"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:7e12e695-1311-4a8e-8b74-4f1be88889d8 at (no spam) 2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 11:59 am, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:



randy wrote:

"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime,
but it is always *in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you,
and you refuse to pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't
prove there is no God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy

However - one not need believe in gods or religions to be honest - and
fair - and ethical. THat is simply humanity.

"Simply humanity" has, historically, included a wide variety of
religions, and very rarely atheism.  Atheism has appeared only where a
wide-spread political program has wiped out all other religions.
"

Atheism only appeared after science displaced most of the functions
religious superstition had.

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:8d0955eb-4e9e-4c97-8f6d-7b87c3f4f423 at (no spam) 13g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 12:16 pm, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:



"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:e729cec0-59fb-432e-a0dd-e4eef6f2ee7c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com....
On Aug 26, 10:36 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:45e47c11-3ce1-4eb0-963c-d7f21743f39c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com....
On Aug 26, 9:59 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:6rqdnQBiRYobwAjXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is
always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse
to
pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
randy

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"If that were true, no one would ever move from the class of
unbelievers to believers. But such movement is quite common by many
people all over the world, so your statement is proven false.
"
Theoretically what you say is obviously right, but in practice, you are
wrong.

"Are we left to accept your word on faith? Or will you be explaining
at some future time?"

Go back and read the post stating with "Access to God. . " It obviously
mean that you have to believe before you can believe

"That is not so obvious to anyone but you.  Here is another invitation
for you to explain.  If you cannot or will not, please say so."

I can explain yopur inability to understand my point.  You read the
statement as religobabble.  It sounds wonderful to you, but to an outsider,
it is nonsense.

TCross

To use our minds to recognize God is not "nonsense,

Really - prove it!

PRovide a list of all the things you can PROVE in a testable and
verifiable way - about a god.

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
randy

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:6rqdnQBiRYobwAjXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
randy

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy

"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime,
but it is always *in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you,
and you refuse to pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't
prove there is no God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy

On Aug 26, 10:38 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:
"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:McidnSodHsxb8wjXnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...





"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
OK, you have to believe to believe, right?
No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy
Real evidence, huh?

Do you need deities to be fair to your neighbor or love your enemies?

Maybe you will provide examples of your assertions. How does it work
with gorillas, flatworms, and bacteria?

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:45e47c11-3ce1-4eb0-963c-d7f21743f39c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 9:59 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:6rqdnQBiRYobwAjXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is
always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
randy

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"If that were true, no one would ever move from the class of
unbelievers to believers. But such movement is quite common by many
people all over the world, so your statement is proven false.
"
Theoretically what you say is obviously right, but in practice, you are
wrong.

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:McidnSodHsxb8wjXnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...





"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is
always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse to
pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no
God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy

Real evidence, huh?

Do you need deities to be fair to your neighbor or love your enemies?

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:e729cec0-59fb-432e-a0dd-e4eef6f2ee7c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 10:36 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:



"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:45e47c11-3ce1-4eb0-963c-d7f21743f39c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 9:59 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:6rqdnQBiRYobwAjXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is
always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse
to
pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no God.
randy

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"If that were true, no one would ever move from the class of
unbelievers to believers. But such movement is quite common by many
people all over the world, so your statement is proven false.
"
Theoretically what you say is obviously right, but in practice, you are
wrong.

"Are we left to accept your word on faith? Or will you be explaining
at some future time?"

Go back and read the post stating with "Access to God. . " It obviously
mean that you have to believe before you can believe

randy wrote:

"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime,
but it is always *in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you,
and you refuse to pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't
prove there is no God.

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy

However - one not need believe in gods or religions to be honest - and
fair - and ethical. THat is simply humanity.

On Aug 26, 11:59 am, Thommadura <tommad... at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:
randy wrote:

"Dan Listermann"
randy
Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime,
but it is always *in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you,
and you refuse to pay attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't
prove there is no God.
OK, you have to believe to believe, right?
No, I don't believe in hypnosis, propaganda, or in positive thinking. I
believe in real evidence, and in honest assessment should that come. In
the case of God, my conscience appears to be "quickened" by information
from heaven. I feel in all honesty it's the right thing to be fair to my
neighbor, to love my enemies, and to be exemplary in my Christian faith.
This is all a conscience thing, but for me it is *real.*
randy
However - one not need believe in gods or religions to be honest - and
fair - and ethical. THat is simply humanity.


"Simply humanity" has, historically, included a wide variety of
religions, and very rarely atheism. Atheism has appeared only where a
wide-spread political program has wiped out all other religions.

So what "simply humanity" are you discussing?

In fact - there are no statistics that show that thieists are any more
of the above things than non-believers are - and there are actual
statistics that imply that non-believers are more honest - fair - and
ethical


Statistics do not "imply* anything. You are attempting to draw
conclusions from statistics that do not support your conclusions.

(See the Barna Group - and the Jesuit Journal of Religion and
Philosophy)

Since there is NO provable information from heaven - I will dismiss that
one as unprovable - and therefore unknowable.

Since you do not define your standard or criterion for "proof," your
statement is meaningless.

And that is the same with gods - there is no proof. IF you want to use
the word evidence -the same evidence YOU claim for your god exists for
all 28 million other gods so far named by humans as well. Yet - you
dismiss most of them - for no PROVABLE reason.


Quit screaming about "proof" and get to work defining your terms. Do
you require preponderance of evidence or some other standard? What is
your acceptable range of evidence? Who is on the judicial panel?

If you knew a little of your subject, you would address these things.

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:8d0955eb-4e9e-4c97-8f6d-7b87c3f4f423 at (no spam) 13g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 12:16 pm, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:



"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:e729cec0-59fb-432e-a0dd-e4eef6f2ee7c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 10:36 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:

"Terry Cross" <tcros... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:45e47c11-3ce1-4eb0-963c-d7f21743f39c at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 9:59 am, "Dan Listermann" <d... at (no spam) listermann.com> wrote:

"randy" <rkl... at (no spam) wavecable.com> wrote in message

news:6rqdnQBiRYobwAjXnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d at (no spam) wavecable.com...

Access to God is a spiritual thing. But you must abide by the
conditions
He lays down for you to hear Him. He can speak anytime, but it is
always
*in His time.* If he should choose to speak to you, and you refuse
to
pay
attention, the fault is with you. It doesn't prove there is no
God.
randy

OK, you have to believe to believe, right?

"If that were true, no one would ever move from the class of
unbelievers to believers. But such movement is quite common by many
people all over the world, so your statement is proven false.
"
Theoretically what you say is obviously right, but in practice, you
are
wrong.

"Are we left to accept your word on faith? Or will you be explaining
at some future time?"

Go back and read the post stating with "Access to God. . " It obviously
mean that you have to believe before you can believe

"That is not so obvious to anyone but you. Here is another invitation
for you to explain. If you cannot or will not, please say so."

I can explain yopur inability to understand my point. You read the
statement as religobabble. It sounds wonderful to you, but to an outsider,
it is nonsense.

TCross