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Religion Forum Index » Christian Methodist Forum » Reflections on the Ten Commandments Today...
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| **Rowland Croucher**... |
 Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:00 am |
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Thorvald Lorenzen, Toward a Culture of Freedom: Reflections on the Ten
Commandments Today (Cascade Books, 2008).
Thorvald Lorenzen, currently Professor of Theology at Charles Sturt
University, is one of Australia’s most gifted theologians. His other
books include Resurrection and Discipleship: Interpretive Models,
Biblical Reflections and Theological Consequences (1995, 2003), and
Resurrection-Discipleship-Justice: Affirming the Resurrection of Jesus
Christ Today (2003).
He brings two special strengths to his work as a theologian: he is a
pastor (most recently, Canberra Baptist Church in Australia’s capital
city) and his cross-cultural background (he has taught in Europe and
Australia, and is fluent in German and English, as well as the Biblical
languages).
This volume on the Torah’s ‘Ten Words’ reads like something produced in
a theologian’s study, but honed in real-life situations. So the chapters
begin with a few pages of theological comments but then apply the
ethical principles of the Judeo-Christian commandments to life, and to
contemporary global questions. The book is a marvellous resource for
preaching on the Decalogue.
Thorvald Lorenzen is a progressive theologian (as I read him), but who
takes the biblical text seriously. So the conservatives – except for
some in Eastern Europe who ‘wrote him off’ for not sharing their views
about a personal Devil – will generally benefit if they have an open
mind about how a competent biblical exegete unpacks the text. And the
progressives will connect, for example, with his refusal to use
masculine – or any - pronouns for God; Deuteronomy was written in the
7th century BCE etc.
The ‘ten words’, writes Lorenzen, are not restrictive, seeking to spoil
humans’ fun. Rather they are liberating, aimed at our enjoyment of life.
‘The ten words are guidelines in our quest to affirm life.’ They’re not
intended to be laws or dogmas (note that in the four Gospels Jesus did
not quote all of the commandments).
It’s packed full of marvellous insights. How about this, for example: ‘A
generation that ignores the wisdom and errors, achievements and failures
of its predecessors is ill-prepared to face the future. Would the
revolutions of Germany’s youth in the 1960s and of America’s youth in
the 1970s have happened if their parents had talked about their war
experiences and the associated horror and guilt and doubts?’ (p. 86).
Ever thought of that?
Another profundity: ‘Each of us has, or rather is, a conscience.
Conscience is the centre of our personhood. It makes us who we are. It
shapes our identity. It is worth understanding and caring for’ (p. 20).
And throughout Thorvald writes as a prophet. Try this, for example:
‘When some reformers in the sixteenth century took down the pictures and
removed the statues from the churches, they wanted to make room for the
living voice of the gospel. They wanted to celebrate Jesus as the one
word that we need to hear, trust and obey in life and in death. But soon
others, lesser minds and lesser hearts, came along and put a book where
the pictures had been. So for many Christians the living voice of the
gospel has been frozen into a book, the Bible. And around the world
there are many Christians who spend more time and energy fighting about
the Bible than in worshipping and obeying the Christ to whom the Bible
points’ (p. 52).
Challenging stuff. If you’re a pastor, ‘Preach it, sister/brother!’
Rowland Croucher
May 2008
--
Shalom/Salaam/Pax! Rowland Croucher
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/ (20,000 articles 4000 humor)
Blogs - http://rowlandsblogs.blogspot.com/
Justice for Dawn Rowan - http://dawnrowansaga.blogspot.com/
Funny Jokes and Pics - http://funnyjokesnpics.blogspot.com/ |
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| monkfish... |
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:49 am |
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**Rowland Croucher** wrote:
Quote: Thorvald Lorenzen, Toward a Culture of Freedom: Reflections on the Ten
Commandments Today (Cascade Books, 2008).
Thorvald Lorenzen, currently Professor of Theology at Charles Sturt
University, is one of Australia’s most gifted theologians. His other
books include Resurrection and Discipleship: Interpretive Models,
Biblical Reflections and Theological Consequences (1995, 2003), and
Resurrection-Discipleship-Justice: Affirming the Resurrection of Jesus
Christ Today (2003).
[snip]
Another profundity: ‘Each of us has, or rather is, a conscience.
Conscience is the centre of our personhood. It makes us who we are. It
shapes our identity. It is worth understanding and caring for’ (p. 20).
[snip]
Now atheists are going to ask what conscience is
and whether it even exists.
--
monkfish
* Kindly note that the followup-to header is
set to alt.christnet.theology. |
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| jwsheffield at (no spam) satx.rr.com... |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:03 pm |
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Guest
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The Ten Commandments
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his
household.
The First Commandment.
Thou shalt have no other gods.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear, love, and trust in God above all things.
The Second Commandment.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not curse, swear, use
witchcraft, lie, or deceive by His name, but call upon it in every
trouble, pray, praise, and give thanks.
The Third Commandment.
Thou shalt sanctify the holy-day.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not despise preaching and His
Word, but hold it sacred, and gladly hear and learn it.
The Fourth Commandment.
Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother [that it may be well with
thee and thou mayest live long upon the earth].
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not despise nor anger our
parents and masters, but give them honor, serve, obey, and hold them
in love and esteem.
The Fifth Commandment.
Thou shalt not kill.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not hurt nor harm our neighbor
in his body, but help and befriend him in every bodily need [in every
need and danger of life and body].
The Sixth Commandment.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may lead a chaste and decent life
in words and deeds, and each love and honor his spouse.
The Seventh Commandment.
Thou shalt not steal.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not take our neighbor's money
or property, nor get them by false ware or dealing, but help him to
improve and protect his property and business [that his means are
preserved and his condition is improved].
The Eighth Commandment.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not deceitfully belie, betray,
slander, or defame our neighbor, but defend him, [think and] speak
well of him, and put the best construction on everything.
The Ninth Commandment.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not craftily seek to get our
neighbor's inheritance or house, and obtain it by a show of [justice
and] right, etc., but help and be of service to him in keeping it.
The Tenth Commandment.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his
maid-servant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is his.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not estrange, force, or entice
away our neighbor's wife, servants, or cattle, but urge them to stay
and [diligently] do their duty.
What Does God Say of All These Commandments?
Answer.
He says thus (Exod. 20, 5f ]: I the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third
and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto
thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?--Answer.
God threatens to punish all that transgress these commandments.
Therefore we should dread His wrath and not act contrary to these
commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all that
keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in
Him, and gladly do [zealously and diligently order our whole life]
according to His commandments.
http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#tencommandments |
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| JohnN... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:09 am |
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On May 18, 11:03 pm, "jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com"
<jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com> wrote:
Quote: The Ten Commandments
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his
household.
What Does God Say of All These Commandments?
Answer.
He says thus (Exod. 20, 5f ]: I the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third
and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto
thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?--Answer.
God threatens to punish all that transgress these commandments.
Therefore we should dread His wrath and not act contrary to these
commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all that
keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in
Him, and gladly do [zealously and diligently order our whole life]
according to His commandments.
http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#tencommandments
Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love god and to love
your neighbor. No fear, no threats, no eternal damnation, just
love.
No wonder christians don't follow Jesus' teachings.
JohnN |
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| jwsheffield at (no spam) satx.rr.com... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:10 am |
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Guest
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On May 19, 2:24 pm, Thom Madura <Tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
Quote: JohnN wrote:
On May 18, 11:03 pm, "jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com"
jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com> wrote:
The Ten Commandments
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his
household.
What Does God Say of All These Commandments?
Answer.
He says thus (Exod. 20, 5f ]: I the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third
and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto
thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?--Answer.
God threatens to punish all that transgress these commandments.
Therefore we should dread His wrath and not act contrary to these
commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all that
keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in
Him, and gladly do [zealously and diligently order our whole life]
according to His commandments.
http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#tencommandments
Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love god and to love
your neighbor. No fear, no threats, no eternal damnation, just
love.
No wonder christians don't follow Jesus' teachings.
JohnN
More important - he was wrong - NEITHER of those appear on the list in
the Old Testament. AS far as the "No fear, no threats, no eternal
damnation, just love" - Try telling that to Sister Dominick - she would
it you over the head with a metal ruler!
De 6:5 - And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Le 19:18 - Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the
children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD.
Jim
Isa 42:6 -I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold
thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the
people, for a light of the Gentiles; |
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| jwsheffield at (no spam) satx.rr.com... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:14 am |
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Guest
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On May 19, 1:09 pm, JohnN <jnorri... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On May 18, 11:03 pm, "jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com"
jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com> wrote:
The Ten Commandments
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his
household.
What Does God Say of All These Commandments?
Answer.
He says thus (Exod. 20, 5f ]: I the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third
and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto
thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?--Answer.
God threatens to punish all that transgress these commandments.
Therefore we should dread His wrath and not act contrary to these
commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all that
keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in
Him, and gladly do [zealously and diligently order our whole life]
according to His commandments.
http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#tencommandments
Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love god and to love
your neighbor. No fear, no threats, no eternal damnation, just
love.
No wonder christians don't follow Jesus' teachings.
JohnN
Mt 7:5 -Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own
eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy
brother's eye.
Jim
Matt 9
9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named
Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him,
Follow me. And he arose, and followed him. 10 And it came to pass, as
Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners
came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11 And when the
Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master
with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto
them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not
sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to
repentance. |
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| Thom Madura... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:24 pm |
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Guest
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JohnN wrote:
Quote: On May 18, 11:03 pm, "jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com"
jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com> wrote:
The Ten Commandments
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his
household.
What Does God Say of All These Commandments?
Answer.
He says thus (Exod. 20, 5f ]: I the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third
and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto
thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?--Answer.
God threatens to punish all that transgress these commandments.
Therefore we should dread His wrath and not act contrary to these
commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all that
keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in
Him, and gladly do [zealously and diligently order our whole life]
according to His commandments.
http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#tencommandments
Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love god and to love
your neighbor. No fear, no threats, no eternal damnation, just
love.
No wonder christians don't follow Jesus' teachings.
JohnN
More important - he was wrong - NEITHER of those appear on the list in
the Old Testament. AS far as the "No fear, no threats, no eternal
damnation, just love" - Try telling that to Sister Dominick - she would
it you over the head with a metal ruler! |
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| jwsheffield at (no spam) satx.rr.com... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:14 pm |
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Guest
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On May 19, 7:45 pm, Thom Madura <Tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
Quote: jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com wrote:
On May 19, 2:24 pm, Thom Madura <Tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
JohnN wrote:
On May 18, 11:03 pm, "jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com"
jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com> wrote:
The Ten Commandments
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his
household.
What Does God Say of All These Commandments?
Answer.
He says thus (Exod. 20, 5f ]: I the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third
and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto
thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?--Answer.
God threatens to punish all that transgress these commandments.
Therefore we should dread His wrath and not act contrary to these
commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all that
keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in
Him, and gladly do [zealously and diligently order our whole life]
according to His commandments.
http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#tencommandments
Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love god and to love
your neighbor. No fear, no threats, no eternal damnation, just
love.
No wonder christians don't follow Jesus' teachings.
JohnN
More important - he was wrong - NEITHER of those appear on the list in
the Old Testament. AS far as the "No fear, no threats, no eternal
damnation, just love" - Try telling that to Sister Dominick - she would
it you over the head with a metal ruler!
De 6:5 - And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Le 19:18 - Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the
children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD.
Jim
Isa 42:6 -I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold
thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the
people, for a light of the Gentiles;
I stand by my statement - the two are NOT part of the 10 supposedly on
the first set of stones that no one saw but Moses and a burning plant
because Moses destroyed them when he saw the golden calf - yet were
written in the bible in THIRD person -
THey are -
1 - I am the one and only god - dont have any others
2 - Don't take my name that you don't use anyway in vain
3 - Keep Saturday Holy
4 - Honor mom and dad
5 - Don't kill
6 - Don't play around unless I arrange it (See abraham)
7 - Don't steal
8 - Tell the truth -
9 - Leave your neighbors wife alone
10 - Leave the rest of your neighbors property alone too.
So - NEITHER appear on the list in the old testament
De 6:5 - And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Le 19:18 - Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the
children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD.
What sophistry, both are found
in the Torah.
Jim
2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these
things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they
that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other
scriptures, unto their own destruction. |
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| Thom Madura... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:45 pm |
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Guest
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jwsheffield at (no spam) satx.rr.com wrote:
Quote: On May 19, 2:24 pm, Thom Madura <Tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
JohnN wrote:
On May 18, 11:03 pm, "jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com"
jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com> wrote:
The Ten Commandments
As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his
household.
What Does God Say of All These Commandments?
Answer.
He says thus (Exod. 20, 5f ]: I the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third
and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto
thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
What does this mean?--Answer.
God threatens to punish all that transgress these commandments.
Therefore we should dread His wrath and not act contrary to these
commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all that
keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in
Him, and gladly do [zealously and diligently order our whole life]
according to His commandments.
http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#tencommandments
Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love god and to love
your neighbor. No fear, no threats, no eternal damnation, just
love.
No wonder christians don't follow Jesus' teachings.
JohnN
More important - he was wrong - NEITHER of those appear on the list in
the Old Testament. AS far as the "No fear, no threats, no eternal
damnation, just love" - Try telling that to Sister Dominick - she would
it you over the head with a metal ruler!
De 6:5 - And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Le 19:18 - Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the
children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD.
Jim
Isa 42:6 -I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold
thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the
people, for a light of the Gentiles;
I stand by my statement - the two are NOT part of the 10 supposedly on
the first set of stones that no one saw but Moses and a burning plant
because Moses destroyed them when he saw the golden calf - yet were
written in the bible in THIRD person -
THey are -
1 - I am the one and only god - dont have any others
2 - Don't take my name that you don't use anyway in vain
3 - Keep Saturday Holy
4 - Honor mom and dad
5 - Don't kill
6 - Don't play around unless I arrange it (See abraham)
7 - Don't steal
8 - Tell the truth -
9 - Leave your neighbors wife alone
10 - Leave the rest of your neighbors property alone too.
So - NEITHER appear on the list in the old testament - |
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