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| Politics Forum Index » USA (Misc) Politics Forum » Wind Farms: Do they kill birds?... |
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| Ron House... |
 Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:27 pm |
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Guest
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A short while ago I read a shocking and disturbing article about bird
deaths from wind farms on climaterealists.com. I immediately asked
myself: "Is that really true?" I wanted to know the right answer to this
question, whether or not I liked it. If we want to create a peace legacy
for future generations, to safeguard the planet for both humans and our
non-human friends, we need to know the truth.
The issue is this: the story above claims that millions of birds are
killed by wind farms. But a "green" friend I mentioned this to told me
that this is absurd: she had studied wind farms in depth, she had
personally visited them, and they were the safest, most
wildlife-friendly places imaginable; the blades rotate so sedately
nothing could possibly be killed by them; and there wasn't a dead or
injured bird to be found anywhere around about. She went so far as to
wonder if the writers of the above article weren't simply lying through
their teeth.
The paradox I was struggling with was this: my green friend is without
doubt one of the most truthful people I know. I did not doubt her
account for a second. Equally, it seemed impossible that anyone could
write such a credible-sounding article as the one linked above. Two
truthful sources in direct contradiction - I needed facts that no one
could dispute, because if lies are involved (and who won't at least
wonder about the possibility?), it isn't good enough to merely discover
the truth; I also needed it in a form that would allow anyone to prove
it for themselves.So here's what I did. Read more:
http://peacelegacy.org/articles/wind-farms-do-they-kill-birds
--
Ron House
Building Peace: http://peacelegacy.org
Australian Birds: http://wingedhearts.org
Principle of Goodness academic site: http://principleofgoodness.net |
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| TinFoilTophat... |
| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:27 pm |
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On Sep 8, 2:27 pm, Ron House <rho... at (no spam) smartchat.net.au> wrote:
Quote: A short while ago I read a shocking and disturbing article about bird
deaths from wind farms on climaterealists.com. I immediately asked
myself: "Is that really true?" I wanted to know the right answer to this
question, whether or not I liked it. If we want to create a peace legacy
for future generations, to safeguard the planet for both humans and our
non-human friends, we need to know the truth.
Concern Troll.
Fascinating - your article claims windfarms are too quiet for the
birds to avoid them. Kind of the opposite claim the rest of the anti-
renewable lobby uses.
It's all academic anyway - wherever people build things, birds fly
into them and die. Buildings, roads, wind towers. |
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| Larry Hewitt... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:40 am |
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Ron House wrote:
Quote: A short while ago I read a shocking and disturbing article about bird
deaths from wind farms on climaterealists.com. I immediately asked
myself: "Is that really true?" I wanted to know the right answer to this
question, whether or not I liked it. If we want to create a peace legacy
for future generations, to safeguard the planet for both humans and our
non-human friends, we need to know the truth.
The issue is this: the story above claims that millions of birds are
killed by wind farms. But a "green" friend I mentioned this to told me
that this is absurd: she had studied wind farms in depth, she had
personally visited them, and they were the safest, most
wildlife-friendly places imaginable; the blades rotate so sedately
nothing could possibly be killed by them; and there wasn't a dead or
injured bird to be found anywhere around about. She went so far as to
wonder if the writers of the above article weren't simply lying through
their teeth.
The paradox I was struggling with was this: my green friend is without
doubt one of the most truthful people I know. I did not doubt her
account for a second. Equally, it seemed impossible that anyone could
write such a credible-sounding article as the one linked above. Two
truthful sources in direct contradiction - I needed facts that no one
could dispute, because if lies are involved (and who won't at least
wonder about the possibility?), it isn't good enough to merely discover
the truth; I also needed it in a form that would allow anyone to prove
it for themselves.So here's what I did. Read more:
http://peacelegacy.org/articles/wind-farms-do-they-kill-birds
An entirely misleading screed,
The EEA does not support the fantasy numbers of bird kills that the
author admits he pulled out of thin air. The "constraints" listed in the
reports are technical ones, unfavorable wind speeds or terrain, not
wildlife.
I'll be charitable and say that maybe this is an old link that has been
updated, but some of the supposed quotes about bird kills do not appear
in the article.
The author of this screed also makes a math error. Well, actually the
number crunching is correct, but the interpretation is wrong (and having
run out of charity, it is usually deliberately misstated). He calculates
the speed of the blade at its tip, using this speed to imply that there
is not enough time for a bird to avoid a strike.
But the rotors are fixed; that is, they cover the same radians no matter
where on the blade you check, So even thought the tips are moving
faster, they must cover so much more distance that they are no more
likely to strike a bird than the slow moving inner points.
Denmark generates 25% of its electricity, about 3.2 gwh, by wind. Bird
deaths on the order this author suggests, 100,000 per gigawatt of
generation, would mean more than 320,000 dead birds, an obvious public
health hazard that has not been observed.
No, this is just another propaganda piece put out by the fossil fuel
industry.
Larry |
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| Don H... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:59 pm |
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Guest
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"Ron House" <rhouse at (no spam) smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:4AA5DD42.7050709 at (no spam) smartchat.net.au...
Quote: A short while ago I read a shocking and disturbing article about bird
deaths from wind farms on climaterealists.com. I immediately asked
myself: "Is that really true?" I wanted to know the right answer to this
question, whether or not I liked it. If we want to create a peace legacy
for future generations, to safeguard the planet for both humans and our
non-human friends, we need to know the truth.
The issue is this: the story above claims that millions of birds are
killed by wind farms. But a "green" friend I mentioned this to told me
that this is absurd: she had studied wind farms in depth, she had
personally visited them, and they were the safest, most
wildlife-friendly places imaginable; the blades rotate so sedately
nothing could possibly be killed by them; and there wasn't a dead or
injured bird to be found anywhere around about. She went so far as to
wonder if the writers of the above article weren't simply lying through
their teeth.
The paradox I was struggling with was this: my green friend is without
doubt one of the most truthful people I know. I did not doubt her
account for a second. Equally, it seemed impossible that anyone could
write such a credible-sounding article as the one linked above. Two
truthful sources in direct contradiction - I needed facts that no one
could dispute, because if lies are involved (and who won't at least
wonder about the possibility?), it isn't good enough to merely discover
the truth; I also needed it in a form that would allow anyone to prove
it for themselves.So here's what I did. Read more:
http://peacelegacy.org/articles/wind-farms-do-they-kill-birds
--
Ron House
Building Peace: http://peacelegacy.org
Australian Birds: http://wingedhearts.org
Principle of Goodness academic site: http://principleofgoodness.net
# I surmise the rotary arms move so relatively slowly that most birds can
see and avoid them.
My only objection to these spiky windmills is aesthetic - they look ugly.
Is a wind-turbine generator, like the intake of a jet plane not
feasible? - or wasn't even considered?
You could pack more of them to the square yard... |
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| Sid9... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:07 pm |
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"Don H" <donlhumphries at (no spam) bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:mtApm.39455$ze1.35541 at (no spam) news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Quote: "Ron House" <rhouse at (no spam) smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:4AA5DD42.7050709 at (no spam) smartchat.net.au...
A short while ago I read a shocking and disturbing
article about bird
deaths from wind farms on climaterealists.com. I
immediately asked
myself: "Is that really true?" I wanted to know the right
answer to this
question, whether or not I liked it. If we want to create
a peace legacy
for future generations, to safeguard the planet for both
humans and our
non-human friends, we need to know the truth.
The issue is this: the story above claims that millions
of birds are
killed by wind farms. But a "green" friend I mentioned
this to told me
that this is absurd: she had studied wind farms in depth,
she had
personally visited them, and they were the safest, most
wildlife-friendly places imaginable; the blades rotate so
sedately
nothing could possibly be killed by them; and there
wasn't a dead or
injured bird to be found anywhere around about. She went
so far as to
wonder if the writers of the above article weren't simply
lying through
their teeth.
The paradox I was struggling with was this: my green
friend is without
doubt one of the most truthful people I know. I did not
doubt her
account for a second. Equally, it seemed impossible that
anyone could
write such a credible-sounding article as the one linked
above. Two
truthful sources in direct contradiction - I needed facts
that no one
could dispute, because if lies are involved (and who
won't at least
wonder about the possibility?), it isn't good enough to
merely discover
the truth; I also needed it in a form that would allow
anyone to prove
it for themselves.So here's what I did. Read more:
http://peacelegacy.org/articles/wind-farms-do-they-kill-birds
--
Ron House
Building Peace: http://peacelegacy.org
Australian Birds: http://wingedhearts.org
Principle of Goodness academic site:
http://principleofgoodness.net
# I surmise the rotary arms move so relatively slowly that
most birds can
see and avoid them.
My only objection to these spiky windmills is
aesthetic - they look ugly.
Is a wind-turbine generator, like the intake of a jet
plane not
feasible? - or wasn't even considered?
You could pack more of them to the square yard...
That's funny!
I think those windmills are beautiful, graceful.
Beauty is in the eyes of the behold.
Not only are they beautiful, they generate electricity! |
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| RichTravsky... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:24 pm |
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Guest
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Don H wrote:
Quote: "Ron House" <rhouse at (no spam) smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
A short while ago I read a shocking and disturbing article about bird
deaths from wind farms on climaterealists.com. I immediately asked
myself: "Is that really true?" I wanted to know the right answer to this
question, whether or not I liked it. If we want to create a peace legacy
for future generations, to safeguard the planet for both humans and our
non-human friends, we need to know the truth.
The issue is this: the story above claims that millions of birds are
killed by wind farms. But a "green" friend I mentioned this to told me
that this is absurd: she had studied wind farms in depth, she had
personally visited them, and they were the safest, most
wildlife-friendly places imaginable; the blades rotate so sedately
nothing could possibly be killed by them; and there wasn't a dead or
injured bird to be found anywhere around about. She went so far as to
wonder if the writers of the above article weren't simply lying through
their teeth.
The paradox I was struggling with was this: my green friend is without
doubt one of the most truthful people I know. I did not doubt her
account for a second. Equally, it seemed impossible that anyone could
write such a credible-sounding article as the one linked above. Two
truthful sources in direct contradiction - I needed facts that no one
could dispute, because if lies are involved (and who won't at least
wonder about the possibility?), it isn't good enough to merely discover
the truth; I also needed it in a form that would allow anyone to prove
it for themselves.So here's what I did. Read more:
http://peacelegacy.org/articles/wind-farms-do-they-kill-birds
# I surmise the rotary arms move so relatively slowly that most birds can
see and avoid them.
For the most part.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11834-bats-take-a-battering-at-wind-farms.html
Wind farms do kill animals in flight, but not always the obvious ones. Bats,
not birds, appear to be the main victims of land-based wind turbines in the
US, according to a report by the US National Research Council.
...
But then there's
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327243.100-circling-turbines-spell-doom-for-vultures.html
Circling turbines spell doom for vultures
Here's what happens to bats
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14593-wind-turbines-make-bat-lungs-explode.html
Quote: My only objection to these spiky windmills is aesthetic - they look ugly.
Is a wind-turbine generator, like the intake of a jet plane not
feasible? - or wasn't even considered?
You could pack more of them to the square yard...
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=wind+turbine+jet&fp=3972e951e7c7d8e7
Check out also
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=vertical+wind+turbine&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi |
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| Larry Hewitt... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:06 am |
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Guest
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Don H wrote:
Quote: "Ron House" <rhouse at (no spam) smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:4AA5DD42.7050709 at (no spam) smartchat.net.au...
A short while ago I read a shocking and disturbing article about bird
deaths from wind farms on climaterealists.com. I immediately asked
myself: "Is that really true?" I wanted to know the right answer to this
question, whether or not I liked it. If we want to create a peace legacy
for future generations, to safeguard the planet for both humans and our
non-human friends, we need to know the truth.
The issue is this: the story above claims that millions of birds are
killed by wind farms. But a "green" friend I mentioned this to told me
that this is absurd: she had studied wind farms in depth, she had
personally visited them, and they were the safest, most
wildlife-friendly places imaginable; the blades rotate so sedately
nothing could possibly be killed by them; and there wasn't a dead or
injured bird to be found anywhere around about. She went so far as to
wonder if the writers of the above article weren't simply lying through
their teeth.
The paradox I was struggling with was this: my green friend is without
doubt one of the most truthful people I know. I did not doubt her
account for a second. Equally, it seemed impossible that anyone could
write such a credible-sounding article as the one linked above. Two
truthful sources in direct contradiction - I needed facts that no one
could dispute, because if lies are involved (and who won't at least
wonder about the possibility?), it isn't good enough to merely discover
the truth; I also needed it in a form that would allow anyone to prove
it for themselves.So here's what I did. Read more:
http://peacelegacy.org/articles/wind-farms-do-they-kill-birds
--
Ron House
Building Peace: http://peacelegacy.org
Australian Birds: http://wingedhearts.org
Principle of Goodness academic site: http://principleofgoodness.net
# I surmise the rotary arms move so relatively slowly that most birds can
see and avoid them.
My only objection to these spiky windmills is aesthetic - they look ugly.
Is a wind-turbine generator, like the intake of a jet plane not
feasible? - or wasn't even considered?
You could pack more of them to the square yard...
To be effective such a turbine would require the use of ultra high speed
winds. They are technically possible, but are expensive to make, noisy,
expensive to maintain, and would not reduce the area of a wind farm
(think of a funnel --- to drive a high speed turbine a lot of air would
need to be compressed into a smaller volume).
The bird kill worries are a red herring --- experience in Holland where
25%, 3.2 gwh, of their electricity is wind generated shows little
wildlife loss, certainly not the the 100,000 per gwh the author suggests.
Larry |
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