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| Religion Forum Index » Christian Adventist Forum » Part 1. Good news for all unbeliever's... there is... |
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| old man joe... |
 Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:07 pm |
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the idea that human being's are born immortal is an idea coming from ancient Greek
philosophical thought which some folks carried into their interpretation of the Bible.
we start by recognizing that the unbeliever is already dead in his soul. Eph. 2:1; 4:18;
Col. 2:13. this is very important... not keeping this at the forefront in our minds will
lead to Platonism... the Greek philosophical idea that man is immortal from which an
eternal burning hell is derived.
the doctrine of the Bible concerning eternal damnation is simply this... " the wages of
sin is death... " ( Ro. 6:23 ) death is defined in this Bible word as " completed and
absolute separation from God for all eternity. " it does not define continuous,
conscience torment forever in a place called " hell " because that idea comes from secular
philosopher's, not God. it is eternal in that there is no second hope to become saved; it
is punishment because the wages of sin is death.
in fact, even in the passage where God says " the wages of sin is death, " He goes on in
that same passage contrasting death against eternal life... " but the gift of God is
eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. " there is not a passage in the Bible which
directs us to understand that the " wages of sin is eternal life in a place of torment. "
man is a composite being with a mortal body and a mortal soul. he became subject to death
of both the body and soul when he ate of the fruit God told him not to eat. Holy
Scripture directly addresses the mortality of man by saying... " Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish. " Ps. 146:3,4 NASB. the KJV render's... " Put not
your trust in princes, nor in the son of man... " which refers to "corruptible seed " ( 1
Pet. 1:23 )
eternal life is " the gift of God " which, unless one becomes " alive in Christ " he will
simply perish... when he physically dies man is dead forever, never to be heard from
again. this is why the unsaved are compared to " unreasoning animals " ( 2 Pet. 2:12;
Jude 1:10 ) set to be " destroyed, " and not tormented forever. animals are ' lawless '
and the wicked are compared to them as having no Law of God written in their hearts so as
to obey God. man and beast perish alike. Ecc. 3:19
man is furthermore stated to be " dead in trespasses and sins " ( Eph. 2:1 ) all the while
he is physically alive. man is " dead " spiritually. he is spiritually dead as far as
his relationship to God is concerned and to the Life He provides in Christ. the
philosopher's are interpreting this verse to say that spiritually dead men have spiritual
life so they can be tormented forever in hell. the same is to say that God created man
immortal so to torment him forever in hell. man lost immortality in the Garden and became
spiritually dead.
it is wholly without Biblical substance to think that unregerate man is spiritually alive.
" the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. " ( Jn.5:21 )... which clearly says that the
unbeliever does not have life in his soul existance unless and until it is given him by
Christ.
the wages of sin is death... death is the cessation of physical existence for the unsaved,
he is already dead in his soul when he is born since he is found in Adam, only the
regenerate believer's are given immortality by the Living God... " as many as have been
appointed to eternal life, believed and he who believes has eternal life. " Acts13:48 and
Jn. 6:47. " he who does not obey the Son shall not see life... " Jn. 3:36
when the Word of God, the Bible, speaks of the " eternal destruction " of the wicked, God
is careful to define exactly what " eternal destruction " means... " These will pay the
penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of
His power... " He goes on to say exactly when this penalty as a wage for sin will
occur... " when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day... "
( 2 Thes. 1:9,10 )
" eternal destruction " means to be " away from the presence of the Lord and from the
glory of His power. " that's what death is; cessation of existence forever away from the
presence of the Lord. that's what the word " perish " means as in Jn. 3:16. as long as
there is hope for life eternal in Christ man has not " perished " though he is " dead in
trespasses and sins... "
eternal torment is inconsistent with the goodness and mercy of God. a little baby dying
at birth is to spend eternal torment in hell fire ? the Bible teaches no such thing. it
teaches that death is the wages of sin and that death is " the penalty away from the
presence of the Lord, " forever... no chance of a second chance.
when Adam ate the ' forbidden fruit ' he " died. " he did not physically die at the
moment he ate it but died spiritually, which is to say he was cast away spiritually " from
the presence of the Lord. " and so it is with everyone found in Adam except the Lord Jesus
Christ gives him life by the Living God. the believer's fate, as far as physical
existence is concerned, is the same as the unbeliever's fate. ( Ecc. 2;14,15 ) " all go to
one place, " ( Ecc. 6:3-6 ) and that ' one place ' can only be the grave where nothing of
this life nor the Living God is known to the unsaved since the wages of sin is death. Ps.
6:5
salvation is being given life eternal and non-salvation is not being given life eternal.
the being ceases to exist just as the body of Jesus Christ ceased to exist for the 3 days
His body was dead in the tomb. that Christ is God Eternal His Life never ceased to exist
and so too, His elect never cease to exist because He has given them of His Life... " to
be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. " no such words are directed
towards the unbeliever.
the wicked are " silent in the grave. " ( Ps. 31:17 ) they are " remembered no more "
by the Living God and are " cut off from Thy hand. " ( Ps. 88:5 ) " Thy hand " in this
verse means " power. " the wicked are " cut off " from the power of God to save them from
death once they are dead in the grave, just as they are cut off from His power all the
while they are physically alive... they are those having " no hope " as contrasted against
the elect who have " hope " in that Christ will resurrect them from among the dead at His
Coming.
while there are plenty of context's in the Bible defining exactly what " everlasting
punishment " is, as we see this term in Mt. 25:46, the meaning of " everlasting
punishment " is conditioned by everything else the Bible has to say about it. one should
not go off on a tangent supposing God is speaking there in this one verse all there is to
find in His Word concerning " everlasting punishment " by isolating this verse from the
rest of Holy Scripture...
the word " punishment " means ' execution of a sentence; vengeance; penalty ' and is
incorrectly translated " torment " in 1 Jn. 4:18 in the KJV except that the reader
understand the word in the context of the whole Bible. " the soul that sins it shall
die " ( Ez. 18:4 ) not live forever in conscience torment along with tiny babies dying at
birth who have not been given life eternal in Christ. the souls of the unbelieving dead
dwell in silence. ( Ps. 94:17 )
more verses dealing with the mortality of the entire man declaring man is paid the wage of
death for his sins and is heard from no more: Gen. 3:19; Job.4:17; 7:8-10; 14:21;
Ecc. 1:11; 3:18-21; 9:5,6; Ps.49:12,20; Isa. 26:14; 63:16; Ro. 6;12; 8:11; 1 Cor.
15:54; 2 Cor. 4:11
lastly, Deut. 25:1-3 provides more understanding of penalty verses sin. it is not in the
revealed character of God to punish offender's beyond the magnitude of their sins. a
brand new baby that is found in Adam and who dies at birth is incomprehensible to the
regenerate human mind that it will be tormented for all eternity by the very God who
describes Himself as " love, merciful and compassionate. " |
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| OBVES at (no spam) aol.com... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:28 am |
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On Oct 21, 6:07�pm, old man joe <ne... at (no spam) yahoo.com>
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And note this one doctrine can help us to call many christian
denominations false ! Most christians are eliminated by this one
doctrine correctly understood. |
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| ¨¨¨SAba*GrAcile¨¨¨¨... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:41 pm |
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<OBVES at (no spam) aol.com> skrev i melding
news:573cbf02-f78f-4725-bebe-2ff7d6e67ca9 at (no spam) r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 21, 6:07?pm, old man joe <ne... at (no spam) yahoo.com>
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And note this one doctrine can help us to call many christian
denominations false ! Most christians are eliminated by this one
doctrine correctly understood.
-Good that there's some truth to be found but cults
that forward a complete loyalty demand for their particular
brand of doctrines are not the true christians of today.
What's the point of knowing a truth (like there is no hell)
if that brand of christians have no internal care or love?
THEN they're excluded by the Written word as true
Christians. Read it.
S |
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