad news. It was also asserted that the
cause of this undesirable warming is our love affair with the
automobile. It is this line of thinking that has inspired our Vice
President, Al Gore, to assert that we must endure a wrenching change
in our lifestyle by doing away with the internal combustion engine.
Before we give up our cherished mobility, wreck our economy, and hand
dictatorial powers to government so it can deal with this purported
crisis of global warming, let us consider the issue from a more
dispassionate perspective.
First, there is the question of whether there is, in fact, a warming
trend. While many climatologists believe so, others are not convinced
that this is the case, or that a human-caused increase in greenhouse
gases is responsible. The climate of the planet has always been
variable. The magnitude of these climatological changes has far
surpassed anything that might be the result of recent human activity.
This alone would seem to create a good deal of uncertainty about in
which direction the global temperatures might be headed and whether
anything that humans do has a significant part to play.
There are other reasons for uncertainty. In the 1970s, some of the
same people who are now demanding drastic action to prevent global
warming were demanding drastic action to prevent global cooling. They
seem to have a fixed idea that SOME global disaster must be underway.
Second, though, even if we accept the proposition that the earth is
getting warmer, it is by no means clear that this would, on balance,
be a bad thing. The current climate is relatively warm compared to the
norm over the past several million years. We are in the midst of a
warm interlude between ice ages. For 90% of the last 100,000 of those
years, a mile-thick sheet of ice covered half of North America and
substantial portions of Europe and Asia. It seems doubtful that a
plunge into another ice age, even if it were a natural occurrence,
would be favorably perceived by most human beings.
After all, the warming of the planet after the last ice age seems to
have coincided with the rise of human civilization. Maybe warmer is
better. Growing seasons might be extended. Agricultural output might
increase. Our ability to overcome hunger and malnutrition could be
enhanced.
Third, even if we accept that global warming is taking place and is a
bad thing, it does not follow that wrenching changes are appropriate.
The much-maligned automobile, for example, is responsible for only a
small fraction of the greenhouse gases blamed for the current
reputedly unnatural warming trend.
Each year, there are about 150 billion tons of carbon dioxide
emissions from all sources. Only about 7 billion (or 5%) of this
tonnage is the result of human activity. The remaining 95% are from
natural, i.e. non-human, sources. Less than 3/10ths of a billion tons
of CO2 are emitted by autos in the U.S. So, if every car in America
were permanently parked, global carbon dioxide emissions would be
reduced by less than 2/10ths of 1%. That is, 99.8% of the emissions
would be untouched by this draconian strategy against American
mobility. Lesser impacts like "no-drive days" or mass transit
subsidies would have triflingly tiny impacts.
In general, then, an effort to prevent CO2 from getting into the
atmosphere by restricting mobility and retarding industry does not
appear very promising as a means of reducing the concentration of that
particular gas. The cost would be huge and the results minuscule.
A better approach might be to focus on strategies aimed at absorbing
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Plants use it as an input to their
growth. Consequently, a strategy that promotes plant growth would act
to convert carbon dioxide into vegetative biomass. Growing more trees,
harvesting mature wood and converting it into durable wooden products,
and replanting new trees would promote a sustainable cycle that would
remove CO2 from the air and reduce whatever contribution it is, in
fact, making to global warming.
But just as environmentalists of today crusade to decrease CO2
concentrations, so the same folks crusade to recycle paper, without
even considering that one goal may be counterproductive from the point
of view of the other. Putting discarded paper products into landfills
where they will be buried and prevented from oxidizing in itself
reduces carbon dioxide output. Further, it stimulates the use and
replanting of more virgin timber for the production of more paper,
which would contribute to the strategy of converting CO2 into biomass.
Another solution to the problem of greenhouse gas concentrations (and,
again, one which is not wrenching to American lifestyles and
industries) is the fertilization of the oceans with iron-based
compounds, which would extract CO2 from the air by stimulating plant
growth. After all, some of my readers probably put iron-based
fertilizers on the ground in front of their homes to get a lusher lawn
-- i.e., to stimulate plant growth. Spreading fertilizer in the oceans
could also substantially increase food supplies for aquatic animals
throughout the food chain -- possibly aiding in the preservation of
some endangered species. Neither the increased planting and harvesting
of trees for wood, nor the fertilization of the oceans, would require
the kinds of sacrifice being demanded by environmentalists like Vice
President Gore.
Neither would they require that we yield our valued freedom to live
our lives as we think best to some environmental czar or bureaucracy.
The fact that more practical, cost-effective, and less intrusive
options for dealing with the perceived threat of global warming are
ignored in favor of schemes that would place broad new powers in the
hands of government persuades me that saving the planet is, at best, a
secondary concern of those demanding that we sacrifice freedom and
prosperity. More likely, the continuing stream of environmental crises
are pretexts for the acquisition of more government power over how
people live their lives. As the violent history of the twentieth
century's governments has amply demonstrated, there are few things
worse for human and other life forms than expanded government power.
John Semmens is a member of the Arizona Advisory Council on
Environmental Education. Reprinted courtesy of The Pragmatist, Box
392, Forest Grove PA 18992.
EDITOR'S NOTE: How can Libertarianism solve America's problems? Each
issue, LP News will showcase how "Libertarian Solutions" -- or interim
steps in a libertarian direction -- can help improve our nation. |
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| Back to top |
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| Ronnie H |
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:38 am |
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Guest
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--
We need a solution that works whoever is wrong. I suggest 'Climate Stability
Bonds'; which would be redeemable for a fixed sum once the desired outcome,
Climate Stability, has been achieved and sustained. For more information
please see http://216.67.251.107/~social/ieakyototext.html .
Regards
Ronnie H
--
Social Policy Bonds:
Policy as if outcomes mattered
http://SocialGoals.com
Brain Death <jglick@valhalla.com> wrote > On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:31:56 -0500,
"Marvin Margoshes"
Quote: physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote:
On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
On the off chance that the global warming alarmists are wrong, who
makes up for the lost wealth and income due to reduced economic
growth? |
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| Michael Ejercito |
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:46 pm |
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Guest
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"Marvin Margoshes" <physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<vvrc1fck26nq40@corp.supernews.com>...
Quote: On the off chance that you are wrong, who takes care of the consequences?
We would.
Of course, if global warming were proven to be a threat (remember
that our ancestors with little more than sticks and stones were able
to adapt to global warming about ten thousand years ago), we would
have to identify the cause. Therer is no clear evidence that an
increase in carbon dioxide production is causing any climate change.
It would be a waste to dump tons of iron trichloride into the ocean if
the cause was something else.
Michael |
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| Michael Ejercito |
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:56 pm |
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Guest
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Sean Burke <foobar@mystery.org> wrote in message news:<x7r7yac5k3.fsf@bolo.xenadyne.com>...
Quote: Roger Coppock <rcoppock@adnc.com> writes:
Parallax wrote:
IS this figure of 5% CO2 releases being anthropogenic accepted? If
so, advoccates of anthropegenic warming have some "splainin to do.
Please see:
http://www.radix.net/~bobg/faqs/scq.CO2rise.html
Thanks for the informative link. However, the conclusion that
the increase in atmospheric CO2 is "anthropogenic" seems to be
founded on the assumption that only the burning of fossil fuels
can release CO2 that is free of carbon-14.
It seems to me, for example, that the carbon emitted in a volcanic
eruption would also be free of C14. Large quantities of methane
ice are found at the bottom of the ocean, and these probably contain
"old carbon" where the C14 has decayed. Could changes in ocean
currents cause this old carbon to be released?
-SEan
It could be.
I would need data on the total output of carbon dioxide from all
sources compared to the output of carbon dioxide from anthropogenic
burning of organic material.
Michael |
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