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| bosco... |
 Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:11 pm |
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It seems to me that Shamans of the past knew about as much or little
about Shamanism as we do. Because people lived in tribes and villages,
knowledge was passed down from person to person and we have played that
game in grade school, and know the results.
Unless we are willing tho believe that every generation of Shaman was
perfect, it is doubtful that there was an unbroken knowedge stream
where the village Shaman never found themselves in uncharted territory.
Shamans of yesterday knew what they were told by the elder village
Shaman, or spirit, same as it is today.
Not to introduce more into my thoughts, but it also seems obvious that
there were as many or more flavors of Shamanism as there are today.
I look at some of the Shamanistic sites, and the site owner who is a
self professed Shaman of one sort or another, has more in common with
the Oracle of Delphi actual Shamanism.
I am glad I am ignorant except for what I know. Thinking out loud on a
Saturday... |
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| Korky... |
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:29 am |
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On this day, Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:11:27 -0600, an entity purporting to be
one bosco <boscopelone at (no spam) yahoo.com> gave us the benefit of its "thoughts":
Quote: It seems to me that Shamans of the past knew about as much or little
about Shamanism as we do. Because people lived in tribes and villages,
knowledge was passed down from person to person and we have played that
game in grade school, and know the results.
Unless we are willing tho believe that every generation of Shaman was
perfect, it is doubtful that there was an unbroken knowedge stream
where the village Shaman never found themselves in uncharted territory.
Shamans of yesterday knew what they were told by the elder village
Shaman, or spirit, same as it is today.
Not to introduce more into my thoughts, but it also seems obvious that
there were as many or more flavors of Shamanism as there are today.
I look at some of the Shamanistic sites, and the site owner who is a
self professed Shaman of one sort or another, has more in common with
the Oracle of Delphi actual Shamanism.
I am glad I am ignorant except for what I know. Thinking out loud on a
Saturday...
Nonsense! |
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| Doug Freyburger... |
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:08 am |
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Guest
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bosco <boscopel... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
I am not sure of my thoughts when I wrote this, but they align pretty
close to what you mention ...
When you first posted it what popped into my head was
the words to a David Bowie song and what it says about
the approach so many people take to direct contact with
the realm of the spirits -
Seems to me, you don't want to talk about it.
Seems to me, you don't want to know about it.
Seems to me, you just turn your pretty head and walk away.
It's a nice enough song when sung by David Bowie with
guitar and drums. I always thought it was about human to
human relationships until bosco posted a couple of weeks
ago. I'm sure David Bowie intended his song that way.
But it works just as well as commentary on the most
common human to spirit attitudes about relationships.
I don't know how much of this common attitude is fall
out from a couple of extremely large population monotheist
religions preaching attitudes that the spirits of the dead
are to be avoided. Plenty of old tales from before the
arrival of the monotheist religion that's now the majority in
Europe and the Americas are about spirits of the dead.
How much that maps to attitude by larger percentages
of the population in even more ancient times is hard to
say. How much that maps to attitudes about spirits that
never have been human is hard to say. Certainly the total
population was tiny compared to today and the number of
people that any one person could contact was tiny
compared to today.
When faring forth I've occasionally wondered how many of
the spirits I encounter were ever human. Not many as
far as I can tell, not that my guesses on the topic have
much chance of accuracy. But a faith that forbids contact
with spirits that used to be human polices their rule by
forbidding faring forth in the first place. I find their approach
strange, alien and frustrating. |
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| Doug Freyburger... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:06 am |
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Guest
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bosco <boscopel... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
I would think the spirits who used to be human contact thing may stem
from self limting beliefs of the person rather than restriction on the
spirit itself. I never really thought about it or investigated, so it
is a passing thought, no more.
Much of it comes from how my own mind processes my
experience of a spirit. I want to have an image and at
times a visual image isn't supplied. A couple decades
ago a spirit's image looked too familiar - Thinking back I
had ended up filling in the image from a movie current at
the time.
That led me to ponder both the lesson offered by that
spirit and also the idea that cultural filters greatly
influence how each of us perceive and react when we
encounter a spirit. It's a topic with more interest to folks
who have decided to follow a specific pantheon than folks
who put most focus on direct contact. A routine matter
for the regulars here as you stated, more applicable to
pondering unity versus diversity of pagan pantheons.
Thanks for the discussion |
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| bosco... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:49 am |
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Guest
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On 2009-08-03 08:06:46 -0600, Doug Freyburger <dfreybur at (no spam) yahoo.com> said:
Quote: bosco <boscopel... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
I would think the spirits who used to be human contact thing may stem
from self limting beliefs of the person rather than restriction on the
spirit itself. I never really thought about it or investigated, so it
is a passing thought, no more.
Much of it comes from how my own mind processes my
experience of a spirit. I want to have an image and at
times a visual image isn't supplied. A couple decades
ago a spirit's image looked too familiar - Thinking back I
had ended up filling in the image from a movie current at
the time.
That led me to ponder both the lesson offered by that
spirit and also the idea that cultural filters greatly
influence how each of us perceive and react when we
encounter a spirit. It's a topic with more interest to folks
who have decided to follow a specific pantheon than folks
who put most focus on direct contact. A routine matter
for the regulars here as you stated, more applicable to
pondering unity versus diversity of pagan pantheons.
Thanks for the discussion
I have thought the same thing too. As you say, it is possible are given
(mostly) visual images in a form that we can relate to or respond to. I
am curious too about how we when interacting with spirit know proof
positive that what we see is what we get.
I have thought for a while that all my interactions conceivably could
be the same entity representing itself in different forms. Taking that
a little further, all of us could be interacting with the same spirit
or few spirits and each of us see and hear different images, forms, and
personalities that we individually can relate to, or interact with.
As a simple example, I have had interaction with different animals who
all belong to the same groupings, say horse, deer. Yet from my
understanding all of them are either horse or deer. This is why I have
always wondered if it is one being acting as many.
Perhaps whatever our mood is at that time reflects to spirit who
responds in a different form. I sure don't know.
At any rate, this is a good discussion. |
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| ... |
| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:34 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:49:25 -0600, bosco <boscopelone at (no spam) yahoo.com>
wrote:
Quote: On 2009-08-03 08:06:46 -0600, Doug Freyburger <dfreybur at (no spam) yahoo.com> said:
bosco <boscopel... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
I would think the spirits who used to be human contact thing may stem
from self limting beliefs of the person rather than restriction on the
spirit itself. I never really thought about it or investigated, so it
is a passing thought, no more.
Much of it comes from how my own mind processes my
experience of a spirit. I want to have an image and at
times a visual image isn't supplied. A couple decades
ago a spirit's image looked too familiar - Thinking back I
had ended up filling in the image from a movie current at
the time.
That led me to ponder both the lesson offered by that
spirit and also the idea that cultural filters greatly
influence how each of us perceive and react when we
encounter a spirit. It's a topic with more interest to folks
who have decided to follow a specific pantheon than folks
who put most focus on direct contact. A routine matter
for the regulars here as you stated, more applicable to
pondering unity versus diversity of pagan pantheons.
Thanks for the discussion
I have thought the same thing too. As you say, it is possible are given
(mostly) visual images in a form that we can relate to or respond to. I
am curious too about how we when interacting with spirit know proof
positive that what we see is what we get.
I have thought for a while that all my interactions conceivably could
be the same entity representing itself in different forms. Taking that
a little further, all of us could be interacting with the same spirit
or few spirits and each of us see and hear different images, forms, and
personalities that we individually can relate to, or interact with.
As a simple example, I have had interaction with different animals who
all belong to the same groupings, say horse, deer. Yet from my
understanding all of them are either horse or deer. This is why I have
always wondered if it is one being acting as many.
Perhaps whatever our mood is at that time reflects to spirit who
responds in a different form. I sure don't know.
At any rate, this is a good discussion.
Gents,
I'm a lurker who just subscribed to this NG, and have found this
thread interesting. I do not interact with spirits with such clarity
as you guys (girls?) talk about, as I am just begining my shamanic
journey and have much to learn. For some reason, I'm drawn to
Shamanism, firstly through an attraction to natives indigenous to
North America. Not *them* per se, but their spirituality. And I feel
there's a rite of passage waiting for me... perhaps a vision quest?
Don't know. I've been handed a sacred symbol during a meditation which
I'm not sure what to do with; I've manipulated weather, spoken
specific words of guidance to people that blew them away... all these
are little glimpses into a world that is drawing me, but I lack the
direction and vision.
I'm not sure why I'm blithering here, but I have sensed peace and
humility in your interesting thread...
Jim |
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| bosco... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:48 am |
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Guest
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On 2009-08-05 14:34:25 -0600, james at (no spam) jamesphotography.ca said:
Quote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:49:25 -0600, bosco <boscopelone at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
On 2009-08-03 08:06:46 -0600, Doug Freyburger <dfreybur at (no spam) yahoo.com> said:
bosco <boscopel... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
I would think the spirits who used to be human contact thing may stem
from self limting beliefs of the person rather than restriction on the
spirit itself. I never really thought about it or investigated, so it
is a passing thought, no more.
Much of it comes from how my own mind processes my
experience of a spirit. I want to have an image and at
times a visual image isn't supplied. A couple decades
ago a spirit's image looked too familiar - Thinking back I
had ended up filling in the image from a movie current at
the time.
That led me to ponder both the lesson offered by that
spirit and also the idea that cultural filters greatly
influence how each of us perceive and react when we
encounter a spirit. It's a topic with more interest to folks
who have decided to follow a specific pantheon than folks
who put most focus on direct contact. A routine matter
for the regulars here as you stated, more applicable to
pondering unity versus diversity of pagan pantheons.
Thanks for the discussion
I have thought the same thing too. As you say, it is possible are given
(mostly) visual images in a form that we can relate to or respond to. I
am curious too about how we when interacting with spirit know proof
positive that what we see is what we get.
I have thought for a while that all my interactions conceivably could
be the same entity representing itself in different forms. Taking that
a little further, all of us could be interacting with the same spirit
or few spirits and each of us see and hear different images, forms, and
personalities that we individually can relate to, or interact with.
As a simple example, I have had interaction with different animals who
all belong to the same groupings, say horse, deer. Yet from my
understanding all of them are either horse or deer. This is why I have
always wondered if it is one being acting as many.
Perhaps whatever our mood is at that time reflects to spirit who
responds in a different form. I sure don't know.
At any rate, this is a good discussion.
Gents,
I'm a lurker who just subscribed to this NG, and have found this
thread interesting. I do not interact with spirits with such clarity
as you guys (girls?) talk about, as I am just begining my shamanic
journey and have much to learn. For some reason, I'm drawn to
Shamanism, firstly through an attraction to natives indigenous to
North America. Not *them* per se, but their spirituality. And I feel
there's a rite of passage waiting for me... perhaps a vision quest?
Don't know. I've been handed a sacred symbol during a meditation which
I'm not sure what to do with; I've manipulated weather, spoken
specific words of guidance to people that blew them away... all these
are little glimpses into a world that is drawing me, but I lack the
direction and vision.
I'm not sure why I'm blithering here, but I have sensed peace and
humility in your interesting thread...
Jim
Hello Jim,
I hope you find the direction and vision you are looking for. Some have
found it, and other have found themselves happily driven having little
control over their purpose, most land somewhere in the middle.
The archives are well worth reading if you take the time to search for
the wheat amongst the chaff so to speak. Theere are a lot of great
posts containing some amazing insight and understanding.
Good luck,
ben |
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| Noah Spam... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:37 pm |
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Guest
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james at (no spam) jamesphotography.ca wrote:
Quote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:49:25 -0600, bosco <boscopelone at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
On 2009-08-03 08:06:46 -0600, Doug Freyburger <dfreybur at (no spam) yahoo.com> said:
bosco <boscopel... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
I would think the spirits who used to be human contact thing may stem
from self limting beliefs of the person rather than restriction on the
spirit itself. I never really thought about it or investigated, so it
is a passing thought, no more.
Much of it comes from how my own mind processes my
experience of a spirit. I want to have an image and at
times a visual image isn't supplied. A couple decades
ago a spirit's image looked too familiar - Thinking back I
had ended up filling in the image from a movie current at
the time.
That led me to ponder both the lesson offered by that
spirit and also the idea that cultural filters greatly
influence how each of us perceive and react when we
encounter a spirit. It's a topic with more interest to folks
who have decided to follow a specific pantheon than folks
who put most focus on direct contact. A routine matter
for the regulars here as you stated, more applicable to
pondering unity versus diversity of pagan pantheons.
Thanks for the discussion
I have thought the same thing too. As you say, it is possible are given
(mostly) visual images in a form that we can relate to or respond to. I
am curious too about how we when interacting with spirit know proof
positive that what we see is what we get.
I have thought for a while that all my interactions conceivably could
be the same entity representing itself in different forms. Taking that
a little further, all of us could be interacting with the same spirit
or few spirits and each of us see and hear different images, forms, and
personalities that we individually can relate to, or interact with.
As a simple example, I have had interaction with different animals who
all belong to the same groupings, say horse, deer. Yet from my
understanding all of them are either horse or deer. This is why I have
always wondered if it is one being acting as many.
Perhaps whatever our mood is at that time reflects to spirit who
responds in a different form. I sure don't know.
At any rate, this is a good discussion.
Gents,
I'm a lurker who just subscribed to this NG, and have found this
thread interesting. I do not interact with spirits with such clarity
as you guys (girls?) talk about, as I am just begining my shamanic
journey and have much to learn. For some reason, I'm drawn to
Shamanism, firstly through an attraction to natives indigenous to
North America. Not *them* per se, but their spirituality. And I feel
there's a rite of passage waiting for me... perhaps a vision quest?
Don't know. I've been handed a sacred symbol during a meditation which
I'm not sure what to do with; I've manipulated weather, spoken
specific words of guidance to people that blew them away... all these
are little glimpses into a world that is drawing me, but I lack the
direction and vision.
I'm not sure why I'm blithering here, but I have sensed peace and
humility in your interesting thread...
Jim
Welcome! And good luck on your journey, Jim! The spirits will tell you
more than we will.
sb |
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| bosco... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:25 pm |
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Guest
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On 2009-09-01 15:37:38 -0600, Noah Spam <noahdspam at (no spam) gmail.com> said:
Quote: james at (no spam) jamesphotography.ca wrote:
On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:49:25 -0600, bosco <boscopelone at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
On 2009-08-03 08:06:46 -0600, Doug Freyburger <dfreybur at (no spam) yahoo.com> said:
bosco <boscopel... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
I would think the spirits who used to be human contact thing may stem
from self limting beliefs of the person rather than restriction on the
spirit itself. I never really thought about it or investigated, so it
is a passing thought, no more.
Much of it comes from how my own mind processes my
experience of a spirit. I want to have an image and at
times a visual image isn't supplied. A couple decades
ago a spirit's image looked too familiar - Thinking back I
had ended up filling in the image from a movie current at
the time.
That led me to ponder both the lesson offered by that
spirit and also the idea that cultural filters greatly
influence how each of us perceive and react when we
encounter a spirit. It's a topic with more interest to folks
who have decided to follow a specific pantheon than folks
who put most focus on direct contact. A routine matter
for the regulars here as you stated, more applicable to
pondering unity versus diversity of pagan pantheons.
Thanks for the discussion
I have thought the same thing too. As you say, it is possible are given
(mostly) visual images in a form that we can relate to or respond to. I
am curious too about how we when interacting with spirit know proof
positive that what we see is what we get.
I have thought for a while that all my interactions conceivably could
be the same entity representing itself in different forms. Taking that
a little further, all of us could be interacting with the same spirit
or few spirits and each of us see and hear different images, forms, and
personalities that we individually can relate to, or interact with.
As a simple example, I have had interaction with different animals who
all belong to the same groupings, say horse, deer. Yet from my
understanding all of them are either horse or deer. This is why I have
always wondered if it is one being acting as many.
Perhaps whatever our mood is at that time reflects to spirit who
responds in a different form. I sure don't know.
At any rate, this is a good discussion.
Gents,
I'm a lurker who just subscribed to this NG, and have found this
thread interesting. I do not interact with spirits with such clarity
as you guys (girls?) talk about, as I am just begining my shamanic
journey and have much to learn. For some reason, I'm drawn to
Shamanism, firstly through an attraction to natives indigenous to
North America. Not *them* per se, but their spirituality. And I feel
there's a rite of passage waiting for me... perhaps a vision quest?
Don't know. I've been handed a sacred symbol during a meditation which
I'm not sure what to do with; I've manipulated weather, spoken
specific words of guidance to people that blew them away... all these
are little glimpses into a world that is drawing me, but I lack the
direction and vision.
I'm not sure why I'm blithering here, but I have sensed peace and
humility in your interesting thread...
Jim
Welcome! And good luck on your journey, Jim! The spirits will tell you
more than we will.
sb
By far, learning to listen before you are grabbed by the neck and your
nose shoved in it helps a lot
ben |
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