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Religion Forum Index » Christian Methodist Forum » What Do Christians Believe About God And The Trinity?...
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| Carl... |
 Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:51 pm |
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The following is an article by John Ankerberg & John Weldon explaining the
Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
What Do Christians Believe About God And The Trinity?
by Dr. John Ankerberg & Dr. John Weldon
The living God is not what the new religions claim He is, as if only in the
last century or so God had now chosen to reveal Himself "as He truly is" to
this or that group or person. God is not some unknowable, impersonal divine
essence, such that our own personalities ultimately become an illusion. Nor
does "He" or "It" or "She" manifest through our alleged "higher
consciousness" so that God and our true self are one. God is not the
universe itself nor is the universe His body (pantheism, panentheism). God
is not the originator of all religions (syncretism) or an eternally hidden
deity who is perpetually unknowable, unapproachable and indescribable
(mysticism). God is not unipersonal or monistic.
The Trinity is not a symbol of various religious, metaphysical or
psychological concepts, nor is the Trinity tritheistic (three gods) or exist
in three different modes or aspects (modalism). The doctrine of the Trinity
was never derived from ancient pagan religions.1 In fact, the only rational
explanation of the Trinity is divine revelation.
Among all religions that have ever existed, the Christian concept of God is
entirely unique, for in the totality of religious history, there is only one
concept of an infinite-personal triune God. While every religion fits one of
the preceding (or related) descriptions, no other religion has a Trinity.
Divine revelation accounts for our knowledge of the Trinity. Indeed, the
biblical concept of the Trinity is at once so unexpected and complex, and
yet so practical, that it could never have been invented by men in its
biblical formula. For example, only the existence of the biblical Trinity
logically explains the unity and diversity in creation. Only it explains
both the human personality and the many triune manifestations in nature (man
as body, soul, spirit; space as height, width, length; time as past,
present, future; matter as energy, motion, phenomena; family as man, woman,
offspring; and so on).2
In the following material we will document that the Bible teaches the
doctrine of the Trinity and therefore no other concept of God. It is
important to note here that the Bible teaches both monotheism and
trinitarianism. It teaches a monotheistic view - that there is only one true
God, and a trinitarian view - that this one true God exists eternally as
three Persons. This "triunity" of God was defended from earliest times as
Christian theologians and apologists carefully safeguarded both the unity of
God against tritheism and maintained the respective deity of the three
Persons of the Godhead. As Gregory of Nyssa stated in his letter to
Ablabius, "To say that there are three gods is wicked. Not to bear witness
to the deity of the Son and the Spirit is ungodly and absurd. Therefore one
God must be confessed by us according to the witness of Scripture, 'Hear
Israel, the Lord your God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4), even if the word 'deity'
extends through the holy trinity."3
There Is Only One True God
The Bible does not teach any form of tritheism or polytheism, as in the
Mormon faith, but that there is only one true God from all eternity. As
Jesus taught: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only
true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" (John 17:5).
The following scriptures declare there is only one God:
.. the only true God... (John 17:3)
.. there is no God but one (1 Cor. 8:4)
.. there is but one God, ... (1 Cor. 8:6)
For there is one God... (1 Tim. 2:5)
This is what the LORD says... "I am the first and I am the last; apart from
me there is no God" (Isa. 44:6)
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God (Isa.
45:5)
I am the LORD, and there is no other (Isa. 45:6)
I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me (Isa.
46:9)
God Is a Trinity or Triune
Simultaneously, this one true God has revealed that He is three Persons, or
centers of consciousness, within one Godhead. Because the concept cannot be
fully comprehended does not mean the doctrine is irrational or cannot be
accurately defined. A good definition of the Trinity is provided by noted
church historian Philip Schaff:
God is one in three persons or hypostases [distinct persons of the same
nature], each person expressing the whole fullness of the Godhead, with all
his attributes. The term persona is taken neither in the old sense of a mere
personation or form of manifestation (prosopon, face, mask), nor in the
modern sense of an independent, separate being or individual, but in a sense
which lies between these two conceptions, and thus avoids Sabellianism on
the one hand, and Tritheism on the other. [Sabellianism taught that God was
one person only who existed in three different forms or manifestations;
tritheism refers to a belief in three separate gods.] The divine persons are
in one another, and form a perpetual intercommunication and motion within
the divine essence. Each person has all the divine attributes which are
inherent in the divine essence, but each has also a characteristic
individuality or property, which is peculiar to the person, and can not be
communicated; the Father is unbegotten, the Son begotten, the Holy Ghost is
proceeding. In this Trinity there is no priority or posteriority of time, no
superiority or inferiority of rank, but the three persons are co-eternal and
coequal.4
The biblical doctrine of the Trinity is vital to understand because it
concerns who God is, which is essential for having a proper realization of
the nature of God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. To understand the Trinity
is to understand God as He has revealed Himself to be. To misunderstand the
Trinity is to fail to understand who God is.
This is important because if we are to worship God "in spirit and truth"
(John 4:24), as Jesus commanded, we must know and worship the one true God
as He really is. To fail to do this is to fail to know and worship God, and
this cannot bring Him glory. Thus, those who reject the Trinity by
definition deny the nature of God. Without a biblical theological
formulation about God, heretical views arise. This in turn can lead to
rejection of the one true God and the worship of a false God. And if the
Bible is clear on anything, it is clear that faith in a false God cannot
save people from their sins. Jesus Himself emphasized the importance of
having an accurate knowledge of God when He said, "This is eternal life:
that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have
sent" (John 17:3).
In his Christian Theology, Christian theologian Millard J. Erickson offers
six points that must be included in a proper understanding of the doctrine
of the Trinity (the following is the authors' paraphrase of Erickson's
points):
1. There is only one God
2. Each Person in the Godhead is equally deity.
3. The threeness and oneness of God constitute a paradox or an antinomy -
merely an apparent contradiction, not a genuine one. This is because God's
threeness and oneness do not exist in the same respect; that is, they are
not simultaneously affirming and denying the same thing at the same time and
in the same manner. God's oneness refers to the divine essence; His
threeness to the plurality of persons.
4. The Trinity is eternal - there have always been three Persons, each of
whom is eternally divine. One or more of the Persons did not come into being
at a point in time or at some point in time became divine. There has never
been any change in the essential divine nature of the triune God. God is,
and God will be what God has always been forever.
5. The function of one member in the Trinity may for a time be subordinate
to one or both of the other members, although this does not mean that that
member is in any way inferior in essence to the others. Each Person of the
Trinity has had, for a period of time, a particular function unique to
Himself. In other words, the particular function that is sometimes unique to
a given Person in the Trinity is only a temporary role exercised for a given
purpose. It does not represent a change in His status or essence. When the
second Person of the Trinity incarnated and became Jesus Christ, He did not
become less than the Father in essence, although He did become subordinate
to the Father functionally. In like manner, the Holy Spirit is now
subordinated to the ministry of the Son (John 14-16) and to the will of the
Father, but He is not less than they are. Certain examples may illustrate
this. A wife may have a subordinate role to a husband, but she is also his
equal. Equals in some business enterprise may elect one of their number to
serve as head or a chairperson for a period, without any change in rank.
During World War II, the highest ranking member of an aircraft, the pilot,
would nevertheless carefully subordinate his decisions to the bombardier, a
lower ranking officer.
6. Finally, the Trinity is incomprehensible. Even when we are in heaven and
fully redeemed, we will still not totally comprehend God, because it is
impossible that a finite creature could ever comprehend an infinite being.
Thus, "Those aspects of God which we never fully comprehend should be
regarded as mysteries that go beyond our reason rather than as paradoxes
which conflict with reason."5
Prior knowledge of the Trinity, especially in its theological formulation,
is not necessary for a person to be saved. But once saved, it is vital for
Christians to know the true nature of the God who has so graciously pardoned
them. This explains why the Church has always recognized the importance of a
proper understanding of God and maintained that those who reject the
scriptural view of God, as long as they do so, cannot be saved. Consider Dr.
Schaff's comments about the Athanasian Creed:
[It] begins and ends with the solemn declaration that the catholic
[universal] faith in the Trinity and the Incarnation is the indispensable
condition of salvation, and that those who reject it will be lost forever.
This anathema [divine curse], in its natural historical sense, is not merely
a solemn warning against the great danger of heresy, nor, on the other hand,
does it demand, as a condition of salvation, a full knowledge, and assent
to, the logical statement of the doctrines set forth (this would condemn the
great mass even of Christian believers); but it does mean to exclude from
heaven all who reject the divine truth therein taught. It requires everyone
who would be saved to believe in the only true and living God, Father, Son,
and Holy Ghost, one in essence, three in persons, and in one Jesus Christ,
very God and very man in one person.6
As Vladimir Lossky once put it boldly, "Between the Trinity and Hell there
lies no other choice."7 Only personal bias or ignorance can explain cultic
attempts to deny the biblical Trinity. It is significant that even some
Unitarians who reject the Trinity still confess it is a biblical teaching
based on "its obvious sense, its natural meaning" as found in Scripture.
These words of George E. Ellis, a nineteenth-century Unitarian leader,
illustrate the biases of anti-trinitarian groups and liberals who refuse to
accept the Trinity on personal, not biblical, grounds. Ellis confesses,
"Only that kind of ingenious, special, discriminative, and in candor I must
add, forced treatment, which it receives from us liberals can make the book
teach anything but Orthodoxy."8 No less an authority than the great
Princeton theologian B. B. Warfield pointed out that the doctrine of the
Trinity "is rather everywhere presupposed" in Scripture.9 This is, for
example, clearly demonstrated in Edward Bickersteth's fine work, The
Trinity.
Recommended Reading
Perhaps the best devotional text is Edward Bickersteth's classic, The
Trinity (Kregel, 1980, rpt). Notable recent titles include Peter Toon's Our
Triune God (Bridgepoint, 1996) and Millard J. Erickson's God in Three
Persons (Baker, 1995). Dr. Robert A. Morey's The Trinity: Evidence and
Issues (Grandville, MI: World Publ., 1996), is an extensive in-depth
analysis of all the biblical, philosophical, and historical issues relating
to the doctrine of the Trinity. He deals with epistemology, hermeneutics,
heresy, orthodoxy, liberalism, feminism, the Jesus Seminar, Islam, the
cults, the occult, early Jewish literature, the Dead Sea Scrolls and the
Apostolic Fathers, and he brings to light new information on the history and
origins of Arianism and Modalism. The chapter on the deity of Christ, "The
Son of God in the New Testament," is over 200 pages with 265-plus footnotes,
often with multiple references in each note. And a brief, popular treatment
can be found in our booklet Knowing the Truth About the Trinity.
Notes
1 See the discussion in our book Ready With an Answer.
2 See also Francis Schaeffer, He Is There and He Is Not Silent.
3 "Gregory of Nyssa Ablabius," in William G. Rusch, trans. and ed., The
Trinitarian Controversy (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1980), pp. 149,
151-52.
4 Philip Schaff, ed., rev. by David S. Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom:
With a History and Critical Notes-Vol. 1: The History of the Creeds (Grand
Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1983). The Greek term was transliterated by
the authors.
5 Millard J. Erickson, Christian Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1986,
one vol. edition), pp. 337-338.
6 Schaff, ed., Creed, pp. 39-40.
7 Vladimir Lossky, The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church (1957), p.
66.
8 In E. Calvin Beisner, God in Three Persons (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale, 1984),
p. 25.
9 Ibid., p. 26. |
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| Dixe Hollins... |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:51 pm |
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| Carl... |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:48 pm |
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| Raymond... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:36 am |
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On May 19, 9:42 am, "Lars Wilson" <siaxa... at (no spam) embarqmail.com> wrote:
Quote: "Carl" <sai... at (no spam) nettally.com> wrote in message
news:g0q4sk$9el$1 at (no spam) news.utelfla.com...> The following is an article by John Ankerberg & John Weldon explaining the
Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
The ONLY direct reference in the Bible to the "Holy Trinity" is as part of
the label of the 666-Beast, which represents trinity-believing Christendom..
"Three gods, yet one god" is the same as 666: three numbers, yet one number.
You are so off base here, I do not find Holy Trinity in the Bible any
place, and your 666 comment only shows me, just how ignorant people
can get, the doctrine right or wrong that is called the Trinity never
shows Three gods no not once. Then 666 is never one number it is
always three numbers, and has nothing to do with the doctrine of the
Trinity. Number plus number place number is three numbers. The
trinity is more like 111 or one plus one, plus one is ONE. It is a
wonder when one reads these newsgroups how people try to teach false
doctrines and think people are so quibble it is an evasion of the
point of an argument by raising irrelevant distinctions or objections
to believe it.
Quote: The Bible calls Jesus Christ God's SON so many times it is clear there is no
trinity. Everybody knows a SON is not equal to a father and while the
Father can be said to have no beginning, you cannot say that about the son..
What is clear is that the SON is the name of the body, the flesh the
son of Mary, as well as the Son of God, God became man and lived with
people then returned to Heaven and will come again. It is clear such
has nothing to do with the Trinity. Since the term is not even found
in the Bible and is only a doctrine made hundreds of years after the
Bible was complied. EVERYBODY KNOWS NO SUCH THING! The Son the body
was born and has a date of birth which is not 25 of December, as GOD
JESUS has no beginning as He is God as well as the Son of God. Then
if you would read the doctrine of the Orthodox teaching of the
doctrine of the Trinity, you would know that. Ignorants is no excuse
these days as such teachings are on record and can be found on the
Internet.
Quote: Anyway, I found it interesting that Sir Isaac Newton didn't believe in the
trinity!! He was a follower of Arian, who also did not believe in the
trinity.
Who would use Isaac Newton for doctrine? He was not a follower of
Arian since that person died thousand years before he was born. There
are a lot of people that do not believe in God and lots of people do
not accept the teachings of Christians or Buddha or Mohammad do you
also follow and believe all of them are correct, while some do believe
in a God others do not? Your proof only really show how limited your
support base is.
Quote: Ironically, in true practice among Catholics, the Trinity is God, Mary and
Christ, only there are more images of the pagan Mother Goddess substitute as
Mary than I think of either Jesus and certainly of God himself, which I
don't think there is any real image. Mary loosely links with Holy Spirit
to become the third member of the pagan trinity.
Where do you get your information from, The Trinity is never MARY!
That is a teaching that people now are trying to make the Catholic
accept it never was and still is fiction. Mary is never seen as a
Goddess. It does not matter what you think, it is what you can prove
by facts, not imagination. Then you may have a pagan trinity, since
even the Hindus have such a pagan trinity god.with three heads on one
body. It is not Christian and your remarks are not either.
Quote:
The fact that the Christendom beast is labelled with the trinity formula of
666 proves it would be a very, very profound and dominant false doctrine in
the world of Christendom and it certainly is.
Your made believe facts are not FACTs simple as that. Just because
you make a statement about the 666 is only in your mind and is not a
teaching of the Trinity or the Bible, in the way you want it to be.
YES the number six, six, six is found in the bible it is not the way
you present it here.
Quote: So the "Holy Trinity" is referenced in the Bible after all, it is recognized
as a dominant false teaching among Christendom and becomes part of the
number of the beast: 666.
On and on making statements that are not true. A few Billion people
today accept the doctrine of the Trinity and none see it as the
dominant false teaching among themselves. What number do you have that
follow your teachings a hundred or a thousand? A number so small it
is like dust, and sure has nothing to do with the anti-Christ that 666
number is "HIS" and has nothing to do with your ideas.
Quote: In the meantime, there is no way a Father and Son can be said to be equal,
so the trinity doctrine is rejected by many others based on that.
Do you have a degree in Theology earned in the class room, or is this
ego and you think your word means something because of your lack of
knowledge?
Lets look at the term equal and what the Bible does say about that
word in relationship to Jesus. Then just because a few million
atheist reject God and the doctrines of the Church, means NOTHING,
except they do not believe and someday when they do meet God in the
Judgment day, they will see Jesus and find out how mislead they been,
maybe because of false teachers.
Or is your name Liars, as it is when you take yourself out of the
word, the "I" makes it Lars, when it should be Lairs, and that is the
name of the Devil and who the number 666 and belong to.
In Christ Jesus,
Raymond |
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| Lars Wilson... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:42 am |
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Guest
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"Carl" <saints at (no spam) nettally.com> wrote in message
news:g0q4sk$9el$1 at (no spam) news.utelfla.com...
Quote: The following is an article by John Ankerberg & John Weldon explaining the
Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
The ONLY direct reference in the Bible to the "Holy Trinity" is as part of
the label of the 666-Beast, which represents trinity-believing Christendom.
"Three gods, yet one god" is the same as 666: three numbers, yet one number.
The Bible calls Jesus Christ God's SON so many times it is clear there is no
trinity. Everybody knows a SON is not equal to a father and while the
Father can be said to have no beginning, you cannot say that about the son.
Anyway, I found it interesting that Sir Isaac Newton didn't believe in the
trinity!! He was a follower of Arian, who also did not believe in the
trinity.
Ironically, in true practice among Catholics, the Trinity is God, Mary and
Christ, only there are more images of the pagan Mother Goddess substitute as
Mary than I think of either Jesus and certainly of God himself, which I
don't think there is any real image. Mary loosely links with Holy Spirit
to become the third member of the pagan trinity.
The fact that the Christendom beast is labelled with the trinity formula of
666 proves it would be a very, very profound and dominant false doctrine in
the world of Christendom and it certainly is.
So the "Holy Trinity" is referenced in the Bible after all, it is recognized
as a dominant false teaching among Christendom and becomes part of the
number of the beast: 666.
In the meantime, there is no way a Father and Son can be said to be equal,
so the trinity doctrine is rejected by many others based on that.
Lars |
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| John Fraser... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:17 am |
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Guest
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"Lars Wilson" <siaxares at (no spam) embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZOudncLlrrFPHqzVnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
Quote:
"Carl" <saints at (no spam) nettally.com> wrote in message
news:g0q4sk$9el$1 at (no spam) news.utelfla.com...
The following is an article by John Ankerberg & John Weldon explaining
the Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
The ONLY direct reference in the Bible to the "Holy Trinity" is as part of
the label of the 666-Beast, which represents trinity-believing
Christendom. "Three gods, yet one god" is the same as 666: three numbers,
yet one number.
The Bible calls Jesus Christ God's SON so many times it is clear there is
no trinity. Everybody knows a SON is not equal to a father and while the
Father can be said to have no beginning, you cannot say that about the
son.
Anyway, I found it interesting that Sir Isaac Newton didn't believe in the
trinity!! He was a follower of Arian, who also did not believe in the
trinity.
Ironically, in true practice among Catholics, the Trinity is God, Mary and
Christ, only there are more images of the pagan Mother Goddess substitute
as Mary than I think of either Jesus and certainly of God himself, which I
don't think there is any real image. Mary loosely links with Holy Spirit
to become the third member of the pagan trinity.
The fact that the Christendom beast is labelled with the trinity formula
of 666 proves it would be a very, very profound and dominant false
doctrine in the world of Christendom and it certainly is.
So the "Holy Trinity" is referenced in the Bible after all, it is
recognized as a dominant false teaching among Christendom and becomes part
of the number of the beast: 666.
In the meantime, there is no way a Father and Son can be said to be equal,
so the trinity doctrine is rejected by many others based on that.
Lars
Perhaps. Well, I suppose a simple question a scientist should be able
to easily answer is if hydrogen burns and oxygen supports combustion, adding
water should make for a huge fire. Instead, it's most often used to put one
out. Why?
Something tells me that like water, God is a bit more complex than we
appreciate.
Cheers,
John |
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| John Fraser... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:19 am |
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Guest
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"Raymond" <rwknapp at (no spam) aim.com> wrote in message
news:170677ec-34b0-4544-a9f8-f07199f752e9 at (no spam) x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On May 19, 9:42 am, "Lars Wilson" <siaxa... at (no spam) embarqmail.com> wrote:
Quote: "Carl" <sai... at (no spam) nettally.com> wrote in message
news:g0q4sk$9el$1 at (no spam) news.utelfla.com...> The following is an article by John
Ankerberg & John Weldon explaining the
Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
The ONLY direct reference in the Bible to the "Holy Trinity" is as part of
the label of the 666-Beast, which represents trinity-believing
Christendom.
"Three gods, yet one god" is the same as 666: three numbers, yet one
number.
You are so off base here, I do not find Holy Trinity in the Bible any
place, and your 666 comment only shows me, just how ignorant people
can get, the doctrine right or wrong that is called the Trinity never
shows Three gods no not once. Then 666 is never one number it is
always three numbers, and has nothing to do with the doctrine of the
Trinity. Number plus number place number is three numbers. The
trinity is more like 111 or one plus one, plus one is ONE. It is a
wonder when one reads these newsgroups how people try to teach false
doctrines and think people are so quibble it is an evasion of the
point of an argument by raising irrelevant distinctions or objections
to believe it.
Quote: The Bible calls Jesus Christ God's SON so many times it is clear there is
no
trinity. Everybody knows a SON is not equal to a father and while the
Father can be said to have no beginning, you cannot say that about the
son.
What is clear is that the SON is the name of the body, the flesh the
son of Mary, as well as the Son of God, God became man and lived with
people then returned to Heaven and will come again. It is clear such
has nothing to do with the Trinity. Since the term is not even found
in the Bible and is only a doctrine made hundreds of years after the
Bible was complied. EVERYBODY KNOWS NO SUCH THING! The Son the body
was born and has a date of birth which is not 25 of December, as GOD
JESUS has no beginning as He is God as well as the Son of God. Then
if you would read the doctrine of the Orthodox teaching of the
doctrine of the Trinity, you would know that. Ignorants is no excuse
these days as such teachings are on record and can be found on the
Internet.
Quote: Anyway, I found it interesting that Sir Isaac Newton didn't believe in the
trinity!! He was a follower of Arian, who also did not believe in the
trinity.
Who would use Isaac Newton for doctrine? He was not a follower of
Arian since that person died thousand years before he was born. There
are a lot of people that do not believe in God and lots of people do
not accept the teachings of Christians or Buddha or Mohammad do you
also follow and believe all of them are correct, while some do believe
in a God others do not? Your proof only really show how limited your
support base is.
Quote: Ironically, in true practice among Catholics, the Trinity is God, Mary and
Christ, only there are more images of the pagan Mother Goddess substitute
as
Mary than I think of either Jesus and certainly of God himself, which I
don't think there is any real image. Mary loosely links with Holy Spirit
to become the third member of the pagan trinity.
Where do you get your information from, The Trinity is never MARY!
That is a teaching that people now are trying to make the Catholic
accept it never was and still is fiction. Mary is never seen as a
Goddess. It does not matter what you think, it is what you can prove
by facts, not imagination. Then you may have a pagan trinity, since
even the Hindus have such a pagan trinity god.with three heads on one
body. It is not Christian and your remarks are not either.
Quote:
The fact that the Christendom beast is labelled with the trinity formula
of
666 proves it would be a very, very profound and dominant false doctrine
in
the world of Christendom and it certainly is.
Your made believe facts are not FACTs simple as that. Just because
you make a statement about the 666 is only in your mind and is not a
teaching of the Trinity or the Bible, in the way you want it to be.
YES the number six, six, six is found in the bible it is not the way
you present it here.
Quote: So the "Holy Trinity" is referenced in the Bible after all, it is
recognized
as a dominant false teaching among Christendom and becomes part of the
number of the beast: 666.
On and on making statements that are not true. A few Billion people
today accept the doctrine of the Trinity and none see it as the
dominant false teaching among themselves. What number do you have that
follow your teachings a hundred or a thousand? A number so small it
is like dust, and sure has nothing to do with the anti-Christ that 666
number is "HIS" and has nothing to do with your ideas.
Quote: In the meantime, there is no way a Father and Son can be said to be equal,
so the trinity doctrine is rejected by many others based on that.
Do you have a degree in Theology earned in the class room, or is this
ego and you think your word means something because of your lack of
knowledge?
Lets look at the term equal and what the Bible does say about that
word in relationship to Jesus. Then just because a few million
atheist reject God and the doctrines of the Church, means NOTHING,
except they do not believe and someday when they do meet God in the
Judgment day, they will see Jesus and find out how mislead they been,
maybe because of false teachers.
Or is your name Liars, as it is when you take yourself out of the
word, the "I" makes it Lars, when it should be Lairs, and that is the
name of the Devil and who the number 666 and belong to.
In Christ Jesus,
Raymond
Ray, the man just said the Trinity didn't come from God. Normally you
would agree. Why not now?
Cheers,
John |
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| Raymond... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:07 pm |
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Guest
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On May 19, 11:19 am, "John Fraser" <jfra... at (no spam) ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
Quote: "Raymond" <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote in message
news:170677ec-34b0-4544-a9f8-f07199f752e9 at (no spam) x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On May 19, 9:42 am, "Lars Wilson" <siaxa... at (no spam) embarqmail.com> wrote:
"Carl" <sai... at (no spam) nettally.com> wrote in message
news:g0q4sk$9el$1 at (no spam) news.utelfla.com...> The following is an article by John
Ankerberg & John Weldon explaining the
Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
The ONLY direct reference in the Bible to the "Holy Trinity" is as part of
the label of the 666-Beast, which represents trinity-believing
Christendom.
"Three gods, yet one god" is the same as 666: three numbers, yet one
number.
You are so off base here, I do not find Holy Trinity in the Bible any
place, and your 666 comment only shows me, just how ignorant people
can get, the doctrine right or wrong that is called the Trinity never
shows Three gods no not once. Then 666 is never one number it is
always three numbers, and has nothing to do with the doctrine of the
Trinity. Number plus number place number is three numbers. The
trinity is more like 111 or one plus one, plus one is ONE. It is a
wonder when one reads these newsgroups how people try to teach false
doctrines and think people are so quibble it is an evasion of the
point of an argument by raising irrelevant distinctions or objections
to believe it.
The Bible calls Jesus Christ God's SON so many times it is clear there is
no
trinity. Everybody knows a SON is not equal to a father and while the
Father can be said to have no beginning, you cannot say that about the
son.
What is clear is that the SON is the name of the body, the flesh the
son of Mary, as well as the Son of God, God became man and lived with
people then returned to Heaven and will come again. It is clear such
has nothing to do with the Trinity. Since the term is not even found
in the Bible and is only a doctrine made hundreds of years after the
Bible was complied. EVERYBODY KNOWS NO SUCH THING! The Son the body
was born and has a date of birth which is not 25 of December, as GOD
JESUS has no beginning as He is God as well as the Son of God. Then
if you would read the doctrine of the Orthodox teaching of the
doctrine of the Trinity, you would know that. Ignorants is no excuse
these days as such teachings are on record and can be found on the
Internet.
Anyway, I found it interesting that Sir Isaac Newton didn't believe in the
trinity!! He was a follower of Arian, who also did not believe in the
trinity.
Who would use Isaac Newton for doctrine? He was not a follower of
Arian since that person died thousand years before he was born. There
are a lot of people that do not believe in God and lots of people do
not accept the teachings of Christians or Buddha or Mohammad do you
also follow and believe all of them are correct, while some do believe
in a God others do not? Your proof only really show how limited your
support base is.
Ironically, in true practice among Catholics, the Trinity is God, Mary and
Christ, only there are more images of the pagan Mother Goddess substitute
as
Mary than I think of either Jesus and certainly of God himself, which I
don't think there is any real image. Mary loosely links with Holy Spirit
to become the third member of the pagan trinity.
Where do you get your information from, The Trinity is never MARY!
That is a teaching that people now are trying to make the Catholic
accept it never was and still is fiction. Mary is never seen as a
Goddess. It does not matter what you think, it is what you can prove
by facts, not imagination. Then you may have a pagan trinity, since
even the Hindus have such a pagan trinity god.with three heads on one
body. It is not Christian and your remarks are not either.
The fact that the Christendom beast is labelled with the trinity formula
of
666 proves it would be a very, very profound and dominant false doctrine
in
the world of Christendom and it certainly is.
Your made believe facts are not FACTs simple as that. Just because
you make a statement about the 666 is only in your mind and is not a
teaching of the Trinity or the Bible, in the way you want it to be.
YES the number six, six, six is found in the bible it is not the way
you present it here.
So the "Holy Trinity" is referenced in the Bible after all, it is
recognized
as a dominant false teaching among Christendom and becomes part of the
number of the beast: 666.
On and on making statements that are not true. A few Billion people
today accept the doctrine of the Trinity and none see it as the
dominant false teaching among themselves. What number do you have that
follow your teachings a hundred or a thousand? A number so small it
is like dust, and sure has nothing to do with the anti-Christ that 666
number is "HIS" and has nothing to do with your ideas.
In the meantime, there is no way a Father and Son can be said to be equal,
so the trinity doctrine is rejected by many others based on that.
Do you have a degree in Theology earned in the class room, or is this
ego and you think your word means something because of your lack of
knowledge?
Lets look at the term equal and what the Bible does say about that
word in relationship to Jesus. Then just because a few million
atheist reject God and the doctrines of the Church, means NOTHING,
except they do not believe and someday when they do meet God in the
Judgment day, they will see Jesus and find out how mislead they been,
maybe because of false teachers.
Lars
Or is your name Liars, as it is when you take yourself out of the
word, the "I" makes it Lars, when it should be Lairs, and that is the
name of the Devil and who the number 666 and belong to.
In Christ Jesus,
Raymond
Ray, the man just said the Trinity didn't come from God. Normally you
would agree. Why not now?
He said a lot more then just that, he is saying the doctrine is the
666 and I would not agree with that, as it is not truth.
Just because a demon knows who Jesus is and the power Jesus has over
them, does not mean I agree with demons. His doctrine that he calls
the Trinity is not the doctrine of the Trinity and I have studied that
doctrine from many viewpoints and teachings. Such as the orthodox,
Catholic, protestant, independents, as well as cults and other
religions that do have a form of a trinity god.
If one is using false teachings and trying to impose that on others
that do have and do believe the doctrine of the Trinity from their
church view, I will support the teaching from their view, as I can
explain why one does believe such a doctrine. I cannot support a
person that has made false statements of the teaching just because I
do not agree with the doctrine held by some church group.
Same with the Sabbath day teachings, I can argue for or against it,
but in the end both replies must have some foundation that is common
and seems to support them. This 666 story presented here, is not
acceptable. It is surely, not what any Christian that loves Jesus
would ever say or believe. Trinity people are not anti-Christ they
are pro-Christ their view of Christ may not be the same, but they are
not against Christ as the 666 would be.
Cheers,
Raymond |
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| Back to top |
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| John Fraser... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:38 pm |
|
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Guest
|
"Raymond" <rwknapp at (no spam) aim.com> wrote in message
news:b92ba7c1-0474-4aa5-b07d-416ed7aee264 at (no spam) 27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On May 19, 11:19 am, "John Fraser" <jfra... at (no spam) ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
Quote: "Raymond" <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote in message
news:170677ec-34b0-4544-a9f8-f07199f752e9 at (no spam) x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On May 19, 9:42 am, "Lars Wilson" <siaxa... at (no spam) embarqmail.com> wrote:
"Carl" <sai... at (no spam) nettally.com> wrote in message
news:g0q4sk$9el$1 at (no spam) news.utelfla.com...> The following is an article by
John
Ankerberg & John Weldon explaining the
Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
The ONLY direct reference in the Bible to the "Holy Trinity" is as part
of
the label of the 666-Beast, which represents trinity-believing
Christendom.
"Three gods, yet one god" is the same as 666: three numbers, yet one
number.
You are so off base here, I do not find Holy Trinity in the Bible any
place, and your 666 comment only shows me, just how ignorant people
can get, the doctrine right or wrong that is called the Trinity never
shows Three gods no not once. Then 666 is never one number it is
always three numbers, and has nothing to do with the doctrine of the
Trinity. Number plus number place number is three numbers. The
trinity is more like 111 or one plus one, plus one is ONE. It is a
wonder when one reads these newsgroups how people try to teach false
doctrines and think people are so quibble it is an evasion of the
point of an argument by raising irrelevant distinctions or objections
to believe it.
The Bible calls Jesus Christ God's SON so many times it is clear there
is
no
trinity. Everybody knows a SON is not equal to a father and while the
Father can be said to have no beginning, you cannot say that about the
son.
What is clear is that the SON is the name of the body, the flesh the
son of Mary, as well as the Son of God, God became man and lived with
people then returned to Heaven and will come again. It is clear such
has nothing to do with the Trinity. Since the term is not even found
in the Bible and is only a doctrine made hundreds of years after the
Bible was complied. EVERYBODY KNOWS NO SUCH THING! The Son the body
was born and has a date of birth which is not 25 of December, as GOD
JESUS has no beginning as He is God as well as the Son of God. Then
if you would read the doctrine of the Orthodox teaching of the
doctrine of the Trinity, you would know that. Ignorants is no excuse
these days as such teachings are on record and can be found on the
Internet.
Anyway, I found it interesting that Sir Isaac Newton didn't believe in
the
trinity!! He was a follower of Arian, who also did not believe in the
trinity.
Who would use Isaac Newton for doctrine? He was not a follower of
Arian since that person died thousand years before he was born. There
are a lot of people that do not believe in God and lots of people do
not accept the teachings of Christians or Buddha or Mohammad do you
also follow and believe all of them are correct, while some do believe
in a God others do not? Your proof only really show how limited your
support base is.
Ironically, in true practice among Catholics, the Trinity is God, Mary
and
Christ, only there are more images of the pagan Mother Goddess
substitute
as
Mary than I think of either Jesus and certainly of God himself, which I
don't think there is any real image. Mary loosely links with Holy Spirit
to become the third member of the pagan trinity.
Where do you get your information from, The Trinity is never MARY!
That is a teaching that people now are trying to make the Catholic
accept it never was and still is fiction. Mary is never seen as a
Goddess. It does not matter what you think, it is what you can prove
by facts, not imagination. Then you may have a pagan trinity, since
even the Hindus have such a pagan trinity god.with three heads on one
body. It is not Christian and your remarks are not either.
The fact that the Christendom beast is labelled with the trinity formula
of
666 proves it would be a very, very profound and dominant false doctrine
in
the world of Christendom and it certainly is.
Your made believe facts are not FACTs simple as that. Just because
you make a statement about the 666 is only in your mind and is not a
teaching of the Trinity or the Bible, in the way you want it to be.
YES the number six, six, six is found in the bible it is not the way
you present it here.
So the "Holy Trinity" is referenced in the Bible after all, it is
recognized
as a dominant false teaching among Christendom and becomes part of the
number of the beast: 666.
On and on making statements that are not true. A few Billion people
today accept the doctrine of the Trinity and none see it as the
dominant false teaching among themselves. What number do you have that
follow your teachings a hundred or a thousand? A number so small it
is like dust, and sure has nothing to do with the anti-Christ that 666
number is "HIS" and has nothing to do with your ideas.
In the meantime, there is no way a Father and Son can be said to be
equal,
so the trinity doctrine is rejected by many others based on that.
Do you have a degree in Theology earned in the class room, or is this
ego and you think your word means something because of your lack of
knowledge?
Lets look at the term equal and what the Bible does say about that
word in relationship to Jesus. Then just because a few million
atheist reject God and the doctrines of the Church, means NOTHING,
except they do not believe and someday when they do meet God in the
Judgment day, they will see Jesus and find out how mislead they been,
maybe because of false teachers.
Lars
Or is your name Liars, as it is when you take yourself out of the
word, the "I" makes it Lars, when it should be Lairs, and that is the
name of the Devil and who the number 666 and belong to.
In Christ Jesus,
Raymond
Ray, the man just said the Trinity didn't come from God. Normally you
would agree. Why not now?
He said a lot more then just that, he is saying the doctrine is the
666 and I would not agree with that, as it is not truth.
Just because a demon knows who Jesus is and the power Jesus has over
them, does not mean I agree with demons. His doctrine that he calls
the Trinity is not the doctrine of the Trinity and I have studied that
doctrine from many viewpoints and teachings. Such as the orthodox,
Catholic, protestant, independents, as well as cults and other
religions that do have a form of a trinity god.
If one is using false teachings and trying to impose that on others
that do have and do believe the doctrine of the Trinity from their
church view, I will support the teaching from their view, as I can
explain why one does believe such a doctrine. I cannot support a
person that has made false statements of the teaching just because I
do not agree with the doctrine held by some church group.
Same with the Sabbath day teachings, I can argue for or against it,
but in the end both replies must have some foundation that is common
and seems to support them. This 666 story presented here, is not
acceptable. It is surely, not what any Christian that loves Jesus
would ever say or believe. Trinity people are not anti-Christ they
are pro-Christ their view of Christ may not be the same, but they are
not against Christ as the 666 would be.
Cheers,
Raymond
Point taken.
Cheers,
John |
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