randy wrote:

"bob young"
Critics love reminding us there are 40,000+ Christian denominations in
the world (and within some of them - like the RC church - there are many
sub-groups/Orders). Is that a problem?

It is for believers, since any real god would make pretty sure that it's
adoring followers would be kept totally free from the confusion that they
have little choice in wallowing in right now.

Having more denominations is better than having less denominations, just
like having more Christian families is better than having less Christian
families. The only confusion seems to be coming from those who want to
elevate their particular group above others, or from those who don't
believe in Christianity altogether.

Of course there are always imposter groups, or counterfeit groups.

How do you propose determining what is an imposter group?

Critics love reminding us there are 40,000+ Christian denominations in
the world (and within some of them - like the RC church - there are many
sub-groups/Orders). Is that a problem?

It is for believers, since any real god would make pretty sure that it's
adoring followers would be kept totally free from the confusion that they
have little choice in wallowing in right now.

"bob young"
Critics love reminding us there are 40,000+ Christian denominations in
the world (and within some of them - like the RC church - there are many
sub-groups/Orders). Is that a problem?

It is for believers, since any real god would make pretty sure that it's
adoring followers would be kept totally free from the confusion that they
have little choice in wallowing in right now.

Having more denominations is better than having less denominations, just
like having more Christian families is better than having less Christian
families. The only confusion seems to be coming from those who want to
elevate their particular group above others, or from those who don't
believe in Christianity altogether.

Of course there are always imposter groups, or counterfeit groups.

On Aug 21, 9:55 am, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
randy wrote:

"bob young"
Critics love reminding us there are 40,000+ Christian denominations in
the world (and within some of them - like the RC church - there are many
sub-groups/Orders). Is that a problem?
It is for believers, since any real god would make pretty sure that it's
adoring followers would be kept totally free from the confusion that they
have little choice in wallowing in right now.
Having more denominations is better than having less denominations, just
like having more Christian families is better than having less Christian
families. The only confusion seems to be coming from those who want to
elevate their particular group above others, or from those who don't
believe in Christianity altogether.
Of course there are always imposter groups, or counterfeit groups.
How do you propose determining what is an imposter group?


"Impostor"? An impostor group would be one in which the founders are
totally cynical about the founding doctrines.

groups is often alleged about Christianity and Eastern religions, but
never about Judaism. Isn't that interesting?

Of course there are always imposter groups, or counterfeit groups.

How do you propose determining what is an imposter group?

THe obvious way would be to have the god point the right ones out - but
since no god is proven to exist - you have a BIG problem

"Thommadura"
randy
Of course there are always imposter groups, or counterfeit groups.

How do you propose determining what is an imposter group?

As I said, sometimes you have to study and use your mind. Apologetics is a
good place to start. But there are creeds and orthodox theology to establish
the right path. This is how "the god" decided it would be best to "point
things out," by getting us to use our own minds. It is important not just to
have revelation from God, but to also use our minds in a responsible way.

THe obvious way would be to have the god point the right ones out - but
since no god is proven to exist - you have a BIG problem

No problem at all. God proves He exists by getting us to use our minds.

When
we do so in a responsible way, we can understand God by revelation. He is
clearly seen in Nature, by its "intelligent design."
randy

No problem at all. God proves He exists by getting us to use our minds.

What juvenile nonsense

randy wrote:

"bob young"
randy

No problem at all. God proves He exists by getting us to use our minds.

What juvenile nonsense

To use our minds to recognize God is not "nonsense,

Really - prove it!

PRovide a list of all the things you can PROVE in a testable and
verifiable way - about a god.

YOUR list is just as empty as Monfish's is.

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:6rqdnQBiRYobwAjXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
randy

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:45e47c11-3ce1-4eb0-963c-d7f21743f39c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 9:59 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:6rqdnQBiRYobwAjXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
randy

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"If that were true, no one would ever move from the class of
unbelievers to believers.  But such movement is quite common by many
people all over the world, so your statement is proven false.
"
Theoretically what you say is obviously right, but in practice, you are
wrong.

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:McidnSodHsxb8wjXnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...





"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith..
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy

Real evidence, huh?

Do you need deities to be fair to your neighbor or love your enemies?

randy wrote:

"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime,
but it is always *in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you,
and you refuse to pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't
prove there is no God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith..
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy

However - one not need believe in gods or religions to be honest - and
fair - and ethical. THat is simply humanity.

In fact - there are no statistics that show that thieists are any more
of the above things than non-believers are - and there are actual
statistics that imply that non-believers are more honest - fair - and
ethical

(See the Barna Group  - and the Jesuit Journal of Religion and
Philosophy)

Since there is NO provable information from heaven - I will dismiss that
one as unprovable - and therefore unknowable.

And that is the same with gods - there is no proof. IF you want to use
the word evidence -the same evidence YOU claim for your god exists for
all 28 million other gods so far named by humans as well. Yet - you
dismiss most of them - for no PROVABLE reason.

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:e729cec0-59fb-432e-a0dd-e4eef6f2ee7c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 10:36 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:



"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:45e47c11-3ce1-4eb0-963c-d7f21743f39c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com....
On Aug 26, 9:59 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:6rqdnQBiRYobwAjXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is
always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
randy

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"If that were true, no one would ever move from the class of
unbelievers to believers. But such movement is quite common by many
people all over the world, so your statement is proven false.
"
Theoretically what you say is obviously right, but in practice, you are
wrong.

"Are we left to accept your word on faith?  Or will you be explaining
at some future time?"

Go back and read the post stating with "Access to God. . "  It obviously
mean that you have to believe before you can believe

Terry Cross wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:38 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:
"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:McidnSodHsxb8wjXnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
OK, you have to believe to believe, right?
No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy
Real evidence, huh?

Do you need deities to be fair to your neighbor or love your enemies?

Maybe you will provide examples of your assertions.  How does it work
with gorillas, flatworms, and bacteria?

How many churches have flatworms erected to their gods?
How many statues have gorillas made of their gods?

The fact is - gods did not appear in the historical record until long
after humans appeared

- you do not see animals kneeling down to worship
something that they cannot prove to exist. Does that make them smarter
than theists?

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:c0cddae2-2616-455e-a3a7-da743e9598e0 at (no spam) z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 10:38 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:







"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:McidnSodHsxb8wjXnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is
always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no
God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy

Real evidence, huh?

Do you need deities to be fair to your neighbor or love your enemies?

"Maybe you will provide examples of your assertions.  How does it work
with gorillas, flatworms, and bacteria?"

Your question does not make much sense.  I will repeat my question:
Do you need deities to be fair to your neighbor or love your enemies?