Socialism is the ownership or control of the means of
production by the workers, or by the people generally.

Michael Price wrote:
On Oct 21, 12:51 pm, "*Anarcissie*" <anarcis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:29 am, Michael Price <nini_... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

snip



Socialism's been supported by much more than a half-dozen Republican
Senators for a while now.  In fact massive payouts to the poor have
been
Republican policy for quite a while, although they prefer to do it
with a bit
more stealth than the Democrats.

Payouts to the poor are not socialism.

  Well what would you call socialism?  Government running much of the
economy?
Republicans, check.   Government owning lots of productive assets?
Again
Republicans, check.  The Republicans are more socialist than
progressives of
early last century could have dreamed they'd get away with.

        Republicans are fascists which is extreme right wing.  Socialism is on the
left.  Right wingers are for the rich and the corporations they own.

 The left is for the people and the working class.

Yet the left has ruined enslaved the people and the working class.

--
Regards,
Fred
(remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email)

On Oct 15, 9:26 am, Ha-Emet <e... at (no spam) sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:

                                            Atoms are Forever

Wow, a total rant.

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "*Anarcissie*"
anarcissie at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Socialism is the ownership or control of the means of
production by the workers, or by the people generally.

But "the workers" cannot control anything, nor can "the
people generally"

Only particular people can control particular things.

This is totally unfounded. George Bush II was president and he was a

Thus in practice, socialism is necessarily the control
of everything by the government, a group of people small
enough to meet around a table, led by a single man,
which predictably leads to the all too well known
consequences.

On Oct 24, 10:30 pm, Fred Williams <f... at (no spam) frewilliams.FFFfca> wrote:
Michael Price wrote:
On Oct 21, 12:51 pm, "*Anarcissie*" <anarcis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:29 am, Michael Price <nini_... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

snip



Socialism's been supported by much more than a half-dozen Republican
Senators for a while now. In fact massive payouts to the poor have
been
Republican policy for quite a while, although they prefer to do it
with a bit
more stealth than the Democrats.

Payouts to the poor are not socialism.

Well what would you call socialism? Government running much of the
economy?
Republicans, check. Government owning lots of productive assets?
Again
Republicans, check. The Republicans are more socialist than
progressives of
early last century could have dreamed they'd get away with.

Republicans are fascists which is extreme right wing. Socialism is on
the left. Right wingers are for the rich and the corporations they own.

But fascists ruined and enslaved the rich and the corporations they
owed.

Any scarce money economy will destroy itself even one with fairly well

The left is for the people and the working class.

Yet the left has ruined enslaved the people and the working class.

Your simplistic bullshit has been exposed before, the "left" and
the
"right" are the same.

On Oct 15, 10:19=A0am, "*Anarcissie*" <anarcis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 15, 9:26=A0am, Ha-Emet <e... at (no spam) sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Atoms are Forever

Wow, a total rant.

And a physics-denier. Atoms are _not_ forever.

James A.  Donald wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "*Anarcissie*"
anarcis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Socialism is the ownership or control of the means of
production by the workers, or by the people generally.

But "the workers" cannot control anything, nor can "the
people generally"

Only particular people can control particular things.

        This is totally unfounded.  George Bush II was president and he was a
moron.  So anybody can control just about anything.

        They used to say we could not have democracy because people were too stupid
to govern themselves.  They were proved wrong.  

Really? When? Democracy doesn't work because it depends on

Thus in practice, socialism is necessarily the control
of everything by the government, a group of people small
enough to meet around a table, led by a single man,
which predictably leads to the all too well known
consequences.

        Again totally inventing lies.  People can run things themselves and govern
themselves.  It takes a little education and freedom from economic
competitivism, but they can do it.

--
Regards,
Fred
(remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email)

Michael Price wrote:
On Oct 24, 10:30 pm, Fred Williams <f... at (no spam) frewilliams.FFFfca> wrote:
Michael Price wrote:
On Oct 21, 12:51 pm, "*Anarcissie*" <anarcis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:29 am, Michael Price <nini_... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

snip

Socialism's been supported by much more than a half-dozen Republican
Senators for a while now.  In fact massive payouts to the poor have
been
Republican policy for quite a while, although they prefer to do it
with a bit
more stealth than the Democrats.

Payouts to the poor are not socialism.

Well what would you call socialism?  Government running much of the
economy?
Republicans, check.   Government owning lots of productive assets?
Again
Republicans, check.  The Republicans are more socialist than
progressives of
early last century could have dreamed they'd get away with.

Republicans are fascists which is extreme right wing.  Socialism is on
the left.  Right wingers are for the rich and the corporations they own.

  But fascists ruined and enslaved the rich and the corporations they
owed.

        Any scarce money economy will destroy itself even one with fairly well
intentioned politicians.  So certainly fascist psychopaths will destroy it.

The left is for the people and the working class.

  Yet the left has ruined enslaved the people and the working class.

        Then they weren't very left.

  Your simplistic bullshit has been exposed before, the "left" and
the "right" are the same.

        The right wants to hide their intentions and they do so by trying o get
people to think they're left, or that there is no difference.

 But a lie is a lie.  If there were now a difference, the terms wouldn't have been used
for so many years,

I assume you mean "If there were not a difference...". The terms

--
Regards,
Fred
(remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email)

Michael Price wrote:

  The "right" under GWB and Reagan did more for leftist goals of
controlling
the economy by government and expanding welfare than anyone I can
think
of.  If they're hiding their intentions then when does the hiding end
and the
actual doing what they want to do start?

        The people do not control the government.

 The wealthy elite control the government and that's fascism.

 If the people control what's going on then it's left wing.

So then there hasn't been a left-wing government in history? How

--
Regards,
Fred
(remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email)

Michael Price wrote:
On Oct 25, 11:55 pm, Fred Williams <f... at (no spam) frewilliams.FFFfca> wrote:
James A.  Donald wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "*Anarcissie*"
anarcis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Socialism is the ownership or control of the means of
production by the workers, or by the people generally.

But "the workers" cannot control anything, nor can "the
people generally"

Only particular people can control particular things.

This is totally unfounded.  George Bush II was president and he was a
moron.  So anybody can control just about anything.

  You miss the point, George W. Bush was a particular person who
controlled particular things, not a group that controlled all things.  Things
can only be controlled by particular people, that is not "the people" but individuals.

        That's crap, of course.

The only way people wlll ever have freedom is if they collectively control things.

How is having everything controlled by someone else, which is what

They used to say we could not have democracy because people were too
stupid to govern themselves.  They were proved wrong.

  Really?  When?  Democracy doesn't work because it depends on
coercion to put power in the hands of those who aren't responsible for the results of
power.  This is true even, hell especially, if the "will of the people" is actually carried
out.

        This doesn't even make sense enough to criticize.  What are you trying to
say?

I said that democracy is a form of coercion, i.e. force. To put it

Thus in practice, socialism is necessarily the control
of everything by the government, a group of people small
enough to meet around a table, led by a single man,
which predictably leads to the all too well known
consequences.

Again totally inventing lies.  People can run things themselves and
govern themselves.  It takes a little education and freedom from economic
competitivism, but they can do it.

BTW how do you suppose "freedom from economic competitivism" can be

--
Regards,
Fred
(remove FFFf from my email address to reply by email)

On Oct 25, 11:55 pm, Fred Williams <f... at (no spam) frewilliams.FFFfca> wrote:
James A. Donald wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "*Anarcissie*"
anarcis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Socialism is the ownership or control of the means of
production by the workers, or by the people generally.

But "the workers" cannot control anything, nor can "the
people generally"

Only particular people can control particular things.

This is totally unfounded. George Bush II was president and he was a
moron. So anybody can control just about anything.

You miss the point, George W. Bush was a particular person who
controlled particular
things, not a group that controlled all things. Things can only be
controlled by particular
people, that is not "the people" but individuals.

That's crap, of course. The only way people wlll ever have freedom is if

They used to say we could not have democracy because people were too
stupid to govern themselves. They were proved wrong.

Really? When? Democracy doesn't work because it depends on
coercion to put power
in the hands of those who aren't responsible for the results of
power. This is true even,
hell especially, if the "will of the people" is actually carried
out.

This doesn't even make sense enough to criticize. What are you trying to

Thus in practice, socialism is necessarily the control
of everything by the government, a group of people small
enough to meet around a table, led by a single man,
which predictably leads to the all too well known
consequences.

Again totally inventing lies. People can run things themselves and
govern themselves. It takes a little education and freedom from economic
competitivism, but they can do it.

The "right" under GWB and Reagan did more for leftist goals of
controlling
the economy by government and expanding welfare than anyone I can
think
of. If they're hiding their intentions then when does the hiding end
and the
actual doing what they want to do start?

The people do not control the government. The wealthy elite control the

The only way people wlll ever have freedom is if
they collectively control things.

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:14:54 -0700 (PDT), "*Anarcissie*"

anarcis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Socialism is the ownership or control of the means of
production by the workers, or by the people generally.

But "the workers" cannot control anything, nor can "the
people generally"

Only particular people can control particular things.

Thus in practice, socialism is necessarily the control
of everything by the government, a group of people small
enough to meet around a table, led by a single man,
which predictably leads to the all too well known
consequences.

*Anarcissie*"

Socialism is the ownership or control of the means of
production by the workers, or by the people generally.

James A. Donald:

But "the workers" cannot control anything, nor can "the
people generally"

Only particular people can control particular things.

Thus in practice, socialism is necessarily the control
of everything by the government, a group of people small
enough to meet around a table, led by a single man,
which predictably leads to the all too well known
consequences.

*Anarcissie*"

The corporation?

If one corporation owned everything, and had the power to shoot its
employees rather than fire them.