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| Dirk Bruere at NeoPax... |
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:11 pm |
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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a
species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of
reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation,
and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law
strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was
founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President.
Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
FFF
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show |
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| robert bowman... |
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:18 am |
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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
Quote: A Prohibition law
strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was
founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President.
otoh, Lincoln had little problem violating the principles upon which the
government was founded. Welcome to the Roach Motel and the Hamiltonian
vision of the future. |
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| Doug Freyburger... |
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:23 am |
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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax quoted:
Quote:
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance.
Interesting how that works out not just for alcohol but for the current
war on drugs and on other topics. Before US prohibition beer was more
popular than whiskey and the primary motivation for distilled drink was
travel. Not the only reason but definitely the primary one. After US
prohibition distilled drinks where more popular for decades and only now
as those born during prohibition are dying are lower alcohol drinks
getting more popular again. Drinks like wine coolers and premixed
coolers are a direct result of the demographics of people being born
after prohibition ended.
Also interesting that social pressure has been more successful than laws
ever were. MADD - Mothers Against Drunk Drivers - has actually made
drunk driving unpopular not just lip service.
With drug prohibition the evolution towards stronger drugs matched the
pattern. No matter the "gateway theory" that using a weaker drug leads
to a stronger drug that didn't happen with alcohol until prohibition.
Sure enough it also didn't happen with drugs until prohibition. But
like the changing popularity of beer versus whiskey pot plants have been
selectively bred for strength and folks have moved on to stronger drugs.
Quote: It is a
species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of
reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation,
and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes.
Worse, it gives people reason to disrespect the law. When a giant
fraction of the population ignores speed limit laws and an unknown
fraction takes illegal drugs, where is the line between morality and
legality? It makes the two more distinct than they should be.
Quote: A Prohibition law
strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was
founded."
It also pours vast wealth into the coffers of criminals who could have
been legal tax paying businessmen or harmless paupers without that
illegal money. Which is better the Jomsvikings or a fleet of trading
ships? Which is better a two bit hood who can't afford a car or a rich
cocaine lord who can afford a private army?
So the result is more and more abridgement of freedom without actually
stopping the crimes.
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| scottlowther at (no spam) ix.netcom.com... |
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:00 pm |
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On Oct 27, 2:23 pm, Doug Freyburger <dfrey... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: A Prohibition law
strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was
founded."
It also pours vast wealth into the coffers of criminals...
It also pours vast wealth into the coffers of politicians. But then, I
guess that's not too different from what you said. |
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| scottlowther at (no spam) ix.netcom.com... |
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:02 pm |
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On Oct 27, 3:28 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru... at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: If I were a "cocaine lord" I would be slipping cash to prohibitionists
for ever tougher laws.
Sorry, it's been done. See "What! No beer?" From 1933, starring Buster
Keaton and Jimmy Durante. Most comedies from that era blow right by me
without leaving so much as a smirk, but this one was good (and
relevant to the topic). |
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| Dirk Bruere at NeoPax... |
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:28 pm |
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Doug Freyburger wrote:
Quote: Dirk Bruere at NeoPax quoted:
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance.
Interesting how that works out not just for alcohol but for the current
war on drugs and on other topics. Before US prohibition beer was more
popular than whiskey and the primary motivation for distilled drink was
travel. Not the only reason but definitely the primary one. After US
prohibition distilled drinks where more popular for decades and only now
as those born during prohibition are dying are lower alcohol drinks
getting more popular again. Drinks like wine coolers and premixed
coolers are a direct result of the demographics of people being born
after prohibition ended.
Also interesting that social pressure has been more successful than laws
ever were. MADD - Mothers Against Drunk Drivers - has actually made
drunk driving unpopular not just lip service.
With drug prohibition the evolution towards stronger drugs matched the
pattern. No matter the "gateway theory" that using a weaker drug leads
to a stronger drug that didn't happen with alcohol until prohibition.
Sure enough it also didn't happen with drugs until prohibition. But
like the changing popularity of beer versus whiskey pot plants have been
selectively bred for strength and folks have moved on to stronger drugs.
It is a
species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of
reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation,
and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes.
Worse, it gives people reason to disrespect the law. When a giant
fraction of the population ignores speed limit laws and an unknown
fraction takes illegal drugs, where is the line between morality and
legality? It makes the two more distinct than they should be.
A Prohibition law
strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was
founded."
It also pours vast wealth into the coffers of criminals who could have
been legal tax paying businessmen or harmless paupers without that
illegal money. Which is better the Jomsvikings or a fleet of trading
ships? Which is better a two bit hood who can't afford a car or a rich
cocaine lord who can afford a private army?
So the result is more and more abridgement of freedom without actually
stopping the crimes.
If I were a "cocaine lord" I would be slipping cash to prohibitionists
for ever tougher laws. Prices rise, supply diminishes (somewhat) and
business is easier and more profitable.
FFF
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show |
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| Doug Freyburger... |
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:20 am |
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scottlowther at (no spam) ix.netcom.com wrote:
Quote: Doug Freyburger <dfrey... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
A Prohibition law
strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was
founded."
It also pours vast wealth into the coffers of criminals...
It also pours vast wealth into the coffers of politicians. But then, I
guess that's not too different from what you said.
Exactly. Where the Jomsvikings criminals or pioneers? Is Odin a
criminal for stirring up wars then killing capable warriors during the
combat so he can recruit for Ragnarok? Or is he actually practicing a
selective breeding program in favor of peaceful humans and thus a
politician? ;^)
Lots of redundancy in the lore can be viewed through that lens if you
want to. Both Thor and Volund are smiths. One goes around picking
fights with bad giants; the other leads revolutions against oppressive
kings. |
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| Doug Freyburger... |
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:47 am |
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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
Quote:
If I were a "cocaine lord" I would be slipping cash to prohibitionists
for ever tougher laws. Prices rise, supply diminishes (somewhat) and
business is easier and more profitable.
There's a book titled "Freakonomics" that asks unusual questions and
uses the data to draw interesting answers on economic topics. I've read
the original edition printed a few decades ago and recently saw a new
edition at a book store.
One question it asks is - If drug dealers make so much money, why do so
many of them still live with their mothers? The answer comes from a
study of how the cocaine business works. At the retail level the
workers are as poor as franchise workers simply because there are so
many poor folks willing to try it. It's only after moving up several
levels in the ranks that good money is made and that too is driven by
supply and demand rules of how many are willing to commit the violent
crimes it takes to move up in the early ranks and then switch to
discouraging violence because it's bad for business in the higher ranks.
The high crime rate associated with drugs is used as a reason to the
general population as a justification to continue. The lesson of
alcohol prohibition in the US taught that the crime drops rapidly when
prohibition is repealed so those usign the justification depend on the
ignorance and stupidity of the masses to not make that correlation.
"Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it".
The book made a much more controvertial conclusion - In the US violent
crime rates per capita have been falling gradually across the decades,
though the rates remain higher than in some other countries. The drop
in crime rates is correlated to the abortion rate with a time lag.
Abortions mean fewer unwanted children and reduced poverty rates. |
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