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Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:40 pm
 
On Sep 26, 10:13 am, "Jude Alexander" <Ca... at (no spam) swampville.use> wrote:
Quote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl... at (no spam) juno.com> wrote in message

news:08dfd926-d46e-4346-be6b-c29e48404547 at (no spam) x12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 26, 8:26 am, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

the bible claims -

IT states that the earth is BUILT on PILLARS and is Unmoving in the sky
and the rest of the universe revolves around the earth.

Your statement is completely false and ignorant. The Scriptures do NOT
state that the Earth is built on pillars, NOR that it is unmoving in
the sky, NOR that the rest of the universe revolves around the Earth.
You're referring to:

Proof it, if you see it is false for what he did say pillars were and
not what you want to make it and mock what ignorants you seem to
have. Then really since no one has been out side this universe one
can not say for sure what revolves around what, what is sure is the
Sun is seen in the day time and the Moon at night and it works every
day the same. Something is revolving and it does go around the
earth. The earth is not revolving around the moon or we would never
see the Sun and the other way around same thing. Calling such false
when you can not prove it could just be making yourself a liar.

Quote:

Job 9:6, "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars
thereof tremble".

Shaking the earth out of her "place" could refer to Earth's revolution
around the sun and does not imply the Earth is stationary.

Nice so the Sun is also the Moon if that be so, as one revolution only
shows the other side, and it happens every 24 hours and a few seconds
they tell us.

Quote:
And the word translated "pillars" means a column as STANDING and also
"stand", so it means that upon which the earth stands. And the word's
root form indicates it is used in a figurative as well as literal
sense. It is referring to gravity, the thing that holds the earth in
place and on which it 'stands'.

Linda, I'm sorry but that isn't true.  There are plenty of other text to
support that the bible writers thought the world was flat with 4 corners.
That the sky was a dome and God hung the stars for diving seasons, that hell
was below and heaven above.  They further believed that the sun revolved
around the earth sunset sunrise and that the earth was fixed and unmoving..

Why be sorry unless you made a mistake or are doing one here, now?
Well I can lay out the map of the world on a flat table and see the 4
corners, as would a person looking for another part of the earth to
travel to would do. No big deal if one looks at it that way and not
be limited to what you want it to be. As for the starts hung is
space, from this earth one can always look into the sky and guest what
the Stars are always the same and with out going into space the view
of a person here on earth it sure would look like something is holding
them there, as they do not run around or one has to try to find them.
The North Star so called is always in the same location to the
rotation of the earth. The earth may just be fixed in this area, as
the ones that fly in space always know where to look for it, when they
want to come back to earth, even like they did last week, six months
in Space and they came right back to the same old earth, no need to
look all over the place to find it. It seems people write books and
it sounds good, and anyone believes them. They can not see it as the
Bible says, then they do not think, it was written for common people
not college professors and such. As we learned in College the
newspapers and such are written at the 6 to 7th grade level so all
people can understand it. If one wants a science evaluation and
terminology only those train with graduate degrees in that area would
understand it. The bible was and is for All People at most any grade
level to comprehend it. I try to post at the seventh grade level and
have my grammar check inform me of what level I wrote in.

Raymond
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:54 pm
 
On Sep 26, 7:19 pm, singin4free <jffry... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 26, 11:29 am, ThomM <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

On Sep 26, 10:49 am, singin4free <jffry... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

When YOU can prove a god exists - get back to me

If I could prove that God exists I would use all the resources I have
to deliver the message to the world. But all I have is faith and the
Word of God. For many that is sufficient. Sorry I can't help you find
your way. I am not discouraged though. God doesn't need me or anyone
else to prove him. In fact, he often hides himself, but often reveals
himself to the most unlikely characters. I wish you success in your
journey through our short time on earth. It's not over till it's over.

More like if you could prove that God does not exist, as for God being
and does exist, like you pointed out, TV is a resources and Satellites
are all over the world showing that God doe exist but is doing the
same as Jesus did when He was here on earth. Miracles, healing,
answers to prayer, and so much more in every field of study that God
is, and God does do what God does. All your deny and such is
laughable, silly and blind, just because a person never seen a worm
does not mean they are all over the earth, one has to go where the
ground is and where the worm is to find them. Just because you do not
watch the TV that does prove God, it your doing, not God. God never
has hid himself. That is silly, be like saying there is no Queen in
England, as she never came at your calling, or never touch you to
prove she is alive and the Queen. Then you can laugh at people that
say there is a nation called England or China or any other place that
you have not been. Only proves your limitations are many and you do
not really want to be proven wrong, some call that Pride, and some
call it just sin. Sounds like You need God, and God never left, and
all one has to do is turn around and go back to where they turned from
God, and He is waiting, Jesus said Come unto me, not me go to you.
He did that, found you and you got lost, get back and learn he still
cares and is still waiting for you to return. I know it works as it
sure does for me. God is my best Friend and I love Him with all my
life, and trust Him always. It is great to be with God daily and to
know He is with me by the Spirit.


Raymond
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
 
singin4free...
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:33 pm
 
On Sep 27, 12:07 pm, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
Quote:
On 9/26/2010 8:19 PM, singin4free wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:29 am, ThomM<tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net>  wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:49 am, singin4free<jffry... at (no spam) gmail.com>  wrote:

When YOU can prove a god exists - get back to me

If I could prove that God exists I would use all the resources I have
to deliver the message to the world. But all I have is faith and the
Word of God

PROVE you have the word of a god - as YOU claim

YOU do not even have that one

THE BIBLE was written by HUMANS - no communication with a god can be
establsihed.

I have nothing further to say Thommadura. Consider me to have conceded
that I cannot prove anything to you. I sense how desperately you must
want someone to prove God to you. I have my proof, but I didn't get it
from a convincing argument. I got it by believing in the Word of God,
which was at first a simple act of prayer to a God that may or may not
have been there, to ask him to save me, which afterward grew into a
firm conviction that he is there, and that he always hears me. I hope
there will come along someone who can give you the proof you long for,
so that you will have a grain of faith the size of a mustard seed that
will grow into a mighty tree. I pray to my God, the Father, in the
Name of his only begotten Son my Lord Jesus Christ, that you will be
able to know Him. I pray He will reveal himself to you in a way that
you cannot doubt, and that you will know the wonder of his love and
forgiveness and eternal life. And yes for all who read this and do not
know Him I pray the same things.
 
Linda Lee...
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:53 pm
 
On Sep 26, 11:45 am, ThomM <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 26, 11:07 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl... at (no spam) juno.com> wrote:> On Sep 26, 8:26 am, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

the bible claims -

IT states that the earth is BUILT on PILLARS and is Unmoving in the sky
and the rest of the universe revolves around the earth.

Your statement is completely false and ignorant. The Scriptures do NOT
state that the Earth is built on pillars,

Yes it does

I Samuel 2 starting at verse 8:

    He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar
from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit
the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and
he hath set the world upon them.

The word there translated 'pillars' could refer to a couple of things,
the poles of the Earth or lava under the Earth. In fact, under
Antarctica is a pillar of flame from a volcano that goes deep into the
Earth. (The words translated "pillars" in Job 9:6 is from a different
Hebrew word.)

Pillars:
H4690
מצק / מצוּק
mâtsûq
BDB Definition:
1) molten support, pillar, column




Quote:

 NOR that it is unmoving in

the sky,

YES IT does - have YOU ever read the bible - Linda

I Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."
Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable..."
Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm..."
Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself
fixed it fast..."

That is your "evidence" that the Bible says the Earth doesn't revolve
or rotate? Lol!

The Earth IS immovable unless there is an earthquake. Go outside and
jump up and down and you'll see how immovable and firm the Earth is!

You are just confused by the Scriptures and apparently by the variable
interpretations the English language can describe as well.

Quote:

You're referring to:

Job 9:6, "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars
thereof tremble".

Sorry Linda - but it is inherently IGNORANT and false for YOU to
assume that I am only referring to ONE example in the bible

There are far more than just that one - as I have already noted

Since YOUR statements are NOT TRUE (I will assume it is ignorance of
the bible rather than a deliberate lie ) - I reject YOUR statements

And why shouldn't you? You reject many statements in your ignorance.
 
Linda Lee...
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:13 pm
 
On Sep 26, 11:29 am, ThomM <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
Quote:


THe problem with your claim is that you are using the images as
ancient goat herders and cave dwellers BELEIVED the earth to be - NOT
what it actually is.

Your problem is that you start with the premise of what you think the
scriptures must be saying.

....

Quote:
Answer this question

Can your god create a disease he cannot cure?

YES OR NO

Either way - you establish something your god cannot do - a limit on
almighty


You simply play word games; anything that can be created can be
destroyed or in the case of a disease, "cured".

....

Quote:

"He that sits in the heavens shall laugh and the Lord shall have them
in derision" (Psalm 2)

....
Jesus said "I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the
Father except by me".

A human may have written that one - but it is a meaningless statement

When He was alive

You've said he never lived. Make up your mind.

Quote:
- I was able to go to MY father - and I did not need
any spook to do so. And MY children and grandchildren can come to me
as well.

More word games.
 
Linda Lee...
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:17 pm
 
On Sep 26, 11:13 am, "Jude Alexander" <Ca... at (no spam) swampville.use> wrote:
Quote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl... at (no spam) juno.com> wrote in message

news:08dfd926-d46e-4346-be6b-c29e48404547 at (no spam) x12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 26, 8:26 am, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

the bible claims -

IT states that the earth is BUILT on PILLARS and is Unmoving in the sky
and the rest of the universe revolves around the earth.

Your statement is completely false and ignorant. The Scriptures do NOT
state that the Earth is built on pillars, NOR that it is unmoving in
the sky, NOR that the rest of the universe revolves around the Earth.
You're referring to:

Job 9:6, "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars
thereof tremble".

Shaking the earth out of her "place" could refer to Earth's revolution
around the sun and does not imply the Earth is stationary.

And the word translated "pillars" means a column as STANDING and also
"stand", so it means that upon which the earth stands. And the word's
root form indicates it is used in a figurative as well as literal
sense. It is referring to gravity, the thing that holds the earth in
place and on which it 'stands'.

Linda, I'm sorry but that isn't true.  There are plenty of other text to
support that the bible writers thought the world was flat with 4 corners.
That the sky was a dome and God hung the stars for diving seasons, that hell
was below and heaven above.  They further believed that the sun revolved
around the earth sunset sunrise and that the earth was fixed and unmoving..

You'll have to provide the verses before it can be discussed.
 
Linda Lee...
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:25 pm
 
On Sep 27, 11:17 pm, Sidney Lambe <sidneyla... at (no spam) somewhere.invalid>
wrote:
Quote:
On alt.religion.christian, Linda Lee <lindagirl... at (no spam) juno.com> wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:45=C2=A0am, ThomM <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

[delete]

I have a lot of sympathy for anyone trying to discern the nature
of reality with the Bible.

It's a fool's task. Hell, there are over 25,000 officially
recognized denominations of Christianity on the planet, and who
knows how many sects and cults.

Almost all of them think they are the only group who can
accurately interpret the Bible and almost all of their
interpretations are different. In some cases, so diverse that you
are really dealing with different religions.

I consider the Bible to be useful only for emergency toilet paper,
rolling papers, and starting fires.

And the same goes for Darwinian evolution textbooks.

So? And I consider magic bunk and doubt you've created anything by
only thinking about it, but I really like the old 'Bewitched' and 'I
Dream of Jeannie' TV shows.

Quote:

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 
Linda Lee...
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:11 pm
 
On Sep 27, 11:46 pm, Sidney Lambe <sidneyla... at (no spam) somewhere.invalid>
wrote:
Quote:
On alt.religion.christian, Linda Lee <lindagirl... at (no spam) juno.com
wrote:



On Sep 27, 11:17=A0pm, Sidney Lambe
sidneyla... at (no spam) somewhere.invalid> wrote:

On alt.religion.christian, Linda Lee <lindagirl... at (no spam) juno.com
wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:45=3DC2=3DA0am, ThomM
tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

[delete]

I have a lot of sympathy for anyone trying to discern the
nature of reality with the Bible.

It's a fool's task. Hell, there are over 25,000 officially
recognized denominations of Christianity on the planet, and
who knows how many sects and cults.

Almost all of them think they are the only group who can
accurately interpret the Bible and almost all of their
interpretations are different. In some cases, so diverse that
you are really dealing with different religions.

I consider the Bible to be useful only for emergency toilet
paper, rolling papers, and starting fires.

And the same goes for Darwinian evolution textbooks.

So? And I consider magic bunk and doubt you've created
anything by only thinking about it,

That isn't how it works.

but I really like the old 'Bewitched' and 'I Dream of Jeannie'
TV shows.

Me too. Barbare Eden was a babe. Made me dizzy thinking about
what I'd have her do if she called _me_ "master". Smile)

Although she called him master, Anthony didn't have any control over
Jeannie, and neither did Darren over Samantha.

....

Quote:

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com


In Jer. 33:3 God says, “Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew
thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.”

When God says, “Call unto me”, He means literally ‘to call me by my
name’. He does not mean simply to call aloud, but rather to ‘call Him
by His name’.

If you want to see some real supernatural stuff, begin to call upon
God in the name of the Son of God, Yahashua` the Messiah. If it's
sincere, and not just a test run to tempt God, you will get results
that will astonish you.
 
Sidney Lambe...
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:17 pm
 
On alt.religion.christian, Linda Lee <lindagirl444 at (no spam) juno.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 26, 11:45=C2=A0am, ThomM <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

[delete]

I have a lot of sympathy for anyone trying to discern the nature
of reality with the Bible.

It's a fool's task. Hell, there are over 25,000 officially
recognized denominations of Christianity on the planet, and who
knows how many sects and cults.

Almost all of them think they are the only group who can
accurately interpret the Bible and almost all of their
interpretations are different. In some cases, so diverse that you
are really dealing with different religions.

I consider the Bible to be useful only for emergency toilet paper,
rolling papers, and starting fires.

And the same goes for Darwinian evolution textbooks.

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
 
Sidney Lambe...
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:46 pm
 
On alt.religion.christian, Linda Lee <lindagirl444 at (no spam) juno.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On Sep 27, 11:17=A0pm, Sidney Lambe
sidneyla... at (no spam) somewhere.invalid> wrote:

On alt.religion.christian, Linda Lee <lindagirl... at (no spam) juno.com
wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:45=3DC2=3DA0am, ThomM
tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

[delete]

I have a lot of sympathy for anyone trying to discern the
nature of reality with the Bible.

It's a fool's task. Hell, there are over 25,000 officially
recognized denominations of Christianity on the planet, and
who knows how many sects and cults.

Almost all of them think they are the only group who can
accurately interpret the Bible and almost all of their
interpretations are different. In some cases, so diverse that
you are really dealing with different religions.

I consider the Bible to be useful only for emergency toilet
paper, rolling papers, and starting fires.

And the same goes for Darwinian evolution textbooks.

So? And I consider magic bunk and doubt you've created
anything by only thinking about it,

That isn't how it works.

Quote:
but I really like the old 'Bewitched' and 'I Dream of Jeannie'
TV shows.

Me too. Barbare Eden was a babe. Made me dizzy thinking about
what I'd have her do if she called _me_ "master". Smile)

Jesus didn't consider magick to be bunk. He demonstrated
very advanced magickal skills quite often.

And he kept trying to tell us that we were magickal beings
and that beliefs are spells.

For example:

Mark 9:23 "Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are
possible to him that believeth."

Mark 11:23 "For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say
unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the
sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that
those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have
whatsoever he saith."

Christians try to make us believe that he meant faith in him,
but that's not what he said. He just said faith/belief (they are
synonymous).


Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
 
Thommadura...
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:20 am
 
On 9/27/2010 8:33 PM, singin4free wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 27, 12:07 pm, Thommadura<tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
On 9/26/2010 8:19 PM, singin4free wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:29 am, ThomM<tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:49 am, singin4free<jffry... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

When YOU can prove a god exists - get back to me

If I could prove that God exists I would use all the resources I have
to deliver the message to the world. But all I have is faith and the
Word of God

PROVE you have the word of a god - as YOU claim

YOU do not even have that one

THE BIBLE was written by HUMANS - no communication with a god can be
establsihed.

I have nothing further to say Thommadura. Consider me to have conceded
that I cannot prove anything to you. I sense how desperately you must
want someone to prove God to you.

Sorry - I have NO interest in that - because I know that a god - as
defined by religion cannot exist

And YOUR belief is therefore false


Answer this question -

What is it YOUR almighty without limits and all knowing god can do today
- that he did not know about previously

I can do that everyday - so it is a power HUMANS have.
WHy is it your god CANNOT have that power?



I have my proof,

No - you have your delusion -
 
ThomM...
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:28 pm
 
On Sep 28, 5:50 pm, "Patrick" <barker... at (no spam) erinot.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Thommadura" <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote

Sorry - I have NO interest in that - because I know that a god - as
defined by religion cannot exist
And YOUR belief is therefore false
Answer this question -
What is it YOUR almighty without limits and all knowing god can do today -
that he did not know about previously
I can do that everyday - so it is a power HUMANS have.
WHy is it your god CANNOT have that power?

Why do you try to box my God into what you think
He is or should be?



My father is NOT doing that one nor would he.

As an agnostic - he would only define a god as CAN be PROVEN - which
leaves gods in the realm of fictional nonsense.

No one has any idea what a god is - because no one can even establish
one exists - in any provable manner


He is using the definition of the god of christianity as espoused by
DUKE - and that is in the Baltimore Catechism and the bible- that
claims the god to be ALMIGHTY without limits - as well as ALL
knowing. (Luke 1:37 For nothing is impossible with god) and from the
Catechism (15. What do we mean when we say that God is all-knowing?
When we say that God is all-knowing we mean that He knows all things,
past, present, and future,)

All he did was establish a situation where a god as defined in the
catechism cannot do something a human can do.

The problem with virtually all ancient religions is that the HUMANS
who made them up - failed to consider that their statements would be
QUESTIONED by the educated people of today. When actually looking at
those statements - we can see the contradictions - errors - and
impossibilities they have.
 
Patrick...
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:50 pm
 
"Thommadura" <tommadura at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote

Quote:
Sorry - I have NO interest in that - because I know that a god - as
defined by religion cannot exist
And YOUR belief is therefore false
Answer this question -
What is it YOUR almighty without limits and all knowing god can do today -
that he did not know about previously
I can do that everyday - so it is a power HUMANS have.
WHy is it your god CANNOT have that power?

Why do you try to box my God into what you think
He is or should be?
 
 
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