On Sep 14, 8:08 am, luchayana superfly del pseudomodo



leebertar... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
norbu:

Tang:
When one imagines that the whole universe is turned
into friendliness or compassion or sympathetic joy or
equanimity or earth or water or fire or blue or yellow,
all of that occurs only in one's imagination and not
outside of it (iow, the universe does not actually turn
into friendliness or compassion or sympathetic joy or
equanimity or earth or water or fire or blue or yellow).
Those states are called without duality, without limit
(advayam appamanam, advayam apramanam), but
they are *deluded* and not awakened at all, except
for the last of the four Divine Dwellings, equanimity.

Yep. They go into the the four formal dhyanas and the four formless
states.
These states were learned by Sakyamuni from his last two Hindu
teachers before he found liberation from suffering. They are
dangerously impressive, but they do not lead to liberation from
suffering. Another name for the highest is "the peak of samsara".

Buddhism may use suchlike voluntary adhesions, but
only as mere means and not as ends in themselves,
again except for the last of the four Divine Dwellings,
equanimity. While cultivating them (and this includes
the four Divine Dwellings), one has to contemplate
them as impermanent, suffering, no-self, etc., and one
has to *let go of them* and not cling to them.

Blue petaled lotus:
The pure sensation of mind!
Which jhana izit!?

There are a number of different traditions regarding dhyanas starting
from a blue lotus!
Those dhyanas are not the four dhyanas and four formless states
referred to above, which are the
basic dhyana and formless states which Siddharta trained in before
finding liberation.  :

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure & bright as this
towards the dimension of the infinitude of space
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of nothingness
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One neither fabricates nor mentally fashions for the sake of becoming
or un-becoming.
This being the case, one is not sustained by anything in the world
(does not cling to anything in the world).

Unsustained, one is not agitated.
Unagitated, one is totally unbound right within.
One discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task
done.
There is nothing further for this world.'

   - MN 140

from another translation:

"'He has been stilled where the currents of construing do not flow.
And when the currents of construing do not flow, he is said to be a
sage at peace.' Thus it was said. With reference to what was it said?

'I am' is a construing.
'I am this' is a construing.
'I shall be' is a construing.
'I shall not be'...
'I shall be possessed of form'...
'I shall not be possessed of form'...
'I shall be percipient'...
'I shall not be percipient'...
'I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient' is a construing.

Construing is a disease, construing is a cancer, construing is an
arrow. By going beyond all construing, he is called a sage at peace.

 from MN 140

Another stark statement of the uselessness of the dhyanas and formless
states:

"The Tathagata -- a worthy one, rightly self-awakened -- directly
knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, he does not
conceive things about earth, does not conceive things in earth, does
not conceive things coming out of earth, does not conceive earth as
'mine,' does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because the Tathagata
has comprehended it to the end, I tell you.

"He directly knows water as water... fire as fire... wind as wind...
beings as beings... gods as gods... Pajapati as Pajapati... Brahma as
Brahma... the luminous gods as luminous gods... the gods of refulgent
glory as gods of refulgent glory... the gods of abundant fruit as the
gods of abundant fruit... the Great Being as the Great Being... the
dimension of the infinitude of space as the dimension of the
infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of
consciousness as the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness...
the dimension of nothingness as the dimension of nothingness... the
dimension of neither-perception-nor-non-perception as the dimension of
neither-perception-nor-non-perception... the seen as the seen... the
heard as the heard... the sensed as the sensed... the cognized as the
cognized... singleness as singleness... multiplicity as
multiplicity... the All as the All...

He *directley knows*:

The Mahabhutas:
earth/solidity, water/cohesion, fire/temperture, wind/motility

Beings:
beings,
gods, Pajapati, Brahma, luminous gods, gods of refulgent glory, gods
of abundant fruit, the Great Being

Infinitudes:
infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, neither
perception nor non-perception

The Sensed:
the seen, the heard, the sensed

The Thought:
the cognized, singleness, multiplicity, the All

he does not cling to or delight in these i.e.,does not form notions or
ambitions about these, for such clinging is the root of the nidanas,
the cause of suffering. - nt.

"He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding
as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not
conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of
Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in
cling to> Unbinding. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has
comprehended it to the end, I tell you.

"The Tathagata -- a worthy one, rightly self-awakened -- directly
knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, he does not
conceive things about earth, does not conceive things in earth, does
not conceive things coming out of earth, does not conceive earth as
'mine,' does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because he has known
that delight <clinging> is the root of suffering & stress, that from
coming-into-being there is birth, and that for what has come into
being there is aging & death <i.e.,the twelve nidanas...>. Therefore,
with the total ending <of craving>, fading away <of craving>,
cessation <of craving>, letting go <of craving>, relinquishment of
craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the unexcelled right
self-awakening, I tell you.

"He directly knows water as water... the All as the All...

"He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding
as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not
conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of
Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in
Unbinding. Why is that? Because he has known that delight is the root
of suffering & stress, that from coming-into-being there is birth, and
that for what has come into being there is aging & death. Therefore,
with the total ending, fading away, cessation, letting go,
relinquishment of craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the
unexcelled right self-awakening, I tell you."

That is what the Blessed One said. Displeased <? some other trans
possible?>, the monks did not delight in <did not cling to> the
Blessed One's words.

       <for the Boss had just taught "delight is the root of suffering
& stress".?

     -  Majjhima Nikaya 1

"delight" above is a less than great translation for clinging/
grasping...when delight/joy/etc is a simple reaction we just look -
that is mindfulness - clinging to it sets conditioned-coproduction
(pratitya-samutpada) in motion, the 12 links of samsara, etc etc - the
jargon language way of describing it. The basic idea is you cook up a
story and believe in it.

Mindfulness is just look....just look...simple, honest, on the spot,
no baggage, no dogma -
Peacefulness-Insight lead to liberations, the dhyanas do not - they
are a dead end. The Buddha said so in the above quotes. Those are
Threavada quotes, but if you want Mahayana, Vajrayana, Ch'an/Zen
quotes to that same line i can post them.

  - hope this is interesting,
      - n.

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 05:18:15 -0700 (PDT), luchayana superfly del pseudomodo



leebertar... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:10 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 14, 8:08 am, luchayana superfly del pseudomodo

leebertar... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
norbu:

Tang:
When one imagines that the whole universe is turned
into friendliness or compassion or sympathetic joy or
equanimity or earth or water or fire or blue or yellow,
all of that occurs only in one's imagination and not
outside of it (iow, the universe does not actually turn
into friendliness or compassion or sympathetic joy or
equanimity or earth or water or fire or blue or yellow).
Those states are called without duality, without limit
(advayam appamanam, advayam apramanam), but
they are *deluded* and not awakened at all, except
for the last of the four Divine Dwellings, equanimity.

Yep. They go into the the four formal dhyanas and the four formless
states.
These states were learned by Sakyamuni from his last two Hindu
teachers before he found liberation from suffering. They are
dangerously impressive, but they do not lead to liberation from
suffering. Another name for the highest is "the peak of samsara".

Buddhism may use suchlike voluntary adhesions, but
only as mere means and not as ends in themselves,
again except for the last of the four Divine Dwellings,
equanimity. While cultivating them (and this includes
the four Divine Dwellings), one has to contemplate
them as impermanent, suffering, no-self, etc., and one
has to *let go of them* and not cling to them.

Blue petaled lotus:
The pure sensation of mind!
Which jhana izit!?

There are a number of different traditions regarding dhyanas starting
from a blue lotus!
Those dhyanas are not the four dhyanas and four formless states
referred to above, which are the
basic dhyana and formless states which Siddharta trained in before
finding liberation.  :

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure & bright as this
towards the dimension of the infinitude of space
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of nothingness
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One neither fabricates nor mentally fashions for the sake of becoming
or un-becoming.
This being the case, one is not sustained by anything in the world
(does not cling to anything in the world).

Unsustained, one is not agitated.
Unagitated, one is totally unbound right within.
One discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task
done.
There is nothing further for this world.'

   - MN 140

from another translation:

"'He has been stilled where the currents of construing do not flow.
And when the currents of construing do not flow, he is said to be a
sage at peace.' Thus it was said. With reference to what was it said?

'I am' is a construing.
'I am this' is a construing.
'I shall be' is a construing.
'I shall not be'...
'I shall be possessed of form'...
'I shall not be possessed of form'...
'I shall be percipient'...
'I shall not be percipient'...
'I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient' is a construing.

Construing is a disease, construing is a cancer, construing is an
arrow. By going beyond all construing, he is called a sage at peace.

 from MN 140

Another stark statement of the uselessness of the dhyanas and formless
states:

"The Tathagata -- a worthy one, rightly self-awakened -- directly
knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, he does not
conceive things about earth, does not conceive things in earth, does
not conceive things coming out of earth, does not conceive earth as
'mine,' does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because the Tathagata
has comprehended it to the end, I tell you.

"He directly knows water as water... fire as fire... wind as wind...
beings as beings... gods as gods... Pajapati as Pajapati... Brahma as
Brahma... the luminous gods as luminous gods... the gods of refulgent
glory as gods of refulgent glory... the gods of abundant fruit as the
gods of abundant fruit... the Great Being as the Great Being... the
dimension of the infinitude of space as the dimension of the
infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of
consciousness as the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness...
the dimension of nothingness as the dimension of nothingness... the
dimension of neither-perception-nor-non-perception as the dimension of
neither-perception-nor-non-perception... the seen as the seen... the
heard as the heard... the sensed as the sensed... the cognized as the
cognized... singleness as singleness... multiplicity as
multiplicity... the All as the All...

He *directley knows*:

The Mahabhutas:
earth/solidity, water/cohesion, fire/temperture, wind/motility

Beings:
beings,
gods, Pajapati, Brahma, luminous gods, gods of refulgent glory, gods
of abundant fruit, the Great Being

Infinitudes:
infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, neither
perception nor non-perception

The Sensed:
the seen, the heard, the sensed

The Thought:
the cognized, singleness, multiplicity, the All

he does not cling to or delight in these i.e.,does not form notions or
ambitions about these, for such clinging is the root of the nidanas,
the cause of suffering. - nt.

"He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding
as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not
conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of
Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in
cling to> Unbinding. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has
comprehended it to the end, I tell you.

"The Tathagata -- a worthy one, rightly self-awakened -- directly
knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, he does not
conceive things about earth, does not conceive things in earth, does
not conceive things coming out of earth, does not conceive earth as
'mine,' does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because he has known
that delight <clinging> is the root of suffering & stress, that from
coming-into-being there is birth, and that for what has come into
being there is aging & death <i.e.,the twelve nidanas...>. Therefore,
with the total ending <of craving>, fading away <of craving>,
cessation <of craving>, letting go <of craving>, relinquishment of
craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the unexcelled right
self-awakening, I tell you.

"He directly knows water as water... the All as the All...

"He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding
as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not
conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of
Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in
Unbinding. Why is that? Because he has known that delight is the root
of suffering & stress, that from coming-into-being there is birth, and
that for what has come into being there is aging & death. Therefore,
with the total ending, fading away, cessation, letting go,
relinquishment of craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the
unexcelled right self-awakening, I tell you."

That is what the Blessed One said. Displeased <? some other trans
possible?>, the monks did not delight in <did not cling to> the
Blessed One's words.

       <for the Boss had just taught "delight is the root of suffering
& stress".?

     -  Majjhima Nikaya 1

"delight" above is a less than great translation for clinging/
grasping...when delight/joy/etc is a simple reaction we just look -
that is mindfulness - clinging to it sets conditioned-coproduction
(pratitya-samutpada) in motion, the 12 links of samsara, etc etc - the
jargon language way of describing it. The basic idea is you cook up a
story and believe in it.

Mindfulness is just look....just look...simple, honest, on the spot,
no baggage, no dogma -
Peacefulness-Insight lead to liberations, the dhyanas do not - they
are a dead end. The Buddha said so in the above quotes. Those are
Threavada quotes, but if you want Mahayana, Vajrayana, Ch'an/Zen
quotes to that same line i can post them.

  - hope this is interesting,
      - n.

Very.

Would it be too succinct - or wrong - to condense the above teaching
that the quintessential stateless state is the dropping of all forms,
actions and intents, a stateless state that experiences essence
directly?

Don't try to understand (mentate) it.
That makes for limit and desire.

WRT to lotus meditative states, these are not the Jhanas the Buddha
taught. I've read many conflicting statements about them and samadhi,
leading me to believe that many people are not fully versed in the
myriad qualia of Mind possible during meditation.

The conclusion that any altered state is just as impermanent and
transient as anything else seems to me almost a given, but the
tendency to elevate them into Attainments seems a common temptation.

Curious though: Feeling the sensation of Mind itself as a zillion-
petaled blue energy lotus, what *is* that anyway? :-)

A visualization, an interpretation, an abstract mentation.

Mort wrote:

      <smip

ayayy.  i wish i was full of common book knowledge we might have a
better conversation.  i find most things out for myself and then
correlate ideas.  maybe about 3 years since i seriously read anything,
and what i used to read was still very filtered as i only took in what
i understood intimately or sought after to help.  almost anything
anyone has written passes from interest after a sentence or 2.  but i
like stories and how i can learn from them in the way that i read or
watch.  anyway i am always feeling the lack of knowledge that is
severely imbalanced by my own logical capacity being far past the
genius mark.

Ummmm....  in which direction?

Wally

On Sep 15, 7:10 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 14, 8:08 am, luchayana superfly del pseudomodo



leebertar... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
norbu:

Tang:
When one imagines that the whole universe is turned
into friendliness or compassion or sympathetic joy or
equanimity or earth or water or fire or blue or yellow,
all of that occurs only in one's imagination and not
outside of it (iow, the universe does not actually turn
into friendliness or compassion or sympathetic joy or
equanimity or earth or water or fire or blue or yellow).
Those states are called without duality, without limit
(advayam appamanam, advayam apramanam), but
they are *deluded* and not awakened at all, except
for the last of the four Divine Dwellings, equanimity.

Yep. They go into the the four formal dhyanas and the four formless
states.
These states were learned by Sakyamuni from his last two Hindu
teachers before he found liberation from suffering. They are
dangerously impressive, but they do not lead to liberation from
suffering. Another name for the highest is "the peak of samsara".

Buddhism may use suchlike voluntary adhesions, but
only as mere means and not as ends in themselves,
again except for the last of the four Divine Dwellings,
equanimity. While cultivating them (and this includes
the four Divine Dwellings), one has to contemplate
them as impermanent, suffering, no-self, etc., and one
has to *let go of them* and not cling to them.

Blue petaled lotus:
The pure sensation of mind!
Which jhana izit!?

There are a number of different traditions regarding dhyanas starting
from a blue lotus!
Those dhyanas are not the four dhyanas and four formless states
referred to above, which are the
basic dhyana and formless states which Siddharta trained in before
finding liberation.  :

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure & bright as this
towards the dimension of the infinitude of space
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of nothingness
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One discerns that

If I were to direct equanimity as pure and bright as this
towards the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception
and to develop the mind along those lines,
that would be fabricated.

One neither fabricates nor mentally fashions for the sake of becoming
or un-becoming.
This being the case, one is not sustained by anything in the world
(does not cling to anything in the world).

Unsustained, one is not agitated.
Unagitated, one is totally unbound right within.
One discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task
done.
There is nothing further for this world.'

   - MN 140

from another translation:

"'He has been stilled where the currents of construing do not flow.
And when the currents of construing do not flow, he is said to be a
sage at peace.' Thus it was said. With reference to what was it said?

'I am' is a construing.
'I am this' is a construing.
'I shall be' is a construing.
'I shall not be'...
'I shall be possessed of form'...
'I shall not be possessed of form'...
'I shall be percipient'...
'I shall not be percipient'...
'I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient' is a construing.

Construing is a disease, construing is a cancer, construing is an
arrow. By going beyond all construing, he is called a sage at peace.

 from MN 140

Another stark statement of the uselessness of the dhyanas and formless
states:

"The Tathagata -- a worthy one, rightly self-awakened -- directly
knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, he does not
conceive things about earth, does not conceive things in earth, does
not conceive things coming out of earth, does not conceive earth as
'mine,' does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because the Tathagata
has comprehended it to the end, I tell you.

"He directly knows water as water... fire as fire... wind as wind...
beings as beings... gods as gods... Pajapati as Pajapati... Brahma as
Brahma... the luminous gods as luminous gods... the gods of refulgent
glory as gods of refulgent glory... the gods of abundant fruit as the
gods of abundant fruit... the Great Being as the Great Being... the
dimension of the infinitude of space as the dimension of the
infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of
consciousness as the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness...
the dimension of nothingness as the dimension of nothingness... the
dimension of neither-perception-nor-non-perception as the dimension of
neither-perception-nor-non-perception... the seen as the seen... the
heard as the heard... the sensed as the sensed... the cognized as the
cognized... singleness as singleness... multiplicity as
multiplicity... the All as the All...

He *directley knows*:

The Mahabhutas:
earth/solidity, water/cohesion, fire/temperture, wind/motility

Beings:
beings,
gods, Pajapati, Brahma, luminous gods, gods of refulgent glory, gods
of abundant fruit, the Great Being

Infinitudes:
infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, neither
perception nor non-perception

The Sensed:
the seen, the heard, the sensed

The Thought:
the cognized, singleness, multiplicity, the All

he does not cling to or delight in these i.e.,does not form notions or
ambitions about these, for such clinging is the root of the nidanas,
the cause of suffering. - nt.

"He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding
as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not
conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of
Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in
cling to> Unbinding. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has
comprehended it to the end, I tell you.

"The Tathagata -- a worthy one, rightly self-awakened -- directly
knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, he does not
conceive things about earth, does not conceive things in earth, does
not conceive things coming out of earth, does not conceive earth as
'mine,' does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because he has known
that delight <clinging> is the root of suffering & stress, that from
coming-into-being there is birth, and that for what has come into
being there is aging & death <i.e.,the twelve nidanas...>. Therefore,
with the total ending <of craving>, fading away <of craving>,
cessation <of craving>, letting go <of craving>, relinquishment of
craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the unexcelled right
self-awakening, I tell you.

"He directly knows water as water... the All as the All...

"He directly knows Unbinding as Unbinding. Directly knowing Unbinding
as Unbinding, he does not conceive things about Unbinding, does not
conceive things in Unbinding, does not conceive things coming out of
Unbinding, does not conceive Unbinding as 'mine,' does not delight in
Unbinding. Why is that? Because he has known that delight is the root
of suffering & stress, that from coming-into-being there is birth, and
that for what has come into being there is aging & death. Therefore,
with the total ending, fading away, cessation, letting go,
relinquishment of craving, the Tathagata has totally awakened to the
unexcelled right self-awakening, I tell you."

That is what the Blessed One said. Displeased <? some other trans
possible?>, the monks did not delight in <did not cling to> the
Blessed One's words.

       <for the Boss had just taught "delight is the root of suffering
& stress".?

     -  Majjhima Nikaya 1

"delight" above is a less than great translation for clinging/
grasping...when delight/joy/etc is a simple reaction we just look -
that is mindfulness - clinging to it sets conditioned-coproduction
(pratitya-samutpada) in motion, the 12 links of samsara, etc etc - the
jargon language way of describing it. The basic idea is you cook up a
story and believe in it.

Mindfulness is just look....just look...simple, honest, on the spot,
no baggage, no dogma -
Peacefulness-Insight lead to liberations, the dhyanas do not - they
are a dead end. The Buddha said so in the above quotes. Those are
Threavada quotes, but if you want Mahayana, Vajrayana, Ch'an/Zen
quotes to that same line i can post them.

  - hope this is interesting,
      - n.

Very.

Would it be too succinct - or wrong - to condense the above teaching
that the quintessential stateless state is the dropping of all forms,
actions and intents, a stateless state that experiences essence
directly?

WRT to lotus meditative states, these are not the Jhanas the Buddha
taught. I've read many conflicting statements about them and samadhi,
leading me to believe that many people are not fully versed in the
myriad qualia of Mind possible during meditation.

The conclusion that any altered state is just as impermanent and
transient as anything else seems to me almost a given, but the
tendency to elevate them into Attainments seems a common temptation.

Curious though: Feeling the sensation of Mind itself as a zillion-
petaled blue energy lotus, what *is* that anyway? :-)

/leebert

On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:





On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:

zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

snip

"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu

snip

Thank you norbu

Looking now
Being now
Smiling now

This is Moment

Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.

Now!

Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...

Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -

Before any idea of time...

But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...

Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...

i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it...

Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...

  - n.

zenworm wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:35 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:
zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu
snip
Thank you norbu
Looking now
Being now
Smiling now
This is Moment
Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.
Now!
Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...

Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -

Before any idea of time...

But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...

Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...

i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it...

Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...

  - n.

Moment is verb

being this is timeless
mind is irrelevant
abyss swallows all
surrender of survival is
being -of- not knowing
paradox is manifest
unknown is unknowable
Totality is present
there is nothing 'else'
Moment is Totality
the isness of Totality
seamless
instant
timeless
eternal
now being now being now
not two

Moment is verb

gag me with a noun

On Sep 15, 7:35 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:



On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:

zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

snip

"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu

snip

Thank you norbu

Looking now
Being now
Smiling now

This is Moment

Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.

Now!

Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...

Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -

Before any idea of time...

But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...

Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...

i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it...

Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...

  - n.

Moment is verb

being this is timeless
mind is irrelevant
abyss swallows all
surrender of survival is
being -of- not knowing
paradox is manifest
unknown is unknowable
Totality is present
there is nothing 'else'
Moment is Totality
the isness of Totality
seamless
instant
timeless
eternal
now being now being now
not two

Moment is verb

Don't try to understand (mentate) it.
That makes for limit and desire.

On Sep 15, 6:09 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Newage rhymes with sewage.... :-)

/leebert ( oh crap, am I gonna get it sometime later when I'm waxing
cacosophic .... )

luchayana superfly del pseudomodo wrote:



On Sep 15, 6:38 pm, Déjà Flu <cha... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
zenworm wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:35 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:
zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu
snip
Thank you norbu
Looking now
Being now
Smiling now
This is Moment
Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.
Now!
Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...
Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -
Before any idea of time...
But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...
Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...
i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it...
Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...
  - n.
Moment is verb
being this is timeless
mind is irrelevant
abyss swallows all
surrender of survival is
being -of- not knowing
paradox is manifest
unknown is unknowable
Totality is present
there is nothing 'else'
Moment is Totality
the isness of Totality
seamless
instant
timeless
eternal
now being now being now
not two
Moment is verb
gag me with a noun

But didn't he take his refuge vowels?

/leebert

no no no those were refuse bowels...

Did you like my vulture suit, btw?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxyUqI0cS8s&feature=player_embedded

I'm the one that got the liver. See the can of Goya fava beans
under my right wing and the bottle of Chiante under the left?
That's me.

possum wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:06 am, Déjà Flu <cha... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
luchayana superfly del pseudomodo wrote:

On Sep 15, 6:38 pm, Déjà Flu <cha... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
zenworm wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:35 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:
zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu
snip
Thank you norbu
Looking now
Being now
Smiling now
This is Moment
Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.
Now!
Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...
Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -
Before any idea of time...
But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...
Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...
i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it....
Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...
  - n.
Moment is verb
being this is timeless
mind is irrelevant
abyss swallows all
surrender of survival is
being -of- not knowing
paradox is manifest
unknown is unknowable
Totality is present
there is nothing 'else'
Moment is Totality
the isness of Totality
seamless
instant
timeless
eternal
now being now being now
not two
Moment is verb
gag me with a noun
But didn't he take his refuge vowels?
/leebert
no no no those were refuse bowels...

Did you like my vulture suit, btw?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxyUqI0cS8s&feature=player_embedded

I'm the one that got the liver. See the can of Goya fava beans
under my right wing and the bottle of Chiante under the left?
That's me.

a bit different to feeding the ducks.  Fu!!

possum

I just *knew* that feather was gonna give me away...

hya janjan

zenworm wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:35 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:
zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu
snip
Thank you norbu
Looking now
Being now
Smiling now
This is Moment
Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.
Now!
Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...

Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -

Before any idea of time...

But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...

Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...

i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it...

Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...

  - n.

Moment is verb

being this is timeless
mind is irrelevant
abyss swallows all
surrender of survival is
being -of- not knowing
paradox is manifest
unknown is unknowable
Totality is present
there is nothing 'else'
Moment is Totality
the isness of Totality
seamless
instant
timeless
eternal
now being now being now
not two

Moment is verb

gag me with a noun

On Sep 15, 6:38 pm, Déjà Flu <cha... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:





zenworm wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:35 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:
zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu
snip
Thank you norbu
Looking now
Being now
Smiling now
This is Moment
Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.
Now!
Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...

Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -

Before any idea of time...

But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...

Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...

i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it...

Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...

  - n.

Moment is verb

being this is timeless
mind is irrelevant
abyss swallows all
surrender of survival is
being -of- not knowing
paradox is manifest
unknown is unknowable
Totality is present
there is nothing 'else'
Moment is Totality
the isness of Totality
seamless
instant
timeless
eternal
now being now being now
not two

Moment is verb

gag me with a noun

But didn't he take his refuge vowels?

/leebert

On Sep 15, 6:09 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:





On Sep 15, 7:35 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:

On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:

zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

snip

"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu

snip

Thank you norbu

Looking now
Being now
Smiling now

This is Moment

Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.

Now!

Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...

Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -

Before any idea of time...

But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...

Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...

i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it...

Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...

  - n.

Moment is verb

being this is timeless
mind is irrelevant
abyss swallows all
surrender of survival is
being -of- not knowing
paradox is manifest
unknown is unknowable
Totality is present
there is nothing 'else'
Moment is Totality
the isness of Totality
seamless
instant
timeless
eternal
now being now being now
not two

Moment is verb

Newage rhymes with sewage.... :-)

/leebert ( oh crap, am I gonna get it sometime later when I'm waxing
cacosophic .... )

On Sep 15, 7:35 am, Marcus Nickerson <marcusnicker... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:34 pm, zenworm <zensp... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:





On Sep 14, 8:51 pm, brian mitchell <brainm... at (no spam) fishing.net> wrote:
zenworm wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:17 am, norbu_tragri <norbu.tra... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
"Just look, know/feel it without any filters, do not buy into it or
reject it or go nummmmb....
no strategy at all - sheer awareness. If you were ever told "Honesty
is the best policy" - that's what this. If you want find something
real, some sort of sanity, it has to start with you being honest with
yourself. So just look."
- norbu
snip
Thank you norbu
Looking now
Being now
Smiling now
This is Moment
Yeah, probably, maybe... but "just looking" isn't realisation. It may
be a prerequisite, but realisation is to explosively and
**comprehendingly** enter something utterly new. It entails sharp,
sharp cognition as well as awareness. I regularly feel that this
Tangist, quietist, "just looking" lacks some essential dynamism.
Now!
Now! is pretty good, but it carries Past and Future with it to define
it...

Traditionally there was a snap of the fingers -

Before any idea of time...

But if you try to sit and experience that it just becomes a hunt for
another fiction...

Just look at whatever happens helps the whole thought-emotion thing
let off steam and unwind
and rest - no resistance ... keep awareness of posture breath
etc...awake, not dozing off...

i think you have to sit through boredom and exhaustion and sleepiness
and yattering mind a few
times over the hours find posture breath and on-the-spot relax into
the pre-thought insight,
and then to let that go, no idea to continue that or re-create it...

Mindfulness of body, breath, etc...just simple...

- n.


Moment is verb

being this is timeless
mind is irrelevant
abyss swallows all
surrender of survival is
being -of- not knowing
paradox is manifest
unknown is unknowable
Totality is present
there is nothing 'else'
Moment is Totality
the isness of Totality
seamless
instant
timeless
eternal
now being now being now
not two

Moment is verb