Land and Sea and Sky

The various tribes which many think of as “Celtic” were said to swear
these three things.

On Sep 2, 8:55 pm, Noinden <noin... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Land and Sea and Sky

The various tribes which many think of as “Celtic” were said to swear
these three things. It’s sometimes said the infamous brag by the
Celtic Chieftain  to Alexander the great of “We only fear that the Sky
will fall on us” (Much panned in Asterix) is a comment that they only
feared the retribution of their Gods.

But what was Land and Sea and Sky?

Many things.

Land was where we are now. The Earthly realm, but it was also the
otherworld, just not the land you stand in now. We share it with the
spirits of the land, as well as more … visible creatures.

Sea was the “waters of time” , here our ancestors can be contacted.

Sky. The Celestial realm. The “Gods” might be found here, though the
term “Deity” and “God” are not what an Abrahamic might like to make
them out to be.

There is a forth component, fire. Fire links it all. When Fire and
water meet, we get Mist, and we all know how the Celts felt about
mists ;)

Some folk will try to take a large mallet and ram these into the
classical 4 elements. However they are literally taking a sphere and
trying to ram it where cube should be put.

So by land and sea and sky I so swear…..

You are comparing apples with oranges, electrons and quarks.

There are many ways of explaining the universe depending on the
'magnification' through which you are observing it. Celts used both
the triskel and the four-armed Celtic cross to explain their world.
They may have used many 'Gods' to explain the various functions of the
world but they collated all those under a single Goddess. She and the
Sky God were the Two but they also believed that these in turn were
only emanations from the One. Anyone who experiences the Universe
directly through experience will tell you it all reduces to One, be
they Hindu, Buddhist or philosophical 'Abramahics'.

On Sep 4, 7:39 am, Noinden <noin... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 3, 11:01 pm, Wyvren <baron_samh... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, I do happen to have a copy of Mr. Ellis' book, and looking up
the citation that you provided, I see that it makes mention of only a
sparse couple of examples of this triplicity of earth, sea and sky.
The main one occuring, not in mythological literature, but as part of
a legal contract in the form of a vow made well into the Christian
period, which mirrors a declaration made by Conchobhar Mac Nessa in
the Ulster Cycle. Hardly the fodder I would expect, seeing that Celtic
Recons have so latched onto these three elements as to base their
contention that the pagan Irish cosmology revolved around them solely,
excluding fire and spirit as the fourth and fifth elements. Of course
they would have us believe that Druids were historically little more
than animistic shamans, rather that scholarly magician-priests
familiar with Pythagorian theory.

Your problem is that you're trying to make "Celt" into a race rather than
the cultural/linguistic grouping it in fact is and so you have to cherry
pick the data for what bits can be made to support your theory and toss
everything else.  It doesn't work that way and anyone who's not mentally ill
or has an extremist agenda to support knows that.

Face it, dude, you're already relegated to the same exploiter fraud bucket
occupied by the likes of Doug Monroe, Edain McCoy and Kisma Stepanich.  You
should have tried this trick ten years ago when the internet pagan community
was a lot more gullible and far less well-educated than it is today.

On Sep 9, 2:54 pm, "Dana" <spambuc... at (no spam) euro-celts.dot.com> wrote:



Your problem is that you're trying to make "Celt" into a race rather than
the cultural/linguistic grouping it in fact is and so you have to cherry
pick the data for what bits can be made to support your theory and toss
everything else. It doesn't work that way and anyone who's not mentally ill
or has an extremist agenda to support knows that.

Face it, dude, you're already relegated to the same exploiter fraud bucket
occupied by the likes of Doug Monroe, Edain McCoy and Kisma Stepanich. You
should have tried this trick ten years ago when the internet pagan community
was a lot more gullible and far less well-educated than it is today.

Or perhaps the late 19th and early 20th century when he could have
been lauded with the likes of Ignatius D.y and good 'ol Iolo
Morganwyg. Man, what a trio they would have made! The Marx Brothers
wouldn't have compared!

On Sep 11, 12:52 am, Kent <kent... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:



On Sep 9, 2:54 pm, "Dana" <spambuc... at (no spam) euro-celts.dot.com> wrote:

Your problem is that you're trying to make "Celt" into a race rather than
the cultural/linguistic grouping it in fact is and so you have to cherry
pick the data for what bits can be made to support your theory and toss
everything else.  It doesn't work that way and anyone who's not mentally ill
or has an extremist agenda to support knows that.

Face it, dude, you're already relegated to the same exploiter fraud bucket
occupied by the likes of Doug Monroe, Edain McCoy and Kisma Stepanich..  You
should have tried this trick ten years ago when the internet pagan community
was a lot more gullible and far less well-educated than it is today.

Or perhaps the late 19th and early 20th century when he could have
been lauded with the likes of Ignatius D.y and good 'ol Iolo
Morganwyg. Man, what a trio they would have made! The Marx Brothers
wouldn't have compared!

 As Archdruid, I get a lot of those books free from publishers as
promotions for my recommendations. I always reply that I will comment
when I've read the book -
And, indeed I may read them one day

But, no, I won't be reading Monroe, McGoy, Stepanich, though I have
their books here, I simply don't get the time.
Maybe Noinden will taste the books for me, that way first mistake and
the book is binned. .

Honestly it's such an effort to read all that stuff these days, now
why doesn't Monroe write about himself rather than what he thinks is
Druidism, I think that would be far more interesting, people around
the fringes of Druidism writing about themselves ...I find these
people interesting, but not their Druidry .

OBOD Books are just as bad,  why does Philip bother trying to write
about ' Druidry' , why doesn't he just write about anything else,
literary essays perhaps, as he is a really stylish writer : Philip
Carr-Gomm actually manages to write much about nothing, but always
with style !

Now here's what I plan to do, to write about Druidry without
mentioning the words 'Druid', 'Druidry' or 'Druidism' even once , with
no mention of Christianity or Religion or Politics either, and
certainly no mention of gods and goddesses, I plan to do that through
the winter. No God, Gods, Goddesses etc either, no rituals, and above
all, no speculation. But with style !

Cheers,
Michael.

On Sep 11, 2:24 am, An Coibhi Drui <photographerofkilke... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:



On Sep 11, 12:52 am, Kent <kent... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 9, 2:54 pm, "Dana" <spambuc... at (no spam) euro-celts.dot.com> wrote:

Your problem is that you're trying to make "Celt" into a race rather than
the cultural/linguistic grouping it in fact is and so you have to cherry
pick the data for what bits can be made to support your theory and toss
everything else.  It doesn't work that way and anyone who's not mentally ill
or has an extremist agenda to support knows that.

Face it, dude, you're already relegated to the same exploiter fraud bucket
occupied by the likes of Doug Monroe, Edain McCoy and Kisma Stepanich.  You
should have tried this trick ten years ago when the internet pagan community
was a lot more gullible and far less well-educated than it is today..

Or perhaps the late 19th and early 20th century when he could have
been lauded with the likes of Ignatius D.y and good 'ol Iolo
Morganwyg. Man, what a trio they would have made! The Marx Brothers
wouldn't have compared!

 As Archdruid, I get a lot of those books free from publishers as
promotions for my recommendations. I always reply that I will comment
when I've read the book -
And, indeed I may read them one day

But, no, I won't be reading Monroe, McGoy, Stepanich, though I have
their books here, I simply don't get the time.
Maybe Noinden will taste the books for me, that way first mistake and
the book is binned. .

Honestly it's such an effort to read all that stuff these days, now
why doesn't Monroe write about himself rather than what he thinks is
Druidism, I think that would be far more interesting, people around
the fringes of Druidism writing about themselves ...I find these
people interesting, but not their Druidry .

OBOD Books are just as bad,  why does Philip bother trying to write
about ' Druidry' , why doesn't he just write about anything else,
literary essays perhaps, as he is a really stylish writer : Philip
Carr-Gomm actually manages to write much about nothing, but always
with style !

Now here's what I plan to do, to write about Druidry without
mentioning the words 'Druid', 'Druidry' or 'Druidism' even once , with
no mention of Christianity or Religion or Politics either, and
certainly no mention of gods and goddesses, I plan to do that through
the winter. No God, Gods, Goddesses etc either, no rituals, and above
all, no speculation. But with style !

Cheers,
Michael.

Jacqueline Memory Paterson  G,O,D, wrote a lovely book, called Tree
wisdom.
 I remember her commenting that there were actually only a few
references to trees in it!
Its a shame it was printed without the pictures painted to accompany
it (Too expensive) as they are beautiful and tell their own story.
Jackie left a great void when she passed on, a great lady.
It is possible to get if you dig around.
Tree Wisdom: The definitive guidebook to the myth, folklore and
healing power of Trees.
Being a druid as she was, she also knew that writing about "Druids"
was not the way to go.

On Sep 11, 2:24 am, An Coibhi Drui <photographerofkilke... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 11, 12:52 am, Kent <kent... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:



On Sep 9, 2:54 pm, "Dana" <spambuc... at (no spam) euro-celts.dot.com> wrote:

Your problem is that you're trying to make "Celt" into a race rather than
the cultural/linguistic grouping it in fact is and so you have to cherry
pick the data for what bits can be made to support your theory and toss
everything else.  It doesn't work that way and anyone who's not mentally ill
or has an extremist agenda to support knows that.

Face it, dude, you're already relegated to the same exploiter fraud bucket
occupied by the likes of Doug Monroe, Edain McCoy and Kisma Stepanich.  You
should have tried this trick ten years ago when the internet pagan community
was a lot more gullible and far less well-educated than it is today.

Or perhaps the late 19th and early 20th century when he could have
been lauded with the likes of Ignatius D.y and good 'ol Iolo
Morganwyg. Man, what a trio they would have made! The Marx Brothers
wouldn't have compared!

  As Archdruid, I get a lot of those books free from publishers as
promotions for my recommendations. I always reply that I will comment
when I've read the book -
And, indeed I may read them one day

But, no, I won't be reading Monroe, McGoy, Stepanich, though I have
their books here, I simply don't get the time.
Maybe Noinden will taste the books for me, that way first mistake and
the book is binned. .

Honestly it's such an effort to read all that stuff these days, now
why doesn't Monroe write about himself rather than what he thinks is
Druidism, I think that would be far more interesting, people around
the fringes of Druidism writing about themselves ...I find these
people interesting, but not their Druidry .

OBOD Books are just as bad,  why does Philip bother trying to write
about ' Druidry' , why doesn't he just write about anything else,
literary essays perhaps, as he is a really stylish writer : Philip
Carr-Gomm actually manages to write much about nothing, but always
with style !

Now here's what I plan to do, to write about Druidry without
mentioning the words 'Druid', 'Druidry' or 'Druidism' even once , with
no mention of Christianity or Religion or Politics either, and
certainly no mention of gods and goddesses, I plan to do that through
the winter. No God, Gods, Goddesses etc either, no rituals, and above
all, no speculation. But with style !

Cheers,
Michael.

Jacqueline Memory Paterson  G,O,D, wrote a lovely book, called Tree
wisdom.
 I remember her commenting that there were actually only a few
references to trees in it!
Its a shame it was printed without the pictures painted to accompany
it (Too expensive) as they are beautiful and tell their own story.
Jackie left a great void when she passed on, a great lady.
It is possible to get if you dig around.
Tree Wisdom: The definitive guidebook to the myth, folklore and
healing power of Trees.
Being a druid as she was, she also knew that writing about "Druids"
was not the way to go.

I read [Lebor Feasa Runda], it was clearly a fake, the mistakes
in Gaelic were terrible, it is esentially pretending to be
Gaelic to German to English.

On Sep 10, 12:17 pm, Noinden <noin... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

I read [Lebor Feasa Runda], it was clearly a fake, the mistakes
in Gaelic were terrible, it is esentially pretending to be
Gaelic to German to English.

And, as pointed out on Wikipedia, the German was terrible too,
clearly a machine translation *from* English, not vice versa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Druid#.22The_Lebor_Feasa_Runda.22

Quoting "dab":

English "translation"
Long ago, before the dawn of the ages, there was
naught but the depths of a vast emptiness which
was the goddess Domnann

German "original"
Vor langer Zeit vor der Dämmerung des Alters,
gab es wertlos aber die Tiefen einer
beträchtlichen Leere, die die Göttin Domnann war

actual grammatical German translation of the English
Vor langer Zeit vor der Dämmerung der Zeiten,
gab es nichts als die Tiefen einer
riesigen Leere, die die Göttin Domnann war

"Dämmerung des Alters" is a machine translation
of the English expression "dawn of the ages",
impossible in German. "wertlos aber die Tiefen"
is again a machine translation of "nought but the
depths", completely ungrammatical and even comic
in German.

I don't know what translaton software would come up with "beträchtlich"
("considerable") for "vast", but that is already a marginal concern at
this point.

In fact, an English-to-German translation by WorldLingo
produces the identical (erroneous) text, word-for-word.