On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:49:51 -0800 (PST), Jon° <raystap at (no spam) yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

PS Please note, I am off for a Caribbean

desperate for some solace again then

On 2 Nov, 20:55, "True Blue" <garybagg... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:



"abelard" <abela... at (no spam) abelard.org> wrote in message

news:2vfue5pugnfurhecnfk52p0lb02gjnfm72 at (no spam) 4ax.com...

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:46:08 -0000, "True Blue" <garybagg... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:

"Saracene" <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d3a86107-fd4f-4c0d-a1c1-a35f34acde6d at (no spam) k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

Below is a link that will lead you into an article written by
Melanie
Phillips, who is one of the best philosophical commentators we have
today.

That foul, hideous, splenetic, Jewish hag, who once admitted she
would
be happily betray this country for one dearer to her.

Do you have a link to that?

Interested.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1224578/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-Fa...

she's throwing sand, but her disorganised rant
does stumble over some half-understood difficulties
that a person like her is bound to have with statistics

OK, that doesn't provide any evidence of her willingness to "happily
betray
this country for one dearer to her", but thanks for the link. Does
anyone
have any *tangible* refutation to what she says?

I haven't managed to find a link yet. It was years ago and she was
talking about who she would support in the hypothetical event of a
war between Britain and Israel. She said unequivocally that she would
support Israel. She did not say she would remain neutral.

abelard wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:49:51 -0800 (PST), Jon° <raystap at (no spam) yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

PS Please note, I am off for a Caribbean

desperate for some solace again then

Desperate to visit all those black people...

"William Black" <william.black at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hcnk2v$d5v$4 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
abelard wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:49:51 -0800 (PST), Jon° <raystap at (no spam) yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

PS Please note, I am off for a Caribbean

desperate for some solace again then

Desperate to visit all those black people...


When Billy Butlin opened his (short-lived) Butlins in the Caribbean, he
insisted on all the 'groid waiters wearing gloves so the black didn't
come off on the plates. Great businessman he might have been (*that*
venture notwithstanding) , but scientist, he wasn't.

True Blue wrote:

"William Black" <william.black at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hcnk2v$d5v$4 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
abelard wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:49:51 -0800 (PST), Jon° <raystap at (no spam) yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

PS Please note, I am off for a Caribbean

desperate for some solace again then

Desperate to visit all those black people...


When Billy Butlin opened his (short-lived) Butlins in the Caribbean, he
insisted on all the 'groid waiters wearing gloves so the black didn't
come off on the plates. Great businessman he might have been (*that*
venture notwithstanding) , but scientist, he wasn't.


Is that true?? - the bit about the gloves, I mean?

I think I'd pay money to see Sir Bill trying to implement that policy
today The volcanic eruption of outrage and fury would be quite
something to behold.

Bit of a cheek, anyway - white visitors to black countries are guests, and
should behave accordingly.

As should black visitors to this country.... ("to dream the impossible
dream...")

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard.

On 2 Nov, 23:55, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard.

'antisemitic canard', ie familiar criticism that has never been
refuted.

On 2 Nov, 23:55, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard. Hence
the response:

"I could scarcely believe what I had heard.
Self was seeking to make the wider world
aware of two things: first, that I was a Jew,
and second, that therefore my views on
Israel could be disregarded since Jews had
double loyalties."

Fatfat would be proud of him!

That attack came from a "Queston Time" in
December 2001.

Melanie goes on to say:

"When I said, however, that Israel was a democracy the audience did a
horrible and astonishing thing. They laughed.

That incredulous laugh was more shocking even than Self’s attack. It
revealed that however many Israeli teenagers are blown to smithereens
by suicide bombers, the British have seen on TV Israel’s tanks
demolishing Palestinian houses and above all seen those Palestinian
children being killed by Israeli soldiers, and they have formed the
view that Israel is a tyranny and the Jews are the real terrorists."

And later:

"I believe that the visceral hostility towards Israel and Jews
displayed by both the panel and the audience are representative now of
much mainstream British opinion."

And:

"Israel has never troubled to make its case effectively to the world
which it assumes will always be hostile or indifferent. It never
foresaw that Palestinian terror, whose purpose was to provoke a
counter-reaction that would not only turn the world against Israel but
destroy its very soul, would be financed by a western world which
would be suckers for the propaganda of the victim culture."

See what you dhimmis have helped bring about?

On 3 Nov, 00:05, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:





On 2 Nov, 23:55, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard. Hence
the response:

"I could scarcely believe what I had heard.
Self was seeking to make the wider world
aware of two things: first, that I was a Jew,
and second, that therefore my views on
Israel could be disregarded since Jews had
double loyalties."

Fatfat would be proud of him!

That attack came from a "Queston Time" in
December 2001.

Melanie goes on to say:

"When I said, however, that Israel was a democracy the audience did a
horrible and astonishing thing. They laughed.

That incredulous laugh was more shocking even than Self’s attack. It
revealed that however many Israeli teenagers are blown to smithereens
by suicide bombers, the British have seen on TV Israel’s tanks
demolishing Palestinian houses and above all seen those Palestinian
children being killed by Israeli soldiers, and they have formed the
view that Israel is a tyranny and the Jews are the real terrorists."

And later:

"I believe that the visceral hostility towards Israel and Jews
displayed by both the panel and the audience are representative now of
much mainstream British opinion."

And:

"Israel has never troubled to make its case effectively to the world
which it assumes will always be hostile or indifferent. It never
foresaw that Palestinian terror, whose purpose was to provoke a
counter-reaction that would not only turn the world against Israel but
destroy its very soul, would be financed by a western world which
would be suckers for the propaganda of the victim culture."

See what you dhimmis have helped bring about?

As for me I don't mind having brought that about if I have helped in
my little way to do so.
I thought that the western worlds suckerhood for victim culture

On 3 Nov, 09:09, Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 2 Nov, 23:55, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard.

'antisemitic canard', ie familiar criticism that has never been
refuted.

Yes, denying the meaning of words is
part of the hate syndrome.  Why do
you hate Jews?

On 3 Nov, 09:17, Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:



On 3 Nov, 00:05, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 2 Nov, 23:55, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard. Hence
the response:

"I could scarcely believe what I had heard.
Self was seeking to make the wider world
aware of two things: first, that I was a Jew,
and second, that therefore my views on
Israel could be disregarded since Jews had
double loyalties."

Fatfat would be proud of him!

That attack came from a "Queston Time" in
December 2001.

Melanie goes on to say:

"When I said, however, that Israel was a democracy the audience did a
horrible and astonishing thing. They laughed.

That incredulous laugh was more shocking even than Self’s attack. It
revealed that however many Israeli teenagers are blown to smithereens
by suicide bombers, the British have seen on TV Israel’s tanks
demolishing Palestinian houses and above all seen those Palestinian
children being killed by Israeli soldiers, and they have formed the
view that Israel is a tyranny and the Jews are the real terrorists."

And later:

"I believe that the visceral hostility towards Israel and Jews
displayed by both the panel and the audience are representative now of
much mainstream British opinion."

And:

"Israel has never troubled to make its case effectively to the world
which it assumes will always be hostile or indifferent. It never
foresaw that Palestinian terror, whose purpose was to provoke a
counter-reaction that would not only turn the world against Israel but
destroy its very soul, would be financed by a western world which
would be suckers for the propaganda of the victim culture."

See what you dhimmis have helped bring about?

As for me I don't mind having brought that about if I have helped in
my little way to do so.
I thought that the western worlds suckerhood for victim culture

You don't think.  You swallow toxic antisemitic
propaganda whole then regurgitate.

"Palestinian terror... financed by a western world which
would be suckers for the propaganda of the victim culture."

Why do you hate Jews and love their murderers?
.
That is not the case. I am not even as anti-Israeli as you think I am.

On 3 Nov, 09:22, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:





On 3 Nov, 09:17, Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 3 Nov, 00:05, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 2 Nov, 23:55, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard. Hence
the response:

"I could scarcely believe what I had heard.
Self was seeking to make the wider world
aware of two things: first, that I was a Jew,
and second, that therefore my views on
Israel could be disregarded since Jews had
double loyalties."

Fatfat would be proud of him!

That attack came from a "Queston Time" in
December 2001.

Melanie goes on to say:

"When I said, however, that Israel was a democracy the audience did a
horrible and astonishing thing. They laughed.

That incredulous laugh was more shocking even than Self’s attack. It
revealed that however many Israeli teenagers are blown to smithereens
by suicide bombers, the British have seen on TV Israel’s tanks
demolishing Palestinian houses and above all seen those Palestinian
children being killed by Israeli soldiers, and they have formed the
view that Israel is a tyranny and the Jews are the real terrorists."

And later:

"I believe that the visceral hostility towards Israel and Jews
displayed by both the panel and the audience are representative now of
much mainstream British opinion."

And:

"Israel has never troubled to make its case effectively to the world
which it assumes will always be hostile or indifferent. It never
foresaw that Palestinian terror, whose purpose was to provoke a
counter-reaction that would not only turn the world against Israel but
destroy its very soul, would be financed by a western world which
would be suckers for the propaganda of the victim culture."

See what you dhimmis have helped bring about?

As for me I don't mind having brought that about if I have helped in
my little way to do so.
I thought that the western worlds suckerhood for victim culture

You don't think.  You swallow toxic antisemitic
propaganda whole then regurgitate.

That is a lie. Actually I think very hard.

You produce one antisemitic canard to

"Palestinian terror... financed by a western world which
would be suckers for the propaganda of the victim culture."

Why do you hate Jews and love their murderers?
.

That is not the case. I am not even as anti-Israeli as you think I am.

Perhaps I should confess to hating Melanie. That is for her views on
drugs as much as other things.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 3 Nov, 09:11, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:





On 3 Nov, 09:09, Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 2 Nov, 23:55, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard.

'antisemitic canard', ie familiar criticism that has never been
refuted.

Yes, denying the meaning of words is
part of the hate syndrome.  Why do
you hate Jews?

I don't really. I do have a certain antipathy of dishonest arguments.
Nor do I like to submit to moral blackmail.
Self had been reading her articles and found her pro-Israeli
sympathies so strong that he felt moved to ask the question he did. .
It is an entirely natural question.

The dishonesty

attributing any criticism to a rationalisation of irrational hatred.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 3 Nov, 09:34, Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 3 Nov, 09:22, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 3 Nov, 09:17, Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 3 Nov, 00:05, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On 2 Nov, 23:55, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Saracene <john.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Also Self, himself of Jewish stock, was not saying that all Jews had
double loyalties, he was ascertaining whether or not she did.

He was using an antisemitic canard. Hence
the response:

"I could scarcely believe what I had heard.
Self was seeking to make the wider world
aware of two things: first, that I was a Jew,
and second, that therefore my views on
Israel could be disregarded since Jews had
double loyalties."

Fatfat would be proud of him!

That attack came from a "Queston Time" in
December 2001.

Melanie goes on to say:

"When I said, however, that Israel was a democracy the audience did a
horrible and astonishing thing. They laughed.

That incredulous laugh was more shocking even than Self’s attack. It
revealed that however many Israeli teenagers are blown to smithereens
by suicide bombers, the British have seen on TV Israel’s tanks
demolishing Palestinian houses and above all seen those Palestinian
children being killed by Israeli soldiers, and they have formed the
view that Israel is a tyranny and the Jews are the real terrorists."

And later:

"I believe that the visceral hostility towards Israel and Jews
displayed by both the panel and the audience are representative now of
much mainstream British opinion."

And:

"Israel has never troubled to make its case effectively to the world
which it assumes will always be hostile or indifferent. It never
foresaw that Palestinian terror, whose purpose was to provoke a
counter-reaction that would not only turn the world against Israel but
destroy its very soul, would be financed by a western world which
would be suckers for the propaganda of the victim culture."

See what you dhimmis have helped bring about?

As for me I don't mind having brought that about if I have helped in
my little way to do so.
I thought that the western worlds suckerhood for victim culture

You don't think.  You swallow toxic antisemitic
propaganda whole then regurgitate.

That is a lie. Actually I think very hard.

You produce one antisemitic canard to
"prove" another.  That's not thinking and
it provides more evidence of your Jew-
hatred. Why do you hate Jews?

Ok, let us say I am convinced by some of these canards as you call

On 3 Nov, 09:38, Ariadne <ariadne.... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
I thought that the western worlds suckerhood for victim culture

You don't think.  You swallow toxic antisemitic
propaganda whole then regurgitate.

That is a lie. Actually I think very hard.

You produce one antisemitic canard to
"prove" another.  That's not thinking and
it provides more evidence of your Jew-
hatred. Why do you hate Jews?

Ok, let us say I am convinced by some of these canards as you call
them which strike me as sound judgments.

I am very far from hating all Jews.

Some things Jewish repel me I admit.

I would say the whole basis of your net presence is dishonest
argument.