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| ThomM... |
 Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:03 pm |
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On Sep 25, 9:14 pm, "Carl Sagan's billions" <mm2te... at (no spam) yahoo.com>
wrote:
Quote: The intent of this post is not to judge, preach or convert but to let
other searchers/seekers know how I struggled, overcame, outgrew and
finally had to reject Christianity.
In my younger years I struggled and struggled for many years
trying to understand Christianity, God, Jesus, Satan, Genesis, etc.
I tried to come to grips with the basic doctrines, core beliefs and
ideas of Christianity, i.e., with the real essence of Christianity. I
tried to understand the various teachings and also the contradictions
in Old versus New Testament.
What is/was the truth?
<snip>
THe problem is there IS NO Truth in religion
No gods are proven to exist
No gods have proven their own existence
No human has ever had a provable communication with a supernatural god
And it appears that gods do not do anything
Religion was created out of necessity - for the "leaders" to keep the
masses in line. Remember that these people were largely uneducated who
believed that the earth was flat -- and the earth was the center of
the Universe and the rest of the universe revolved around the earth.
Somehow they decided that of all the living creatures on the earth -
large and small - they were the ONLY ones of value to gods as well
(After all - we use the others as food). The could easily scare these
people into line - or kill them in sacrifice when they did not.
Today - religion is no longer the way to control and govern - which
surprisingly has been replaced largely by control BY the masses of
people - and the average person is now better off than in the past.
We do not need stories of creators and gods and ogres and devils and
all of that nonsense anymore - and it should be relegated to the back
of Elder CHild's T-shirt - since he cannot speak anything coherently
for the front. |
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| Sir Frederick... |
| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:47 pm |
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'Humans' are not the measure of all things,
including 'intelligence, empathy, wisdom'. 'Humans' are a spurious
evolved structure, with a lot of evolved hubris and stories.
What is there, is what you get, pragmatic, but only marginally so.
'We' need some new functional stories, thank you.
This 'human condition' then, is the basis for 'our'
need and practice of many stories, some being
meaning giving. Deceit works, even self deceit.
Actually, any 'self' driven information structure,
such as humans or robots, will need the insanity
of such stories.
'Christianity' is a collection and practice of such stories.
Consider a study of neuroscience, neurophilosophy,
and neurotheology for a greater understanding of yourself.
Why do humans leave out of their understandings
that which is so central to the human condition,
namely, human brain structure and function (neuroscience,
neurophilosophy, neurotheology)?
A whole lot of folk talk and hand waving no longer works.
Are 'we' as cultures still that ignorant?
As to "Why existence?", that remains a mystery, thus a call
for more stories or just living with forced ignorance from
human constraints.
'Life' is a forced compromise. Practice what you will. |
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| ZerkonXXXX... |
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:03 am |
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On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:14:35 -0700, Carl Sagan's billions wrote:
Quote: In my younger years I struggled and struggled for many years trying to
understand
Your entire struggle was an attempt to reconcile external things and
events to ideal yet ideal can only be realized and given form, as it
were, first in one's self. This process will always result in conflict no
matter what the ideal might be.
Thomas Jefferson made his own Bible. He cut up I believe six bibles and
pasted only those parts he 'liked' into a single quite thin book. He
excluded the entire OT, for instance.
http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/
Your notion that Christianity began with Judaism is false in literal
terms. Judaism itself was based upon other religious ideas. It was not
'the very beginning' of anything. It was a 'legal' religion tolerated
under Roman law.
Judaism, however, is exclusionary. People excluded who wanted to worship
a god also wanted this legal status so they claimed themselves as being
derived from Judaism. The Christ personage, a perfect vehicle. This is
the reason behind word 'catholic' meaning universal. Anyone could join.
Then they, as is too typical in religion, claimed to be the real 'chosen
ones' of god.
Once you actually free yourself from what is called religion, religion
starts to become very interesting and, I can say, both it's value and
lack of it can be appreciated. |
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| John Jones... |
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:05 am |
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Carl Sagan's billions wrote:
Quote: The intent of this post is not to judge, preach or convert
But.. it is your intention. Isn't it. |
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| John Jones... |
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:06 am |
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Sir Frederick wrote:
Quote: 'Humans' are not the measure of all things,
Logically, necessarily, they are. How could it be otherwise? Have you
thought it out? |
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| John Stafford... |
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:06 am |
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In article
<116a0c1c-5c32-45e0-b486-8b6ae5ca3a37 at (no spam) d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
ThomM <tommadura at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
Quote: THe problem is there IS NO Truth in religion
There is no problem. There is no truth.
Quote: No gods are proven to exist
Proof is a recent human invention.
Live within the wisdom of insecurity and be happy. |
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| ThomM... |
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:54 pm |
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On Sep 26, 12:06 pm, John Stafford <n... at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote:
Quote: In article
116a0c1c-5c32-45e0-b486-8b6ae5ca3... at (no spam) d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
ThomM <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
THe problem is there IS NO Truth in religion
There is no problem. There is no truth.
No gods are proven to exist
Proof is a recent human invention.
So are gods too!
Lie withing the wisdom of PROVEN truth and be happy |
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| VoiceOfReason... |
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:02 pm |
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Carl Sagan's billions wrote:
Quote: The intent of this post is not to judge, preach or convert but to let
other searchers/seekers know how I struggled, overcame, outgrew and
finally had to reject Christianity.
That you cannot / will not / choose not to / (etc) reconcile
Christianity with science is your own personal decision, obviously. I
cannot fault you on your decision. But most Christians are not anti-
science loons. Most mainstream denominations accept the facts of
science, and adjust their understanding of their own beliefs to take
into account the fact that species (including man) have evolved.
It's only the lunatic fringe who are anti-science, not Christianity as
a whole. |
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| Frankie... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:59 pm |
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On Sep 26, 10:03 am, ThomM <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
Quote: On Sep 25, 9:14 pm, "Carl Sagan's billions" <mm2te... at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
The intent of this post is not to judge, preach or convert but to let
other searchers/seekers know how I struggled, overcame, outgrew and
finally had to reject Christianity.
In my younger years I struggled and struggled for many years
trying to understand Christianity, God, Jesus, Satan, Genesis, etc.
I tried to come to grips with the basic doctrines, core beliefs and
ideas of Christianity, i.e., with the real essence of Christianity. I
tried to understand the various teachings and also the contradictions
in Old versus New Testament.
What is/was the truth?
snip
THe problem is there IS NO Truth in religion
No gods are proven to exist
No gods have proven their own existence
No human has ever had a provable communication with a supernatural god
And it appears that gods do not do anything
Religion was created out of necessity - for the "leaders" to keep the
masses in line. Remember that these people were largely uneducated who
believed that the earth was flat -- and the earth was the center of
the Universe and the rest of the universe revolved around the earth.
Somehow they decided that of all the living creatures on the earth -
large and small - they were the ONLY ones of value to gods as well
(After all - we use the others as food). The could easily scare these
people into line - or kill them in sacrifice when they did not.
Today - religion is no longer the way to control and govern - which
surprisingly has been replaced largely by control BY the masses of
people - and the average person is now better off than in the past.
We do not need stories of creators and gods and ogres and devils and
all of that nonsense anymore - and it should be relegated to the back
of Elder CHild's T-shirt - since he cannot speak anything coherently
for the front.
**No gods are proven to exist
***God Himself have proven to be real true,and you have yet to learn
or know it. |
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