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| Religion Forum Index » Christian Methodist Forum » Cursing Harold Camping for allegorical interpretations... |
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| old man joe... |
 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:33 am |
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and since the Living God is the Author of His Word the Bible, the same is to curse God
Himself.
Camping is condemned by some as a false prophet for his conclusion that Judgement Day and
the Rapture will fall on May 21, 2011. along with this condemnation he's accused of using
an allegorical method to interpret the Scriptures which he uses to interpret the spiritual
meaning behind the words and parables throughout the Bible.
the God of the Bible obviously instructs the Apostle Paul that this is an acceptable
method to understand His Word as He examples in Gal. 4:24 where He says...
" This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants... " allegories in
the Bible are almost the same as parables... the student must dig deep into God's Word to
find the spiritual meaning which is otherwise not immediately apparent.
Peter's explanation of the end of the world is exampled by God's use of the Flood as an
explanation of that event as a similarity of the events of the final End of this world.
this is an allegory. an allegory is representative or emblematic of something else; it is
figurative of Bible truth not said directly in the allegory. it is a type... one figure
representing another as in Ro. 5:14.
Christ Himself explained that the ' sign ' of Jonah, being in the belly of the fish three
days, is exactly where and exactly how we can understand that God placed one event in His
Word to illustrate another... Christ gave this event as a sign that He would be in the
belly of the earth for three days.
again, the doctrine of the propitiation of Christ is allegorically illustrated in Jacob's
approach to his brother Esau in Gen. 33. in 1 Cor. 10:1-6 God explains by an allegory the
Israelites passing through the sea... the Bible is replete with allegories, types, signs,
parables and examples of one event explaining another.
these things hide spiritual truth from the tares, on purpose. ( Lk. 8:10 ) and just as
the co-redeemer's give themselves the boast of saying they chose Christ, which is
completely foreign to Holy Scripture ( Jn. 1:12,13 ) so too, they find fault with anyone
speaking of salvation by grace alone. they define grace as man doing something good
towards God so as to invoke Him to save... if one does not invoke, one is not saved.
using the co-redeemer's method of Bible interpretation they do not understand that
salvation is un-conditional... how then will they understand anything else in the Bible
since they are in the flesh ?
the Bible is a spiritual Book. itself explains how to interpret it. without the Spirit
of God indwelling the tares, the co-redeemer's will always find fault with the elect's
interpretation of God's Word. character attacks follow as they try to demonstrate
their superior abilities; after all, it is by their superior abilities they chose to save
themselves though Christ says to the contrary. Mt. 19:16-26
Camping is concluding from the Bible by means of God ordained methods of interpretation
that the elect will know the time of the End, that it is soon, and the elect are overjoyed
while the tares find fault. these are the " scoffer's " who say.. " Where is the promise
of His coming ? " |
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| Pastor Dave... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:56 am |
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Guest
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On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:33:37 -0400, old man joe <never at (no spam) yahoo.com>
spake thusly:
I do not expect a reasonable, logical answer from you,
given your past history of attacking me whenever you
can't refute what I have said, no matter how politely
I say it to you, so I will just be direct and a bit harsh,
to make the point, since what you do sometimes, is
simply not honest (although most times it is) and even
if you do post a lot of messages that are true, when it
comes to this stuff, you simply don't care about honesty,
nor about integrity!
Quote: and since the Living God is the Author of His Word
the Bible, the same is to curse God Himself.
While I disagree with Camping and also think him
a false prophet, you're stretching the truth and
your claim requires proof. And not proof that HC
is wrong, but that he is "cursing God", which is
quite a serious accusation on your part!
Quote: Camping is condemned by some as a false prophet
for his conclusion that Judgement Day and the
Rapture will fall on May 21, 2011.
First of all, what "rapture"? You mean what you
interpret as such and claim is such.
And no, quoting the passage, as if a pastor wouldn't
know which one you're going to quote and as if you
have somehow taught me something, is not proof.
Quoting passages does not mean that you are not
interpreting what you quote.
And so is every other Futurist that that claims dates,
or even just claims that; "We are the generation
that is in the last days!", a "false prophet" and it is
just as arrogant and dishonest a thing to do as him!
You are a Futurist also, who fails to believe what God
said in His word and who adds words to what Jesus
and the Apostles said, to make it all about you today!
And you twist and try to make the words they wrote
mean the opposite of what they actually say, which
you are forced to admit that they do when they are
shown to you and you then try to take one verse of
Scripture and twist it into the claim that there is some
kind of lingo that means "the opposite of what it says,
special type of God time, because it's all about 21st
century Gentiles and if you don't believe that, then
you don't believe the Bible", which is the lie you tell,
because you figure you can get away with it and
because you think that if other Futurists pat you
on the back for saying it, that means it's true,
when you already know that it doesn't, but since
you have zero integrity, you don't care and you
do it anyway, liar!
And then you want to sit there and talk about
honestly and integrity?! You're no better than
Camping is!
Now go ahead and add some words, you liar!
Tell me how "Jesus said that nobody knows when."
....when you're claiming (and you know that you do)
that it's all about us today without any proof at all
and are doing so by twisting His words into what
He simply did not say!
And don't bother to be honest enough to tell us that
that's not what Jesus said! You added those words!
Jesus never said, "No one knows when"!
Jesus said that "no one knows THE DAY, nor THE HOUR".
That is exactly what Jesus said!!!
And ALL that means, is what it says! No one knew THE DAY,
nor the HOUR WITHIN that day!
But Jesus did say which generation and He said it would
be that same one (Matt 24:34)!
Now go ahead AND ADD SOME MORE WORDS TO THAT
and claim that He said...
"It's the generation that's alive at the time that these
things happen."
....when He did NOT say that at all and you KNOW that!
Or tell us what "Jesus really meant....", as if you can jump
back in time, read His mind and tell us what He "really meant",
because you obviously know more than He did about it and
gee, after all, He couldn't say what He "really wanted" to say,
but you know and can tell all of us, right?!
You Futurists are all liars! And that is a fact, since even when
your game of dodge ball is pointed out, you still try to defend
your deceptions, liar!
So before you criticize anyone else, maybe you should take
a look in the mirror, huh pal?!
And no, you attacking me won't change these facts! I do not
lie about what Jesus said! You do and we both know that!
And no, that does not mean that you demand to know when
this or that happened yet! Claiming something didn't happen
yet only proves that you interpret it differently than others do
and that you are avoiding the issue!
1) You are only giving YOUR INTERPRETATION of the "how"!
2) You are dodging the issue!
3) You do it because you know you can't dispute what I just said
and aren't honest enough to admit that!
So be careful before you criticize others and make sure that
your own house is set up right! I can criticize this man,
because I do not do the same thing he does, like you do, son!
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
"Why is it that our memory is good enough to retain the
least triviality that happens to us, and yet not good
enough to recollect how often we have told it to the
same person?" - Francois de La Rochefoucauld |
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| Pastor Dave... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:57 am |
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Guest
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On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:33:37 -0400, old man joe <never at (no spam) yahoo.com>
spake thusly:
I do not expect a reasonable, logical answer from you,
given your past history of attacking me whenever you
can't refute what I have said, no matter how politely
I say it to you, so I will just be direct and a bit harsh,
to make the point, since what you do sometimes, is
simply not honest (although most times it is) and even
if you do post a lot of messages that are true, when it
comes to this stuff, you simply don't care about honesty,
nor about integrity!
Quote: and since the Living God is the Author of His Word
the Bible, the same is to curse God Himself.
While I disagree with Camping and also think him
a false prophet, you're stretching the truth and
your claim requires proof. And not proof that HC
is wrong, but that he is "cursing God", which is
quite a serious accusation on your part!
Quote: Camping is condemned by some as a false prophet
for his conclusion that Judgement Day and the
Rapture will fall on May 21, 2011.
First of all, what "rapture"? You mean what you
interpret as such and claim is such.
And no, quoting the passage, as if a pastor wouldn't
know which one you're going to quote and as if you
have somehow taught me something, is not proof.
Quoting passages does not mean that you are not
interpreting what you quote.
And so is every other Futurist that that claims dates,
or even just claims that; "We are the generation
that is in the last days!", a "false prophet" and it is
just as arrogant and dishonest a thing to do as him!
You are a Futurist also, who fails to believe what God
said in His word and who adds words to what Jesus
and the Apostles said, to make it all about you today!
And you twist and try to make the words they wrote
mean the opposite of what they actually say, which
you are forced to admit that they do when they are
shown to you and you then try to take one verse of
Scripture and twist it into the claim that there is some
kind of lingo that means "the opposite of what it says,
special type of God time, because it's all about 21st
century Gentiles and if you don't believe that, then
you don't believe the Bible", which is the lie you tell,
because you figure you can get away with it and
because you think that if other Futurists pat you
on the back for saying it, that means it's true,
when you already know that it doesn't, but since
you have zero integrity, you don't care and you
do it anyway, liar!
And then you want to sit there and talk about
honestly and integrity?! You're no better than
Camping is!
Now go ahead and add some words, you liar!
Tell me how "Jesus said that nobody knows when."
....when you're claiming (and you know that you do)
that it's all about us today without any proof at all
and are doing so by twisting His words into what
He simply did not say!
And don't bother to be honest enough to tell us that
that's not what Jesus said! You added those words!
Jesus never said, "No one knows when"!
Jesus said that "no one knows THE DAY, nor THE HOUR".
That is exactly what Jesus said!!!
And ALL that means, is what it says! No one knew THE DAY,
nor the HOUR WITHIN that day!
But Jesus did say which generation and He said it would
be that same one (Matt 24:34)!
Now go ahead AND ADD SOME MORE WORDS TO THAT
and claim that He said...
"It's the generation that's alive at the time that these
things happen."
....when He did NOT say that at all and you KNOW that!
Or tell us what "Jesus really meant....", as if you can jump
back in time, read His mind and tell us what He "really meant",
because you obviously know more than He did about it and
gee, after all, He couldn't say what He "really wanted" to say,
but you know and can tell all of us, right?!
You Futurists are all liars! And that is a fact, since even when
your game of dodge ball is pointed out, you still try to defend
your deceptions, liar!
So before you criticize anyone else, maybe you should take
a look in the mirror, huh pal?!
And no, you attacking me won't change these facts! I do not
lie about what Jesus said! You do and we both know that!
And no, that does not mean that you demand to know when
this or that happened yet! Claiming something didn't happen
yet only proves that you interpret it differently than others do
and that you are avoiding the issue!
1) You are only giving YOUR INTERPRETATION of the "how"!
2) You are dodging the issue!
3) You do it because you know you can't dispute what I just said
and aren't honest enough to admit that!
So be careful before you criticize others and make sure that
your own house is set up right! I can criticize this man,
because I do not do the same thing he does, like you do, son!
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
The Last Days were in the first century:
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath *IN THESE LAST DAYS* spoken unto us by
His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds; |
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| I... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:26 pm |
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Guest
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"old man joe" <never at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: Camping is condemned by some as a false prophet for his conclusion that
Judgement Day and
the Rapture will fall on May 21, 2011.
Celebrate "False Prophet Harold Camping Day" on May 22, 2011
--
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I
have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other
gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall
we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in
the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the
thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it
presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Deut18:20 - 22: |
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