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| Timothy Sutter... |
 Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:15 am |
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here's the word;
xyvm // mashiyach
anointed, Messiah
hxvm // moshchah
anointing, anointed, ointment
both from root
xvm // mashach
anoint, paint
you'll see "Mashiyach" quite often in
the scriptures, and "moshchah" -is- a
descriptor for the levitical and
Aaronic priesthood.
so, if anyone suggests that the term,
"messianic jew" is an oxymoron"
their teeth should fall out.
you completely anull David.
for english readers, "Mashiyach" is "messiah"
and seeing that "mashiyach" is called
in english "messiah" we'll make
"moshchah" --- "messianated"
it's rendered "anointed" in some places
as a past tense verb, so, "messianated"
is basically the same thing.
here's a sampling;
----
Psalm 2:2
The kings of the earth set themselves, And
the rulers take counsel together, Against
YHWH and against His Messiah, saying,
Psalm 18:50
Great deliverance He gives to His king,
And shows mercy to His messiah, To David
and his descendants forevermore.
Psalm 20:6
Now I know that YHWH saves His Messiah;
He will answer him from His holy heaven
With the saving strength of His right hand.
Psalm 28:8
YHWH is their strength, And He
is the saving refuge of His Messiah.
Psalm 45:7
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has "messianated" You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
Psalm 84:9
O God, behold our shield, And
look upon the face of Your Messiah.
Psalm 89:20
I have found My servant David; With
My holy oil I have "messianated" him,
Psalm 89:51
With which Your enemies have reproached, O YHWH,
With which they have reproached the footsteps
of Your Messiah.
Psalm 105:15
Saying, "Do not touch My "messianated"
ones, And do My prophets no harm."
Psalm 132:10
For Your servant David's sake, Do not
turn away the face of Your Messiah.
Psalm 132:17
There I will make the horn of David grow;
I will prepare a lamp for My Anointed.
Psalm 105:15
Saying, "Do not touch My anointed ones,
And do My prophets no harm."
Psalm 132:10
For Your servant David's sake, Do not
turn away the face of Your Messiah.
Psalm 132:17
There I will make the horn of David grow;
I will prepare a lamp for My Messiah.
---
now a sample from Torah;
this "priesthood' is most definitely "messianic"
and to say otherwise is simply gross ignorance.
the entire priesthood is anointed of God.
---
Exodus 29:29
"And the holy garments of Aaron shall be his sons'
after him, to be "messianated" in them and to be
consecrated in them.
Exodus 40:15
You shall anoint them, as you "messianated" their father,
that they may minister to Me as priests; for their
"messianating" shall surely be an everlasting
priesthood throughout their generations."
Leviticus 4:3
if the "messianated" priest sins, bringing guilt
on the people, then let him offer to YHWH for
his sin which he has sinned a young bull
without blemish as a sin offering.
Leviticus 4:5
Then the "messianated" priest shall take some
of the bull's blood and bring it to the
tabernacle of meeting.
Leviticus 4:16
The "messianated" priest shall bring some of the
bull's blood to the tabernacle of meeting.
Leviticus 8:12
And he poured some of the "messianating" oil on
Aaron's head and "messianated" him, to consecrate him.
Leviticus 16:32
And the priest, who is "messianated" and consecrated
to minister as priest in his father's place,
shall make atonement, and put on the linen
clothes, the holy garments;
Numbers 3:3
These are the names of the sons of Aaron,
the "messianated" priests, whom he consecrated
to minister as priests.
---
here's some bits leading up to David;
remember, YHWH -was- the King of Israel
before Israel asked to have a human
king as the 'nations' had.
----
1 Samuel 2:35
Then I will raise up for Myself a faithful
priest who shall do according to what is
in My heart and in My mind. I will build
him a sure house, and he shall walk before
My messiah forever.
1 Samuel 12:3
Here I am. Witness against me before YHWH and
before His messaih: Whose ox have I taken, or whose
donkey have I taken, or whom have I cheated? Whom
have I oppressed, or from whose hand have I received
any bribe with which to blind my eyes?
I will restore it to you."
1 Samuel 12:5
Then he said to them, "YHWH is witness against you,
and His messiah is witness this day, that you have
not found anything in my hand." And they answered,
"He is witness."
----
here's a few statements from some
of the prophets of Israel;
----
Isaiah 61:1
"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me,
Because YHWH has "messianated" Me To preach
good tidings to the poor; He has sent
Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim
liberty to the captives, And the opening
of the prison to those who are bound;
Lamentations 4:20
The breath of our nostrils, the Messiah
of YHWH, Was caught in their pits, Of whom
we said, "Under his shadow We shall live
among the nations."
Habakkuk 3:13
You went forth for the salvation of Your people,
For salvation with Your Messiah. You struck the
head from the house of the wicked, By laying
bare from foundation to neck. Selah
-----
the only conclusion we may draw here is
that, for this sort of person who would say
that 'messianic jew' is an oxymoron
a "Jew" has no relation to Torah, Tanakh nor Psalms
and Jesus says quite specifically
that he came to fulfill the Law,
the Prophets and the Psalmist.
so, one might ask; who is the -real- "Jew"? |
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| Timothy Sutter... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:19 am |
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-if- the blood atonement offered up
by lamb's blood according to Sinai had
acheived the goal of cleansing the
conscience of 'sin' then that thing
would have stood,
what's funny is that some people
dream up 648 'exceptions to the rule'
and thereby make the law of none effect.
what -stank- in the nose of YHWH
and was -not- a "sweet smelling aroma"
is when the blood of bulls and goats
were being brought year after year
as -payment- for -continuing- in the
same behaviors that are opposed to
the love of God and no redemption was seen.
-that- is called 'liscence'
Isaiah expounds on this in some detail.
the author of the letter to the Hebrews
echoes the prophet Jeremiah and says;
"the days are coming when i will formulate
a new contract with Israel and Judah, YHWH
will inscribe My ways upon their hearts
and minds and they -shall- be my people
and i shall be their God."
as far as people speaking about "the law"
the term "the law" may be
used for several things;
among them;
the commands of YHWH
propitiatory elements of the Sinai contract
the promulgation of the commands of YHWH by Moses
precedent set down by 'the seat of Moses'
"traditions of men"
"traditions of the fathers"
what you want to grasp is when exactly
"the law" is the embodiment of the
Love which is God, and subsequently,
how and when and by whom does this erosion
take place whereby the embodiment of the
Love of God is replaced with some
philosophical justification of self
in the face of the Law's conviction.
first, notice how the Law is viewed
as a "spiritual" matter with a
"righteous requirement"
---
Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual...
Romans 2:26
Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps
the righteous requirements of the law,
will not his uncircumcision be counted
as circumcision?
Romans 8:4,6-8
that the righteous requirement of the
law might be fulfilled in us who do not
walk according to the flesh but
according to the Spirit.
....
For to be carnally minded is death,
but to be spiritually minded is life
and peace. Because the carnal mind
is enmity against God; for it is not
subject to the law of God, nor indeed
can be. So then, those who are in
the flesh cannot please God.
---
-this- 'law' approaches the
embodiment of the love of God,
inasmuch as the general context
is that no harm be done to either
God or fellow man.
'harm to God'?
yes, you can engage in a
striving against God
which stinks.
but maybe more can be mentioned
on that in a different context.
in this next bit, you
will notice terms like;
"fleshly mind" and "commandments
and doctrines of men"
---
Colossians 2:17-22 [read verse 6-17 as well]
which are a shadow of things to come,
but the substance is of Christ. Let
no one cheat you of your reward, taking
delight in false humility and worship
of angels, intruding into those things
which he has not seen, vainly puffed
up by his fleshly mind, and not holding
fast to the Head, from whom all the body,
nourished and knit together by joints
and ligaments, grows with the increase
that is from God. Therefore, if you
died with Christ from the basic principles
of the world, why, as though living in
the world, do you subject yourselves
to regulations-- "Do not touch, do not
taste, do not handle," which all concern
things which perish with the using--according
to the commandments and doctrines of men?
---
so, obviously, this 'return' to the
'basic principles of the world' is -not-
The Law of YHWH which points towards
the embodiment of the Love which is God.
so, when it is suggested that you don't
return to -that- "false humility"
it is not suggesting in any fashion
that the manners and ways of YHWH
which are to be inscribed upon the
heart and mind of the faithful adherent
has been tossed in the wastepaper basket.
as an aside;
where the propitiatory elements found in
the 'law' do not remove conscious spot
from the mind of mankind,
---
Hebrews 9:9
It was symbolic for the present time
in which both gifts and sacrifices
are offered which cannot make him who
performed the service perfect in
regard to the conscience--
Hebrews 9:14
how much more shall the blood of Christ,
who through the eternal Spirit offered
Himself without spot to God, cleanse your
conscience from dead works to
serve the living God?
---
the all sufficient atonement made for the
human beings by Jesus Christ enables the
indwelling of God's own nature which inscribes
the very ways and manners of God upon the
hearts and minds of those same human beings.
-that- is the _New Contract_ spoken of by
Jeremiah which accomplishes the circumcision
of the heart spoken of by Moses.
see below.
first notice these things;
--
Hebrews 4:1-3
Therefore, while the promise of entering his
rest remains, let us fear lest any of you be
judged to have failed to reach it. For good
news came to us just as to them; but the message
which they heard did not benefit them, because
it did not meet with faith in the hearers.
For we who have believed enter that rest,
as he has said, "As I swore in my wrath,
'They shall never enter my rest,'" although
his works were finished from the
foundation of the world.
--
those people who sat around Sinai and dropped
in the desert all had "the gospel" preached
to them, only they didn't receive it in Faith
and so dropped every one in that desert.
they drank water from the Rock
and ate manna which fell
from the sky.
but, when Jesus pops up, those people had
rejected Moses outright and tossed it out
in favor of their own traditions.
they gave an appearance of remembering
Sinai but they had wandered far and
wide from that thing.
but look here;
---
Leviticus 26:41
so that I walked contrary to them and brought
them into the land of their enemies; if then their
uncircumcised heart is humbled and they make
amends for their iniquity;
Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin
of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.
Deuteronomy 30:6
And YHWH your God will circumcise your heart and the
heart of your offspring, so that you will love YHWH
your God with all your heart and with all
your soul, that you may live.
Romans 2:29
He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision
is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal.
His praise is not from men but from God.
---
see, circumcision of the heart was -always-
a matter considered in the law and
under the law already.
it was no "new thing" that Paul and Jesus
made up and delivered casting aside the law.
when the "circumcision party" popped
up in amongst the christian converts,
they weren't exactly trying to bring back
the christians to the law, they were trying
to re-institute what amounted to the traditions
that they had wandered away from
the law in favor of.
simply put, Jesus didn't come to cast
aside the law, -they- never had a
proper perspective on it any way.
-they- didn't greet it with faith
and -they- walked away from it.
but how else can Paul extract and
preach Jesus, from the law and the prophets?
because Jesus was right there, in
the law and the prophets the whole time.
anyway, "true" circumcision is of the heart,
and Moses shows this and Paul reaffirms this.
don't confuse casting down the law with putting
as much distance as possible between Jesus
and the 'traditions of the fathers.'
traditions that Jesus himself said
were contrary to his stated "mission".
i.e. traditions which Jesus was chastizing
the religious of his day for holding
to while casting down the law.
traditions which embody the basic principles
of the world in deferrence to the covetous
nature of flesh material man as opposed
to the embodiment of the Love which
YHWH God -is-.
there is a solution to the problem.
Jesus Christ [YHWH Savior] was right there in
amongst them the whole time, they just never
recognized him and failed to show the good
faith necessary for that recognition. |
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| Timothy Sutter... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:20 am |
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further;
the "circumcision party" were people who
thought that all new converts should
be circumcised.
i gave them only one benefit of the doubt
and that was that Torah suggests that any
new entry into Israel from the surrounding
"nations" was to eat the passover and
have all males circumcised.
Paul simply said that the contract
at Sinai was no abrogation of the
Promises made to Abraham.
said that these Promises superceded
the contractual elements handed
down 400 years later.
he never said that "the law is evil"
in fact, Paul says that "the law"
has a "just requirement" but that it
is the indwelling nature of God thru
Christ in the Holy Spirit that brings
about the renewal of the consciousness
that no legal code can bring about.
and, that therefore, entry into the
Sinai contract, for new converts was
simply unnecessary, but never suggested
that one practicing Sinai based understandings
was to simply shove them off.
Paul said that the law was still just
as good as it ever was at pointing out
a lack of love, only that the law itself
could not shove a loving nature into anyone.
just one other thing.
see, the so-called "circumcision party"
did have an actual point, or so they felt.
their point was that the Law suggested that if an
alien or outworlder wished to enter into Israel,
that they must circumcise their males
and eat the Passover.
but Peter already came to understand the
new creation thru Faith in likeness to Abraham
in the case of Cornelius of the Italian Corhort.
and they were shocked and amazed that the
Holy Spirit fell on what we may safely
assume was an uncircumcised male.
and Paul was quick to note that his
greek companions were not circumcised
but were undoubtledly among the Faithful.
and so, this was a true circumcision
of the heart and not that subject of
ritual purity which cannot cleanse
your conscience of shortfall.
and it appeared to Paul that this party,
though having many faithful in their midst,
had adherents who were simply bent
on "returning to Egypt"
and re-enslaving the people in
a bondage from which Jesus
had set them free
to add some clarity;
this "circumcision party" was in
the context of so-called "christianity"
they were, presumably "christians" who were
insisting on physical circumcision as
a sign of christian approval.
--
Acts 15:1
But some men came down from Judea and were teaching
the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according
to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
Acts 15:5
But some believers who belonged to the party of
the Pharisees rose up, and said, "It is necessary
to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep
the law of Moses."
--
as, the law states that when a foreigner
wished to celebrate the passover, all males
in that family were to be circumcised,
and, somewhat, accepting Christ
was an entry in to the Passover.
--
Exodus 12:48
And when a stranger shall sojourn with you and
would keep the passover to YHWH, let all
his males be circumcised, then he may come near
and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land.
But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.
--
but they were misguided in that Christ had
accepted a direct entry in to the "seed of Abraham"
aside from this physical circumcision as
evidenced by Cornelius, the gentile,
recieving the Holy Spirit, and Peter's
vision that Christ had purified all things.
--
Acts 10:1
At Caesare'a there was a man named Cornelius,
a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort,
Acts 10:45
And the believers from among the circumcised who
came with Peter were amazed, because the gift
of the Holy Spirit had been poured out
even on the Gentiles.
--
and, Paul never claimed that having the
circumcision of the flesh disabled one
from entering in to Christ, as he himself
was circumcised "on the eighth day."
--
Philippians 3:4-5
Though I myself have reason for confidence
in the flesh also. If any other man thinks he has
reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:
circumcised on the eighth day, of the people
of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew
born of Hebrews; as to the law a Pharisee,
--
so, clearly, Paul isn't saying that
circumcision prevents one from
entering in to Christ.
it was when they, the "circumcision party,"
insisted that Barnabus become circumcised
that Paul drew his line in the sand.
--
Galatians 2:12-14
For before certain men came from James,
he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he
drew back and separated himself, fearing
the circumcision party. And with him the rest
of the Jews acted insincerely, so that even
Barnabas was carried away by their insincerity.
But when I saw that they were not straightforward
about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas
before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live
like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can
you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?"
--
and they spread the rumor that Paul was
suggesting to jews that they forsake
being circumcised, a thing which
Paul never suggested.
--
Acts 21:21
and they have been told about you that you teach
all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to
forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise
their children or observe the customs.
--
he only suggested that the gentile converts
did not have to enter in to the Sinai contract
in order to become "christians" and James agreed.
--
Acts 15:19-21
Therefore my judgment is that we should not
trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
but should write to them to abstain from the
pollutions of idols and from unchastity and
from what is strangled and from blood.
--
now, -that- "animosity between
the two," 'jews and gentiles'
was torn down.
--
Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments
and ordinances, that he might create in himself
one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
--
no longer two people, jews and gentiles,
but "all are one" in Christ.
-that- was 'abolished'
see, just as Job was 'hedged in' under the
protective elements of God's own presence,
so, Israel, that peculiar people to God
was hedged in, but thru Christ, that hedge
is broadened out to include anyone who calls
on the Name of Jesus [YHWH Savior] for salvation
-from- the basic elemental principles which
keep man in a bondage to the 'existing conditions'.
interestimg to note is the fact that Egypt
practiced what amounted to a severe reverence
-for- the stasis of nature.
--
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither
slave nor free, there is neither male nor female;
for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
--
as the law states, and Moses echoes, that
"circumcision of the heart" was the ideal
state of affairs, anyway, and this was a
"spiritual" matter and not one attained
through any sort of physical markings.
--
Leviticus 26:41
so that I walked contrary to them and brought
them into the land of their enemies; if then
their uncircumcised heart is humbled and
they make amends for their iniquity;
Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin
of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.
Deuteronomy 30:6
And YHWH your God will circumcise your heart
and the heart of your offspring, so that you will
love YHWH your God with all your heart and
with all your soul, that you may live.
--
Deuteronomy 30:6 lays this circumcision
of the heart in the hands of YHWH.
--
Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit
within them; I will take the stony heart out of
their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
--
--
Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to YHWH, remove the
foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and
inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go
forth like fire, and burn with none to
quench it, because of the evil of your doings."
--
at any rate, whether *you* circumcise your
own heart or whether God does it for you,
*this* is the key to salvation, and not
just the sign of the physical peculiarity
thru the physical circumcision in the flesh.
so, these gentile converts could make
the jump to Christ directly,
and not pass thru Sinai.
controvery ended.
Titus 1:15
To the pure all things are pure,
but to those who are defiled and
unbelieving nothing is pure; but
even their mind and conscience
are defiled. |
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| Timothy Sutter... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:21 am |
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"the Lamb is the Lamp"
---
Revelation 21:23
And the city has no need of the sun nor of
the moon, that they should shine for it; for
the glory of God has enlightened it, and
the lamp thereof [is] the Lamb.
---
remember who the Lamb is;
---
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him,
and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes
away the sin of the world!
John 1:36
And looking at Jesus as He walked,
he said, "Behold the Lamb of God!"
---
what you should see is that a "lamp"
-is- a spirit in what we may call
"bible parlance" that is, you should
see how a "lamp" is used as
synonymous with spirit.
God's Own Lamp is not a
vessel like Alladin's lamp.
a "lamp" is also the light that shines.
greek; "lampein" means "to shine"
Holy Spirit is, in fact, a lamp.
David says this;
---
Psalm 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my
feet And a light to my path.
---
but see, he's already said this;
---
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
---
the reason that David could say that
YHWH's Word was a lamp to his feet was
-because- the Holy Spirit was a
lamp to his mind.
because;
---
Isaiah 6:10
Make the heart of this people calloused; make
their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise
they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
---
which implies that without God's light to
the mind, you can read the God's Word all
day long and get zero out of it.
like many people who make vain attempts
at attacking the bible show regularly.
and all the bits about the eye
being the lamp of the body etc.
the Holy Spirit is the Eye of God
it illuminates man.
---
Proverbs 20:26-28
A wise king sifts out the wicked, And
brings the threshing wheel over them.
the spirit of a man is the lamp of YHWH
Searching all the inner depths of his
heart. Mercy and truth preserve the king,
And by lovingkindness he upholds his throne.
---
the spirit of man is the lamp of YHWH.
therefore, a "spirit" is like a lamp.
now look here;
---
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knows the things of a man except the
spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one
knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
---
alright, so you see that man has a spirit
in him and God, also, has a Spirit.
can say "is a Spirit" but that's
not the issue here.
so look, if man's spirit, is YHWH's lamp,
then God's Spirit is God's OWN Lamp.
and one that burns perpetually and never
need fueling or refilling or whathaveyou.
look at these from Exodus, which are
likenesses of the Eternal Realities.
---
Exodus 27:20
"And you shall command the children of Israel
that they bring you pure oil of pressed olives
for the light, to cause the lamp to burn continually.
Leviticus 24:2
"Command the children of Israel that they bring
to you pure oil of pressed olives for the light,
to make the lamps burn continually.
Leviticus 24:4
He shall be in charge of the lamps on the
pure gold lampstand before YHWH continually.
---
---
Hebrews 9:24
For Christ has not entered the holy places
made with hands, which are copies of the true,
but into heaven itself, now to appear in the
presence of God for us;
---
see, these Lamps are to burn continually.
yes, they are physical copies and shadows of
the eternal realities, but the point of issue
is that they are -supposed- to be ever burning
and as such, God's Spirit never ceases,
but is everlasting.
i throw this in just for good measure;
---
2 Samuel 22:28-30
You will save the humble people;
But Your eyes are on the haughty,
that You may bring them down.
"For You are my lamp, YHWH;
YHWH shall enlighten my darkness.
For by You I can run against a troop;
By my God I can leap over a wall.
---
look, YHWH is a lamp also.
just like Lamb is a lamp.
Lamp is a figurative term
used to describe a facet of God.
please, this is considering a Spiritual thing,
in terms that only shadow the reality. we are
not considering Lamb as if Lamb was a lamp
which must be continually filled with oil
and whose wick must be trimmed etc.
this is not the case.
this "lamp" is an integral part of God.
in fact, it's as if this Lamp -is- God,
and that is exactly how you should
be seeing this.
YHWH is sending YHWH into a human flesh.
that which resides in the flesh is YHWH.
the True Light.
but now, we see that Lamb is alive
forevermore and everlasting, as before.
and as above, just as the spirit in man
is YHWH's lamp, so is Christ's Spirit,
the Holy Spirit, God's OWN Lamp.
only this Lamp is perpetually lit.
and God's Glory Shines forth from God.
God is both Light and Lamp.
---
Matthew 6:22
"The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore
your eye is good, your whole body will be full
of light.
Luke 11:34
The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore,
when your eye is good, your whole body also
is full of light. But when your eye is bad,
your body also is full of darkness.
Revelation 5:6
And between the throne and the four living creatures
and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though
it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes,
which are the seven spirits of God sent
out into all the earth;
---
see, The Lamb has seven eyes like seven
lamps only some agree that seven is ONE Week,
and these seven eyes are the seven sprits of God,
which most will agree there is but One Spirit of God.
so, this agrees quite readily
with what was shown above.
that this "Lamp" is God's Own Spirit,
and not a thing which is -not- God.
can you see this?
and God's Lamp never goes out nor is it
in need of refueling, nor is it an
abstractable thing which is -not- God.
this "Lamp" is God's OWN Spirit.
and the Lamb has -Eyes-
which are God's Spirit.
and therefore, as it were,
the Lamb is Lamp, but not
-only- Lamp.
God -is- a Holy Spirit.
and this Light burns perpetually.
and Jesus is The Lamb and
The Lamb is The Lamp and the
Lamp is The Spirit of God.
Jesus Christ, not only
is YHWH incarnate but
is the Spirit of God.
---
Ephesians 2:22
in whom you also are built into it for
a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Ephesians 3:17
and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through
faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
2 Timothy 1:14
guard the truth that has been entrusted to you
by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.
---
and Jesus is The Lamb and
The Lamb is The Lamp and the
Lamp is The Spirit of God.
Jesus Christ, not only
is YHWH incarnate but
is the Spirit of God.
Christ is in your midst;
there is no Temple in the world
to come, God will dwell -in- them.
---
Romans 12:5
so we, though many, are one body in Christ,
and individually members one of another.
1 Corinthians 12:12
For just as the body is one and has many members,
and all the members of the body, though many, are
one body, so it is with Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ
and individually members of it.
---
1 Corinthians 15:44-46
It is sown a physical body, it is raised a
spiritual body. If there is a physical body,
there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written,
"The first man Adam became a living being"; the last
Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not
the spiritual which is first but the physical,
and then the spiritual.
---
Ephesians 2:21-22
in whom the whole structure is joined together
and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in
whom you also are built into it for a dwelling
place of God in the Spirit.
Revelation 21:3
and I heard a loud voice from the throne
saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men.
He will dwell with them, and they shall be his
people, and God himself will be with them;
2 Corinthians 5:1-3
For we know that if the earthly tent we live
in is destroyed, we have a building from God,
a house not made with hands, eternal in the
heavens. Here indeed we groan, and long to put
on our heavenly dwelling, so that by putting
it on we may not be found naked.
John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and
the Father in me? The words that I say to you
I do not speak on my own authority; but the
Father who dwells in me does his works.
John 14:17
even the Spirit of truth, whom the world
cannot receive, because it neither sees him
nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells
with you, and will be in you.
Acts 7:47-49
But it was Solomon who built a house for him.
Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made
with hands; as the prophet says, 'Heaven is my
throne, and earth my footstool. What house will
you build for me, says the Lord, or what
is the place of my rest?
---
there is no house that man can build
to house God. that's the whole
bloody point.
---
1 Corinthians 3:15-17
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss,
though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's
Spirit dwells in you? If any one destroys God's temple,
God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy,
and that temple you are.
Ephesians 2:22
in whom you also are built into it for
a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Ephesians 3:17
and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through
faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
2 Timothy 1:14
guard the truth that has been entrusted to you
by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.
Revelation 21:2-4
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down
out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned
for her husband; and I heard a loud voice from the
throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with
men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his
people, and God himself will be with them; he will
wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall
be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying
nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."
---
there is no Temple, the Body of Christ,
the Church, the Bride of Christ is a
dwelling place for God.
---
Revelation 19:7
Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his
Bride has made herself ready;
Revelation 21:2
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming
down out of heaven from God, prepared as
a bride adorned for her husband;
2 Corinthians 11:2
I feel a divine jealousy for you, for
I betrothed you to Christ to present
you as a pure bride to her one husband.
Revelation 21:9
Then came one of the seven angels who had the
seven bowls full of the seven last plagues,
and spoke to me, saying, "Come, I will
show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb."
---
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ. |
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| Timothy Sutter... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:22 am |
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Guest
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look at this bit for a second;
==
John 4:7-10,,21-25
7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water.
Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8 For
His disciples had gone away into the city
to buy food. 9 Then the woman of Samaria
said to Him, “How is it that You, being
a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?”
For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.
10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you
knew the gift of God, and who it is who says
to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have
asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
,,
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me,
the hour is coming when you will neither
on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship
the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know;
we know what we worship, for salvation is of
the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now
is, when the true worshipers will worship the
Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is
seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit,
and those who worship Him must worship in spirit
and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know
that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ).
“When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
==
see, some woman calls Jesus a 'Jew" and
he doesn't deny it and say that he isn't
a "Jew" in fact, he calls himaelf a
"Jew" in the next passage.
so, you have to agree that
Jesus was not a 'traditional jew'
or maybe even what some would
call an 'oral toradic jew'.
but not that Jesus himself
would say that he wasn't a "Jew"
and, inasmuch as some will suggest
that to be a 'jew', -now-, is to be
an oral toradist, one may say that according
to -that- defining element, that a 'jew'
is an oral toradist, then we can say that
Jesus was -not- this -type- of 'jew', but,
that, apparentlyhe was familiar with
the workings of the oral toradists.
whether this -type- of -jew- is the
-only- type of jew is -only- the
opinion of -this- type of jew.
but, we see that Jesus is -the-
human being who was "praised" by God.
anyway, first, consider Paul who called
himself a 'jew', and then went on to describe
exactly what he meant by 'judaism' and
subsequently, to distance himself
from -that-.
Paul equates Judaism with
"traditions of the fathers"
Paul says he was zealous for
the traditions of his fathers.
---
Galatians 1:13-14
For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism,
how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure
and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism
beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation,
being more exceedingly zealous for the
traditions of my fathers.
---
see, Paul said he was a zealous
'jew' who upheld the traditions.
but look here, Paul -taught- Jesus
as Messiah from -Law and prophets-
---
Acts 24:14
But this I confess to you, that according to the
Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God
of my fathers, believing all things which are
written in the Law and in the Prophets.
Acts 28:23
So when they had appointed him a day, many came
to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and
solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading
them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses
and the Prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 7:42
Then God turned and gave them up to worship the
host of heaven, as it is written in the book of
the Prophets: "Did you offer Me slaughtered animals
and sacrifices during forty years in the wilderness,
O house of Israel?
Acts 26:21-23
For these reasons the Jews seized me in
the temple and tried to kill me. Therefore,
having obtained help from God, to this day I
stand, witnessing both to small and great,
saying no other things than those which
the prophets and Moses said would come--
that the Christ would suffer, that He would
be the first to rise from the dead, and would
proclaim light to the Jewish people
and to the Gentiles."
---
Paul does -not- call the Law and the prophets
"Judaism" nor does he refer to the Law and
the prophets as the 'traditions of his fathers'
in fact, if you look here, you'll see that
Paul conside4rs his 'former life' as a
pharissee as well short of the mark of God.
[[[Philippians 3:1-11]]]
and note here, Colossians 2:4-9,
keeping in mind that the traditions
of the fleshly mind is -not- Torah.
now, just look at what Jesus says
about these traditions and their
relation to the law;
---
Matthew 15:1-9 [parallel mark 7]
Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from
Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, "Why do Your
disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?
For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
He answered and said to them, "Why do you also
transgress the commandment of God because of
your tradition? For God commanded, saying,
"Honor your father and your mother'; and,
"He who curses father or mother, let him be
put to death.'
But you say, "Whoever says to his father or mother,
"Whatever profit you might have received from me
is a gift to God"-- then he need not honor his
father or mother.'
Thus you have made the commandment of God of no
effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did
Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
"These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips, But their heart
is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."'
Isaiah 29:13
Therefore YHWH said:
"Inasmuch as these people draw near with
their mouths And honor Me with their lips,
But have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught
by the commandment of men,
---
me:
Jesus gave several examples where those
religious had set aside the law of God
in favor of their own traditions.
spoke of "Corban" [previous cite] also
the assertion that making vows by the
Temple meant nothing but that vows made
by the gold in the Temple was binding.
[Matthew 23:14-20]
having a form of Godliness but bankrupt.
just for clarity, we don't say that
washing one's hands is wrong -but-
handwashing before meals is not found
in Torah, so, these 'traditions' do
not refer to Torah but to a law which
has been embellished by the fathers.
and Jesus clearly cites these 'jews'
for laying aside Torah in favor of
their own 'laws' and then quotes Isaiah,
a prophet of israel, as saying
the same thing.
so, Jesus, simply does not stand
in favor of oral toradic traditions
over and above of Torah,
and to some people, this
makes him, -not a jew-
Jesus was born in Judea to a mother
who was geneologically a Jew.
Jesus said he came to fulfill
The Law the Prophets and the Psalms.
---
Luke 24:44
Then He said to them,
"These are the words which I spoke to you
while I was still with you, that all things
must be fulfilled which were written in the
Law of Moses and the Prophets and the
Psalms concerning Me."
---
Jesus castigated those who stood
in favor of their own traditional
'law' above Torah.
those who hold fast to those traditions
claim that there can be no other type
of 'jew' and so, go about the task of
denouncing Jesus as anti-jew.
but Jesus is clearly in the right.
and his citation of Isaiah
is clear enough proof of that.
-Jesus- had not laid aside Torah
for his own traditions, -they-
laid it aside for -their- own law.
Jesus is not a -talmudist- [oral torah]
and so, a -talmudist- may tell
you that Jesus was, therefore,
not a 'jew'
---
Isaiah 29:13
Therefore YHWH said:
"Inasmuch as these people draw near with
their mouths And honor Me with their lips,
But have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught
by the commandment of men,
---
---
Jesus says;
Thus you have made the commandment of God of no
effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did
Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
"These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips, But their heart
is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."'
---
Praise Jesus. |
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| Timothy Sutter... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:22 am |
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Guest
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you must realize that "Judaism" is itself
some sort of "spin-off" religion that is
based primarily on the so-called
"traditions" of Talmud, or "oral torah"
here's a, somewhat, brief version
of a, somewhat, long story.
just focusing in on
a specific aspect;
what is "jew" and how
does it relate to
"Juda-ism"?
skipping ahead, Abraham's
grandson was named Jacob.
his name was changed to Israel.
Israel had 12 sons.
One son was named "Judah"
Judah means "Praised of YHWH"
so, after about 400 years in bonded
toil in Egypt, Israel is released and
is what shall be called a "nation"
this "nation" is comprised of
twelve smaller subsets called "tribes"
one tribe for each of the sons of Israel.
one tribe called "Judah"
now "Judah" is not just a son
of Israel but an entire tribe
of Israelites.
mind you, there are 11
other tribes of Israelites
who are not "Judah"
anyway, in aggregate, the tribes
get referred to as "ites" that is,
"Judah-ites" "Benjamin-ites"
"Asher-ites" etc-ites.
in hebrew, the term
"Judah-ite" is "Y'hudim"
and this term means "men of Judah"
so, that is what a "Judah-ite"
is, a "man of Judah" of course,
women are "men of Judah" as well.
so, that term is found in the
early writings of the hebrew authors.
"Judah-ite" "Y'hudim" "men of Judah"
alright, so, the entire people of
Israel, Judah included, rejects
YHWH as "King" and Saul and then
David is chosen from among the
people to represent them. so, now,
you have what is called
"The Kingdom of Israel"
oh, by the way, the "Levites" had
no land grant and were travelling
priests. that gets a mention in a bit.
so anyway, there's a lot of a lot of
erecting that cultural totem i spoke
of earlier, the "Baals",
and YHWH splits the Kingdom
of Israel in to two pieces,
The Kingdom of Israel with
capital in Samaria to the north
and the Kingdom of Judah with
capital in Jerusalem to the south.
well, first off, the tribe of the Bejamin-ites
stays south with the tribe of Judah, and the
Levite priests also stay south to have free
access to Jesrusalem and the Temple.
so now, you have a nation called
"Judah" which is populated by
tribes other than Judah-ites.
anyway, the Northern Israel keeps Baal-ing
and YHWH sends the Assyrians to cart them off.
a remnant of each tribe stays south and
the rest are all carted off in to obscurity.
anyway, Judah is now a nation
-and- one specific tribe.
so now, anyone living in Judah
is by default, a "Judah-ite"
and so, a Levite and a Benjamin-ite
and any of the remnant of Israel who
live in Judah are now, defacto "jews"
by the time of the return from Babylon,
much tribal integrity is lost and
all are called "Y'hudim"
not because they became members of
the -tribe- of Judah, but because
they lived in the -nation- of Judah.
which is funny in that Paul says he is
of the tribe of Benjamin, but refers
to himself as a "Jew"
but after Babylon, the actual
Judah-ites began to exert more
dominant role in Temple duties
than was granted under Sinai.
and -this- is the beginning
of so-called "Judah-ism"
anyway, there was an infusion of
Babylonian mysticism and later Persian
philosophies and later pan-Hellenism
and much later Rome, into this "religion"
which the Judah-ites had instituted
after they seized major control
of the Temple.
and there were people all along
who vehemently disagreed with
this influx of "alien" idea
strains into Temple worship.
and in Jesus' day, the Temple was
practically just a barter house for
the purchase of indulgences.
and people were sick
and sick people laid
right outside the
Temple entryway.
anyway, this is a sort of short version.
it is not correct to say that Abraham
was a "jew" or practicing "Judah-ism"
for the very simple fact that "Judah"
wasn't even born yet.
and it is not correct to say that
Moses handed the people "Judah-ism"
from Sinai because Sinai specifies
that priests shall come from
the tribe of Levi.
and Levi-ites and Judah-ites ain't identical.
there was not even a nation
called "Judah" when Moses lived.
etc.etc.etc.
"Judah-ism" pretty much begins
with the return from Babylon.
and no ark of the covenant was present.
no Mercy seat, no smoke
filled temple Holy of Holies.
and Antiochus IV Epiphanes spilled
pigs blood in the Temple and erected
a statue of Jupiter [or Zeus] in ca, 176 BC.
the Maccabbees drove out the greeks but
the religious Judah-ites in Jesus day
were so in bed with the Roman civil
authority that it wasn't funny.
and Jesus and Paul were not
erecting totems to demonic worship.
no.
sure, some 'looked' to the throwing off
of the yoke of the roman civil authority,
but -not- the Temple magistrates.
who were called "Jews"
albeit, not all "Jews" are "Jews"
"Judah-ite" "Y'hudim" "men of Judah"
in case it wasn't obvious, "Y'hudim"
is the word translated as "Judah-ite"
in early old testament stuff,
and then translated as "Jew"
beginning in Esther.
Esther, by the way, is where the first
"traditional" feast -not- ordained by
YHWH in Torah gets its foundation
that being "Purim"
commemorates Haman, a guy who
set out to kill all the jews.
so, is Purim evil?
no one has said this.
but you can begin to see how
a "religion" is beginning to
take form that does not trace
to Sinai, and, in some respects,
seeks to distance itself from Sinai.
like as if, Sinai is
the source of trouble.
some are simply dispersing in among
the greeks and if it's just a bunch
of words, then you can call light "light"
-and- darkness "light" and then claim
it's "light" outside at midnight.
and it's almost preferable to
not even mention the Name...YHWH
so, it's almost as if, after the Macabbees
people are staring into the sky and
pretending to make nice eyes for YHWH
in hopes that they can placate 'that Monster.'
only that Monster ain't a monster at all.
and David seemed to be the only one
who recognized the "tender mercies" of YHWH.
but he's also the one who pleads with
YHWH not to remove the Holy Spirit from him.
so, he knew better cuz he wasn't judging
what he didn't know and hadn't seen using
his sensual fleshly mind but judging spiritual
matters by and in the Spirit.
the valley of dry bones may walk again
but YHWH ain't your enemy.
YHWH is Savior.
-this- little story goes on and on and on.
anyway, back to Jesus;
Jesus chided the 'religious leaders'
of his generation for holding to the
"traditions" of men and laying aside
the command of God.
Jesus said that the 'worship'
of these people was 'vain'
echos Isaiah
---
Matthew 15:1-9 [parallel mark 7]
Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from
Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, "Why do Your
disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?
For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
He answered and said to them, "Why do you also
transgress the commandment of God because of
your tradition? For God commanded, saying,
"Honor your father and your mother'; and,
"He who curses father or mother, let him be
put to death.'
But you say, "Whoever says to his father or mother,
"Whatever profit you might have received from me
is a gift to God"-- then he need not honor his
father or mother.'
Thus you have made the commandment of God of no
effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did
Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
"These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips, But their heart
is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."'
Isaiah 29:13
Therefore YHWH said:
"Inasmuch as these people draw near with
their mouths And honor Me with their lips,
But have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught
by the commandment of men,
---
me:
Jesus gave several examples where those
religious had set aside the law of God
in favor of their own traditions.
spoke of "Corban" [previous cite] also
the assertion that making vows by the
Temple meant nothing but that vows made
by the gold in the Temple was binding.
having a form of Godliness but bankrupt.
---
Matthew 23:14-20
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense
make long prayers. Therefore you will receive
greater condemnation.
"Woe to you, blind guides, who say, "Whoever swears
by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears
by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.'
Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold
or the temple that sanctifies the gold? And, "Whoever
swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears
by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.'
Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or
the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20Therefore he
who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all
things on it.
---
me:
and now, considering Paul, these are human
traditions dressed up as a religion and
that's what Paul called "Judaism"
Paul equates Judaism with
"traditions of the fathers"
Paul says he was zealous for
the traditions of his fathers.
---
Galatians 1:13-14
For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism,
how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure
and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism
beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation,
being more exceedingly zealous for the
traditions of my fathers.
---
me:
Paul claimed his former life
was as rubbish in light of Christ.
---
Philippians 3:1-11
Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me
to write the same things to you is not tedious, but
for you it is safe. Beware of dogs, beware of evil
workers, beware of the mutilation! For we are the
circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,
rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in
the flesh, though I also might have confidence in
the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence
in the flesh, I more so: circumcised the eighth day,
of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin,
a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning
the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, these I have counted
loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things
loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ
Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss
of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may
gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own
righteousness, which is from the law, but that which
is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which
is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the
power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of
His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
if, by any means, I may attain to the
resurrection from the dead.
---
me:
Paul taught Jesus as Messiah
from Law and prophets
---
Acts 24:14
But this I confess to you, that according to the
Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God
of my fathers, believing all things which are written
in the Law and in the Prophets.
Acts 28:23
So when they had appointed him a day, many came
to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and
solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading
them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses
and the Prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 7:42
Then God turned and gave them up to worship the
host of heaven, as it is written in the book of
the Prophets: "Did you offer Me slaughtered animals
and sacrifices during forty years in the wilderness,
O house of Israel?
Acts 26:21-23
For these reasons the Jews seized me in
the temple and tried to kill me. Therefore,
having obtained help from God, to this day I
stand, witnessing both to small and great,
saying no other things than those which
the prophets and Moses said would come--
that the Christ would suffer, that He would
be the first to rise from the dead, and would
proclaim light to the Jewish people
and to the Gentiles."
---
me:
Paul does -not- call the law
and the prophets "Judaism"
Paul suggested that Christ set aside the
laws erected by the "fleshly mind" of man.
essentially, Paul as did Isaiah and Jesus
suggests that there was an element who took
it upon themselves to set themselves up as
the administrators of -a- 'law' in which they
used and abused The Law and command of God
to tie the people up in ropes and lift not
a finger to free them up from a burden
that -they- had layed upon them and
then even go so far as to blame God.
they offered a 'lisence' and
called it righteousness.
look very carefully at the next bit,
Paul is not denigrating the command
of God so much as he is denigrating
those who would assist in the enslavement
of people to the natural forces,
notice how he says, "puffed up
by his fleshly mind" in verse 18-19 below.
the command of God is -not-
the work of any "fleshly mind"
problem is that in an effort to establish
a righteousnes of their own they used the
command of God to enslave people and
-not- set them free.
neither entering into that freedom themselves.
but kindly do not ever again suggest
that christianity has borrowed -anything-
at all from "Judaism" as the two are as
far from each other as light is from dark.
the truth of the matter is that if
anything may be considered a "heresy"
it is Judaism, as, no longer are they
"chosen -by- God" but -they- have -chosen-
for themseleves a rightoeusness which
-they- have invented.
and "heresy" is a personal choice.
-we- don't -choose- how to be
righteous before God, no, God
chooses us in Christ and sets
aside and perfects us in God's
own craft.
---
Colossians 2:4-9
Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with
persuasive words. For though I am absent in the flesh,
yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your
good order and the steadfastness of your faith
in Christ. As you therefore have received Christ
Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built
up in Him and established in the faith, as you
have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy
and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men,
according to the basic principles of the world,
and not according to Christ. 9For in Him dwells
all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10and you
are complete in Him, who is the head of
all principality and power.
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision
made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins
of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried
with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised
with Him through faith in the working of God, who
raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in
your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven
you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting
of requirements that was against us, which was contrary
to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having
nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities
and powers, He made a public spectacle of them,
triumphing over them in it. So let no one judge you
in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or
a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow
of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight
in false humility and worship of angels, intruding
into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed
up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head,
from whom all the body, nourished and knit together
by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase
that is from God.
Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic
principles of the world, why, as though living in the
world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
"Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
which all concern things which perish with the
using--according to the commandments
and doctrines of men?
These things indeed have an appearance of
wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility,
and neglect of the body, but are of no value
against the indulgence of the flesh.
---
me:
be all this as it may,
Judaism is -not- the Sinai covenant
and even the prophets who spoke in YHWH's
name, see Isaiah above, was of the impression
that -someone- had set Sinai aside, broken
it and invented a thing of their own.
and still, Sinai is -not- the
Promise of God to Abraham.
the just shall live by Faith.
but that Faith will not lead you
into lisence and a repudiation
of God's own way of life.
and, in addressing this, i focus -primarily-
upon the "Judaism" that was in practice during
the time of Jesus and the first apostles.
Jesus maintained that "not a jot nor
a tittle of the Law would be 'done away'
till all was accomplished"
neither Jesus nor John, Jesus' cousin,
commended the religious "Judaists" of
their day for having properly -kept-
the law, but instead castigated them for
-their- casting it aside and bearing no
real "fruit of repentance"
so, more to the point would be to suggest
that "Christianity" more resembled the
'religion' shown to Moses and the
Israelites in the desert.
in fact it is rather pointedly stated in
the letter to the Hebrews that Israel
received the same -message-, only did
not receive it in Faith.
even then, it was said that most simply
wouldn't honor God and an entire generation
fell dead in that same desert.
a desert where they saw the flame of
fire by night and the column of smoke
by day and drank the water from the
Rock and ate the manna that fell
from the sky.
so, there is no evidence that Abraham
was promised anything in accordance with
some Persian system of philosophy that would
not be codified in any real manner for some
800 years -after- Moses and well over
1000 years after Abraham.
with this in mind, it is preposturous
to suggest that Jesus came as fulfillment
of Promises made to Abraham and foretold
by Moses -and- bring an 'offshoot' of the
very sort of philosophical system he
came denouncing.
see, when Paul says "have no confidence
in the flesh" and then runs on telling
people about his familial bloodline:
and John said;
---
Matthew 3:8-10
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.
And do not think you can say to yourselves,
'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you
that out of these stones God can raise up
children for Abraham.
The ax is already at the root of the trees,
and every tree that does not produce good
fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire
---
me:
there was a general 'understanding' going
around among those people that 'salvation'
was a birthright.
and Paul is saying;
"no, you are not born into salvation"
salvation is "of the jews" inasmuch
as they carried the oracles of
God with them. sad to say, by
and large, they rejected these
same pronouncements.
and Jesus had already said that you
had to be born of the Spirit, in essence
born a second time, to -be- considered
a Child of God.
so, they're just saying that
you can't lay back and say;
"i'm -born- to the purple and therefore
i can call myself "of God" even of my
behaviors don't merit such an identification."
a problem also experienced among
others who called themselves "Christian"
-they- became of the impression that God
had simply transferred the misunderstood
'birthright' of salvation to another people.
and such was not and never the case.
there never was any "birthright of salvation"
only that Jesus, the Savior, would
arise from the seed of Abraham.
with a Seed that God would provide
to bless all the nations
of the earth.
for salvation and the second birth in the Spirit
God sees no distinction between Jew
nor Greek male nor female nor any of
the other assorted human -physical- distinctions.
and this is already stated rather
plainly within the defining texts.
there's probably some more to add to this bit. |
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| Timothy Sutter... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:23 am |
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Guest
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----
Jonah 2:7-9
"When my life was ebbing away,
I remembered you, YHWH,
and my prayer rose to you,
to your holy temple.
"Those who cling to worthless idols
forfeit the grace that could be theirs.
But I, with a song of thanksgiving,
will sacrifice to you.
What I have vowed I will make good.
Salvation comes from YHWH."
----
the "difference" between YHWH
and Jesus of Nazareth is
a subtle one.
while YHWH spoke thru the Mercy Seat,
atop the ark of the covenant, the wooden ark
overlayed in gold made no contribution
to the speech emanating forth.
as YHWH conceived in Mary
the fullness of Deity came to dwell bodily
in Jesus and was Jesus, but, Jesus was -not-
a wooden ark which offered no contribution
of its own.
no, Jesus had something that all human beings
have and no wooden arks have, and that is
the neo-cortex and human mind.
the human mind of Jesus came in to complete
subjection and full agreement with the
personal God which is the Living God
which is YHWH.
giving Jesus that perfect and substantial
Faith thru intimate personalized knowledge.
the human mind of Jesus became an identical
representation of the personalized Living God
and the Holy Spirit, which conceived in Mary,
so identified with the human mind that was born
that the subsequent indwelling was received
with a hearty declaration from God,
"This is My Son, in Whom i am well pleased"
the mind of Jesus, conceived by the Holy Spirit
in the human being, became an exact representational
Image of the Mind of God, which no thing has ever seen
or fully understood, and when the overlay was sealed
by the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the symbolic
death burial and resurrection of the flesh,
no conflict was brought in to question.
that is, the mind of Jesus, birthed in the human being
by the Holy Spirit was a representational Identity
to the Holy Spirit who came to rest
upon the man's shoulders.
the 'two' were essentially identical,
and, as One, the Faith had no bounds
nor overshadowing even to the defeat of death.
now, -we-, the human beings, who are born of Adam,
see Jesus, that exact representation and Image of God,
as the doorway thru which -we- can become severely
United with God, as was intended from the beginning.
we could never identify with, or
thru, a wooden ark overlayed in Gold.
but we can commune directly with the human character
of Jesus, which has risen above mortallity, and dwells
within the unapproachable Light which is God's Presence.
that is -our- Saving Grace.
Identifying with the Presence.
at Peace
# no, Jesus had something that all human beings
# have and no wooden arks have, and that is
# the neo-cortex and human mind.
of course, Jesus, while in the flesh,
before the resurrection, ascension
and Glorification, like all human beings,
had a brain stem, that "ancient serpent"
with which to contend.
yes, the brain stem is said to bear
a striking resemblance to the
brain of a reptile.
and this portion of the brain
has very simple motivations,
among these are, nourishment, preservation
of life and protection of personal space.
Jesus, of course, was confronted with all of these.
we see an instance where a Tempter
called Jesus aside and questioned
these three;
"make these stones bread"
"throw yourself from the roof"
"all of these cities will i give you"
Jesus proved himself the master of his own
"ancient serpent" when he responded to these
confrontations with a pure reliance upon God.
Jesus' provision and safety was assured
through his all sufficient Faith.
now, we all have this ancient serpent to confront.
YHWH told Cain;
[excerpted paraphrase]
"sin is crouched by the door but you can master it"
and likewise, we all must
"rule over" and "master"
our brain stems.
with reliance upon God.
no, this doesn't suggest that you
toss yourself under the wheels of a bus
to prove that you have overcome the
instinct for self preservation,
it merely says that you, as human in
the image and likeness of your Creator,
are called to a higher set of purposes
which supercede selfish ambitions.
yes, we believe that Tempter is actual
but we also cite our own "ancient serpent"
in our own brains.
Jesus was master of his,
and you should be master of yours.
rely on God and do your part.
# Jesus proved himself the master of his own
# "ancient serpent" when he responded to these
# confrontations with a pure reliance upon God.
obviously self preservation
is not 'evil' in and of itself.
for God and man the point at which
one's own desire for self preservation
encroaches upon other's self preservation
and 'freedoms' is the point at which 'he'
is at a variance with "love" and so, at
variance with God, and we generally call
this "sin".
in the little societies man has set up,
the communities who group themselves together
under 'law' agree that each citizen is
allowed life and free space.
that is, by consensus, we cede each other
the right to be alive and to have free space.
and when we find individuals among us who
won't agree that each person is so allowed,
we call them "outlaw" and suggest that
they are living outside of the law.
is essence, the state institutes
a behavior that resembles "love"
it is true that the state is not able
to place "love" -in- anyone but has given
itself the ability to make each agree
to allow each other certain rights
and freedoms.
and so, if, while seeking your own self preservation
and free space, you infringe upon everyone else's
identical right, you fall out of love and break the law.
individually and in groups.
heaven forbid you should make the gods angry.
maybe you can agree that the 'higher powers'
haven't gone anywhere, that is, they haven't
disappeared from this earthly realm.
once again, the state probably isn't able to open
your eyes to the presence of the higher powers, but
the state can institute coded behaviors anyway.
well, it can and it does.
whatever 'it' is.
# no, this doesn't suggest that you
# toss yourself under the wheels of a bus
# to prove that you have overcome the
# instinct for self preservation,
# it merely says that you, as human in
# the image and likeness of your Creator,
# are called to a higher set of purposes
# which supercede selfish ambitions.
so 'self preservation' is a 'selfish ambition'?
well, yes, it is, that's exactly what it is.
"it's desire is for you"
and so, when you look to the benefit of others
and not just your own benefit, you cross over
into this land of 'good deeds' which prove
your love for and allegiance with God.
and, as you are proving this
even to yourself, your Faith grows.
mind you, -our- Faith is -not- 'blind'
no, we know the God in whom we trust.
and doing as we know is our aim.
mind you, once again, the state is not able
to decree this aim. the state can only decree
that you don't hurt each other. the state cannot
decree that you love each other beyond this point.
# and so, if, while seeking your own self preservation
# and free space, you infringe upon everyone else's
# identical right, you fall out of love and break the law.
# individually and in groups.
# heaven forbid you should make the 'gods' angry.
# maybe you can agree that the 'higher powers'
# haven't gone anywhere, that is, they haven't
# disappeared from this earthly realm.
you'd figure it was also obvious that a state can
become corrupted and hold up a favored class for
which it writes decrees to preserve the life and
well being of only that preferred class above all others.
but we understand that the Idea of Statehood is a
Divine one, and also, that the heavenly realms do,
in fact, pay attention to the State in the hands of man.
and so, your understanding of the rights mandated
to all people thru agreement, is also a responsibility
to see that the rights of certain classes are never
infringed upon by a state in itself.
lest THE State itself become annoyed
and strip away your veneer of Sovereignty.
cuz it can and has and will continue.
be aware.
# once again, the state probably isn't able to open
# your eyes to the presence of the higher powers, but
# the state can institute coded behaviors anyway.
# well, it can and it does.
# whatever 'it' is.
mind you, it's probably just as obvious that some
class of people cannot simply see a personal lack
and suggest that they are owed some sort of equality
of ownership simply because they feel they want that
equality. that could be construed as a subtle
form of thievery.
God will deal with the gluttonous
in God's own inimitable fashion. |
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