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| Garrison Hilliard |
 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:27 am |
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| RolandRB |
| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:37 am |
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Yes they do and some members pay the "Church" of Scientology hundreds
of thousands of dollars to be advanced down this dubious spiritual
path. |
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| Lizard |
| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:34 pm |
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On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:27:34 +0000, Garrison Hilliard
<garrison@efn.org> wrotC:DRIVE_E
Quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera_in_Scientology_doctrine
Objectively, it is no sillier than many other religions. |
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| Marty Rathbun de Roto-roo |
| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:34 pm |
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I think most Scientologists seek to reap the practical benefits of
their courses versus actually believing any of this malarkey.... just
as many people claim to attend church services to hear the music and be
with people versus sharing in any particular religious beliefs.... I
know of several Catholics that are like that. |
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| Bob Officer |
| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:11 pm |
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On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:27:34 +0000, in sci.skeptic, Garrison Hilliard
<garrison@efn.org> wrote:
Quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera_in_Scientology_doctrine
How does that very from any other religious belief?
I guess you have read the history of the JR's
All Religions are nothing more than worship/control cults.
--
Ak'toh'di |
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| John |
| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:05 pm |
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"Lizard" <lizard@dnai.com> wrote in message
news:m1tbi15cha7gcdl6rv81vcaamakhvhn0bh@4ax.com...
At least the silly beliefs of other religions are based on long-past and
simpler times. Scientology beliefs ring particularly silly because of the
context; 50's sci-fi space opera. They are a product of a time and place and
don't have the benefit of hundreds or thousands of years of reworking. |
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| Rhidian |
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:51 am |
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Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry. Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc. It does not require any superior knowledge or person to
interpret the word of God and its believers are not subject to any
restrictions as to what they read etc.
All of the things mentioned above demonstrate that Christianity is far
from being a "worship/control cults." |
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| Bob Officer |
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:15 pm |
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On 13 Sep 2005 05:51:18 -0700, in sci.skeptic, "Rhidian"
<Rhidian_Jowers@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry.
At the same time the faith doesn't allow people to question or reject the
words of god as put forth in the book of fiction called the bible (or any
other religios doctines)
IT also demands you follow and not rebel against "authority" because all
"authority" over you is given by this fictional god.
Saul of Tarsus subverted a "religion" in an attempt to have control over the
people. After he managed to kill or place into prison, the majority of the
cult leadership, he took over the reins of power.
Quote: Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc. It does not require any superior knowledge or person to
interpret the word of God and its believers are not subject to any
restrictions as to what they read etc.
However it still contains contradictions in logic, and is still nothing more
than a control method for the masses.
All Religions were and still based upon control.
Quote: All of the things mentioned above demonstrate that Christianity is far
from being a "worship/control cults."
It is nothing but a medium for control of the masses.
--
Ak'toh'di |
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| Hatunen |
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:04 pm |
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On 13 Sep 2005 05:51:18 -0700, "Rhidian"
<Rhidian_Jowers@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry.
You don't seem to know a thing about early Christianity; The
Nicene council ws called specifically to suppress those who
questioned the nature of Christianity.
Quote: Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc.
The Dead Sea Scrolls never mention Christianity.
Quote: It does not require any superior knowledge or person to
interpret the word of God and its believers are not subject to any
restrictions as to what they read etc.
All of the things mentioned above demonstrate that Christianity is far
from being a "worship/control cults."
It certainly ahs been in the past.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:49 pm |
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On 13 Sep 2005 05:51:18 -0700, "Rhidian" <Rhidian_Jowers@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry. Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc. It does not require any superior knowledge or person to
interpret the word of God and its believers are not subject to any
restrictions as to what they read etc.
Clearly, you have never read books like the Methodist Book of Discipline, nor have you heard of any of the efforts of
many "christian" churches or their members in the United States to have books banned based on their religious beliefs,
so others may not read them, less they become corrupt.
See http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/100mostfrequently.htm
or
http://web.archive.org/web/20040202180309/http://www.univ.com.br/acmm/Diversos/Informacoes/filosofia/espiritismo_e_religiao/Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum/ILP-autor/ILP-autor.html
for a list of books banned by the Catholic Church.
From another web page which, in part, reads:
Censors and Bookbanners in the United States:
Christian Voters League
Concerned Women for America - Beverly LaHay, president
National Assn. of Christian Educators (Robert Simonds, founder)
National Federation of Decency (Rev. Donald Wildmon, exec. dir.)
Roman Catholic Church - Index of Prohibited Books
Quote: All of the things mentioned above demonstrate that Christianity is far
from being a "worship/control cults." |
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| Bob Officer |
| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:04 am |
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Guest
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:04:55 -0700, in sci.skeptic, Hatunen
<hatuunen@cox.net> wrote:
Quote: On 13 Sep 2005 05:51:18 -0700, "Rhidian"
Rhidian_Jowers@hotmail.com> wrote:
Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry.
You don't seem to know a thing about early Christianity; The
Nicene council ws called specifically to suppress those who
questioned the nature of Christianity.
Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc.
The Dead Sea Scrolls never mention Christianity.
The Dead sea scrolls are not christian books of the bible... They actually
predate the fictional jesus by about 300 years or so.
Quote: It does not require any superior knowledge or person to
interpret the word of God and its believers are not subject to any
restrictions as to what they read etc.
All of the things mentioned above demonstrate that Christianity is far
from being a "worship/control cults."
It certainly ahs been in the past.
It is all about control...
It has always been about control
--
Ak'toh'di |
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| Ramona |
| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:11 am |
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Hatunen wrote:
Quote: On 13 Sep 2005 05:51:18 -0700, "Rhidian"
Rhidian_Jowers@hotmail.com> wrote:
Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry.
You don't seem to know a thing about early Christianity; The
Nicene council ws called specifically to suppress those who
questioned the nature of Christianity.
Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc.
The Dead Sea Scrolls never mention Christianity.
The term Christianity would not have been used because it had not yet
been "coined." The scrolls do use the term, "the way" which was what
early christians did call themselves. At that time though, Jewry and
Christians (as we know the religion now) overlapped with the group known
as "the way" being merely a cult/sect of Judaism.
For further information please go to the Qumram library.
http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/Library/library.html
Ramona
Quote:
It does not require any superior knowledge or person to
interpret the word of God and its believers are not subject to any
restrictions as to what they read etc.
All of the things mentioned above demonstrate that Christianity is far
from being a "worship/control cults."
It certainly ahs been in the past.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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| Ramona |
| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:09 am |
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Bob Officer wrote:
Quote: On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:04:55 -0700, in sci.skeptic, Hatunen
hatuunen@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Sep 2005 05:51:18 -0700, "Rhidian"
Rhidian_Jowers@hotmail.com> wrote:
Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry.
You don't seem to know a thing about early Christianity; The
Nicene council ws called specifically to suppress those who
questioned the nature of Christianity.
Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc.
The Dead Sea Scrolls never mention Christianity.
The Dead sea scrolls are not christian books of the bible... They actually
predate the fictional jesus by about 300 years or so.
The guesstimate is that though they predate Jesus/Joshua in part by 300
years (depending on which type of writing is questioned), they also
cover at least 68 C.E. years.
Ramona
Quote:
It does not require any superior knowledge or person to
interpret the word of God and its believers are not subject to any
restrictions as to what they read etc.
All of the things mentioned above demonstrate that Christianity is far
from being a "worship/control cults."
It certainly ahs been in the past.
It is all about control...
It has always been about control
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| Hatunen |
| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:25 pm |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:11:43 -0400, Ramona <atlramona@gmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: Hatunen wrote:
On 13 Sep 2005 05:51:18 -0700, "Rhidian"
Rhidian_Jowers@hotmail.com> wrote:
Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry.
You don't seem to know a thing about early Christianity; The
Nicene council ws called specifically to suppress those who
questioned the nature of Christianity.
Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc.
The Dead Sea Scrolls never mention Christianity.
The term Christianity would not have been used because it had not yet
been "coined." The scrolls do use the term, "the way" which was what
early christians did call themselves.
That's pretty vague. You're going to have to come up with a
stronger link than that. Can you cite the scroll "the way"
appears in; it might be a translational artifact.
Quote: At that time though, Jewry and
Christians (as we know the religion now) overlapped with the group known
as "the way" being merely a cult/sect of Judaism.
Hm. The Way was a cult group in Emporia, Kansas, when I lived
there. Lasted quite a long time, iddn't it/
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:55 pm |
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Hatunen wrote:
Quote: On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:11:43 -0400, Ramona <atlramona@gmail.com
wrote:
Hatunen wrote:
On 13 Sep 2005 05:51:18 -0700, "Rhidian"
Rhidian_Jowers@hotmail.com> wrote:
Classical Christianity teaches Christians to question their faith this
is demonstrated both in the bible and through Christian ministry.
You don't seem to know a thing about early Christianity; The
Nicene council ws called specifically to suppress those who
questioned the nature of Christianity.
Its
history dates back thousands of years as demonstrated by the Dead Sea
scrolls etc.
The Dead Sea Scrolls never mention Christianity.
The term Christianity would not have been used because it had not yet
been "coined." The scrolls do use the term, "the way" which was what
early christians did call themselves.
That's pretty vague.
You're going to have to come up with a
Quote: stronger link than that. Can you cite the scroll "the way"
appears in; it might be a translational artifact.
Here's a list of books you may want to read to get caught up.
http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/nazaebion.html#2
References
1. Armstrong, The First Christian: p68
Chadwick, The Early Church: p16
Conzelmann, Acts of the Apostles: p88
Guignebert, The Christ: p158
Haenchen, Acts of the Apostles: p367-368
Ludemann, Heretics: p39
Maccoby, The Mythmaker: p175
Pritz, Nazarene Jewish Christianity: p11,15n18
2. Maccoby, Revolution in Judea: p236
Pritz, Nazarene Jewish Christianity: p13
Schonfield, The Passover Plot: p199
3. Pritz, ibid.: p14-15
4. Guignebert, Jesus: p82-83
5. Pritz, op. cit.: p11-12
6. Guignebert, Jesus: p78-86
7. Finegan, Archeology of the New Testament: p46
Guignebert, Jesus: 82-83, 89
Wilson, Jesus the Evidence: p58
8. Asimov, Guide to the Bible: p801-802
Eisenmann, James the Brother of Jesus: p242
Guignebert, Jesus: p86-88
9. Pritz, op. cit.: p12
10. Schoeps, Jewish Christianity: p11 <---particularly great author
11. Eisenmann, James the Brother of Jesus: p242 (among others!)
Guignebert, Jesus: p87-88
12. Guignebert, Jesus: p86-89
13. F. Stanley Jones, Ebionites, in "Encyclopedia of Early
Christianity": p359
14. Chadwick, The Early Church: p23
Ludemann, Heretics: p42
15. Painter, Just James: p249
16. Schoeps, op. cit: p11
17. Ludemann, Heretics: p53
18. Eisenmann & Wise, Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered: p233-235
19. Eisenmann, James the Brother of Jesus: p599
Eisenmann & Wise, Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered: p33
20. Eisenmann, James the Brother of Jesus: 82, 161, 243
21. Pritz, op. cit.: p12
22. Metzger & Coogan, The Oxford Companion to the Bible: p12
Ramona
Quote:
At that time though, Jewry and
Christians (as we know the religion now) overlapped with the group known
as "the way" being merely a cult/sect of Judaism.
Hm. The Way was a cult group in Emporia, Kansas, when I lived
there. Lasted quite a long time, iddn't it/
That is a different sect, though we know where they derived the name.
It was a cheap trick attempting to be the original by using the
original name of what we now know as Christianity.
Quote:
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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