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Religion Forum Index » Christian Methodist Forum » Regarding the church trial of the pastor
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| Mark Moore |
 Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:59 pm |
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I read about this in the newspaper today. While I'm not Methodist, I'd
like to add a little bit of my own view to this debate.
The Bible does not condemn female homosexuality. If you look at the
laws about forbidden sex practices in Leviticus, you'll see what I
mean.
My Bible (The Good News Bible in Today's English Version published by
the American Bible Society) translates Leviticus 18:22 like this: "It
is forbidden for a man to have sexual relations with another man; God
hates that."
Look at the law right after that - Leviticus 18:23: "It is forbidden
for a man or a woman to have sexual relations with an animal."
The laws in that chapter are each individually targeted at a specific
sex, male, female, or both.
There is no law in that chapter (or even in the entire Old Testament)
that forbids a woman from having sexual relations with another woman.
Here are some other translations of Leviticus 18:22 that I've found by
doing a quick Internet search:
New Internation Version:
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
New American Standard:
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an
abomination.
The Message:
Don't have sex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.
Amplified:
You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
New Living Translation:
Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
King James Version:
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
New Life Version:
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing.
English Standard Version:
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Contemporary English Version:
It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man.
New King James Version:
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
21st Century King James Version:
Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
American Standard Version:
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Young's Literal Translation:
And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman;
abomination it is.
Darby Translation:
And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is
an abomination.
New International Reader's Version:
Do not have sex with a man as you would have sex with a woman. I hate
that.
New International Version - UK:
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Aside from the New Living Translation being an obvious paraphrase made
by that particular translator, you can see that this law pertains only
to males.
I took an Old Testament course in college. The teacher wrote the
passage in Hebrew on the board and then gave me a translation of each
character. His translation was "It is forbidden for a [grown] man to
lie with a male [of any woman] as with [that part was vague, he said]
a [grown] woman."
Some other translations that are possible:
It is forbidden for a man to lie with a woman at the same time as with
a man.
It is forbidden for a man to lie with a woman in the same way as he
has with a man.
It is forbidden for a man to lie with a woman in the place place as he
had with a man.
So, that passage may not even be forbidding homosexuality at all.
As for the story of Sodom, my Bible mentions "horrible accusations".
Other translations saying that their sin was "so grievous", "exceeding
grave", "immense", "exceedingly grievous", "extremely evil", "very
grievous", "very bad", "very grave", "all kinds of evil things", "so
bad", etc. There's no mention of homosexuality being one of Sodom's
"sins".
As for Lot telling the men of Sodom to not do "such a wicked thing" to
the men that God had sent, he could have just as easily been referring
to rape.
As for the New Testament, Jesus never addressed homosexualty. You
would think that, if it was such a grave sin, he would have said
something.
I consider Paul to be a false teacher, so don't go there.
Anyway, the only conclusion that I can come to is that the Church is
wrong for putting this pastor on trial. It has no Biblical basis.
Mark |
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| Eric Fisher |
| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:41 pm |
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re:
I consider Paul to be a false teacher, so don't go there.
Anyway, the only conclusion that I can come to is that the Church is
wrong for putting this pastor on trial. It has no Biblical basis.
Mark
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the church, and those who agree it is the right church for them,
consider paul to be one of the major heroes of the faith... if not #1,
after christ, of course.... so in matters relating to the church and
it's decisions affecting it's followers, paul's teachings are to be
expected to be considered at least as valid as any other bible writer's. |
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| Eric Fisher |
| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:41 pm |
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re:
I consider Paul to be a false teacher, so don't go there.
Anyway, the only conclusion that I can come to is that the Church is
wrong for putting this pastor on trial. It has no Biblical basis.
Mark
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the church, and those who agree it is the right church for them,
consider paul to be one of the major heroes of the faith... if not #1,
after christ, of course.... so in matters relating to the church and
it's decisions affecting it's followers, paul's teachings are to be
expected to be considered at least as valid as any other bible writer's. |
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| Mark Moore |
| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:29 am |
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ericfisher2@webtv.net (Eric Fisher) wrote in message news:<27277-405B9344-1018@storefull-3296.bay.webtv.net>...
Quote: re:
I consider Paul to be a false teacher, so don't go there.
Anyway, the only conclusion that I can come to is that the Church is
wrong for putting this pastor on trial. It has no Biblical basis.
Mark
--------------------------
the church, and those who agree it is the right church for them,
consider paul to be one of the major heroes of the faith... if not #1,
after christ, of course.... so in matters relating to the church and
it's decisions affecting it's followers, paul's teachings are to be
expected to be considered at least as valid as any other bible writer's.
Okay, so, if Paul is considered after Jesus, and Jesus never condemned
homosexuality, then what right does Paul have to do it?
Mark |
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| Raymond |
| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:49 am |
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"Mark Moore" <sailormoon@naturecoast.net> wrote in message
news:48d3c1d3.0403200729.7ab35dd8@posting.google.com...
Quote: ericfisher2@webtv.net (Eric Fisher) wrote in message
news:<27277-405B9344-1018@storefull-3296.bay.webtv.net>...
re:
I consider Paul to be a false teacher, so don't go there.
Anyway, the only conclusion that I can come to is that the Church is
wrong for putting this pastor on trial. It has no Biblical basis.
Mark
--------------------------
the church, and those who agree it is the right church for them,
consider paul to be one of the major heroes of the faith... if not #1,
after christ, of course.... so in matters relating to the church and
it's decisions affecting it's followers, paul's teachings are to be
expected to be considered at least as valid as any other bible writer's.
Okay, so, if Paul is considered after Jesus, and Jesus never condemned
homosexuality, then what right does Paul have to do it?
Jesus never condoned homosexuality either, so that is why Paul gets into it,
he did preach against it.
Then I think it is silly to argue with a guy that says he will select whom
he will accept and whom he will not, as if God was giving him permission to
do so. Jesus selected Paul and did so one on one, stopped Paul in this
steps, knock him down and converted him when he was Saul. So I suppose we
just reject that writer, as he calls Paul false, he have to call Jesus false
also, and so to get around their sin, call the bible false. Then Hell will
still be there waiting no matter what they say or what they say the do not
believe.
Raymond
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