Judaism is the spawn of an evil god, Yaldabaoth. In Gnosticism, the

In Gnosticism, the material universe is seen as evil, and the demiurge is
the evil creator of the physical world.

The demiurge is the God that created
the human body or flesh, since the flesh is evil then so to, is the flesh's
creator. Alternative Gnostic names for the Demiurge, include Yaldabaoth, Yao
or Iao, Ialdabaoth and several other variants.

The Gnostics identified the Demiurge with the Hebrew God Yahweh.

The misnamed "Gnostic Avenger" <mondos46... at (no spam) mypacks.net> wrote:

Judaism is the spawn of an evil god, Yaldabaoth.  In Gnosticism, the

     Half-truth.  In gnosticism this entire world -- not merely
Judaism but the heavens and earth generally speaking -- is
created by a very inferior demiurge sometimes called Yaldabaoth.

In Gnosticism, the material universe is seen as evil, and the demiurge is
the evil creator of the physical world.

     Gnosticism looks down on the cosmos as a whole -- not only
on its material elements.

The demiurge is the God that created
the human body or flesh, since the flesh is evil then so to, is the flesh's
creator. Alternative Gnostic names for the Demiurge, include Yaldabaoth, Yao
or Iao, Ialdabaoth and several other variants.

     Untrue.  Yao and Iao _aren't_ other names for the demiurge.
They're different beings in gnostic myth (lesser gods
sometimes said to be his sons) and "Ialdabaoth" is nothing more
than another transliteration of "Yaldabaoth" ("Jaldabaoth"
makes three), not another name for the same guy.  The so-called
"Gnostic Avenger" has no idea.

     Ah, now I see what his problem is.  Our pretend gnostic is
just cribbing from unreliable web pages, cut-and-pasting
whatever he found with a quick search.  Most of the stuff above
is borrowed from here or there.

The Gnostics identified the Demiurge with the Hebrew God Yahweh.

     Yes, the gnostics linked the demiurge with the Creator-God
in the Hebrew scriptures.  Rejecting Creator and Creation
places gnosticism in conflict with Christian and Jewish
orthodoxy, Islam, and various paganisms, not Judaism alone, and
the anti-Semitism that historically belongs to orthodox
Christianity is most often missing from the gnostic perspective.

-- Catawumpus

Do you have any information about an archon or demiurge called
Barbelo, mentioned in the gospel of Judas?

When Jesus asks the
disciples who he really is, Judas replies, "You are from Barbelo".

The Gnostics saw Jesus as an emissary from another hypostasis or
sphere, sent to enlighten those who were asleep. Heaven, a series of
spheres, was ruled by archons, a word that was strangely enough also
used for elders or deacons in the synagogue.

Gnostics were not the
only ones who percieved the Judaic God Yahweh as evil, Marcion felt he
was not the same loving and merciful deity as the Christian God, and
wanted to eliminate the entire Old Testament from the canon.
The precipitated the debate as to what was canonical and what was not.

Gnosticism was referenced by many church fathers in the second and
third centuries, usually under the appellation of "special" or
"secret" knowledge.

theologynut <sharonkathleenjohn... at (no spam) yahoo.com>:

Do you have any information about an archon or demiurge called
Barbelo, mentioned in the gospel of Judas?

     Sure, plenty, but Barbelo isn't the demiurge or one of the
archons:  she's a divine being in gnostic myth, beneath God
but equal to or above the other aeons.  The Gospel of Judas has
very little to say about her; she has a bigger role in the
Apocryphon of John (to give just one example), where she's said
to be the first emmanation of the indescribable monad, an
image of its perfection, "eternal among the invisible."  ApJohn
4:26-5:9.

When Jesus asks the
disciples who he really is, Judas replies, "You are from Barbelo".

     Exactly.  "I know who you are and where you have come from.
You are from the immortal realm of Barbelo.  And I am not
worthy to speak the name of the one who has sent you."  So here
Judas links Barbelo with the higher world that Jesus has
descended from, and Jesus recognizes that he's "reflecting upon
something exalted."

The Gnostics saw Jesus as an emissary from another hypostasis or
sphere, sent to enlighten those who were asleep.  Heaven, a series of
spheres, was ruled by archons, a word that was strangely enough also
used for elders or deacons in the synagogue.

     "Archon" was a standard Greek word for a governor, a judge
or other authority.  Matthew 9:18 indicates it was also
applied to Jewish leaders.  Both gnostic writings and canonical
texts use it in reference to heavenly powers as well as to
earthly ones.  In gnosticism the archons are evil, world-ruling
spirits -- demons, really -- in keeping with the battle
against "powers and principalities" mentioned in Ephesians 6:12.

Gnostics were not the
only ones who percieved the Judaic God Yahweh as evil, Marcion felt he
was not the same loving and merciful deity as the Christian God, and
wanted to eliminate the entire Old Testament from the canon.
The precipitated the debate as to what was canonical and what was not.

     I'd say Marcion is one of the gnostics, and of course many
of the gnostics were Christians, but I agree on the basic
point:  gnosticism rebels against the Creator (often identified
with Yahweh, the OT deity) and his Creation.  Christian
gnostics like Marcion argue that Jesus preached a different and
better God.

     Incidentally, Marcion assembled the oldest known
Christian canon -- it included one gospel and selected epistles
-- so unless an earlier one is found is looks as though
others added the OT just as they added other writings to expand
the Christian Bible.

Gnosticism was referenced by many church fathers in the second and
third centuries, usually under the appellation of "special" or
"secret" knowledge.

     The Church Dads didn't like the Christian gnostics, so the
phrase that they usually preferred was "gnostics falsely
so-called," avoiding any implication the heretics had something
worth calling knowledge.

-- Catawumpus

On Feb 18, 10:46 pm, Catawumpus <kimmer... at (no spam) fastmail.fm> wrote:





theologynut <sharonkathleenjohn... at (no spam) yahoo.com>:

Do you have any information about an archon or demiurge called
Barbelo, mentioned in the gospel of Judas?

     Sure, plenty, but Barbelo isn't the demiurge or one of the
archons:  she's a divine being in gnostic myth, beneath God
but equal to or above the other aeons.  The Gospel of Judas has
very little to say about her; she has a bigger role in the
Apocryphon of John (to give just one example), where she's said
to be the first emmanation of the indescribable monad, an
image of its perfection, "eternal among the invisible."  ApJohn
4:26-5:9.

When Jesus asks the
disciples who he really is, Judas replies, "You are from Barbelo".

     Exactly.  "I know who you are and where you have come from..
You are from the immortal realm of Barbelo.  And I am not
worthy to speak the name of the one who has sent you."  So here
Judas links Barbelo with the higher world that Jesus has
descended from, and Jesus recognizes that he's "reflecting upon
something exalted."

The Gnostics saw Jesus as an emissary from another hypostasis or
sphere, sent to enlighten those who were asleep.  Heaven, a series of
spheres, was ruled by archons, a word that was strangely enough also
used for elders or deacons in the synagogue.

     "Archon" was a standard Greek word for a governor, a judge
or other authority.  Matthew 9:18 indicates it was also
applied to Jewish leaders.  Both gnostic writings and canonical
texts use it in reference to heavenly powers as well as to
earthly ones.  In gnosticism the archons are evil, world-ruling
spirits -- demons, really -- in keeping with the battle
against "powers and principalities" mentioned in Ephesians 6:12.

Gnostics were not the
only ones who percieved the Judaic God Yahweh as evil, Marcion felt he
was not the same loving and merciful deity as the Christian God, and
wanted to eliminate the entire Old Testament from the canon.
The precipitated the debate as to what was canonical and what was not..

     I'd say Marcion is one of the gnostics, and of course many
of the gnostics were Christians, but I agree on the basic
point:  gnosticism rebels against the Creator (often identified
with Yahweh, the OT deity) and his Creation.  Christian
gnostics like Marcion argue that Jesus preached a different and
better God.

     Incidentally, Marcion assembled the oldest known
Christian canon -- it included one gospel and selected epistles
-- so unless an earlier one is found is looks as though
others added the OT just as they added other writings to expand
the Christian Bible.

Gnosticism was referenced by many church fathers in the second and
third centuries, usually under the appellation of "special" or
"secret" knowledge.

     The Church Dads didn't like the Christian gnostics, so the
phrase that they usually preferred was "gnostics falsely
so-called," avoiding any implication the heretics had something
worth calling knowledge.

-- Catawumpus

Depending on where you read about the creator god, s/he isn't
necessarily evil, but rather considered as unaware of its' own
creator.  I think the goal is sometimes to bring the light to the
creator god so s/he is aware of its' ignorance....Is that correct
Catawampus?

-Heideana- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understand the gnosticizing tendencies in the gospel of John to have
something to do with the fact that he de-emphasizes an apocalyptic day
of wrath at the time of the end--if you believe you have already
entered eternal life, something that scholars refer to as "realized
eschatology" as opposed to the "delayed eschatology" that you find in
the synoptics; AND instead of a physical ritual consisting of material
bread and wine, Jesus seems to stress a "living bread from heaven"--a
nonphysical, spiritual nourishment that doesn't require a ritual. My
understanding of Gnosticism is that it eschewed ritual and
hierarchies.

Depending on where you read about the creator god, s/he isn't
necessarily evil, but rather considered as unaware of its' own
creator.

I think the goal is sometimes to bring the light to the
creator god so s/he is aware of its' ignorance....Is that correct
Catawampus?