The Text of the Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he
hold the catholic faith. Which faith except everyone do keep whole and
undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the
catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and
Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the
substance.

For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another
of the Holy Spirit. But the godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of
the Holy Spirit, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.

Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit
uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and
the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And
yet they are not three eternals, but one Eternal.

As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated,
but one Uncreated, and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is
Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Spirit Almighty. And yet they
are not three almighties, but one Almighty.

So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And
yet they are not three gods, but one God.

So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit
Lord. And yet not three lords, but one Lord.

For as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge each
Person by Himself to be both God and Lord, so we are also forbidden by
the catholic religion to say that there are three gods or three lords.

The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is
of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy
Spirit is of the Father, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but
proceeding.

So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons;
one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

And in the Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or
less than another, but all three Persons are co-eternal together and
co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity
and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

He therefore that will be saved is must think thus of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also
believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the
right faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus
Christ, the Son of God, is God and man; God, of the substance of the
Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of his
mother, born in the world; perfect God and perfect man, of a rational
soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching His
godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching His manhood; who,
although He is God and man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; one,
not by conversion of the godhead into flesh but by taking of the
manhood into God; one altogether; not by confusion of substance, but
by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so
God and man is one Christ; who suffered for our salvation, descended
into hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into
heaven, He sits at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from
whence He will come to judge the quick and the dead. At His coming all
men will rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their
own works. And they that have done good shall go into life
everlasting; and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he
cannot be saved.

http://www.kencollins.com/why-09.htm

Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh does not profit
at all. The words that I speak to you are Spirit and are life.

It is the spirit that gives life, not the Christ man of the flesh.

Not your lying Spirit which insiniuates that someone else claimed it
didn't.

You do realize that you are arguing with the words of the Messiah.

No, I'm calling attention to your abuse of scripture, citing it like Satan
to insinuate that someone suggested otherwise when they didn't.

It is you who twist the words of the LORD, Messiah to confuse the death of

On Oct 26, 12:44am, "Fred A Stover" <fsto... at (no spam) tx.rr.com> wrote:
guardian Snow wrote:
On Oct 23, 10:29pm, "Fred A Stover" <fsto... at (no spam) tx.rr.com> wrote:
guardian Snow wrote:
On Oct 23, 1:28am, stirstickhagios <tpa... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

10 Commandments = Law of Moses

We are no longer under the Law of Moses.

Thank you for sharing your opinion, I disagree.

We are free from the condemnation of the law being judges, not
co-defendants.(Luke 22:30, John 10:16, Rom 8:1). You aren't: "For I
testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor
to do the whole law.Christ is become of no effect unto you" (Gal
5:3-4).

You are entitled to that point of view also Fred and I still
disagree being that I am one with the spirit that created me, I am
worthy and made whole by that spirit and I acknowledge this by
serving with passion and belief as I understand it, just as you do.

It isn't a matter of whatever floats your boat. There is one truth
and there are lies.

Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh does not profit
at all. The words that I speak to you are Spirit and are life.

It is the spirit that gives life, not the Christ man of the flesh.

Not your lying Spirit which insiniuates that someone else claimed it
didn't.

You do realize that you are arguing with the words of the Messiah.

The Messiah died and was in the grave for 3 days. Do the dead raise
themselves or do we acknowledge that power which was greater then
Yehoshua known as YAHWEH.

The Text of the Athanasian Creed
Athanasius was wrong. So was Arianus. By the 4th century, no one in

On Oct 27, 2:43am, "Fred A Stover" <fsto... at (no spam) tx.rr.com> wrote:

Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh does not
profit at all. The words that I speak to you are Spirit and are
life.

It is the spirit that gives life, not the Christ man of the flesh.

Not your lying Spirit which insiniuates that someone else claimed
it didn't.

You do realize that you are arguing with the words of the Messiah.

No, I'm calling attention to your abuse of scripture, citing it like
Satan to insinuate that someone suggested otherwise when they didn't.

It is you who twist the words of the LORD, Messiah to confuse the
death of

I do not worship your Baal any more. I praise the name of YAHWEH. I
respect that you do not and I respect that you will not agree with my
understanding of the scriptures. You are entitled to that belief
system Fred and I feel no need to argue with you about it.

I do not worship your Baal any more.  I praise the name of YAHWEH.  I
respect that you do not and I respect that you will not agree with my
understanding of the scriptures.  You are entitled to that belief
system Fred and I feel no need to argue with you about it.

The problem is that you lie time after time after time, saying you worship
God while you are attacking His doctrines time after time after time..

I do not worship what you name, "God" that you look to in the
heavens.  I recognize the spiritual manifestation, YAHWEH and his
Torah that are the universal code of life.

If you really accepted Yeshua who identified Himself as Yah (Ps 68:4), you
would believe Him. You don't. You believe your deceiving spirit.

On Oct 27, 11:48am, "Fred A Stover" <fsto... at (no spam) tx.rr.com> wrote:

I do not worship your Baal any more. I praise the name of YAHWEH. I
respect that you do not and I respect that you will not agree with
my understanding of the scriptures. You are entitled to that belief
system Fred and I feel no need to argue with you about it.

The problem is that you lie time after time after time, saying you
worship God while you are attacking His doctrines time after time
after time..

I do not worship what you name, "God" that you look to in the
heavens. I recognize the spiritual manifestation, YAHWEH and his
Torah that are the universal code of life.

On Oct 29, 12:49 am, "Fred A Stover" <fsto... at (no spam) tx.rr.com> wrote:

I do not worship what you name, "God" that you look to in the
heavens. I recognize the spiritual manifestation, YAHWEH and his
Torah that are the universal code of life.

If you really accepted Yeshua who identified Himself as Yah (Ps
68:4), you would believe Him. You don't. You believe your deceiving
spirit.

A simple investigation shows that the context of "Yah" is simply a
title that compares to how modern men would use the word, "God". It
always says, "praise the name of Yah" but it never says, "My name is
Yah" it says his name is YAHWEH.

I do not worship what you name, "God" that you look to in the
heavens. I recognize the spiritual manifestation, YAHWEH and his
Torah that are the universal code of life.

If you really accepted Yeshua who identified Himself as Yah (Ps
68:4), you would believe Him. You don't. You believe your deceiving
spirit.

A simple investigation shows that the context of "Yah" is simply a
title that compares to how modern men would use the word, "God".  It
always says, "praise the name of Yah" but it never says, "My name is
Yah" it says his name is YAHWEH.

Your simple investigation is another snowjob.

Psalm 68:18 - 20
Psa 68:18 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive,

Psalm 89:8
    O Lord [Yah] God [Elohim] of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee?
or to thy faithfulness round about thee?

Psalm 105:7
    He is the Lord [Yah] our God: [Elohim]  his judgments are in all the
earth.

On Oct 29, 8:09 am, "Fred A Stover" <fsto... at (no spam) tx.rr.com> wrote:

I do not worship what you name, "God" that you look to in the
heavens. I recognize the spiritual manifestation, YAHWEH and his
Torah that are the universal code of life.

If you really accepted Yeshua who identified Himself as Yah (Ps
68:4), you would believe Him. You don't. You believe your deceiving
spirit.

A simple investigation shows that the context of "Yah" is simply a
title that compares to how modern men would use the word, "God". It
always says, "praise the name of Yah" but it never says, "My name is
Yah" it says his name is YAHWEH.

Your simple investigation is another snowjob.

Now that's not very polite Fred. I respect that you disagree and you
are entitled to your opinion but I stand by the fact that Yahweh's
name is recorded 6832 times in the Hebrew scriptures Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh.
So let us examine your evidence:

Psalm 68:18 - 20
Psa 68:18 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive,
You have received gifts among men, And even the rebellious, That Yah
Elohim might dwell there.
Psa 68:19 Blessed be Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated YAHWEH], Day by day
He bears our burden, The El of our deliverance! Selah.
Psa 68:20 Our El is the El of deliverance; And to Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh
[translated YAHWEH], the Master, belong escapes from death.

The context is the same as we would use "God" since Elohim means
mighty. It is clearly a title, not his name which is followed in the
next two verses.

Isa 42:8 "I am Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated YAHWEH], that is My Name,
and My esteem I do not give to another, nor My praise to idols.


Psalm 89:8
O Lord [Yah] God [Elohim] of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto
thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?

You make this mistake because you use a version of scriptures that
REMOVES the name of Yahweh.

Psa 89:8 O YAHWEH Elohim of hosts, who is a strong YAH like unto thee?
or to thy faithfulness round about thee?

With the name properly restored, we see the evidence that agrees that
Yah is simply a title while the verse actually spells out his name at
the beginning... notice it is asking who is a strong YAH... In the
same context you would ask... who is a strong deity.

Psalm 105:7
He is the Lord [Yah] our God: [Elohim] his judgments are in all the
earth.

Psa 105:7 He is YAHWEH our Elohim: his judgments are in all the earth.

You have added this word to the Hebrew text where you know it is not
written, shame on you for telling this whopper willfully. It's one
thing to have an honest debate but you demonstrate that you can't even
be truthful in responses so how can you claim any type of spirit of
truth?

I wish you well Fred but if you wish to continue to speak to me in the
manner that you are, you only demonstrate the weakness of your own
faith. I will not resort to condescending you in such a manner
because I believe you to be an intelligent person and possibly you
just made a minor error based on a another translators errors.

There is only ONE.

Mar 12:29 And Yehoshua answered him, The first of all the commandments
is, Hear, O Israel; YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love YAHWEH thy Elohim with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.

Here we have a direct quote of Deuteronomy so that we can have no
doubt exactly what is said in the Hebrew:

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love YAHWEH thy Elohim with all thine heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Can we have any doubt that Yehoshua made known the name of YAHWEH, his
Father's name.

Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, "Thus you are to say to
the children of Yisrael, YAHWEH Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of
Ab_raham, the Elohim of Yitsh?aq, and the Elohim of Yaaqob_, has sent
me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all
generations.'

This is the ONLY name ever given.

Act 2:21 'And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of
Yahweh shall be saved.'

If you would like to comment on this, feel free to add them to this
web page.
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua/web/removing-the-name-of-yhwh

Shalom,
*)
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(.. (.. (Snow(...*)

http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- please join
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If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is
really true, there would be little hope of advance.
Orville Wright

http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures free
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If history is any indication, all truths will eventually turn out to
be false.
Dean Kamen

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Now that's not very polite Fred.  I respect that you disagree and you
are entitled to your opinion but I stand by the fact that Yahweh's
name is recorded 6832 times in the Hebrew scriptures Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh.
So let us examine your evidence:

Exposing a lying blasphemer isn't supposed to be polite. The fact that both
forms Yah and Yahweh are used in scripture with Elohim to say LORD God
exposes your "simple investigation" as another lie.

One of the many grievous errors put forward by Christian translators
it that YAH is a name for YAHWEH.  In making this error they use
Exodus 3:14 where the name of YAHWEH is not listed but the explanation
of his name that is given in verse 15 but removed from virtually all
translations of scriptures.

You delete the verses where the Lord speaks of Himself as Yah Elohim [LORD
God] just as he speaks of Himself as Yahweh Elohim [LORD God] elsewhere, you
call what He says a grievous error, try to wash your hands of your blasphemy
by blaming it on the translators who simply tell us what He said, and then
ramble on about I am.

How many are you?