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Religion Forum Index » Jehovah's Witnesses Forum » Things Gabriel Doesn't Understand About Evolution #4...
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| Budikka666... |
 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:12 am |
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This is the last in the Gabriel/creationist ignorance series. Gabriel
never was much fun, although he did give me some huge, huge belly
laughs in his ignorance, but lately he's become really boring. It's
time to move on and show adman the error of his ways on the non-
existent Noahic flood.
But before I do....
Neither Gabriel nor any other creationist (as adman is demonstrating
right now!) has shown even a pretense of offering science (or showing
guts for that matter). Instead, they've quite predictably proven
themselves to be ignorant, juvenile, hypocritical, cowardly, content-
free liars.
As I pointed out in another post today, we've proven beyond question
Gabriel never did want an answer to his question. What Gabriel wanted
was something with which he could beat atheists over the head.
That's all he ever wanted and it's the major reason why I've gone to
extraordinary lengths to embarrass him with his dumb question. If
he'd been at all reasonable, I would never have hit back so hard and
dissected him so ruthlessly.
That's also why he was such a dishonest coward and that's why he
wouldn't go the extra mile. He knew as well as I did that if he once
went the extra mile, he'd lose his club and when we slowly but surely
took that club away from him, like the spoiled child that he is, he
didn't want to play any more!
This last thread is to address the issue over which Gabriel proved
himself the most cowardly - the issue of the definition of "type".
Gabriel, like all creationists liked to pretend to hold a scientific
exchange, but he and they are too ignorant to know what's science and
what isn't and how to employ meaningful terms for clarity and to
enable a real discussion to move ahead. As I mentioned, Gabriel
didn't actually want a real discussion and this is pivotal to what is
coming.
Here's a version of his question:
"Please show where it's ever been observed that populations of [rat]s
have produced, over generations (supposedly via mutations and
accumulation of small changes) animals that are clearly no longer
[rat]s. (And you can replace [rat] with any animal you wish)."
There are many problems in this question as I pointed out in the
twelve lies series:
#1 - http://tinyurl.com/6rsdrv
#2 - http://tinyurl.com/5zl5b8
#3 - http://tinyurl.com/5vf836
#4 - http://tinyurl.com/68bmab
#5 - http://tinyurl.com/6ra6yz
#6 - http://tinyurl.com/6eg39k
#7 - http://tinyurl.com/68bmab
#8 - http://tinyurl.com/6yk6bo
#9 - http://tinyurl.com/5gnbyc
#10 - http://tinyurl.com/5wrgaa
#11 - http://tinyurl.com/6g69jc
#12 - http://tinyurl.com/6kyv64
But what's important here is his use of "type". In the question
above, he uses [rat], but in other versions of the question he used
[cow] or [mosquito] pointing out that we could choose any type of
*animal*.
He never would respond to any question whatsoever that asked him about
using plants, fungi, viruses, etc. It was always animal. I think
Gabriel knew that as soon as he allowed organisms with much shorter
generational times, then his question would be eminently answerable,
and he absolutely could not allow that under any circumstances.
Gabriel typically used "type" to mean species or genus (although he
would never admit to that), but when he was challenged with some other
organisms, he changed the whole basis of the question so that it no
longer referred to a genus like rat (genus Rattus).
In fact, when someone challenged him with an example of evolution in
mosquitoes, he changed the basis of the question so that "type" wasn't
genus any more but family! When I challenged him with bacteria, he
went even further - he changed the basis from genus to entire
kingdoms! He then lied that he hadn't changed the question!
Do you see a pattern here? As soon as his question was answered, he
changed the question to exclude the answer he was given and pretended
that the question hadn't been answered! When we asked him for a
definition so we could give him the answer he claimed he was looking
for, he ran away!
What it boiled down to is his demand that we show him one "type"
changing to another, different "type", yet he would never define what
he meant by "type" and he kept changing what it seemed to mean. At
any time over the last four months, Gabriel's "type" could have meant
anything in a whole string of significantly differing Linnaean
classifications!
Whilst the word "type" is loosely used in science, it isn't a
biological classification. The biological classifications were begin
by a Swede named Carl von Linné, more commonly known as Carolus
Linnaeus. The Linnean system was developed by him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linnaean_taxonomy
(wikipedia is Gabriel's only intelligent resource)
In the Linnean system, living things are organized taxonomic ranks.
The fact that this would be impossible if there had been a one-time
special creation of individual "types" or "kinds" is lost completely
on creationists!
Linnaeus's system has been greatly expanded as biological knowledge
has grown, but in it's simplest form, it ranks from species through
genus, family, order, class, phylum, kingdom with many additional
groupings both without and within this simple list.
Gabriel's (indeed any creationist's) problem is that they don't grasp
this. Instead they talk of "kind" or "type".
"Kind" is a Biblical term which has no meaning in scientific circles
and most closely resembles "species". Since Gabriel and many other
creationists admit to speciation (and indeed, to evolution), clearly
Gabriel's "type" was not "species". So what was "type"? We don't
know. Gabriel was too much of a Gallus (genus: chicken) to ever
define it.
Based on the use of "cow" in his question and the fact that he evolved
from a jackass to a chicken, I'd guess that Gabriel's favorite TV show
is Cow & Chicken:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_%26_Chicken
But I've been asking him to define "type" for four months. He ran
away every time.
I repeatedly offered to do the Christian thing and go the extra mile
if he would only define "type". He ran away every time.
I guaranteed an answer to his idiotic question if only he would define
"type". He ran away every time.
This proves beyond all doubt that Gabriel absolutely did not want an
answer to his question.
But lets look at some of the examples of "type" that he chose and see
what we can learn.
One of these was "rat". But exactly what "type" is a rat? Gabriel
always ran away from such questions by ignorantly claiming "anyone
call tell what's a rat and what's not a rat" but as Gabriel's own
favorite resource proves, it's not quite so simple when you deal wit
the real world of science as opposed to Gabriel Whirled(TM) - a
fantasy land in which Gabriel lives as a recluse from reality.
We asked Gabriel repeatedly about this, but every single time, he ran
away. Let's see what his favorite resource says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattus
"Rats are various medium sized, long-tailed rodents of the superfamily
Muroidea. "True rats" are members of the genus Rattus, the most
important of which to humans are the black rat, Rattus rattus, and the
brown rat, Rattus norvegicus. Many members of other rodent genera and
families are also called rats and share many characteristics with true
rats."
In short, it's not as simple as Gabriel lied! We told him it wasn't
that simple, but never once did he learn, never once did he try to
learn, never once did he enter into any kind of intelligent discussion
on the topic.
That's what "type" of a coward and ignoramus Gabriel is. So are all
these the same "type"? What's a rat and what's not a rat, Gabriel,
and where does that genomic hammer come down and keep all of "this"
type over there, and all of "that" type over here? I repeatedly tried
to get him to discuss the genome and he repeatedly lied that the
genome has nothing whatsoever to do with it! LoL! Yet that's exactly
where the evidence of evolution is to be found. No wonder he refused
want to discuss it!
Another of his "types" was cow. This is equally confusing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bos_taurus
"Cattle were originally identified by Carolus Linnaeus as three
separate species. These were Bos taurus, the European cattle,
including similar types from Africa and Asia; Bos indicus, the zebu;
and the extinct Bos primigenius, the aurochs. The aurochs is ancestral
to both zebu and European cattle. More recently these three have
increasingly been grouped as one species, with Bos primigenius taurus,
Bos primigenius indicus and Bos primigenius primigenius as the
subspecies.
"Complicating the matter is the ability of cattle to interbreed
with other closely related species. Hybrid individuals and even breeds
exist, not only between European cattle and zebu but also with yaks
(called a dzo), banteng, gaur, and bison ("cattalo"), a cross-genera
hybrid. For example, genetic testing of the Dwarf Lulu breed, the only
humpless "Bos taurus-type" cattle in Nepal, found them to be a mix of
European cattle, zebu and yak.[2] Cattle cannot successfully be bred
with water buffalo or African buffalo."
So are all these the same "type"? What's a cow and what's not a cow,
Gabriel, and where does that genomic hammer come down and keep all of
"this" type over there, and all of "that" type over here? I
repeatedly tried to get him to discuss the genome and he repeatedly
lied that the genome has nothing whatsoever to do with it! LoL! Yet
that's exactly where the evidence of evolution is to be found. No
wonder he refused want to discuss it!
Another "type" was mosquito, but this isn't a genus, it's an entire
family: Culicidae
As Gabriel's favorite resource, wikipedia explains:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito
"Both male and female mosquitoes are nectar feeders, but the female of
many species is also capable of haematophagy (drinking blood). Females
do not require blood for survival, but they do need supplemental
substances (like protein and iron) to develop eggs. Prior to and
during blood feeding, they inject saliva. The Toxorhynchites species
of mosquito never drink blood."
So Gabriel (and you other creationists), is Toxorhynchites a different
"type" because it doesn't drink blood and it preys on other
mosquitoes? Did Toxorhynchites evolve from the blood eaters,
Gabriel? How did it manage this if the genome has nothing to do with
it as you have claimed at least twice? Or was it the other way around
- did the blood eaters evolve? How? Why would a loving god create
such a thing?
Did god create these individual species out of nothing, "In the
beginning"? If so, then why did he not create all mosquitoes to prey
on each other or to eat only nectar? Clearly it's possible. Why,
instead, did this creator choose deliberately to create an organism
which has, as an absolute *requirement* to prey on children, give them
malaria, and kill them? If this god is so dead-set against abortion,
Gabriel, why did he deliberately choose to slaughter literally
millions of children?
This is only a smattering of the issues of "type" which I and many
other contributors laid before Gabriel in detail and repeatedly only
to see him run and hide behind his mantric idiot question.
As far as I'm concerned, this topic is closed. Gabriel is a moron.
He's clueless about science. He's even more clueless about
evolution. He has no idea what he's talking about. His question has
been repeatedly, fully and solidly answered.
And we're still waiting on his apology to the thousands of Christians
he's insulted by asking it so blindly, so repeatedly, and so wooden-
headedly.
Budikka |
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| Budikka666... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:07 pm |
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On Aug 6, 7:29 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
Quote: "Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:47d39fb3-009c-432f-82fc-14d9025a1292 at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Adman, Gabriel and Martinez aren't the only creationist LIARS around.
Far from it. As PZ Myers points out atwww.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula,
creationist lying is commonplace:
http://tinyurl.com/5a2gv6
Budikka
of course we NEVER get lies from the science side. RIGHT? <smirk
Just like Peacenik said. The difference between science and creation
is that creation starts with a lie. Science starts with a desire to
find out what's going on.
We're still waiting for you to own up to the rest of your lies.
Budikka |
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| Budikka666... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:28 pm |
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Since Gabriel has proven himself too chicken to face me in this set of
threads, where real science is being discussed instead of juvenile,
discredited "questions", I may as well retask them as a showcase for
evolution.
Here's a tour-de-force in taking down another creationist lie:
www.stonesnbones.blogspot.com (via www.pandasthumb.org)
http://tinyurl.com/597ymq
carl Baugh is still pushing the mytht hat there are dino and human
footprints mixed together at Glen Rose, TX, USA.
Budikka |
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| JohnN... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 pm |
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On Aug 6, 10:08 pm, "Peacenik" <cnelsonpub... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote in message
news:hmrmk.6581$De7.2111 at (no spam) bignews7.bellsouth.net...
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:47d39fb3-009c-432f-82fc-14d9025a1292 at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Adman, Gabriel and Martinez aren't the only creationist LIARS around.
Far from it. As PZ Myers points out atwww.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula,
creationist lying is commonplace:
http://tinyurl.com/5a2gv6
Budikka
of course we NEVER get lies from the science side. RIGHT? <smirk
On the rare occasion that they do, they're quickly debunked...by scientists.
On the other hand, all creationists can do is lie, because their worldview
is based on lies.
Lying is a christian sacrament.
JohnN |
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| Devils Advocaat... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:00 pm |
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On 8 Aug, 01:16, JohnN <jnorri... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 6, 10:08 pm, "Peacenik" <cnelsonpub... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
"adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote in message
news:hmrmk.6581$De7.2111 at (no spam) bignews7.bellsouth.net...
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:47d39fb3-009c-432f-82fc-14d9025a1292 at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com....
Adman, Gabriel and Martinez aren't the only creationist LIARS around..
Far from it. As PZ Myers points out atwww.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula,
creationist lying is commonplace:
http://tinyurl.com/5a2gv6
Budikka
of course we NEVER get lies from the science side. RIGHT? <smirk
On the rare occasion that they do, they're quickly debunked...by scientists.
On the other hand, all creationists can do is lie, because their worldview
is based on lies.
Lying is a christian sacrament.
I wouldn't generalize to that extent JohnN, but it is clear that many
(but not all) fundamentalist/evangelical/bible literalist Christians
have a habit of lying when it comes to trying to prove the historical
and scientific accuracy of the bible.
Quote:
JohnN- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
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| Steve O... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:26 pm |
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"adman" <grat at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote in message
news:Bkkok.8671$XT1.6585 at (no spam) bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Quote:
"James Beck" <jim at (no spam) reallykillersystems.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.230b6a5d335885d698a75f at (no spam) newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
In article <1J3ok.9263$De7.2771 at (no spam) bignews7.bellsouth.net>, grat at (no spam) hotmail.et
says...
"Budikka666" <budikka1 at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:7363cdd1-8981-48ba-b972-ff456dfb6571 at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 10, 12:08 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3042902d-cbfc-4a7f-8c9f-e78409c8621d at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 8, 10:25 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:9042d03a-a54d-496c-be5e-c59cdfa8f0dd at (no spam) b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 6, 7:29 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:47d39fb3-009c-432f-82fc-14d9025a1292 at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Adman, Gabriel and Martinez aren't the only creationist LIARS
around.
Far from it. As PZ Myers points out
atwww.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula,
creationist lying is commonplace:
http://tinyurl.com/5a2gv6
Budikka
of course we NEVER get lies from the science side. RIGHT?
smirk
Just like Peacenik said. The difference between science and
creation
is that creation starts with a lie. Science starts with a
desire to
find out what's going on.
We're still waiting for you to own up to the rest of your lies.
Budikka
What would those lies be, Budikka?
Well let's start with your lie that there's no speciation, shall
we?
Budikka
ok, edcuate me. Exactly where did speciation originate?
In living things:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
Get back with me when a cat can breed with a rat and make a "crat" or
new
creature that is both cat and rat.
snip BS
I also wonder how you KNOW that the words of the bible are your gods
words, but the words of some one like Darwin's are not. Shouldn't the
truth borne out by examination and fact be the goal, not just who got to
put it down first?
Please explain, in detail, how you ferret out what is the true word of
your god and what isn't.
You are correct. The truth should come out. Truth is what mankind
struggles for internally.
Darwin's work (seed planted) has probably been sent by one of the son's of
God. A fallen son that has rebelled. A son that seeks to lie and kill and
destroy his Father's creation.
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| Steve O... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:28 pm |
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"adman" <grat at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote in message
news:Bkkok.8671$XT1.6585 at (no spam) bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Quote: You are correct. The truth should come out. Truth is what mankind
struggles for internally.
Darwin's work (seed planted) has probably been sent by one of the son's of
God. A fallen son that has rebelled. A son that seeks to lie and kill and
destroy his Father's creation.
Woo woo alert!
You appear to have forgotten to type the letter "M" at the beginning of your
name.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter)
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence |
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| DanielSan... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:38 pm |
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adman wrote:
Quote: "Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ucu8n5x382.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 12/08/08 12:04 AM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a47n5xofd.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 11/08/08 07:18 PM:
"Budikka666" <budikka1 at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:7363cdd1-8981-48ba-b972-ff456dfb6571 at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 10, 12:08 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3042902d-cbfc-4a7f-8c9f-e78409c8621d at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 8, 10:25 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:9042d03a-a54d-496c-be5e-c59cdfa8f0dd at (no spam) b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 6, 7:29 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:47d39fb3-009c-432f-82fc-14d9025a1292 at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Adman, Gabriel and Martinez aren't the only creationist LIARS
around.
Far from it. As PZ Myers points out
atwww.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula,
creationist lying is commonplace:
http://tinyurl.com/5a2gv6
Budikka
of course we NEVER get lies from the science side. RIGHT? <smirk
Just like Peacenik said. The difference between science and
creation
is that creation starts with a lie. Science starts with a desire
to
find out what's going on.
We're still waiting for you to own up to the rest of your lies.
Budikka
What would those lies be, Budikka?
Well let's start with your lie that there's no speciation, shall we?
Budikka
ok, edcuate me. Exactly where did speciation originate?
In living things:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
Get back with me when a cat can breed with a rat and make a "crat" or
new
creature that is both cat and rat.
snip BS
Ironic, because a cat breeding with a rat being evolution is pure
bullcrap. Do you have straw man fetish?
you have solid proof of species jumping?
"Species jumping"? Never hard that term before. Please elucidate what
you mean by it.
You have any proof that one life form evolved into another?
Yes.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He *
* can't eat it? *
**************************************************** |
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| adman... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:36 pm |
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Guest
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"James Beck" <jim at (no spam) reallykillersystems.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.230bb12529ddf45298a763 at (no spam) newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
Quote: In article <Bkkok.8671$XT1.6585 at (no spam) bignews5.bellsouth.net>, grat at (no spam) hotmail.et
says...
"James Beck" <jim at (no spam) reallykillersystems.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.230b6a5d335885d698a75f at (no spam) newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
In article <1J3ok.9263$De7.2771 at (no spam) bignews7.bellsouth.net>,
grat at (no spam) hotmail.et
says...
"Budikka666" <budikka1 at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:7363cdd1-8981-48ba-b972-ff456dfb6571 at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 10, 12:08 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3042902d-cbfc-4a7f-8c9f-e78409c8621d at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 8, 10:25 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:9042d03a-a54d-496c-be5e-c59cdfa8f0dd at (no spam) b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 6, 7:29 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:47d39fb3-009c-432f-82fc-14d9025a1292 at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Adman, Gabriel and Martinez aren't the only creationist
LIARS
around.
Far from it. As PZ Myers points out
atwww.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula,
creationist lying is commonplace:
http://tinyurl.com/5a2gv6
Budikka
of course we NEVER get lies from the science side. RIGHT?
smirk
Just like Peacenik said. The difference between science and
creation
is that creation starts with a lie. Science starts with a
desire
to
find out what's going on.
We're still waiting for you to own up to the rest of your
lies.
Budikka
What would those lies be, Budikka?
Well let's start with your lie that there's no speciation, shall
we?
Budikka
ok, edcuate me. Exactly where did speciation originate?
In living things:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
Get back with me when a cat can breed with a rat and make a "crat" or
new
creature that is both cat and rat.
snip BS
I also wonder how you KNOW that the words of the bible are your gods
words, but the words of some one like Darwin's are not. Shouldn't the
truth borne out by examination and fact be the goal, not just who got
to
put it down first?
Please explain, in detail, how you ferret out what is the true word of
your god and what isn't.
You are correct. The truth should come out. Truth is what mankind
struggles
for internally.
Darwin's work (seed planted) has probably been sent by one of the son's
of
God. A fallen son that has rebelled. A son that seeks to lie and kill and
destroy his Father's creation.
Has probably?
Once again, how do you KNOW?
Is anything in life 100% certain?
Quote: How do you KNOW that what is in the bible wasn't planted there by some
fallen son and Darwin was inspired by your god to set the record
straight?
Truth has a way of surviving. People; and by people I mean the human race in
general, tend to know bullshit when they see it and read it.
Oh, humans may accept lies for awhile, but eventually truth will come to the
surface.
Fact is,Truth survives; Truth Survives in much the same way biblical and
historical references have survived for thousands of years while scientific
theories are constantly being replaced. And in case you have not noticed,
much of Darwin's original work has been replaced by yet even more revisions
from science. |
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| DanielSan... |
| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:07 pm |
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Guest
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adman wrote:
Quote: "DanielSan" <danielsan at (no spam) speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:fLCdnWxvveYSpj_VnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d at (no spam) speakeasy.net...
adman wrote:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ucu8n5x382.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 12/08/08 12:04 AM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a47n5xofd.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 11/08/08 07:18 PM:
"Budikka666" <budikka1 at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:7363cdd1-8981-48ba-b972-ff456dfb6571 at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 10, 12:08 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3042902d-cbfc-4a7f-8c9f-e78409c8621d at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 8, 10:25 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:9042d03a-a54d-496c-be5e-c59cdfa8f0dd at (no spam) b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 6, 7:29 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:47d39fb3-009c-432f-82fc-14d9025a1292 at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Adman, Gabriel and Martinez aren't the only creationist LIARS
around.
Far from it. As PZ Myers points out
atwww.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula,
creationist lying is commonplace:
http://tinyurl.com/5a2gv6
Budikka
of course we NEVER get lies from the science side. RIGHT?
smirk
Just like Peacenik said. The difference between science and
creation
is that creation starts with a lie. Science starts with a
desire to
find out what's going on.
We're still waiting for you to own up to the rest of your lies.
Budikka
What would those lies be, Budikka?
Well let's start with your lie that there's no speciation, shall
we?
Budikka
ok, edcuate me. Exactly where did speciation originate?
In living things:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
Get back with me when a cat can breed with a rat and make a "crat" or
new
creature that is both cat and rat.
snip BS
Ironic, because a cat breeding with a rat being evolution is pure
bullcrap. Do you have straw man fetish?
you have solid proof of species jumping?
"Species jumping"? Never hard that term before. Please elucidate what
you mean by it.
You have any proof that one life form evolved into another?
Yes.
Does it line up with biblical references?
The Bible is not a scientific document.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He *
* can't eat it? *
**************************************************** |
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| adman... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:50 am |
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Guest
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"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e3cbn5xkpq.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
Quote: adman wrote, On 12/08/08 02:04 PM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ucu8n5x382.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 12/08/08 12:04 AM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a47n5xofd.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 11/08/08 07:18 PM:
Get back with me when a cat can breed with a rat and make a "crat" or
new
creature that is both cat and rat.
snip BS
Ironic, because a cat breeding with a rat being evolution is pure
bullcrap. Do you have straw man fetish?
you have solid proof of species jumping?
"Species jumping"? Never hard that term before. Please elucidate what
you mean by it.
You have any proof that one life form evolved into another?
Yes. I have posted observed events of speciation multiple times.
When you combine that with transitional fossils, homologies, vestigial
organs, (palaeo)biogeography, molecular genetics and so forth, there is
only 1 reasonable result.
This sounds more like a preponderance of evidence that would lead some folks
to believe one life form could evolve into another life form with out actual
proof.
If you can show me bones of Animal #1 turning into Animal #2 with the
intermediate bones # 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 and so on, in-between, that
shows how #1 became #2 then I will throw my bible away.
Kinda like software. Where are the other VERSIONS between V1.0 and V5.0. As
old as you claim the earth is, the evidence should be everywhere. If we can
find some rocks 4 billion years old there must be some bones lying around
that clearly shows one form evolving slowly into the next form with examples
of what was in-between the two versions. Right?.
AFAIK you cannot show a clear link between man and ape.
Lay the bones out. Let me see. |
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| adman... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:51 am |
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Guest
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"DanielSan" <danielsan at (no spam) speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:SpqdnTHy07YrGD7VnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d at (no spam) speakeasy.net...
Quote: adman wrote:
"DanielSan" <danielsan at (no spam) speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:fLCdnWxvveYSpj_VnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d at (no spam) speakeasy.net...
adman wrote:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ucu8n5x382.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 12/08/08 12:04 AM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbrecht at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a47n5xofd.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 11/08/08 07:18 PM:
"Budikka666" <budikka1 at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:7363cdd1-8981-48ba-b972-ff456dfb6571 at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 10, 12:08 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3042902d-cbfc-4a7f-8c9f-e78409c8621d at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 8, 10:25 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:9042d03a-a54d-496c-be5e-c59cdfa8f0dd at (no spam) b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 6, 7:29 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik... at (no spam) netscape.net> wrote in message
news:47d39fb3-009c-432f-82fc-14d9025a1292 at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Adman, Gabriel and Martinez aren't the only creationist
LIARS
around.
Far from it. As PZ Myers points out
atwww.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula,
creationist lying is commonplace:
http://tinyurl.com/5a2gv6
Budikka
of course we NEVER get lies from the science side. RIGHT?
smirk
Just like Peacenik said. The difference between science and
creation
is that creation starts with a lie. Science starts with a
desire to
find out what's going on.
We're still waiting for you to own up to the rest of your
lies.
Budikka
What would those lies be, Budikka?
Well let's start with your lie that there's no speciation, shall
we?
Budikka
ok, edcuate me. Exactly where did speciation originate?
In living things:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
Get back with me when a cat can breed with a rat and make a "crat"
or new
creature that is both cat and rat.
snip BS
Ironic, because a cat breeding with a rat being evolution is pure
bullcrap. Do you have straw man fetish?
you have solid proof of species jumping?
"Species jumping"? Never hard that term before. Please elucidate what
you mean by it.
You have any proof that one life form evolved into another?
Yes.
Does it line up with biblical references?
The Bible is not a scientific document.
It is not supose to be
Quote:
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He *
* can't eat it? *
**************************************************** |
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| Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:55 pm |
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Guest
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On Aug 15, 3:24 am, "Peacenik" <cnelsonpub... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote in message
news:T4Fok.9927$Ep1.743 at (no spam) bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"DanielSan" <daniel... at (no spam) speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:fLCdnWxvveYSpj_VnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d at (no spam) speakeasy.net...
adman wrote:
You have any proof that one life form evolved into another?
Yes.
Does it line up with biblical references?
Nope, at least not on the literal level. But then again, what the buybull
says is utterly irrelevant to reality.
What the buybull says is usually at odds with what it's adherents
claim it says as well. So there's literal buybull, Xtian nutter or
reality to pick from. Hmmm... Tough one that.
Al |
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| Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:07 pm |
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Guest
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On Aug 14, 3:50 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
Quote: "Cory Albrecht" <coryalbre... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e3cbn5xkpq.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 12/08/08 02:04 PM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbre... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ucu8n5x382.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 12/08/08 12:04 AM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbre... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a47n5xofd.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 11/08/08 07:18 PM:
Get back with me when a cat can breed with a rat and make a "crat" or
new
creature that is both cat and rat.
snip BS
Ironic, because a cat breeding with a rat being evolution is pure
bullcrap. Do you have straw man fetish?
you have solid proof of species jumping?
"Species jumping"? Never hard that term before. Please elucidate what
you mean by it.
You have any proof that one life form evolved into another?
Yes. I have posted observed events of speciation multiple times.
When you combine that with transitional fossils, homologies, vestigial
organs, (palaeo)biogeography, molecular genetics and so forth, there is
only 1 reasonable result.
This sounds more like a preponderance of evidence that would lead some folks
to believe one life form could evolve into another life form with out actual
proof.
If you can show me bones of Animal #1 turning into Animal #2 with the
intermediate bones # 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 and so on, in-between, that
shows how #1 became #2 then I will throw my bible away.
Kinda like software. Where are the other VERSIONS between V1.0 and V5.0. As
old as you claim the earth is, the evidence should be everywhere. If we can
find some rocks 4 billion years old there must be some bones lying around
that clearly shows one form evolving slowly into the next form with examples
of what was in-between the two versions. Right?.
AFAIK you cannot show a clear link between man and ape.
Lay the bones out. Let me see.
Oh dear. You've come out and stated what you need to see. Now, who
wants to bet on goal-posts that shift so fucking quick they're a blur?
So, ready to argue about (or even look at) http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html
yet?
Al |
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| Steve O... |
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:48 pm |
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Guest
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"Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwhipp at (no spam) optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:0295d328-f9e2-4dc7-bef2-7355ae997c32 at (no spam) v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Quote: On Aug 14, 3:50 pm, "adman" <g... at (no spam) hotmail.et> wrote:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbre... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e3cbn5xkpq.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 12/08/08 02:04 PM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbre... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ucu8n5x382.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 12/08/08 12:04 AM:
"Cory Albrecht" <coryalbre... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a47n5xofd.ln2 at (no spam) xanadu.fenris.cjb.net...
adman wrote, On 11/08/08 07:18 PM:
Get back with me when a cat can breed with a rat and make a "crat"
or
new
creature that is both cat and rat.
snip BS
Ironic, because a cat breeding with a rat being evolution is pure
bullcrap. Do you have straw man fetish?
you have solid proof of species jumping?
"Species jumping"? Never hard that term before. Please elucidate what
you mean by it.
You have any proof that one life form evolved into another?
Yes. I have posted observed events of speciation multiple times.
When you combine that with transitional fossils, homologies, vestigial
organs, (palaeo)biogeography, molecular genetics and so forth, there is
only 1 reasonable result.
This sounds more like a preponderance of evidence that would lead some
folks
to believe one life form could evolve into another life form with out
actual
proof.
If you can show me bones of Animal #1 turning into Animal #2 with the
intermediate bones # 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 and so on, in-between, that
shows how #1 became #2 then I will throw my bible away.
Kinda like software. Where are the other VERSIONS between V1.0 and V5.0.
As
old as you claim the earth is, the evidence should be everywhere. If we
can
find some rocks 4 billion years old there must be some bones lying around
that clearly shows one form evolving slowly into the next form with
examples
of what was in-between the two versions. Right?.
AFAIK you cannot show a clear link between man and ape.
Lay the bones out. Let me see.
Oh dear. You've come out and stated what you need to see. Now, who
wants to bet on goal-posts that shift so fucking quick they're a blur?
So, ready to argue about (or even look at)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html
yet?
Al
I don't think that will do for him.
I think he was expecting to see the change from generation to generation.
Which only goes to show how little he understands about evolution.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter)
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence |
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