Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism,

Appledog <oliver.rich... at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:
Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism,

Counter-questions: Is being provoked, taking insults to heart, or feeling
reviled a proper part of the study or practice of buddhism?

 Supposing that it is (I see no reason why it should not be, but I make no
claim to be a student or practitioner of buddhism),

what (if anything) do the
study and practice of buddhism suggest, mandate, counsel against, or forbid
in the way of responses to provocation, insult, and revilement?  (E.g.,
my understanding of one strain of Christianity--of which I also make no
claim to be a student or practitioner, though like many participants here
I live where it's hard not to be awash in Christianiform phenomena--suggests
that at least that strain mandates "turning the other cheek" in such a case.)

Similarly (but distinctly), what does the study or practice of buddhism
have to say about "failure" (of, say, an altnet newsgroup, or one or more
posters thereto)?

On Jul 11, 9:04 pm, Lee Rudolph <lrudo... at (no spam) panix.com> wrote:
Appledog <oliver.rich... at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:

On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I
am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and
not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will
refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or
that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all
efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small."
-http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

Perhaps instead of insulting people and trying to get them to crash,
thinking that we are the masters of communication, we should just shut
up and listen to the enlightened people.

-

On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I
am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and
not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will
refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or
that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all
efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small."
-http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

Perhaps instead of insulting people and trying to get them to crash,
thinking that we are the masters of communication, we should just shut
up and listen to the enlightened people.

-

On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I
am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and
not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will
refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or
that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all
efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small."
-http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

Perhaps instead of insulting people and trying to get them to crash,
thinking that we are the masters of communication, we should just shut
up and listen to the enlightened people.

-

On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I
am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and
not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will
refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or
that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all
efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small."
-http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

Perhaps instead of insulting people and trying to get them to crash,
thinking that we are the masters of communication, we should just shut
up and listen to the enlightened people.

Appledog wrote:
On Jul 11, 9:04 pm, Lee Rudolph <lrudo... at (no spam) panix.com> wrote:
Appledog <oliver.rich... at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:
Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism,
Counter-questions: Is being provoked, taking insults to heart, or feeling
reviled a proper part of the study or practice of buddhism?

Were it to be, it would be only feom the standpoint of learning from
those who provide a bad example.

In that sense, it would be easy to consider oneself well within the
moral high ground when dealing with such people.

 Supposing that it is (I see no reason why it should not be, but I make no
claim to be a student or practitioner of buddhism),

Well, Lee - why are you posting here, if you're not a student or
practitioner of buddhism?

Well now look what you did.

Appledog, if somebody offers you a gift, and you refuse to accept it, to
whom does the gift belong? The alt.zennies are only playing, they don't
mean no harm by it.

Appledog is trying to become a
big old spiritual bonfire - stop trying to put out the flames, and
instead get the barbecue ready.

Don't make me come over here, again.

Appledog wrote:
On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I
am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and
not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will
refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or
that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all
efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small."
-http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

Perhaps instead of insulting people and trying to get them to crash,
thinking that we are the masters of communication, we should just shut
up and listen to the enlightened people.

-

I went on a walk through my neighborhood the other day.  The first time I
walked through a path a dog barked at me.  He continued barking until I
passed.

To the dog, his barks drove me away.  He continued to bark at me as I
passed, until I learned.

Why did the dog come to the conclusion that his barking drove me away?

Why did he continue to think that the barking worked?

Why did he not realize that I was just walking by?

What did I do to change the situation, using compassion, appreciation, and
respect?

-GPS

The correct answer is masturbation and cannibalism.
We share pleasure with others and those who are
difficult are eaten, adding to the common weal.

Appledog wrote:
On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I
am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and
not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will
refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or
that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all
efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small."
-http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

Perhaps instead of insulting people and trying to get them to crash,
thinking that we are the masters of communication, we should just shut
up and listen to the enlightened people.

The correct answer is masturbation and cannibalism.
We share pleasure with others and those who are
difficult are eaten, adding to the common weal.

--
Hidden Draggin - Gilbert Hanford
http://twitter.com/hiddendraggin

On Jul 12, 3:04 am, GPS <georg... at (no spam) xmission.com> wrote:
Appledog wrote:
On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I
am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and
not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will
refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or
that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all
efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small."
-http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

Perhaps instead of insulting people and trying to get them to crash,
thinking that we are the masters of communication, we should just shut
up and listen to the enlightened people.

-

I went on a walk through my neighborhood the other day. The first time I
walked through a path a dog barked at me. He continued barking until I
passed.

To the dog, his barks drove me away. He continued to bark at me as I
passed, until I learned.

Why did the dog come to the conclusion that his barking drove me away?

Why did he continue to think that the barking worked?

Why did he not realize that I was just walking by?

What did I do to change the situation, using compassion, appreciation,
and respect?

-GPS

Re you and the last message. There are dozens of people like you here.
If I spent all the time it took to patiently answer your questions, we
would both be dead and we would not have learned anything. If you
think it is unfair that I am going to ignore your questions, please
consider that in not answering I've opened up another door for you;
leave these questions behind and focus on the one complete truth.
Consider the questions that arise as the drops of water falling away
from that diamond stone, which is melting. Don't get distracted by
them.

And don't cut out newsgroups please - if you want me to read your
comments, I want you to read mine.

"Appledog" <oliver.richman at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5bceadb0-4acf-45df-b31a-594f4409f0b0 at (no spam) n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I
am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and
not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will
refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or
that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all
efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small."
-http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them is
not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

This is only from my experience, but insults seem to be about the
people doing them, not about the person who is the recipient. Therefore,
if an attack is verbal and not harmful to ones life or
livelihood, is it an attack at all? To respond to someone's words,
especially in kind, is sort of a silly pursuit when you think about
it very much. Other people's thoughts seem to be quite troubling to
you? If that is true, what a wonderful opportunity to address in your
own practice. Kitty

"Hidden Draggin" <ansa at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4e56m.9709$Uf1.2529 at (no spam) bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Appledog wrote:
On mindfulness training:
"Fourth Training- Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech
and the inability to listen to others, I am committed to cultivate
loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness
to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words
can create happiness or suffering, I am committed to learn to speak
truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope.
I am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain
and not to criticise or condemn things of which I am not sure. I
will refrain from uttering words that can cause division or
discord, or that can cause the family or the community to break. I
will make all efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts,
however small." -http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html

Question: Since provoking people, insulting them and reviling them
is not studying or practicing buddhism, isn't having this as a goal
really an admission of complete, utter failure as a Buddhist -
especially here on a Buddhist newsgroup?

Perhaps instead of insulting people and trying to get them to crash,
thinking that we are the masters of communication, we should just
shut up and listen to the enlightened people.

The correct answer is masturbation and cannibalism.
We share pleasure with others and those who are
difficult are eaten, adding to the common weal.

It's so simple and elegant. I mean unless we're the one on the BBQ.