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Patrick...
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:54 am
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) aim.com> wrote.
Quote:
Patrick wrote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote trash again....

Hey, knappo, I see you've added a "Dr" in front of
your name. I thought you were a "reverend?"
Aren't you the whiney missionary who spent years in
the Philippines? Didn't you once CLAIM to have gotten
a degree from some theological seminary that exists
only on the internet? What up with this "Dr" bit?
Did you get some sort of theological PhD now from
some other internet place?

He claims to have an earned Doctorate from a Bible College he never
attended, briefly operated by an Assembly of God Church; given in
recognition of a Sunday School Curriculum he wrote. He insists that this
was
not an honorary degree. So far, he doesn't seem to have found anyone
gullible enough to buy this story.

Well if you believe all these lies above you showing your very limited
in understanding and will believe anything. This person has a weird
imagination, all lies, never happen and such claims are all in his
evil mind. If you believe his statement you are very gullible, as it
is all false.

Then again when one attacks the writer instead of the message, we can
see how little they know and their inability to address the statements
and toss stones is all they have to get the attending from the Post
and away from their lack of wisdom and knowledge on the subject at
hand. Then this kind of stunt has been a SCAM on the internet for
years.
----------------------

Oh, Knappo.... I've attacked your credentials for years.
You once gave me the name of your theological college, and when
I looked it up and presented it to the group, you disappeared.
You are a fraud.
Do you still have your website?
Tell everyone your background, your history, your resume.
Tell us how you were asked to leave The Philippines.
Tell us all about your education, your means of acquiring your "wealth."
----
I will provide all the details of my life. I'm not afraid.
Why are you?
Here, .... I'll start......
I am 62, Catholic, retired military after 28+ years of service.
Graduated BS (Eastern Ill Univ) 1976 and MS (EIU) 1978.
I have two community college degrees also.
I lived in Germany ( 4yrs), Spain (3yrs), Singapore (3yrs), Thailand (3yrs)
etc.
OK, .... your turn.
 
Patrick...
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:13 am
 
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwknapp at (no spam) aim.com> wrote in message
news:c1b5a471-d13a-495e-a1db-75e6d0f79a4d at (no spam) c21g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 23, 4:36 am, "Patrick" <barker... at (no spam) erinot.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote trash again....

Hey, knappo, I see you've added a "Dr" in front of
your name. I thought you were a "reverend?"

To post it fully, the church would say "The Reverend Doctor Raymond
Knapp" The reverend only shows one is minister or a Pastor, the Dr.
shows I have earned degrees in Theology and the Doctor is for
Doctorate of Divinity. The title seems to make people afraid of us,
as they think God will do something to them if they do not honor the
Ministry. I have met people that will say, if we use the title
Reverend that we are taking the name of God as our own. So Dr. just
says one has education in the field they are speaking in.

+PB - Excellent beginning. Which Internet College did you receive
your doctorate in? Since I have already investigated your "Rev"
status, and also received that stature by e-mail,.... perhaps I could
go further and get the next degree you claim to have.
---------

Oh yes, I don't know any "knappo" so if you were addressing such a
person, I am not that Knappo person. But think you made a honest
mistake, so did reply to you anyway. I will not next time as that
would be disrespectful to my mom and dad that both died years ago.
Most do respect the dead, at least when I was growing up.

+PB -- Another excellent response. You have matured in your writing.
I am glad. How are your wife and kids?
Do you really think that calling yourself a "doctor" adds respect
to you, your parents, or your case?
----------

Quote:
Aren't you the whiney missionary who spent years in
the Philippines? Didn't you once CLAIM to have gotten
a degree from some theological seminary that exists
only on the internet? What up with this "Dr" bit?
Did you get some sort of theological PhD now from
some other internet place?

As for "whiney" that word only means "Habitually complaining". I
suppose to anyone that cares about people and try to help them out of
their problems, and they do not want to get out, would see a minister
as such.
I lived for spent 19 years in the islands of the Philippines and build
a Seminary there. As well as as the appointed Overseer at that time,
as Bishop of more then 300 Churches in the middle and south Islands.
Training pastors and have helped built 47 Churches etc.

+PB - I thought so. You do know that I looked you up and
am willing to set the record straight on this, don't you?
----------

No I never once said I CLAIM to have a internet degree! I got my
degrees by hard work in the classroom. from a College that is still
there, from San Antonio Texas, full time student and have over 135
hours towards my Master's degree, approved by the US government. No "
PhD" as that is too general and can does not specializes in Church or
Bible knowledge.

+PB - Yet.... you now have placed a "doctor" in front of your name.
Didn't you get enough attention with the "Rev" ?
Are you absolutely sure you have 135 hours toward your Master's Degree?
Perhaps you might wish to restate that -- just a little.
As for your college, I have forgotten.... I thought it was in Tennesee?
Since I am not afraid to list mine (Eastern Ill University, Charleston ILL),
why not list your college again?
Oh - just in case you are wondering, I was an Associate Professor for
the University of Maryland, Far Eastern Division, Singapore, ... a while
ago.
-------------

Any one can refer to www.pioneers-for-jesus.org as I am the founder
of that non-profit Corporation. Then check out the "HISTORY" link for
such information about me, my life, and family as well as the
education attained is listed there. Any one can check out the
newsletters and you can see from 1999 to 2010 reports with pictures of
what we have done and what is going on today in China for the last 28
years, Taiwan and Hong Kong, China, as well as seep pictures dating
back to 1964.
Thank you for asking. Now why is your question posted. As such really
has nothing to do with what I post here, as such is discussion and for
anyone to post to.

+PB - Why do I question you?
Because you CLAIM to be a man of God, yet you
overinflate your resume in order to gain acceptance of your posts.
------------

If I wanted to make a point on my education and Theology, I would post
in such newsgroups that are for those that have the education and
degrees, so to have a intellectual study.

+ PB - Did you even graduate from high school?
I did - Central Catholic High School, Great Falls, Montana.
---------

Here we have mockers, atheist, cults as well as believers in Christ,
and even Islamic folks. All of which Jesus points out to witness to,
to tell all the people that Christ is the Savour. So instead of
educated replies, we find people that do not accept anyone to tell
them otherwise and think everyone just CLAIM things and are false.

+ PB --You are merely another billy graham wannabe.
I once gave you the benefit of the doubt, until you opened your mouth.
You are not the oracle or prophet that you claim to be.
------------

Maybe because they can not believe a real Pastor or minister would
care about them and their foolishness to waste time with them. I was
lost, I was a evil person, and I know how it is, to now one is going
to Hell and no one cares. Then Jesus came into my life and the last
50 years, my life is in Him, my Lord and Saviour. I hope you have
accepted Christ as your saviour, then if you have not, post in a
civilized way and I be happy to reply when I can find the time, as I
travel a lot, and next week I be flying back to the USA for meetings
and such.

+PB -- But I know you will find the time.
You find me to be an enigma, a challenge, and a CATHOLIC.
Now it is your turn to explain yourself, ... or to insult my religion.
Take your time.
 
Patrick...
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:17 am
 
"Sidney Lambe" <sidneylambe at (no spam) somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrni9o98h.2rh.sidneylambe at (no spam) 3f8s2dcr5.net...

Quote:
I looked over the IBC site and don't believe it is an
accredited institution. His "Ph.D." is apparently phony.

I knew it. I didn't even have to look.


Quote:
And as for being ordained a minister, that costs about
$40 bucks on the Web.

I got mine for free - from a website a few years ago, after reading
the "Rev" ray knapp.



Quote:
Knappy, it will be a cold day in your imaginary "Hell" before
anyone like you runs my life. And the only "last days" you
are experiencing are the last days of your creepy and
poisonous religion.

Knapp gives me the creeps.
He gives himself titles in order to make himself SOUND
bigger and better than he is. I had forgotten how he
used to call himself a bishop. He once claimed his wife
was a bishop also. (made me laugh).
 
Sidney Lambe...
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:49 am
 
On alt.religion.christian, Dr. R. Knapp <rwknapp at (no spam) aim.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 11:12=A0pm, Sidney Lambe <sidneyla... at (no spam) somewhere.invalid
wrote:
On alt.religion.christian, Dr. R. Knapp <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 4:36=3DA0am, "Patrick" <barker... at (no spam) erinot.com> wrote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote trash again....

Hey, knappo, I see you've added a "Dr" in front of
your name. =3DA0I thought you were a "reverend?"

NO SUCH PERSON As "knappo" learn to read and spell then lying is all
you can do it seems.

That was Patrick, moron. _I_ call you "Knappy". And yes there is such
a person: You. You don't think we believe you are a real minister
or doctor, do you?

Where's your congregation and church, Knappy?

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
 
Sidney Lambe...
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:49 am
 
On alt.religion.christian, Patrick <barker_pb at (no spam) erinot.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Sidney Lambe" <sidneylambe at (no spam) somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrni9o98h.2rh.sidneylambe at (no spam) 3f8s2dcr5.net...

I looked over the IBC site and don't believe it is an
accredited institution. His "Ph.D." is apparently phony.

I knew it. I didn't even have to look.

And as for being ordained a minister, that costs about
$40 bucks on the Web.

I got mine for free - from a website a few years ago, after reading
the "Rev" ray knapp.

Knappy, it will be a cold day in your imaginary "Hell" before
anyone like you runs my life. And the only "last days" you
are experiencing are the last days of your creepy and
poisonous religion.

Knapp gives me the creeps.
He gives himself titles in order to make himself SOUND
bigger and better than he is. I had forgotten how he
used to call himself a bishop. He once claimed his wife
was a bishop also. (made me laugh).

Hey Patrick.

I don't even know why I bother with the repulsive fool. There's
no way that even a gullible youngster is going accept him as a
mentor. He's obviously as phony as a three dollar bill.

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
 
singin4free...
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:28 pm
 
On Sep 22, 11:00 pm, Sidney Lambe <sidneyla... at (no spam) somewhere.invalid>
wrote:
Quote:
On alt.religion.christian, Dr. R. Knapp <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote:

On Sep 22, 4:44=A0pm, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
On 9/22/2010 5:26 PM, jwsheffi... at (no spam) satx.rr.com wrote:

Let's all pray for Christopher!

Prayer has been established in EVERY test to be worthless

Quite the contrary.



Keep lying to yourself, everything you said here is worthless that is
fact.  Billions of people and thousands of years, shows you are
ignorant about prayer, and what you say is what is worthless.

The modern studies of 'the power of prayer' have shown it to
be effective in varying degrees and that it doesn't matter whether
the person believes in god(s) or not. Nor does it matter what
they are praying to. A rock does as well as one of the established
(alleged) gods.

An agnostic or atheist who prays to a rock to accomplish
something will be just as effective as a Christian who prays to
Jehovah.

[delete]

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

That is untrue. The studies may show nothing but that does not mean
God will not answer prayers outside of the studies. God controls the
results. As always in history, God hides himself from the proud and
reveals himself to the humble who trust in him. Imagine the pot
telling the potter what he ought to do. That is about how ridiculous
it is to try to trap God in a bottle with a study. He is not a genie,
he is the Creator of the Universe. However, God did and still does
reveal himself to mankind. That record is preserved in the scriptures.
But there are few who believe the report. For those who do believe and
love him, as Jesus told us, he loves them and manifests himself to
them, and makes his abode in them. He knows his sheep and they know
him. Anyone who will can come and drink of the waters of life freely
by placing their faith and trust in Jesus Christ, in his atonement for
their sins and in his resurrection. Anyone! Even you, sitting where
you are at this moment can come to him with childlike faith, knowing
your need, and he will accept you, forgive your sins and give you the
gift of eternal life. It is only a prayer away. Please do so and know
him now.
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:49 pm
 
On Sep 24, 5:54 am, "Patrick" <barker... at (no spam) erinot.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote.

All lies so cut that out, you can not even tell the truth in a public

newsgroup, no wonder you log on with a fake name.

Quote:

Well if you believe all these lies above you showing your very limited
in understanding and will believe anything.  This person has a weird
imagination, all lies, never happen and such claims are all in his
evil mind.  If you believe his statement you are very gullible, as it
is all false.

Then again when one attacks the writer instead of the message, we can
see how little they know and their inability to address the statements
and toss stones is all they have to get the attending from the Post
and away from their lack of wisdom and knowledge on the subject at
hand.  Then this kind of stunt has been a SCAM on the internet for
years.
----------------------

Oh, Knappo.... I've attacked your credentials for years.
You once gave me the name of your theological college, and when
I looked it up and presented it to the group, you disappeared.
You are a fraud.
Do you still have your website?
Tell everyone your background, your history, your resume.
Tell us how you were asked to leave The Philippines.
Tell us all about your education, your means of acquiring your "wealth."

Well maybe Knappo will someday reply to you, then there was a guy that
been attacking what is shown to be true as if it was a lie, and now
can not even tell the truth about the name of the one he is writing
to. Kind of shows the reader you really are a fake and a fraud
nothing to do but make up lies about other people that are educated
and trained and has a proven ministry. Then Satan does that kind of a
job. No "knappo" here it would seem, then you imagination and name
changing is noted.

Oh again I hope all the readers did got to the link for IBC the
college in Texas, it was great, makes this foolish person prove He is
a Fraud and just has to call others what he is, as I suppose that is
all he has to hang onto some sanity.

I would like to hear all about that knappo guy and why you think he
left the Philippines also. That would be interesting fiction for you
to write the fantasy of your mind.

Quote:
----
I will provide all the details of my life.  I'm not afraid.
Why are you?
Here, .... I'll start......
I am 62, Catholic, retired military after 28+ years of service.
Graduated BS (Eastern Ill Univ) 1976 and MS (EIU) 1978.
I have two community college degrees also.
I lived in Germany ( 4yrs), Spain (3yrs), Singapore (3yrs), Thailand (3yrs)
etc.
OK, .... your turn.-

no knappo here. Then who would believe your details or that a word of
it is truth. I would not be nice if I use the BS as most would, I
sure hope that word is not the foul term it sound like, which means
you go nothing and your lying up a storm again. Sure a MIU I wonder
what that is suppose to mean, shall some unsaved person tell him. You
most likely live in some out back hole in the ground as what you use
here to attack another is as full of lies as your details of your life
is, you still just a longly guy if you are a guy, who knows, any name
and gender can be used as a log on name for liars and evil people.

If you see this "Knappo" tell him hi for us here in the real world.
 
singin4free...
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:20 pm
 
On Sep 25, 1:23 pm, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
Quote:
On 9/25/2010 9:13 AM, Patrick wrote:

"singin4free"<jffry... at (no spam) gmail.com>  wrote
That is untrue.

YET you give NO PROOF of that

IF you are claiming something is NOT TRUE  - by all means PROVE your
statement

The studies may show nothing but that does not mean

God will not answer prayers outside of the studies. God controls the
results.

If YOU could PROVE that one you would have already posted the PROOF

However - NO one of ANY religion has proven that to be true.

"Blessed are they who have not seen yet believe"
- Jesus to doubting Thomas after he gave him the PROOF he requested.
 
Patrick...
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:53 pm
 
"Thommadura" <tommadura at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote ..
Quote:
On 9/25/2010 9:13 AM, Patrick wrote:
"singin4free"<jffrycnt at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote
That is untrue.


YET you give NO PROOF of that
IF you are claiming something is NOT TRUE - by all means PROVE your
statement
If YOU could PROVE that one you would have already posted the PROOF
However - NO one of ANY religion has proven that to be true.

Aren't you tired of singing that same old song?
prove the existence of God?
There are several lines of reason that prove God's existence. The first is
the so-called Cosmological Argument.

there are essentially three possibilities as to the origin of the universe
and the implications about God:

1.. That the universe emerged from nothing. Little needs to be said about
this notion. Nothing produces nothing. This premise is neither logical nor
reasonable.
2.. That the universe is eternal. Among many scientific reasons why the
universe is not eternal are: (a) the big bang theory, (b) the abundance of
hydrogen, and (c) the irreversible decay of the universe.
1.. The discovery by Edwin Hubble that the universe appears to be
uniformly expanding in all directions leads to the conclusion that the
universe had a beginning. The Big Bang theory is not merely a proposition
that matter expanded from an infinitely small position. It is the
proposition that the universe had an absolute beginning-that before this
event not even space nor time even existed at all!
2.. Hydrogen is continually being converted into helium through the
process of nuclear fusion. This process is irreversible, so the abundance of
hydrogen in the cosmos belies the notion of an eternal universe.
3.. The second law of thermodynamics says that while the total amount of
energy remains constant (the first law), the availability of usable energy
in the universe is constantly declining (the second law). Apart from the
intervention of a supernatural agent (God), the stars would have burned out
and the universe would have run down like a clock with no one to wind it
back up. The logical conclusion is that it cannot be true that an infinite
amount of time has passed because the universe would have reached a cold and
lifeless state of absolute equilibrium.
3.. That the universe was created by an eternal being. By process of
elimination, the existence of an omnipotent God is the most reasonable
conclusion for origin.
The Law of Causality is a fundamental principle of science and logic. To
deny it is to deny rationality.



The skeptic sometimes asks, "Well, then, who created God?" The answer is
that no one created God, as he is eternal. A rule of logic states that every
effect must have an antecedent cause. But God is not an effect; rather he is
a cause. The logic here is simple but compelling. Since something exists,
and since something cannot arise from nothing-and further that the universe
itself is not eternal-something outside of the universe must be eternal. An
infinite creator God must be that something. Time and space had a beginning,
but God exists outside of time and space.



In addition to the Cosmological Argument, there is the Teleological
Argument. This idea is that the design in the universe implies God. (The
Greek work telos means design.) This argument is expressed in various ways
scientifically, but with common sense that one can prove with 100%
certainty-without calling on faith or the Bible-that God exists. There is
evidence of intelligent design all around us. If one sees a bird's nest, he
concludes that a bird made it. If one sees a computer, he must acknowledge
the evidence of an intelligent computer designer. A painting proves that
there is a painter. Information does not derive from non-information.
Intelligence does not derive from non-intelligence. The fact of creation
proves a creator.

A scientific explanation of the teleological argument is the so-called
anthropic principle. This principle is the fact that the universe is based
upon several fundamental constants of physics. Even non-Christian Stephen
Hawking, considered the best-known scientist since Albert Einstein,
acknowledges "...the universe and the laws of physics seem to have been
specifically designed for us.
 
Sidney Lambe...
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:55 pm
 
On alt.religion.christian, Terry Cross <tcross77 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 25, 10:25=A0am, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
[delete]


Quote:
To claim a ministry is PROVEN - would require PROOF a god does
exist And that is the FRAUD HERE

SO - post the proof or we will accept that as proof YOU have
none

It all depends upon your standard of proof -- and there are
multiple standards. Maybe your standard is a pitchfork in the
rear end, and you feel your standard has not been met. But
individual experience varies, too.

Exactly. Take the Scientists. You can't ask them to prove that
randomness/chance/chaos/accident exists because the Scientific
Method is predicated upon the assumption of its existence. It is
accepted on blind faith.

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
 
Patrick...
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:56 pm
 
"Thommadura" <tommadura at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote ...
Quote:
On 9/25/2010 9:17 AM, Patrick wrote:

Oh, Knappo.... I've attacked your credentials for years.
You once gave me the name of your theological college, and when
I looked it up and presented it to the group, you disappeared.
You are a fraud.
Do you still have your website?
Tell everyone your background, your history, your resume.
Tell us how you were asked to leave The Philippines.
Tell us all about your education, your means of acquiring your "wealth."

Well maybe Knappo will someday reply to you, then there was a guy that
been attacking what is shown to be true as if it was a lie, and now
can not even tell the truth about the name of the one he is writing
to. Kind of shows the reader you really are a fake and a fraud
nothing to do but make up lies about other people that are educated
and trained and has a proven ministry. Then Satan does that kind of a
job. No "knappo" here it would seem, then you imagination and name
changing is noted.


Ah- another person who claims he knows what a SATAN does

Who are you? And why did you just lie?
I made no such claim.



Quote:
If you had proof of that one - or even the existence of satan - or a god -
you would have posted it already
To claim a ministry is PROVEN - would require PROOF a god does exist
And that is the FRAUD HERE
SO - post the proof or we will accept that as proof YOU have none

prove the existence of God?
There are several lines of reason that prove God's existence. The first is
the so-called Cosmological Argument.

there are essentially three possibilities as to the origin of the universe
and the implications about God:

1.. That the universe emerged from nothing. Little needs to be said about
this notion. Nothing produces nothing. This premise is neither logical nor
reasonable.
2.. That the universe is eternal. Among many scientific reasons why the
universe is not eternal are: (a) the big bang theory, (b) the abundance of
hydrogen, and (c) the irreversible decay of the universe.
1.. The discovery by Edwin Hubble that the universe appears to be
uniformly expanding in all directions leads to the conclusion that the
universe had a beginning. The Big Bang theory is not merely a proposition
that matter expanded from an infinitely small position. It is the
proposition that the universe had an absolute beginning-that before this
event not even space nor time even existed at all!
2.. Hydrogen is continually being converted into helium through the
process of nuclear fusion. This process is irreversible, so the abundance of
hydrogen in the cosmos belies the notion of an eternal universe.
3.. The second law of thermodynamics says that while the total amount of
energy remains constant (the first law), the availability of usable energy
in the universe is constantly declining (the second law). Apart from the
intervention of a supernatural agent (God), the stars would have burned out
and the universe would have run down like a clock with no one to wind it
back up. The logical conclusion is that it cannot be true that an infinite
amount of time has passed because the universe would have reached a cold and
lifeless state of absolute equilibrium.
3.. That the universe was created by an eternal being. By process of
elimination, the existence of an omnipotent God is the most reasonable
conclusion for origin.
The Law of Causality is a fundamental principle of science and logic. To
deny it is to deny rationality.



The skeptic sometimes asks, "Well, then, who created God?" The answer is
that no one created God, as he is eternal. A rule of logic states that every
effect must have an antecedent cause. But God is not an effect; rather he is
a cause. The logic here is simple but compelling. Since something exists,
and since something cannot arise from nothing-and further that the universe
itself is not eternal-something outside of the universe must be eternal. An
infinite creator God must be that something. Time and space had a beginning,
but God exists outside of time and space.



In addition to the Cosmological Argument, there is the Teleological
Argument. This idea is that the design in the universe implies God. (The
Greek work telos means design.) This argument is expressed in various ways
scientifically, but with common sense that one can prove with 100%
certainty-without calling on faith or the Bible-that God exists. There is
evidence of intelligent design all around us. If one sees a bird's nest, he
concludes that a bird made it. If one sees a computer, he must acknowledge
the evidence of an intelligent computer designer. A painting proves that
there is a painter. Information does not derive from non-information.
Intelligence does not derive from non-intelligence. The fact of creation
proves a creator.

A scientific explanation of the teleological argument is the so-called
anthropic principle. This principle is the fact that the universe is based
upon several fundamental constants of physics. Even non-Christian Stephen
Hawking, considered the best-known scientist since Albert Einstein,
acknowledges "...the universe and the laws of physics seem to have been
specifically designed for us.
 
Sidney Lambe...
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:08 pm
 
On alt.religion.christian, Patrick <barker_pb at (no spam) erinot.com> wrote:

Quote:
"Thommadura" <tommadura at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote ..

On 9/25/2010 9:13 AM, Patrick wrote:

"singin4free"<jffrycnt at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote That is untrue.


YET you give NO PROOF of that IF you are claiming something
is NOT TRUE - by all means PROVE your statement If YOU could
PROVE that one you would have already posted the PROOF However
- NO one of ANY religion has proven that to be true.

Aren't you tired of singing that same old song? prove the
existence of God? There are several lines of reason that prove
God's existence. The first is the so-called Cosmological
Argument.

there are essentially three possibilities as to the origin of
the universe and the implications about God:

1.. That the universe emerged from nothing. Little needs
to be said about this notion. Nothing produces nothing. This
premise is neither logical nor reasonable. 2.. That the
universe is eternal. Among many scientific reasons why the
universe is not eternal are: (a) the big bang theory, (b) the
abundance of hydrogen, and (c) the irreversible decay of the
universe. 1.. The discovery by Edwin Hubble that the universe
appears to be uniformly expanding in all directions leads to
the conclusion that the universe had a beginning. The Big
Bang theory is not merely a proposition that matter expanded
from an infinitely small position. It is the proposition that
the universe had an absolute beginning-that before this event
not even space nor time even existed at all! 2.. Hydrogen is
continually being converted into helium through the process of
nuclear fusion. This process is irreversible, so the abundance
of hydrogen in the cosmos belies the notion of an eternal
universe. 3.. The second law of thermodynamics says that while
the total amount of energy remains constant (the first law),
the availability of usable energy in the universe is constantly
declining (the second law). Apart from the intervention of
a supernatural agent (God), the stars would have burned out
and the universe would have run down like a clock with no one
to wind it back up. The logical conclusion is that it cannot
be true that an infinite amount of time has passed because
the universe would have reached a cold and lifeless state of
absolute equilibrium. 3.. That the universe was created by an
eternal being. By process of elimination, the existence of an
omnipotent God is the most reasonable conclusion for origin.
The Law of Causality is a fundamental principle of science and
logic. To deny it is to deny rationality.


The skeptic sometimes asks, "Well, then, who created God?"
The answer is that no one created God, as he is eternal. A
rule of logic states that every effect must have an antecedent
cause. But God is not an effect; rather he is a cause. The
logic here is simple but compelling. Since something exists,
and since something cannot arise from nothing-and further
that the universe itself is not eternal-something outside of
the universe must be eternal. An infinite creator God must be
that something. Time and space had a beginning, but God exists
outside of time and space.



In addition to the Cosmological Argument, there is the
Teleological Argument. This idea is that the design in the
universe implies God. (The Greek work telos means design.) This
argument is expressed in various ways scientifically, but with
common sense that one can prove with 100% certainty-without
calling on faith or the Bible-that God exists. There is
evidence of intelligent design all around us. If one sees a
bird's nest, he concludes that a bird made it. If one sees a
computer, he must acknowledge the evidence of an intelligent
computer designer. A painting proves that there is a painter.
Information does not derive from non-information. Intelligence
does not derive from non-intelligence. The fact of creation
proves a creator.

A scientific explanation of the teleological argument is the
so-called anthropic principle. This principle is the fact
that the universe is based upon several fundamental constants
of physics. Even non-Christian Stephen Hawking, considered
the best-known scientist since Albert Einstein, acknowledges
"...the universe and the laws of physics seem to have been
specifically designed for us.

What you are missing here is that time and space do not
exist outside of this reality, and it is but one of
an infinite number of objective realities. A grain of
sand on an endless beach.

It's not just God that is outside of time and space, it
is the overwhelming bulk of Creation. And that includes
our own inner selves.

God didn't created this universe in the distant past, whether
thousands or billions of years ago. God is creating all of the
universes right now. Or, more accurately, God is creating the
beings that are creating the beings...that are creating all
objective realities: human beings don't have souls. Souls have
human beings. It is our own souls or source-selves or entities
that create this world, guided by our conscious beliefs (within
boundaries that are obvious). We are magickal beings and
beliefs are spells are beliefs. That's what Jesus is trying
to tell us.

You don't need reason to know that there is a God. You just
need your senses, inner and outer.

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
 
Dr. R. Knapp...
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:49 pm
 
On Sep 25, 12:16 pm, "Patrick" <barker... at (no spam) erinot.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn... at (no spam) aim.com> wrote in messagenews:6d9cdc68-fbe1-4cc8-83e0-74f75cf3de5b at (no spam) y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 8:17 am, "Patrick" <barker... at (no spam) erinot.com> wrote:


Hello reader,

Quote:
My Mom and Dad gave me this name. I've used it 62 years.

Sure!

The only fraud here it would seem is you Patrick if that is really
your name, then you can not even call people by their name so why
would you call yourself such.

Actually that is not a bad question.  Let me answer you thus.  You -
Knappo - have attempted to lie to this group by claiming  that you earned
the title "Reverend'  first, .... then "Bishop"  secondly, .... and now

There you go again, lying again, it is a good question as you just
proved my point, you do not address people by their name and think
someone is going to take you seriously. Sorry it not going to work.

Now the only one that sees this guy as attempting to do is all in your
evil mind. His papers are real as his titles, that been proven over
and over again then you just do not care to read. learn or accept,
then they did that kind of stuff to Jesus also.

Quote:
"Doctor."  Most folks show a little respect to people who have earned those
titles by educational means through study and recognition of achieving
greatness.  My daughter has a PhD from MIT, and when you claim to hold the
same title as she has, then you cheapen the entire process.


What a shame you try to bring in family to support your falsehood,
what a pity.
How stupid and ignorant can you be I told you Dr. Knapp never had a
PHD and you keep lying as if he said he did. It is sure any reader
can see by that silly statement you just make up facts and lies about
people and now bring your family into it. What a sorry state of mind
you must be in.

Quote:
I've had many discussions with you before.  Perhaps you just don't recall
because I kicked your ass years ago on this same subject.  I demanded you
provide your credentials, and.... like a fool that you are .... you posted
where you obtained your theological training.... How thoughtful that was
because that "internet" fraudulent - and non-recognized entity no longer
exists.  I sent off to them and also received the title: "reverend" from
them.    What a special day that was.  I celebrated with a diet coke.

They have places for delusional people like yourself the above shows
you need to ask your family to take you to one for a check up or maybe
even a stay, they do have drugs that can help your mental disorder.

What a shame, you seem to believe your own falsehood.

Quote:

+ PB You are a fraud.  You attempt to portray yourself as something you are not.
+ PB Why not just admit it?  You haven't attended class  in a recognized educational institution.

I suppose this "+ PB" is your name in your way of thinking and yes as
you pointed out "You are a fraud" the rest of that statement fit you

Then to admit to your delusional remark would make a person a liar
just like you are, and you do need help. Do you think ever one has a
PhD, maybe you got a few in your mind, seek help before you hurt
yourself. Oh yes, check out you eyes as there is no "knappo" here,
never was, you can not even spell correctly then if you had a
education the institution would be ashamed to tell anyone.

I did think that link to IBC was just great now that was to the public
to read, so all could go, nice vidieo also.

Raymond
 
Sidney Lambe...
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:12 pm
 
On alt.religion.christian, Thommadura <tommadura at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

[delete]

Quote:

Sorry - but LINES of reasoning do not PROVE the existence of a
god

Even if they IMPLY a need for a higher power - there remains no
proof such a power exists - and IMPLICATION is NOT PROOF


YOU can SPIN words no matter how - but the existence of a god -
or any particular gods - are NOT established to be true.


Then you can kiss your Theory of Evolution fantasy good-bye.

(I did, years ago.)

The basal evidence supporting it can be characterized as nothing
but blind faith.

[delete]

Sid

--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
 
Thommadura...
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:19 pm
 
On 9/25/2010 4:55 PM, Sidney Lambe wrote:
Quote:
On alt.religion.christian, Terry Cross<tcross77 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 25, 10:25=A0am, Thommadura<tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
[delete]

To claim a ministry is PROVEN - would require PROOF a god does
exist And that is the FRAUD HERE

SO - post the proof or we will accept that as proof YOU have
none

It all depends upon your standard of proof -- and there are
multiple standards. Maybe your standard is a pitchfork in the
rear end, and you feel your standard has not been met. But
individual experience varies, too.

Exactly. Take the Scientists. You can't ask them to prove that
randomness/chance/chaos/accident exists because the Scientific
Method is predicated upon the assumption of its existence. It is
accepted on blind faith.


Ah - change of subject noted

That is typical theists at work

When they cannot answer the question - they do one or more of three things

1 - They attack the question (Ie - what is proof)
2 - They attack the questioner
3 - They change the subject

WE are not discussing what scientists say - we are discussing the LACK
of proof of gods

However - I can say this much -

IF we take the idea of gods as Hypothesis - then the hypothesis of the
christian, judaic, and islamic faith HAVE BEEN falsified because a god
AS DEFINED by those religions cannot exist.

If a hypothesis is falsified - it is then up to those proposing that
hypothesis to CORRECT THE hypothesis - abandon the hypothesis - or come
up with a new Hypothesis that agrees with the new information.

THose religions claim their god is ALMIGHTY without Limits (Nothing is
impossible with god) - as well as ALL Knowing - ALL good - ALL just -
ALL fair - EVERYWHERE - and lots of other things - but I need ONLY deal
with those claims


1 - IT is NOT possible to be ALMIGHTY without limits -= period. That
creates HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of paradoxes that cannot be overcome.
For example - a god that can create a disease that it cannot cure -
cannot be almighty because he cannot cure it - and he could not be
almighty if he cannot create it. I could list several thousand such
paradoxes that establish that ALMIGHTY without limits is not possible so
the gods of those religions CANNOT EXIST as defined.

2 - THE other "ALLS" - actually act as LIMITS to almighty as well. A god
that is all good cannot create evil. Since the scripture of those three
religions ADMIT that their god created evil - the god CANNOT BE ALL
GOOD. That happens to be the problem with monotheisms and polytheisms
like christianity that have ONE creator god claimed =- it there is ONLY
one god with the power of creation then it had to create EVERYTHING EVIL
- as well as good.

3 - The claim that ANY god is everywhere cannot be true. IF that were
the case - NOTHING else could exist - since that god would take up ALL
SPACE - and there would be none left for anything else. So - the claim
of everywhere is also not possible since we DO exist. IF we do not exist
- religion is worthless anyway. Of course - if a god were everywhere
other than where we are - then we ALL could see the god. THat no one
does indicates that the god does not exist on the spectrum of light
humans can see so the god is NOT everywhere.


WE can also eliminate the religions on other grounds - including the
laughable fairy tale that is creation in their scripture. NONE of the
ancient religions get that correct. There are other numerous errors in
their so called "inerrant inspired" words of their god scriptures.

SO - having been falsified - it is now up to the religions to correct
their claims.
 
 
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