"1X2Willows" writes:

I don't need to, as the premise there could be such a correlation is
already flawed. Mind, I'm talking so-called Celtic spirtuality up
until 400 to 450 CE the latest. Whatever came afterwards is useless
anyway since it cannot be counted as uncorrupted anymore.

Well hey, you've got an opinion.

For myself, I'm suspicious of the idea of pure, uncorrupted anything.
The Celts, that multifaceted group would have also dealt with all
sorts of "corrupting" influences pre 450 CE. AFAICT

Elaine Stutt wrote:
"1X2Willows" writes:

I don't need to, as the premise there could be such a correlation is
already flawed. Mind, I'm talking so-called Celtic spirtuality up
until 400 to 450 CE the latest. Whatever came afterwards is useless
anyway since it cannot be counted as uncorrupted anymore.

Well hey, you've got an opinion.

Yep, and a strong one at that, because it's based on all available hard
evidence *and* other sources, some even of an UPG-ish nature.

For myself, I'm suspicious of the idea of pure, uncorrupted anything.
The Celts, that multifaceted group would have also dealt with all
sorts of "corrupting" influences pre 450 CE. AFAICT

Uncorrupted in the sense of Greco-Roman notions re: their anthropomorph
pantheon which was inhabited by stewards of their respective realm, quasi,
instead of the realms directly being viewed as sacred by the tribe and its
people. The latter was the 'Celtic way', at least in the region where I
come
from, proven. No representatives/intermediaries/place-holders required.
The forest, the well, the river *was* the entity to be honored.

Akins of that Ilk wrote:



Many places in Ireland bear the names of gods. Even Cerne Abbas in
England may be a place named after the Horned God.

That's funny. I can come up with about three hundred alleged
"gods" from the Continent which are really place names.

Ok you do get that that reference is for a place not a God right?

Elaine Stutt wrote:

-the well is seen as home of a somewhat transcendant entity, not
limited to simply being the water, which will respond to a
gift/respect.

later on again, yes, when polytheist ideas started to sink in as the
new thing to do. Needless to say, the effect wasn't quite the same
anymore. Anyhow, let's not forget the "my god/entity/protector is
more powerful than yours"-mentality of the day. When wars were lost
and people lost their independence as the result of it, a certain
voluntary
shift to the conqueror's religion is attested by all evidence in history.

Happened to the people of Ur, Egyptians, the Etruscans, the Celts, the
Romans themselves later on, the "Indians" of South America, Inuit, "Abos"
of Australia, Maoris in NZ, Samoans, Hawaiians, Pacific Island-hoppers in
general, Khmer, Asian folk that I can't even put my finger on and last not
least, Native American tribes of the Northern continent.

Notable exception: Tibetan Buddhism (so far; let's hope).

Vocabulary controls thought and as long as we are slaves to
poly- and monotheist terminology, we'll never get to the bottom
of the kind of spirituality our ancestors lived in their everyday lives.

I have no problem with going down to the river in front of my house
right now, 'talk' to it, interact with it, do a "ritual", leave an
offering,
what-have-you.

Just don't try to tell me his name is Danu or any other name of a river
somewhere else (and yes, this one is a "he") whatever that means.
Definite male energy. Maybe it's the dam which holds 'him' back.

Novacula Occami. I always find it astonishing how the evidence which
does indeed exist, goes to support what I'm trying to convey, once
this fairly little paradigm-shift from an entirely assumed
polytheism to clearly identifiable remnants of pantheist animism is
being
applied to the whole picture.

Yeah but can't a pantheist animism sometimes drift into a form
of polytheism?

only by outside definition

The Catholic church is monotheistic but their priests
are freqently horrified to see their parrishoners treating the saints
like deities. Why couldn't various Celtic tribes come up with their
own native polytheism? The shamens/spiritual leaders might not like
it that wouldn't stop it. I'd be surprised if some of the tribes
didn't have some degree of polytheism of their own devise.

Many places in Ireland bear the names of gods. Even Cerne Abbas in
England may be a place named after the Horned God.

On Sep 18, 12:09 am, "1X2Willows" wrote:
Akins of that Ilk wrote:

Many places in Ireland bear the names of gods. Even Cerne Abbas in
England may be a place named after the Horned God.

That's funny. I can come up with about three hundred alleged
"gods" from the Continent which are really place names.

You mean place-names like Lugdunum (Lyon) in France or Luguvalium (now
Carlisle) in England - both named for the Celtic deity, Lugh?

"1X2Willows" <nospam at (no spam) least.invalid>news:h8up0g$4l7$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net...
Elaine Stutt wrote:

Just a few things to comment on here for me.....

[snippage] snip again
more powerful than yours"-mentality of the day. When wars were lost
and people lost their independence as the result of it, a certain
voluntary
shift to the conqueror's religion is attested by all evidence in history.

Happened to the people of Ur, Egyptians, the Etruscans, the Celts, the
Romans themselves later on, the "Indians" of South America, Inuit, "Abos"
of Australia, Maoris in NZ, Samoans, Hawaiians, Pacific Island-hoppers in
general, Khmer, Asian folk that I can't even put my finger on and last not
least, Native American tribes of the Northern continent.

Notable exception: Tibetan Buddhism (so far; let's hope).

Unfortunately there's a significant shift here as well. The Chinese
government have installed a number of puppet lamas who support the Communist
party line and there is a certain percentage (25-40%? Not sure without
looking it up) of the population who accept them.

[more snippage] ditto
The Catholic church is monotheistic but their priests
are freqently horrified to see their parrishoners treating the saints
like deities. Why couldn't various Celtic tribes come up with their
own native polytheism? The shamens/spiritual leaders might not like
it that wouldn't stop it. I'd be surprised if some of the tribes
didn't have some degree of polytheism of their own devise.

Problem is, this assumes that *any* spiritual authority will be trying to
enforce its teachings from the top down as a matter of course.

Catholicism does this (although in spite of 2000-odd years at it, they've
still failed to eradicate all vestiges of folk practices in Europe), but
there's plenty of evidence that pre-Roman Celtic spirituality was from the
bottom up. Ancient tribal and ancestral practices were at the root of
historical Druidic thinking and though the Druids became increasingly
sophisticated over time--through building on successive generations'
knowledge and insights along with exposure and exploration of the practices
of neighboring cultures--the root practices were never lost sight of because
they were critical to the cultural identity and would represent the
unthinkable repudiation of the ancestors.

The problem here is not the subject but the approach to it. Western
scholarship is only beginning to emerge from the imperialistic
Judeo-Christian mindset that *all* "sophisicated" cultures' spirituality
*must* conform to the Greco-Roman model by definition or be dismissed as
"primitive." It's a fascinating although not always comfortable process to
watch and be a part of, but I fully expect there to be a completely new
paradigm in place in around 20 years.

On Sep 14, 9:10 pm, stonehengeio <stoneheng... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:





On Sep 4, 4:46 pm, Wyvren <baron_samh... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sep 4, 9:33 am, Noinden <noin... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry but this fails Ockham's razor.

With out proof (the manuscript) it can not be accepted.

Nonesense, things are "accepted" all the time without any
documentation whatsoever. This is why millions believe George
Washington had wooden teeth and the the Civil War was fought to end
slavery. It is why the Gorsedd of the Bards ended up being a part of
the Welsh National Eisteddfod, and why the Ancient Order of Druids
gathered at Stonehenge every midsummer for decades.

Not since 1988 when they were kicked out by the people.

Ps Ive decided to buy the Lebor Feasa Rúnda , and have a good read as
it is definitely Interesting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Sep 14, 8:28 pm, stonehengeio <stoneheng... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:





On Sep 14, 9:10 pm, stonehengeio <stoneheng... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:

On Sep 4, 4:46 pm, Wyvren <baron_samh... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sep 4, 9:33 am, Noinden <noin... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry but this fails Ockham's razor.

With out proof (the manuscript) it can not be accepted.

Nonesense, things are "accepted" all the time without any
documentation whatsoever. This is why millions believe George
Washington had wooden teeth and the the Civil War was fought to end
slavery. It is why the Gorsedd of the Bards ended up being a part of
the Welsh National Eisteddfod, and why the Ancient Order of Druids
gathered at Stonehenge every midsummer for decades.

Not since 1988 when they were kicked out by the people.

Ps Ive decided to buy the Lebor Feasa Rúnda , and have a good read as
it is definitely Interesting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Me too, I simply love reading Heretical Texts, Books on the Index etc
- thhe Forbidden Fruit !- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Nov 3, 3:59 am, An Coibhi Drui <photographerofkilke... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:





On Sep 14, 8:28 pm, stonehengeio <stoneheng... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:

On Sep 14, 9:10 pm, stonehengeio <stoneheng... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:

On Sep 4, 4:46 pm, Wyvren <baron_samh... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sep 4, 9:33 am, Noinden <noin... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry but this fails Ockham's razor.

With out proof (the manuscript) it can not be accepted.

Nonesense, things are "accepted" all the time without any
documentation whatsoever. This is why millions believe George
Washington had wooden teeth and the the Civil War was fought to end
slavery. It is why the Gorsedd of the Bards ended up being a part of
the Welsh National Eisteddfod, and why the Ancient Order of Druids
gathered at Stonehenge every midsummer for decades.

Not since 1988 when they were kicked out by the people.

Ps Ive decided to buy the Lebor Feasa Rúnda , and have a good read as
it is definitely Interesting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Me too, I simply love reading Heretical Texts, Books on the Index etc
- thhe Forbidden Fruit !- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 I remember reading " Fanny Hill " under the bedclothes with a torch
when I was fourteen - my father was strict about things like that,
lucky he never caught me, there's a certain thrill in reading a
forbidden book outsiide of the reading of the book at all !

 I reckon that fools here have sold dozens of copies of Akins book for
him, heh heh heh .

If they're not careful, Lebor Feasa Runda could become a cult
classic :-)

Cheers,
Michael .

Cheers,
Michael .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Nov 3, 4:11 am, An Coibhi Drui <photographerofkilke... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:





On Nov 3, 3:59 am, An Coibhi Drui <photographerofkilke... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:

On Sep 14, 8:28 pm, stonehengeio <stoneheng... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:

On Sep 14, 9:10 pm, stonehengeio <stoneheng... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:

On Sep 4, 4:46 pm, Wyvren <baron_samh... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sep 4, 9:33 am, Noinden <noin... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry but this fails Ockham's razor.

With out proof (the manuscript) it can not be accepted.

Nonesense, things are "accepted" all the time without any
documentation whatsoever. This is why millions believe George
Washington had wooden teeth and the the Civil War was fought to end
slavery. It is why the Gorsedd of the Bards ended up being a part of
the Welsh National Eisteddfod, and why the Ancient Order of Druids
gathered at Stonehenge every midsummer for decades.

Not since 1988 when they were kicked out by the people.

Ps Ive decided to buy the Lebor Feasa Rúnda , and have a good read as
it is definitely Interesting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Me too, I simply love reading Heretical Texts, Books on the Index etc
- thhe Forbidden Fruit !- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 I remember reading " Fanny Hill " under the bedclothes with a torch
when I was fourteen - my father was strict about things like that,
lucky he never caught me, there's a certain thrill in reading a
forbidden book outsiide of the reading of the book at all !

 I reckon that fools here have sold dozens of copies of Akins book for
him, heh heh heh .

If they're not careful, Lebor Feasa Runda could become a cult
classic :-)

Cheers,
Michael .

Cheers,
Michael .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I hope the clowns here likewise demolish my two books when they come
out, get a chain reaction going across the Internet, make a rich man
out of me - like Akins who is laughing his way to the Bank :--)

My advice : Akins should have his agent give Hollywood a buzz !!!

Michael .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I hope the clowns here likewise demolish my two books when they come
out, get a chain reaction going across the Internet, make a rich man
out of me - like Akins who is laughing his way to the Bank :--)

On Nov 2, 9:16 pm, An Coibhi Drui <photographerofkilke... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:

I hope the clowns here likewise demolish my two books when they come
out, get a chain reaction going across the Internet, make a rich man
out of me - like Akins who is laughing his way to the Bank :--)

Awww...youknow there will be no need for that. Your name and
reputation will kill any chance that even a moderately written book
would have had for success. I hear Kondratiev is still upset with his
publisher because of you...

So, who is going to give a review on the back of your books? You've
badmouthed everyone who might even lend it a shred of credibility.

Oh, you could always bail Arthur out of jail the next time he gets
locked up. I'm sure he'll review it for you then! Still might have to
grease him up with a few pints first.

On Nov 3, 4:41 am, Kent <kent... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:





On Nov 2, 9:16 pm, An Coibhi Drui <photographerofkilke... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:

I hope the clowns here likewise demolish my two books when they come
out, get a chain reaction going across the Internet, make a rich man
out of me - like Akins who is laughing his way to the Bank :--)

Awww...youknowthere will be no need for that. Your name and
reputation will kill any chance that even a moderately written book
would have had for success. I hear Kondratiev is still upset with his
publisher because of you...

So, who is going to give a review on the back of your books? You've
badmouthed everyone who might even lend it a shred of credibility.

Oh, you could always bail Arthur out of jail the next time he gets
locked up. I'm sure he'll review it for you then! Still might have to
grease him up with a few pints first.

A great start with my publicity campaign, thanks Kent - now could you
get the other Ogres to join in ?

Cheers,
Michael .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -