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1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:18 pm
 
No-one is commanded to believe in such a doctrine of men [ie, the trinity]
which was not even recognised as a dogma of the church until the 4th
Century.

Yet we have a commandment of Christ given through God ordained Paul, that
forbids women speaking and preaching in the churches, which is blatantly
ignored merely to please and pacify the congregations of the past 20-30
years and no-one of the trinitarian brigade bats an eyelid.

What a hypocritical travesty!

Jeff...
"As in all the churches of God's holy people, 34 the women must keep silent.
They don't have the right to speak.......It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church......37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:42 am
 
On Oct 16, 3:18 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
No-one is commanded to believe in such a doctrine of men [ie, the trinity]
which was not even recognised as a dogma of the  church until the 4th
Century.

Yet we have a commandment of Christ given through God ordained Paul, that
forbids women speaking and preaching in the churches, which is blatantly
ignored merely to please and pacify the congregations of the past 20-30
years and no-one of the trinitarian brigade bats an eyelid.

What a hypocritical travesty!

You need to get saved, the bible shows woman have a very important
part in the ministry, and Paul was addressing one church in one place,
and his ideas does not over rule the rest of the Bible. Your
teachings are evil and ignorant, you mock the trinity as a doctrine of
men, and then go and teach a doctrine of the man Paul. Which shows
you are not full of the Holy Spirit and need to let God into your
life. It is so sad to find people still in such doctrines of men, and
then select which ones they want and what ones they can tell others is
wrong.

May God forgive you and save you.

Raymond
Quote:

Jeff...
"As in all the churches of God's holy people, 34 the women must keep silent.
They don't have the right to speak.......It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church......37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)

 
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:19 pm
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13d80348-1438-466d-bf4b-3e57bf8c70fb at (no spam) k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 16, 3:18 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
No-one is commanded to believe in such a doctrine of men [ie, the trinity]
which was not even recognised as a dogma of the church until the 4th
Century.

Yet we have a commandment of Christ given through God ordained Paul, that
forbids women speaking and preaching in the churches, which is blatantly
ignored merely to please and pacify the congregations of the past 20-30
years and no-one of the trinitarian brigade bats an eyelid.

What a hypocritical travesty!

~ You need to get saved, the bible shows woman have a very important
~ part in the ministry, and Paul was addressing one church in one place,

No he wasn't,
"I've sent Timothy to you to help you remember my Christian way of
life as I teach it everywhere in every church."
1 Cor 4:17 (GW)

Jeff...
 
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:17 pm
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b021202a-e9cc-4ccc-af15-97fbb2de84b5 at (no spam) i5g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 20, 6:19 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:13d80348-1438-466d-bf4b-3e57bf8c70fb at (no spam) k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 16, 3:18 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"

~ You need to get saved, the bible shows woman have a very important
~ part in the ministry,

Not in Paul's teaching which had the full approval of Christ.

Quote:
and Paul was addressing one church in one place,

No he wasn't,
"I've sent Timothy to you to help you remember my Christian way of
life as I teach it everywhere in every church."
1 Cor 4:17 (GW)

~ I say he was.

Well he wasn't, like it or.
"2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified
in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with ALL that in EVERY PLACE call upon
the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:" 1 Cor 1:1-2 (KJV)

So Christ's command for women to remain silent in the churches stands in all
churches for all centuries.
"As in all the churches of God's holy people, 34 the women must keep silent.
They don't have the right to speak.......It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church......37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)
Ah!...so now the pointed question is.... are you spiritual enough to agree?

Then we have more Inspired instructions for the silence of women when being
taught God's Word.
This is what is proper for women who claim to have reverence for God.
"11 A woman must learn in silence, in keeping with her position. 12 I don't
allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should
be quiet. 13 After all, Adam was formed first, then Eve." 1 Tim 2:10-13 (GW)
Thus [uncovered and unshaven] women have no right at all to be either
speaking/preaching or leading the assemblies of God in worship or
exhortation.
HTH.

Jeff...
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:30 am
 
On Oct 23, 4:17 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:b021202a-e9cc-4ccc-af15-97fbb2de84b5 at (no spam) i5g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 20, 6:19 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"

broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:13d80348-1438-466d-bf4b-3e57bf8c70fb at (no spam) k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 16, 3:18 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
~ You need to get saved, the bible shows woman have a very important
~ part in the ministry,

Not in Paul's teaching which had the full approval of Christ.

Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once and let him know that Jesus teachings was what Paul had to
obey and follow. The rest is nice for you to say, but it is not in
the bible. Paul had a problem with his wife, and we do not hear
anymore of her, no wonder he did not like women to talk, his wife most
likely rejected Christ, when Paul rejected the Law and the Old
Testament form of salvation.

Quote:

and Paul was addressing one church in one place,

No he wasn't,
"I've sent Timothy to you to help you remember my Christian way of
life as I teach it everywhere in every church."
1 Cor 4:17 (GW)

~ I say he was.

Well he wasn't, like it or.

I like it and he wasn't, note that it is Church, not churches.

Quote:
"2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified
in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with ALL that in EVERY PLACE call upon
the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:" 1 Cor 1:1-2 (KJV)

That verse supports my view not yours.

Quote:

So Christ's command for women to remain silent in the churches stands in all
churches for all centuries.

If you are calling Paul as Christ, you are in deep trouble, Christ
told the women to speak and Mary also with other ladies were the first
to speak and preach that Jesus was alive, and it was Jesus that went
to Mary and the sisters after He rose from the dead, not to any man.
Jesus spoke and told the woman to go and preach it to the man, then
they came and seen that Jesus was alive.

Quote:
"As in all the churches of God's holy people, 34 the women must keep silent.
They don't have the right to speak.......It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church......37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)

Before Paul open his mouth with such a foolish rule, Jesus already had
the woman preaching and prophesying etc. I sure do not need to
acknowledge such, His word was to a few woman and like his wife most
of laughed at it. Women in the Church are doing the job that lazy man
won't, and if it was not for the women doing the job of the men, there
be a lot fewer Churches for the men to pat themselves on the back in.

Quote:
Ah!...so now the pointed question is.... are you spiritual enough to agree?

I am spiritual enough to agree with what God, the Lord Jesus said and
do such. it seems you are not spiritual enough agree that what I said
is correct. No question, it seems your not.

Such foolish questions you seem to post, it may go over where people
do not study the Bible or are not followers of Jesus as their LORD,
but not with the educated and them that are truly spiritual. I also
note here, you did not reply to the verses I did post about God
blessing woman, seem you want to hide what would show your really
wrong, and the old boys you hang around could toss you out of the
church.

Quote:
Then we have more Inspired instructions for the silence of women when being
taught God's Word.
 This is what is proper for women who claim to have reverence for God.
"11 A woman must learn in silence, in keeping with her position. 12 I don't
allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should
be quiet. 13 After all, Adam was formed first, then Eve." 1 Tim 2:10-13 (GW)
Thus [uncovered and unshaven] women have no right at all to be either
speaking/preaching or leading the assemblies of God in worship or
exhortation.
HTH.

You have no more inspired instructions you, We can say it is proper
for all men also to keep silence when learning the bible. Everyone to
be silence, then the woman can preach and teach all they want to bring
people to Salvation then the only restriction was not to have
authority over a man, note again not over the MEN. Still singular.
So if we use verse 13 woman with their head covered and not unshaven
do have the right to do all what you refuse them to do. We have one
dead church if the man are the only one that lead worship.

Then where did you get this (GW) version from, the real bible does
not say such. 1 Tim 2:8-15

8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy
hands, without wrath and doubting; 9 in like manner also, that the
women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and
moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly
clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with
good works. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man,
but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And
Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into
transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if
they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
NKJV

Do not add to the Varese that is not there that can be seen as sinful
and making a false statement also called a lie.

Dr. R. Knapp
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:43 pm
 
On Oct 25, 3:52 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:b3ab3edf-1498-474e-8a53-30a2b78f4c15 at (no spam) e14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 23, 4:17 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"

broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:b021202a-e9cc-4ccc-af15-97fbb2de84b5 at (no spam) i5g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 20, 6:19 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"

broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:13d80348-1438-466d-bf4b-3e57bf8c70fb at (no spam) k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 16, 3:18 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
~ You need to get saved, the bible shows woman have a very important
~ part in the ministry,

Not in Paul's teaching which had the full approval of Christ.
Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once

He spoke to him on a number of occasions throughout his journeys and times
in jail.
Another time before he was about to be shipwrecked.

This is what Christ had to say about Paul.
"15 The Lord told Ananias, "Go! I've chosen this man to bring my name to
nations, to kings, and to the people of Israel. 16 I'll show him how much he
has to suffer for the sake of my name."

Unless you believe Paul and Ananias is one and the same, God did not
speak to Paul it was all done by Ananias and what he said the Lord
said.
Quote:

17 Ananias left and entered Judas' house. After he placed his hands on Saul,
Ananias said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way
to Damascus, sent me to you. He wants you to see again and to be filled with
the Holy Spirit."
18 Immediately, something like fish scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he
could see again. Then Saul stood up and was baptized." Acts 9:15-18 (GW)

BTW...Have you been baptised after coming to a belief in Christ or were you
christened as an unbelieving baby?

What has this BTW to do with this, A baby has no understanding and is
too young to remember or believe in much till long a long time
afterwoods. My Mom and Dad had me christened and I was no asked for
my approval, and I sure did not deny Christ as a baby, I was too young
to know such matters. So according to church, I was set aside to
serve God at that time and when I did get to the age to make my own
confession and belief in Jesus Christ, I did just that.


Quote:
Well he wasn't, like it or.
I like it and he wasn't, note that it is Church, not churches.

Notice the next line...
"With ALL that in EVERY PLACE call upon
the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"

Yes look in places where He called as he was a minister, had nothing
to do with woman but the name of Jesus sure does and any place where
woman that are unlearned have married and have learned husband they
ask their own husband for an answer. Remember in those days woman
were not educated and were about the same as a slave, few knew what
the Torah said. No were did Paul say God said to do this or that
about the problem in that church.
Quote:

"2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are
sanctified
in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with ALL that in EVERY PLACE call
upon
the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:" 1 Cor 1:1-2
(KJV)
That verse supports my view not yours.

Don't be silly!

I never am silly, I hold the bible with the highest extreme and
believe people need to read and learn, instead of just accepting what
some other teach said and believe his view as Gods view. The Bible
and the context and culture all have to do with what was said and what
it means.I see nothing as silly when it affects the live of the
Children of God that are both man and woman, which in Gods eye are all
equal. Gods word is what we are to accept if one thinks their is a
problem. Gal 3:27-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ
Jesus.
NKJV

Quote:
This shows the letter and it's contents was to be acknowlegded "with ALL
that in EVERY PLACE call upon
 the name of Jesus Christ our Lord" it could not be any plainer.

This is not about Christ it is about Paul telling woman not to make
any noise in the service about asking questions. Paul word does not
overrule God rules for woman who in the past was even Rulers in the
OT, and books of the Bible are named after them like RUTH, ESTHER to
name a few. I like to see how Paul would dare tell them to be quite
and not say a word. History, God and what Paul did say to his local
area, is to be seen in context and in the whole of the teachings of
God to the people of God.

Quote:

So Christ's command for women to remain silent in the churches stands in
all
churches for all centuries.
If you are calling Paul as Christ, you are in deep trouble,

Paul informed us that it was the Lord's command, not his.
"As in all the churches of God's holy people, 34 the women must keep silent.
 They don't have the right to speak.......It's shameful for a woman to speak
 in church......37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
 spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
 Lord commands."1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)

No he was giving his word as many times he says IT IS HIS WORD HIS
VIEW. We all that love God obey God and follow God, but not every
word and actions goes thur God before we open our mouth. Romans 2:16
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ,
according to my gospel.
NKJV
Romans 16:25
Benediction
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and
the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the
mystery kept secret since the world began NKJV
2 Timothy 2:8
8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from
the dead according to my gospel, NKJV

I see MY GOSPEL not Gods gospel or Jesus gospel, Paul said a lot that
he even pointed out was HIS Gospel like I said PAUL told the woman in
that church what he wanted by HIS WORD or as the Gospel means the
TRUTH, and according to the Gospel of Paul he wanted thinks his way.
One can try to defend their understanding on this when they do not use
the over all teaching of the bible. I like Paul but I also want the
Holy Spirit to teach and lead me daily.



Quote:
It's what the Lord commands....when will you admit to it?

I suppose when you prove Paul did not say "MY GOSPEL" that the verses
above show he did. Tod admit what is wrong is sin.

Quote:
And if you think you are in anyway Spiritual, then  Paul has stated you must
acknowlegde the Lord's  command that women must remain silent in the
churches.
Ok?

How dare you try to imply because a person does not aprove of your
argument they in some way are less or a Spiritual person you are in
Sin. Paul never told me I had to acknowledge HIM as giving such as a
commandment from God. Woman are not commanded to keep silent in the
whole church any more the a ignorant man is to keep silent in the
churches.

Let see, what you have to say when God told men and them in the
worship and members followers, in the OLD mostly would of been men.
Jer 8:14

14 "Why do we sit still?
Assemble yourselves,
And let us enter the fortified cities,
And let us be silent there.
For the Lord our God has put us to silence
And given us water of gall to drink,
Because we have sinned against the Lord.

Zeph 1:7
Be silent in the presence of the Lord God;
For the day of the Lord is at hand,
For the Lord has prepared a sacrifice;
He has invited His guests.

Zech 2:13
13 Be silent, all flesh, before the Lord, for He is aroused from His
holy habitation!"
NKJV

Quote:

Jeff...
Now please learn something else.

Yes that would help you only you seem to be in a rut, and do not want
to learn anything else that the Lord has spoken.

Quote:
"1 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a
woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence..
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
1 Tim 2:10-13 (KJV)

Again Paul makes it clear this is not what God told him, as he even
pointed out in verse 12 ""BUT I SUFFER' not the church but HIMSELF, HE
as the I here would not suffer a woman to do this or that. Seems like
in other churches they did suffer the woman to preach, teach etc, only
here HE would NOT do so.

Thank you for posting that for all to see.


Raymond
 
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:23 pm
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:248d1bb6-b509-4f36-8e1c-e994558d230a at (no spam) j25g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 1, 2:58 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:13d80348-1438-466d-bf4b-3e57bf8c70fb at (no spam) k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
~ You need to get saved, the bible shows woman have a very
important
~ part in the ministry,

Not in Paul's teaching which had the full approval of Christ.

Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once

He spoke to him on a number of occasions throughout his journeys and
times
in jail.

~ Nope, give the verse that Jesus spoke to him.

How about....." One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision and told him,
"Don't be
afraid! Speak out! Don't be silent!10 For I am with you, and no one will
attack and harm you, for many people in this city belong to me." 11 So Paul
stayed there for the next year and a half, teaching the word of God." Acts
18:9-11 (NLT)

Quote:
TRy...."14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is
nothing
unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to
him
it is unclean." Romans 14:14 (KJV)
To have 'persuaded' Paul he must have communed with him.

~I checked that out with two other Versions of the Bible and find it is
~more of accepting what was the teachings of Jesus then Jesus
~personally speaking to Paul, then nothing show, has to do with Jesus
~telling Paul to tell people not to let woman speak in the church.

As Paul stated it is a commanded of the Lord that women must remain silent
in the churches, then we must accept his word for it. And as he also asks
that those who refuse to agree acknowledge it, then no-one has any option
but to do so....Well, as Paul said, if they have any inkling that they think
they are "Spiritual".

"It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church......37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)

I will gladly acknowledge it, so how about YOU?
Are you Spiritual?

~This is only a run around trying to get away from the fact Jesus did
~not tell Paul to tell the whole church to tell woman not to speak in
~church.

Sorry, but as "All Scripture is God breathed" then it is as Paul stated,
that it is a commandment of the Lord that women must be silent in the
Churches of God.

Jeff...
"Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."
I agree!!!
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:20 pm
 
On Nov 6, 3:23 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:248d1bb6-b509-4f36-8e1c-e994558d230a at (no spam) j25g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 1, 2:58 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:13d80348-1438-466d-bf4b-3e57bf8c70fb at (no spam) k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
~ You need to get saved, the bible shows woman have a very
important
~ part in the ministry,

Not in Paul's teaching which had the full approval of Christ.
Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once
He spoke to him on a number of occasions throughout his journeys and
times
in jail.

~ Nope, give the verse that Jesus spoke to him.

How about....." One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision and told him,
"Don't be
afraid! Speak out! Don't be silent!10 For I am with you, and no one will
attack and harm you, for many people in this city belong to me." 11 So Paul
stayed there for the next year and a half, teaching the word of God." Acts
18:9-11 (NLT)

What is wrong with you? No where does Paul say Jesus told him that
woman can not speak in any church?

Quote:

TRy...."14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is
nothing
unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to
him
it is unclean." Romans 14:14 (KJV)
To have 'persuaded' Paul he must have communed with him.

~I checked that out with two other Versions of the Bible and find it is
~more of accepting what was the teachings of Jesus then Jesus
~personally speaking to Paul, then nothing show, has to do with Jesus
~telling Paul to tell people not to let woman speak in the church.

As Paul stated it is a commanded of the Lord that women must remain silent
in the churches, then we must accept his word for it. And as he also asks
that those who refuse to agree acknowledge it, then no-one has any option
but to do so....Well, as Paul said, if they have any inkling that they think
they are "Spiritual".

There is NOTHING to show that the LORD ever told any women to remain
silent. Paul is not the LORD and he never said the Lord told him to
tell all woman keep silent in the churches. You need to stop adding
this "the Lord commanded" when what he said was what he wanted for the
church he was preaching in.
In fact Jesus let woman tell man what to do and such as I already gave
those verses and It seems you did not want to read them or accept them
as they would show you have no foundation to your doctrine. I know
many groups believe as you do, and preach it, that is why people join
them as they do not want their wife telling them what to do. When one
says they Love the Lord and them put words into the teachings of
Christ that was not from Christ Jesus.


Quote:
I will gladly acknowledge it, so how about YOU?
Are you Spiritual?

The Bible says any doctrine has to have two or three witnesses and you
do not have them, so I acknowledge what the bible does say, and it is
clear by your implying that you are Spiritual because you think you
have it right when you have one verse and be one person without the
biblical proof of a doctrine. I am very Spiritual and the fruit of my
ministry proves that. It not just a crop out to make others accept
your or you denominations teaching.

Quote:

~This is only a run around trying to get away from the fact Jesus did
~not tell Paul to tell the whole church to tell woman not to speak in
~church.

Sorry, but as "All Scripture is God breathed" then it is as Paul stated,
that it is a commandment of the Lord that women must be silent in the
Churches of God.

You should be sorry, as Paul never stated what you said he did. You
give no proof and make the one verse that he did tell that church what
to do. Again it is clear he did not point to all woman, as you posted
the verse that woman that were married had to be silent in that
church, and they had to ask their husband. Woman not married as they
had no such order, which you over look as it only shows your not
accepting the whole story, only picking it apart to make it look like
your correct when the bible shows your not.

Matt 18:16-17
16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by
the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'
NKJV

NOW PAUL SAID THIS, SO OBEY HIM IN THIS MATTER as Paul shows by such
that his teaching on woman was not accepted by all and not for all
churches, since he shows here, he did not have the witnesses of others
to support his local church order.

2 Cor 13:1-2 This will be the third time I am coming to you. "By the
mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established." NKJV

NOTE: I give you TWO different Apostles from MATTHEW AND CORINTHIANS.

Dr. R. Knapp
www.pioneers-for-Jesus.org
 
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:55 pm
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:584da5f7-b68c-426f-9eb4-
Quote:
On Nov 1, 2:58 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:13d80348-1438-466d-bf4b-3e57bf8c70fb at (no spam) k22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
~ You need to get saved, the bible shows woman have a very
important
~ part in the ministry,

Not in Paul's teaching which had the full approval of Christ.
Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once
He spoke to him on a number of occasions throughout his journeys and
times
in jail.

~ Nope, give the verse that Jesus spoke to him.

How about....." One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision and told him,
"Don't be
afraid! Speak out! Don't be silent!10 For I am with you, and no one will
attack and harm you, for many people in this city belong to me." 11 So
Paul
stayed there for the next year and a half, teaching the word of God." Acts
18:9-11 (NLT)

~What is wrong with you? No where does Paul say Jesus told him that
~woman can not speak in any church?

Yes he does....read it slowly....."As in all the churches of God's holy
people, 34 the women must keep silent.
They don't have the right to speak...It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church....37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)

Who do you think he means by the Lord?

Quote:
As Paul stated it is a commanded of the Lord that women must remain silent
in the churches, then we must accept his word for it. And as he also asks
that those who refuse to agree acknowledge it, then no-one has any option
but to do so....Well, as Paul said, if they have any inkling that they
think
they are "Spiritual".

~There is NOTHING to show that the LORD ever told any women to remain
~silent.

It's plain enough for those who want to see as I have just shown you.
"34 the women must keep silent.
They don't have the right to speak...It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church....37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)

~Paul is not the LORD and he never said the Lord told him to
~tell all woman keep silent in the churches.

He did you just read it....{;o;}
"What I write to you is what the Lord commands"

~ I know
~ many groups believe as you do, and preach it,

Because it is the Lord's command that women must not speak and remain
silence in the churches of God.

Quote:
that is why people join
them as they do not want their wife telling them what to do.

You mean like in this passage....
"Wives, in a similar way, place yourselves under your husbands' authority.
Some husbands may not obey God's word. Their wives could win these men {for
Christ} by the way they live without SAYING ANYTHING. 2 Their husbands would
see how pure and reverent their lives are.
3 Wives must not let their beauty be something external...... Beauty
expresses itself in a gentle and quiet attitude which God considers
precious. 5 After all, this is how holy women who had confidence in God
expressed their beauty in the past. They placed themselves under their
husbands' authority 6 as Sarah did. Sarah obeyed Abraham." 1 Peter 3:1-6
(GW)
Yes, so Christian women should obey their husband then?

Or maybe this one...
"22 Wives, be in subjection unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For
the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ also is the head of the
church, being himself the saviour of the body. 24 But as the church is
subject to Christ, so let the wives also be to their husbands in
everything." Eph 5:22-24 (ASV)

Quote:
I will gladly acknowledge it, so how about YOU?
Are you Spiritual?

The Bible says any doctrine has to have two or three witnesses and you
do not have them,

As it's a "commandment of the Lord" it needs nothing more, then the command
given.

Quote:
so I acknowledge what the bible does say, and it is
clear by your implying that you are Spiritual because you think you
have it right when you have one verse and be one person without the
biblical proof of a doctrine.

I have Paul's word who was personally ordained by Christ to teach the
Gentiles and he was not a liar, and as "ALL Scripture is Inspired by God"
you do not have a leg to stand on.

Quote:
I am very Spiritual and the fruit of my
ministry proves that.

Then prove it by taking the acid test...
"34 the women must keep silent.
They don't have the right to speak...It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church....37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted must acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands."
Please acknowledge it now, thanks.

Jeff...
 
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:36 am
 
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist" <broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com>
wrote in message news:8jsfb8Frj1U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:584da5f7-b68c-426f-9eb4-100d6a6fca81 at (no spam) t13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 6, 3:23 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:248d1bb6-b509-4f36-8e1c-
Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once

How about anytime....." One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision and
told him,
"Don't be afraid! Speak out! Don't be silent!10 For I am with you, and
no one will
attack and harm you, for many people in this city belong to me." 11 So
Paul
stayed there for the next year and a half, teaching the word of God."
Acts
18:9-11 (NLT)

What is wrong with you?

Nothing! only you said the Lord only spoke to Paul once, well I have shown
you another time, so admit he spoke to him more then once. Thanks.


Continuing with the Daily Readings I see he also spoke to Paul on yet
another occasion, would you like me to show the passage, Raymond?

Jeff...
"I've sent Timothy to you to help you remember my Christian way of
life as I teach it everywhere in every church."
1 Cor 4:17 (GW)

"As in all the churches of God's holy people, 34 the women must keep silent.
They don't have the right to speak.......It's shameful for a woman to speak
in church...37 Whoever thinks that he speaks for God or that he is
spiritually gifted MUST acknowledge that what I write to you is what the
Lord commands." 1 Cor 14:33-37 (GW)
I fully acknowledge it, Raymond can you?
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:13 pm
 
On Nov 10, 2:44 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:d104c257-774f-4761-8789-c9805b7873e2 at (no spam) p7g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 9, 3:33 am, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"

broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:584da5f7-b68c-426f-9eb4-100d6a6fca81 at (no spam) t13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 6, 3:23 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"

broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:

Gal 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
NKJV





"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:248d1bb6-b509-4f36-8e1c-
Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once

How about anytime....." One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision
and
told him,  "Don't be afraid! Speak out! Don't be silent!10 For I am
with you, and
no one will  attack and harm you, for many people in this city belong
to me." 11 So
Paul stayed there for the next year and a half, teaching the word of
God."
Acts
18:9-11 (NLT)
What is wrong with you?

Nothing! only you said the Lord only spoke to Paul once, well I have
shown
you another time, so admit he spoke to him more then once. Thanks.
The above verse was a VISION not a person on person talk,

Hi Raymond,
Paul stated the Lord spoke to him and even gave us the very words he said to
him.
Why won't you believe Paul's testament, do you think he was telling a lie?

I state that the Lord spoke to me as well as to most all Pastors that
love Jesus and the whole word of God. You still keep saying the Lord
spoke to Paul no one is denying that Jesus did, as He does to true
believers. What you have not shown is that doctrine for woman not to
speak in the church, was what the Lord told Paul to preach. I have no
problem with believing what Paul did say and in fact I can see in my
life a lot of the same kind problems Paul had and am blessed as Paul
was also.
You are the one trying to make this into a lie, when there is no lie
except the one you all are promoting here that Paul was told by Jesus
who let woman speak and worked with woman etc. would say such. Paul
did not tell unmarried woman they could not speak in church, as I have
pointed out over and over again and you act like you are the one that
is calling Paul a liar for doctrine your group want to use against
woman, when in the whole does not support what you want it to do.

Who wrote the book of Galatians was it not accepted to be done by
Paul? Gal 1:1-2 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but
through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
2 and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:
NKJV

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor
free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ
Jesus.
Are you saying Paul lied or was mentally ill to contradict his own
teachings.

NOTE: "TO THE CHURCHES"
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:22 pm
 
On Nov 11, 3:36 am, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist" <broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com
wrote in messagenews:8jsfb8Frj1U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...> >> messagenews:248d1bb6-b509-4f36-8e1c-
Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once

How about anytime....." One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision and
told him,
"Don't be  afraid! Speak out! Don't be silent!10 For I am with you, and
no one will
attack and harm you, for many people in this city belong to me." 11 So
Paul
stayed there for the next year and a half, teaching the word of God."
Acts
18:9-11 (NLT)

What is wrong with you?

Nothing! only you said the Lord only spoke to Paul once, well I have shown
you another time, so admit he spoke to him more then once. Thanks.

Continuing with the Daily Readings I see he also spoke to Paul on yet
another occasion, would you like me to show the passage, Raymond?

You still avoid the issue, God never spoke to Paul about woman not
aloud to speak in the church. I am still waiting for you to post
those verses and you do not, and then act like you can but need to be
asked to do so. OK, no problem, please provide those verses what God,
Jesus, the LORD or even an Angel of God told Paul to teach that all
woman are never to speak in the church. I look forward to that, only
so far you produce a lot of cover up, but no facts on this subject
about these discussions.
 
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:33 pm
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c7f526bf-13d9-4690-8433-a4dd18dcbeb0 at (no spam) r4g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 11, 3:36 am, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com
wrote in messagenews:8jsfb8Frj1U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
messagenews:248d1bb6-b509-4f36-8e1c-
Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke to
him once

How about anytime....." One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision
and
told him,
"Don't be afraid! Speak out! Don't be silent!10 For I am with you, and
no one will
attack and harm you, for many people in this city belong to me." 11 So
Paul
stayed there for the next year and a half, teaching the word of God."
Acts
18:9-11 (NLT)

What is wrong with you?

Nothing! only you said the Lord only spoke to Paul once, well I have
shown
you another time, so admit he spoke to him more then once. Thanks.

Continuing with the Daily Readings I see he also spoke to Paul on yet
another occasion, would you like me to show the passage, Raymond?

~You still avoid the issue,

Raymond, I am trying to take the issues one at a time.
You stated that Christ only communed with Paul on one occasion, well I have
showed you two already and here is another...."11 And the night following
the Lord STOOD BY HIM, and said, Be of good cheer: for as thou hast
testified concerning me at Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at
Rome." Acts 23:11 (ASV)

So will you now please acknowledge that Christ communed more then "Only
once" with Paul?
Thanks.

Jeff...
I will deal with your other two points in other posts.
 
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:49 pm
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a90befc8-c5ef-4d01-8309-1cbec0e29780 at (no spam) x7g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 10, 2:44 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:d104c257-774f-4761-8789-c9805b7873e2 at (no spam) p7g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 9, 3:33 am, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"

broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:584da5f7-b68c-426f-9eb4-100d6a6fca81 at (no spam) t13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 6, 3:23 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"

broadband1234[remove] at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote:

Gal 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
NKJV





"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:248d1bb6-b509-4f36-8e1c-
Paul never had his teachings approved by Jesus, Christ only spoke
to
him once

How about anytime....." One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision
and
told him, "Don't be afraid! Speak out! Don't be silent!10 For I am
with you, and
no one will attack and harm you, for many people in this city belong
to me." 11 So
Paul stayed there for the next year and a half, teaching the word of
God."
Acts
18:9-11 (NLT)
What is wrong with you?

Nothing! only you said the Lord only spoke to Paul once, well I have
shown
you another time, so admit he spoke to him more then once. Thanks.
The above verse was a VISION not a person on person talk,

Hi Raymond,
Paul stated the Lord spoke to him and even gave us the very words he said
to
him. Why won't you believe Paul's testament, do you think he was telling
a lie?

~>You still keep saying the Lord
~>spoke to Paul no one is denying that Jesus did, as He does to true
~>believers. What you have not shown is that doctrine for woman not to
~>speak in the church, was what the Lord told Paul to preach.

I have shown you...for Paul has declared the Lord has commanded that women
must not speak in the churches but must remain silent....for it is shameful
and disgraceful for women to speak, preach and teach in the mixed
assemblies.

"As in ALL the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in
the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as
the Law says......for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has
reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him
acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38 If he
ignores this, he himself will be ignored." 1 Cor 14:33-38 (ANIV)
So if you believe that Paul was an honest and reliable man of God then you
must "acknowledge" just as Paul has ask you to confirm, that it is a
commandment of the Lord, and thus it was the Lord who told him to write it.

If you think you are a "spiritual gifted" then Paul states you must comply
and "acknowledge" this command.
If you refuse to acknowledge it, then you show to one and all, you are not
spiritual and are in contention with both Paul and Christ over this
commandment for women.

Jeff...
 
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist...
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:02 pm
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
Quote:
Gal 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
NKJV


Of course, those who are baptized into Christ are all heirs according to
promise of being saved and put right with God through Jesus. But we
still have our roles to play as commanded by the word. proof! "There is
neither SLAVE nor FREE man"

Now, did that mean slaves could refuse to obey their masters? because
they where now free 'in Christ' ( ie. free from the consequences of their
previous sinful state (Condemned to death) before they where baptized)
of course not, and if this had been the case, surely Paul would have
insisted that all Christian 'Slave owners' released or stop demanding
obedience
to their instructions.

Yet what do we find, Raymond?
"Slaves, obey your masters; be eager to give them your very best. Serve
them as you would Christ. Don't work hard only when your master is watching
and then shirk when he isn't looking; work hard and with gladness all the
time, as though working for Christ, doing the will of God with all your
hearts. Remember, the Lord will pay you for each good thing you do, whether
you
are slave or free." Eph 6:5-8 (Living Bible)

And again... "Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to
please
them well in all things; not answering again; 10 Not purloining, but showing
all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in
all things. Titus 2:9-10 (KJV)

"Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters
worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not
blasphemed." 1
Tim 6:1 (KJV)

Now, where is there mention of Paul quoting, or advising slaves to say,
in pursuit of negating obedience to their masters. Oh! but hold on you
masters!
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal
3:26-28

Studied in its proper context you can see, it gives no reasoning or
excuse to abandon or disobey the Word of God pertaining to women remaining
silent in the churches as the Lord through Paul has commanded them.

Women fulfilling their roles in behaviour and deportment and obeying
scripture, is part of the their duty to Christ.

Refusing to play the submissive role, Veiling themselves in prayer, (or if
they refuse,
they are to shave their head) and remaining silent in the church, not
"usurping man's authority" is willful sin, for such are disobedience to
God's
express will.

So do your women veil or cover their heads before praying to God as
Apostolic instructions, Raymond?

Jeff...
 
 
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