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| \"Jack\"-:)... |
 Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:46 am |
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Guest
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On Aug 4, 4:55�pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj... at (no spam) hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Quote: ""Jack"-  " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote in message
news:b7e93ca1-770a-4845-9101-29e1503ed7da at (no spam) 26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 4, 1:22 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj... at (no spam) hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
You cannot possibly get the results you want, when someone else pays for
your needs. The reason is simple. When someone else pays for what you
need, you do not care how much it cost, you WILL take advantantage of that
"free care". When they do not care how much it cost, and use the system,
you have lost the most effective means to control costs, and that is when
the user of the service is the one paying for the service. As the cost of
the service rises, the organization that is paying for that service, has
to
try to pay for the increase in cost. But like taxes, people like to get
the
service, they just don't like to pay for the service. So, organizations
and
government do not like to increase the fees they collect to pay for that
increase in cost. So, their fallback position is to resort to some form
of
rationing. But there is a difference when someone else makes the
rationing
decision for you and when you make that rationing decision. When you make
the rationing decision, that was your choice. When someone else makes
that
rationing decision for you, you have not say in the matter, you won't get
the care you think you want or need. And the fundamental problem is
medical
inflation.
""Jack"- " <taxservice.fis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d1088ee-fccb-45fd-8088-cb42eb58b4e5 at (no spam) k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
AFRAID OF THE TRUTH - Gangs of Republican HOODLUMS Dispatched to !
Intimidate Elected Officials!!!
AFRAID OF THE TRUTH - Gangs of Right Wing Republican HOODLUMS are
being dispatched to disrupt truthful discussions about the health care
system being designed to save their lives, the lives of their
children, YOU, your children, familym, and friends.
Don't let them get away with it. Don't let them frighten you, with
LIES, as has been the practice of the Republican party for too long.
They've all but totally destroyed this once greater nation by
bankrupting it mentally, morally and financially.
Don't let them get away with it!!! Make sure to contact your
senators and congress persons to demand that they install a single
payer health plan to reign in the pharmaceutical, hospital, and
insurance providers who are more interested in their ill gotten
profits than they are the health and well being of you and ALL the
citizens of this once greater nation. If there is anything to fear,
it's the system which now is designed to take your money FIRST and
then your life when/if you go broike.
Don't let them get away with it!!! Stop the Swiftboaters in their
tracks!!!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
THE RAATIONING DECISION IS NOW BEING MADE FOR YOU BY THE INSURANCE
COMPANIES. (excuse the caps)))- �Emergency rooms now take in those
who might not otherwise be able to pay. �What makes you think that
those, now covered by insurance, do not take advantage of the system.
No matter what the system, there are those who are inclined to defeat
it or take advantage of it to the fullest. �We, the taxpayers, are
already saddled with the costs. �BTW, when it comes to sharing, the
risk is being shared already �That's what insurance is all about
People pool their resources. �The smaller the pool, the greater the
expense. �When everyone is covered (no free ride) a better system, at
lesser expense, will be the result.
It doesn't make a difference is the answer. �You can have a system where the
individual makes the rationing decision for themselves, or someone else
makes the rationing decision for you. �Whether it is an insurance company or
the government, when they are the ones who pay the bill, you have given them
the right to make that rationing decision.
Medicare is already a single payer entity. �I don't know of anyone who
abuses that system. �Are you aware of anyone who does??? �The same
with veterans who are covered under another single payer plan. �I know
of no one who misuses that system. �Are you aware of anyone who
does???
It is not a question of who does or does not abuse the system. �It is a
matter of promises made that they cannot possibly keep, without someone
getting screwed in the end. �It is also not a question of what they are
doing now, it is a question of what will happen in the future. �The simple
fact is that medical inflation is rising faster than the overall inflation
rate. �That means that what cost "x" dollars today, will cost "x" plus "y"
dollars for the very same procedure. �That in turns mean that if you want to
maintain equilibrium, i.e. no lost of care, then you have to come up with
the money to pay for that increase. �But that is a never ending process,
because they have not addressed the cause of medical inflation. �So, medical
inflation continues to increase the cost of that care. �In any event,
someone has to pay for that increase, and they will have to pay more and
more over time, for the very same thing.
Those who are against a single payer program are also against Social
Security, veterans benefits, and any/every government funded program.
Face it, Oki, we live in a semi-socialistic state as it is. �When you
threaten to take away a benefit, people scream bloody murder �When a
benefit presents a threat to those who capitaize/gouge to the point
where an expense is no longer possible to be met by the consumer, we
have a real problem. �The system, as it exists, is bankrupting
indivduals and threatens to bankrupt the entire nation. �Something has
to be done, my friend, and imnsho, single payer coverage is the only
way to go.
Well, what is wrong with that. �Let us take this one at a time. �Social
Security is a program that has also made promises it cannot possibly keep,
so just to keep the program floating, someone is going to get screwed to
continue providing these benefits. �And since government does not like to
just screw the contributors, they will say it will be a "shared sacrifice"
but in the end it is all the same thing....someone gets the short end of the
stick. �Besides, ask yourself this very basic question. �What was the
purpose of Social Security? �Was it to help those who do not need the help,
or was it for those who needed the help? �Is the system helping those who
don/'t need the help, or is it just helping those who do need the help?
Wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper to help those who do need the help,
rather than trying to help everyone to some degree?
Sadly, the current legislation doesn't go all the way in setting up
the system I would seek. �The hundreds of millions of dollars being
spent to propagandize to the benefit of the insurers, hopefully, will
not work. �Under a single payer plan, those hundreds of millions woud
be going towards better healh care for all of us. �They're taking
those millions out of the premiums we now pay. �Using our own money to
defeat us is not uncommon for industries which gouge us into
brankruptcy (your money or your life) as they cry all the way to the
bank. �50,000 people a month are now losing their health care
benefits. �YOU may end up in that group. �There are no real guarantees
that you won't!!!
If you want to be treated like an adult, you do not want someone taking care
of you, you would prefer to take care of yourself. �If you put a high value
on our freedoms, you do not want someone paying for what you want or need,
because the tradeoff is less freedom. �But the choice is ours to make. �Do
we want to be treated like a child or like the adult we are. �Do we want to
maintain as much freedom as we can have, or are we willing to sacrifice our
freedoms for more safety....becauset that is the tradeoff in the end.
Someone once asi, if you are willing to sacrifice safety for freedom, you
deserve neither saftety or freedom....that is the choice that we have to
make.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
"Sacrifice safety for freedom"??? How do you figure??? The plan
being offered doesn't deny any of us, who can afford it, the right to
continue with the health plans we have or continue using the doctors
we trust to care for us. The health of the nation is a serious
matter. When citizens are priced out of the market, its just too
serious a matter that it not be addressed.
This situation has naught to do with growing up. It has to do with
maturity. If health care is inadequate, or unobtainable for the
masses, it doesn't make sense for them not to find ways to get it.
50,000 people A MONTH are losing their health care benefits and have
no place to turn. That you are not yet in that position unless, like
me, you are more secure than most other people doesn't mean that you
can trust that security.
Social Security was set up as a crutch for seniors who would not,
otherwise, be able to survive without it. Prior to its initiation,
parents had to sue their children for as litte as a dollar a month.
MOST had no children on whom they could depend.and the depression had
the masses overwhelmed by that event. Basicaly, social programs are
set up to help the masses The money expended by those programs help
the economy with the money it needs to survive Without that money
going around, it cannot come around. Social Security is not a welfare
program. We all pay for it (with few exceptions). That Republicans
have sought to find ways to destroy it, from the very beginning, is no
secret for those who have lived through their antics. You appear to
be one of those who believes more in the survival of the fittest at
the expense of all others who contribute to the well being of our
society. There are very few who are so selfish, especially when they
are confronted with, and understand, the facts.
PROMISES can be kept, Oki!!= In the instance of governing, it
relies on the will of those whom we elect to bargain for us to keep
them. |
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| Stevie Nichts... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:09 pm |
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On Aug 4, 4:47 pm, fargo116 <fargo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 4, 1:48 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:41 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:10 pm, fargo116 <fargo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
So why don't these dudes give people a chance to answer the questions
that they scream at them at the town halls? Is it because they aren't
really interested in an answer so much as they are in a chance to
scream at congresspeople?
Who says they do? Besides single-payer proponents and
Obamabots, that is.
Oh, here's the answer:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/03/durbin-townhalls-gone-wild/
Carry on.
I wish you would answer the question you've been asked. What's wrong?
Are you afraid you got pegged? For the THIRD time now: Why don't these
dudes give people a chance to answer the questions that they scream at
them at the town halls? Is it because they aren't really interested in
an answer so much as they are in a chance to scream at congresspeople?
I already answered, and you ignored it, so here it is AGAIN:
Who says they do? Besides Obama's surrogates -- and I've
read the ThinkProgress and Kos posts, so don't BS me --
I haven't seen anyone make that claim. Furthermore, if
your Congressman can't handle tough questions from
voters, perhaps he shouldn't be in office. |
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| Stevie Nichts... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:17 pm |
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On Aug 4, 5:12 pm, "\"Jack\"-" <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 4, 3:04 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:53 pm, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Medicare is already a single payer entity. I don't know of anyone who
abuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who does??? The same
with veterans who are covered under another single payer plan. I know
of no one who misuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who
does???
Are you serious? I mean, really? Medicare fraud is *rampant.*
Google "Medicare fraud." Go ahead; I'll wait. .... Did you see the
estimates? $60 billion a year for Medicare fraud alone?
Yo, Stevie!!! When you speak of Medicare fraud, the fraud is not
committed by the recipients It is fraud committed by doctors,
insurance companies, and those in the industry of gouging innocent
recipients
And you're either a fool, a shill, or a liar. Trivial proof:
----
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/12/AR2008061203915.html
All it took to bilk the federal government out of $105 million was a
laptop computer.
From her Mediterranean-style townhouse, a high school dropout named
Rita
Campos Ramirez orchestrated what prosecutors call the largest health-
care fraud by one person. Over nearly four years, she electronically
submitted more than 140,000 Medicare claims for unnecessary equipment
and services. She used the proceeds to finance big-ticket purchases,
including two condominiums and a Mercedes-Benz.
Health-care experts say the simplicity of Campos Ramirez's scheme
underscores the scope of the growing fraud problem and the need to
devote more resources to theft prevention. Law enforcement authorities
estimate that health-care fraud costs taxpayers more than $60 billion
each year. [...]
After pleading guilty to filing false claims, she has helped
authorities
win indictments against more than half a dozen doctors AND PATIENTS
who allegedly accepted kickbacks for pretending to receive costly HIV
drug therapy. [Emphasis added]
----
Here's a hint for the next time you try to BS me: when I lay a
trap for a rube, I always, *always* have the facts at hand. |
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| fargo116... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:32 pm |
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On Aug 4, 4:09 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 4, 4:47 pm, fargo116 <fargo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 1:48 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:41 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:10 pm, fargo116 <fargo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
So why don't these dudes give people a chance to answer the questions
that they scream at them at the town halls? Is it because they aren't
really interested in an answer so much as they are in a chance to
scream at congresspeople?
Who says they do? Besides single-payer proponents and
Obamabots, that is.
Oh, here's the answer:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/03/durbin-townhalls-gone-wild/
Carry on.
I wish you would answer the question you've been asked. What's wrong?
Are you afraid you got pegged? For the THIRD time now: Why don't these
dudes give people a chance to answer the questions that they scream at
them at the town halls? Is it because they aren't really interested in
an answer so much as they are in a chance to scream at congresspeople?
I already answered, and you ignored it,
Oh no you didn't. You posted a link that doesn't answer the question.
So, for the FOURTH time: 'Why don't these dudes give people a chance
to answer the questions that they scream at them at the town halls? Is
it because they aren't really interested inan answer so much as they
are in a chance to scream at congresspeople?'
Quote: so here it is AGAIN:
Who says they do?
I'll answer yours JUSSSSST as soon as you answer mine.
S. Olson |
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| art clemons... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:11 pm |
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Stevie Nichts wrote:
Quote: Um, "rationing" is part of the free-market economy (and if
I need to explain that to you, you flunk Econ 101). In a
free market, people can choose for themselves whether to
pursue cost-effective strategies based on their own resources.
IOW, if you don't like the insuror's decisions, you're free to
get care elsewhere -- an alternative that simply doesn't exist
under the kind of single-payer system that Obama envisions.
Uh what part of not having the money to pay for medical care and being
forced to not seek treatment do you see as not a form of rationing? What
part of having the insurer choose to not pay for treatment isn't a form of
rationing. You don't seem to want to admit that rationing goes on now.
Further, there is no "free market" in health care now if there ever was one.
Any possible notion of a medical free market disappeared once health
insurance became a necessity rather than an option. |
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| The Doctor (as portrayed by Richard Hurndall)... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:22 pm |
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On Aug 4, 3:41 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 4, 3:10 pm, fargo116 <fargo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
So why don't these dudes give people a chance to answer the questions
that they scream at them at the town halls? Is it because they aren't
really interested in an answer so much as they are in a chance to
scream at congresspeople?
Who says they do?
http://www.youtube.com/my_subscriptions?pi=0&ps=20&sf=added&sa=0&sq=&dm=2&s=ga5NVvLv19c# |
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| Jerry Okamura... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:55 pm |
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Guest
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""Jack"-" <TaxService at (no spam) aol.com> wrote in message
news:b7e93ca1-770a-4845-9101-29e1503ed7da at (no spam) 26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 4, 1:22�pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj... at (no spam) hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Quote: You cannot possibly get the results you want, when someone else pays for
your needs. �The reason is simple. �When someone else pays for what you
need, you do not care how much it cost, you WILL take advantantage of that
"free care". �When they do not care how much it cost, and use the system,
you have lost the most effective means to control costs, and that is when
the user of the service is the one paying for the service. �As the cost of
the service rises, the organization that is paying for that service, has
to
try to pay for the increase in cost. �But like taxes, people like to get
the
service, they just don't like to pay for the service. �So, organizations
and
government do not like to increase the fees they collect to pay for that
increase in cost. �So, their fallback position is to resort to some form
of
rationing. �But there is a difference when someone else makes the
rationing
decision for you and when you make that rationing decision. �When you make
the rationing decision, that was your choice. �When someone else makes
that
rationing decision for you, you have not say in the matter, you won't get
the care you think you want or need. �And the fundamental problem is
medical
inflation.
""Jack"- " <taxservice.fis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d1088ee-fccb-45fd-8088-cb42eb58b4e5 at (no spam) k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
AFRAID OF THE TRUTH - Gangs of Republican HOODLUMS Dispatched to !
Intimidate Elected Officials!!!
AFRAID OF THE TRUTH - Gangs of Right Wing Republican HOODLUMS are
being dispatched to disrupt truthful discussions about the health care
system being designed to save their lives, the lives of their
children, YOU, your children, familym, and friends.
Don't let them get away with it. �Don't let them frighten you, with
LIES, as has been the practice of the Republican party for too long.
They've all but totally destroyed this once greater nation by
bankrupting it mentally, morally and financially.
Don't let them get away with it!!! � Make sure to contact your
senators and congress persons to demand that they install a single
payer health plan to reign in the pharmaceutical, hospital, and
insurance providers who are more interested in their ill gotten
profits than they are the health and well being of you and ALL the
citizens of this once greater nation. � If there is anything to fear,
it's the system which now is designed to take your money FIRST and
then your life when/if you go broike.
Don't let them get away with it!!! �Stop the Swiftboaters in their
tracks!!!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
THE RAATIONING DECISION IS NOW BEING MADE FOR YOU BY THE INSURANCE
COMPANIES. (excuse the caps)))- Emergency rooms now take in those
who might not otherwise be able to pay. What makes you think that
those, now covered by insurance, do not take advantage of the system.
No matter what the system, there are those who are inclined to defeat
it or take advantage of it to the fullest. We, the taxpayers, are
already saddled with the costs. BTW, when it comes to sharing, the
risk is being shared already That's what insurance is all about
People pool their resources. The smaller the pool, the greater the
expense. When everyone is covered (no free ride) a better system, at
lesser expense, will be the result.
It doesn't make a difference is the answer. You can have a system where the
individual makes the rationing decision for themselves, or someone else
makes the rationing decision for you. Whether it is an insurance company or
the government, when they are the ones who pay the bill, you have given them
the right to make that rationing decision.
Medicare is already a single payer entity. I don't know of anyone who
abuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who does??? The same
with veterans who are covered under another single payer plan. I know
of no one who misuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who
does???
It is not a question of who does or does not abuse the system. It is a
matter of promises made that they cannot possibly keep, without someone
getting screwed in the end. It is also not a question of what they are
doing now, it is a question of what will happen in the future. The simple
fact is that medical inflation is rising faster than the overall inflation
rate. That means that what cost "x" dollars today, will cost "x" plus "y"
dollars for the very same procedure. That in turns mean that if you want to
maintain equilibrium, i.e. no lost of care, then you have to come up with
the money to pay for that increase. But that is a never ending process,
because they have not addressed the cause of medical inflation. So, medical
inflation continues to increase the cost of that care. In any event,
someone has to pay for that increase, and they will have to pay more and
more over time, for the very same thing.
Those who are against a single payer program are also against Social
Security, veterans benefits, and any/every government funded program.
Face it, Oki, we live in a semi-socialistic state as it is. When you
threaten to take away a benefit, people scream bloody murder When a
benefit presents a threat to those who capitaize/gouge to the point
where an expense is no longer possible to be met by the consumer, we
have a real problem. The system, as it exists, is bankrupting
indivduals and threatens to bankrupt the entire nation. Something has
to be done, my friend, and imnsho, single payer coverage is the only
way to go.
Well, what is wrong with that. Let us take this one at a time. Social
Security is a program that has also made promises it cannot possibly keep,
so just to keep the program floating, someone is going to get screwed to
continue providing these benefits. And since government does not like to
just screw the contributors, they will say it will be a "shared sacrifice"
but in the end it is all the same thing....someone gets the short end of the
stick. Besides, ask yourself this very basic question. What was the
purpose of Social Security? Was it to help those who do not need the help,
or was it for those who needed the help? Is the system helping those who
don/'t need the help, or is it just helping those who do need the help?
Wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper to help those who do need the help,
rather than trying to help everyone to some degree?
Sadly, the current legislation doesn't go all the way in setting up
the system I would seek. The hundreds of millions of dollars being
spent to propagandize to the benefit of the insurers, hopefully, will
not work. Under a single payer plan, those hundreds of millions woud
be going towards better healh care for all of us. They're taking
those millions out of the premiums we now pay. Using our own money to
defeat us is not uncommon for industries which gouge us into
brankruptcy (your money or your life) as they cry all the way to the
bank. 50,000 people a month are now losing their health care
benefits. YOU may end up in that group. There are no real guarantees
that you won't!!!
If you want to be treated like an adult, you do not want someone taking care
of you, you would prefer to take care of yourself. If you put a high value
on our freedoms, you do not want someone paying for what you want or need,
because the tradeoff is less freedom. But the choice is ours to make. Do
we want to be treated like a child or like the adult we are. Do we want to
maintain as much freedom as we can have, or are we willing to sacrifice our
freedoms for more safety....becauset that is the tradeoff in the end.
Someone once asi, if you are willing to sacrifice safety for freedom, you
deserve neither saftety or freedom....that is the choice that we have to
make. |
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| Jerry Okamura... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:56 pm |
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Guest
|
""Jack"-" <TaxService at (no spam) aol.com> wrote in message
news:b7e93ca1-770a-4845-9101-29e1503ed7da at (no spam) 26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 4, 1:22�pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj... at (no spam) hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Quote: You cannot possibly get the results you want, when someone else pays for
your needs. �The reason is simple. �When someone else pays for what you
need, you do not care how much it cost, you WILL take advantantage of that
"free care". �When they do not care how much it cost, and use the system,
you have lost the most effective means to control costs, and that is when
the user of the service is the one paying for the service. �As the cost of
the service rises, the organization that is paying for that service, has
to
try to pay for the increase in cost. �But like taxes, people like to get
the
service, they just don't like to pay for the service. �So, organizations
and
government do not like to increase the fees they collect to pay for that
increase in cost. �So, their fallback position is to resort to some form
of
rationing. �But there is a difference when someone else makes the
rationing
decision for you and when you make that rationing decision. �When you make
the rationing decision, that was your choice. �When someone else makes
that
rationing decision for you, you have not say in the matter, you won't get
the care you think you want or need. �And the fundamental problem is
medical
inflation.
""Jack"- " <taxservice.fis... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d1088ee-fccb-45fd-8088-cb42eb58b4e5 at (no spam) k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
AFRAID OF THE TRUTH - Gangs of Republican HOODLUMS Dispatched to !
Intimidate Elected Officials!!!
AFRAID OF THE TRUTH - Gangs of Right Wing Republican HOODLUMS are
being dispatched to disrupt truthful discussions about the health care
system being designed to save their lives, the lives of their
children, YOU, your children, familym, and friends.
Don't let them get away with it. �Don't let them frighten you, with
LIES, as has been the practice of the Republican party for too long.
They've all but totally destroyed this once greater nation by
bankrupting it mentally, morally and financially.
Don't let them get away with it!!! � Make sure to contact your
senators and congress persons to demand that they install a single
payer health plan to reign in the pharmaceutical, hospital, and
insurance providers who are more interested in their ill gotten
profits than they are the health and well being of you and ALL the
citizens of this once greater nation. � If there is anything to fear,
it's the system which now is designed to take your money FIRST and
then your life when/if you go broike.
Don't let them get away with it!!! �Stop the Swiftboaters in their
tracks!!!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
THE RAATIONING DECISION IS NOW BEING MADE FOR YOU BY THE INSURANCE
COMPANIES. (excuse the caps)))- Emergency rooms now take in those
who might not otherwise be able to pay. What makes you think that
those, now covered by insurance, do not take advantage of the system.
No matter what the system, there are those who are inclined to defeat
it or take advantage of it to the fullest. We, the taxpayers, are
already saddled with the costs. BTW, when it comes to sharing, the
risk is being shared already That's what insurance is all about
People pool their resources. The smaller the pool, the greater the
expense. When everyone is covered (no free ride) a better system, at
lesser expense, will be the result.
It doesn't make a difference is the answer. You can have a system where the
individual makes the rationing decision for themselves, or someone else
makes the rationing decision for you. Whether it is an insurance company or
the government, when they are the ones who pay the bill, you have given them
the right to make that rationing decision.
Medicare is already a single payer entity. I don't know of anyone who
abuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who does??? The same
with veterans who are covered under another single payer plan. I know
of no one who misuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who
does???
It is not a question of who does or does not abuse the system. It is a
matter of promises made that they cannot possibly keep, without someone
getting screwed in the end. It is also not a question of what they are
doing now, it is a question of what will happen in the future. The simple
fact is that medical inflation is rising faster than the overall inflation
rate. That means that what cost "x" dollars today, will cost "x" plus "y"
dollars for the very same procedure. That in turns mean that if you want to
maintain equilibrium, i.e. no lost of care, then you have to come up with
the money to pay for that increase. But that is a never ending process,
because they have not addressed the cause of medical inflation. So, medical
inflation continues to increase the cost of that care. In any event,
someone has to pay for that increase, and they will have to pay more and
more over time, for the very same thing.
Those who are against a single payer program are also against Social
Security, veterans benefits, and any/every government funded program.
Face it, Oki, we live in a semi-socialistic state as it is. When you
threaten to take away a benefit, people scream bloody murder When a
benefit presents a threat to those who capitaize/gouge to the point
where an expense is no longer possible to be met by the consumer, we
have a real problem. The system, as it exists, is bankrupting
indivduals and threatens to bankrupt the entire nation. Something has
to be done, my friend, and imnsho, single payer coverage is the only
way to go.
Well, what is wrong with that. Let us take this one at a time. Social
Security is a program that has also made promises it cannot possibly keep,
so just to keep the program floating, someone is going to get screwed to
continue providing these benefits. And since government does not like to
just screw the contributors, they will say it will be a "shared sacrifice"
but in the end it is all the same thing....someone gets the short end of the
stick. Besides, ask yourself this very basic question. What was the
purpose of Social Security? Was it to help those who do not need the help,
or was it for those who needed the help? Is the system helping those who
don/'t need the help, or is it just helping those who do need the help?
Wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper to help those who do need the help,
rather than trying to help everyone to some degree?
Sadly, the current legislation doesn't go all the way in setting up
the system I would seek. The hundreds of millions of dollars being
spent to propagandize to the benefit of the insurers, hopefully, will
not work. Under a single payer plan, those hundreds of millions woud
be going towards better healh care for all of us. They're taking
those millions out of the premiums we now pay. Using our own money to
defeat us is not uncommon for industries which gouge us into
brankruptcy (your money or your life) as they cry all the way to the
bank. 50,000 people a month are now losing their health care
benefits. YOU may end up in that group. There are no real guarantees
that you won't!!!
If you want to be treated like an adult, you do not want someone taking care
of you, you would prefer to take care of yourself. If you put a high value
on our freedoms, you do not want someone paying for what you want or need,
because the tradeoff is less freedom. But the choice is ours to make. Do
we want to be treated like a child or like the adult we are. Do we want to
maintain as much freedom as we can have, or are we willing to sacrifice our
freedoms for more safety....becauset that is the tradeoff in the end.
Someone once asi, if you are willing to sacrifice safety for freedom, you
deserve neither saftety or freedom....that is the choice that we have to
make. |
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| Stevie Nichts... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:36 pm |
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Guest
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On Aug 4, 6:32 pm, fargo116 <fargo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 4, 4:09 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 4:47 pm, fargo116 <fargo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 1:48 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:41 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:10 pm, fargo116 <fargo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
So why don't these dudes give people a chance to answer the questions
that they scream at them at the town halls? Is it because they aren't
really interested in an answer so much as they are in a chance to
scream at congresspeople?
Who says they do? Besides single-payer proponents and
Obamabots, that is.
Oh, here's the answer:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/03/durbin-townhalls-gone-wild/
Carry on.
I wish you would answer the question you've been asked. What's wrong?
Are you afraid you got pegged? For the THIRD time now: Why don't these
dudes give people a chance to answer the questions that they scream at
them at the town halls? Is it because they aren't really interested in
an answer so much as they are in a chance to scream at congresspeople?
I already answered, and you ignored it,
Oh no you didn't. You posted a link that doesn't answer the question.
WTF? I answered you in words. Naturally, you simply
deleted my answer, unread. Go on, scroll up; I'll wait
while you discover you're Konfused. |
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| 5096 Dead, 229 since 1/20/09... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:35 pm |
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Guest
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On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:17:33 -0700, Stevie Nichts wrote:
Quote: On Aug 4, 5:12Â pm, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:04 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:53 pm, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Medicare is already a single payer entity. I don't know of anyone
who abuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who does??? The
same with veterans who are covered under another single payer plan.
I know of no one who misuses that system. Are you aware of anyone
who does???
Are you serious? I mean, really? Medicare fraud is *rampant.* Google
"Medicare fraud." Go ahead; I'll wait. .... Did you see the
estimates? $60 billion a year for Medicare fraud alone?
Yo, Stevie!!! Â When you speak of Medicare fraud, the fraud is not
committed by the recipients  It is fraud committed by doctors,
insurance companies, and those in the industry of gouging innocent
recipients
And you're either a fool, a shill, or a liar. Trivial proof: ----
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/12/
AR2008061203915.html
All it took to bilk the federal government out of $105 million was a
laptop computer.
From her Mediterranean-style townhouse, a high school dropout named Rita
Campos Ramirez orchestrated what prosecutors call the largest health-
care fraud by one person. Over nearly four years, she electronically
submitted more than 140,000 Medicare claims for unnecessary equipment
and services. She used the proceeds to finance big-ticket purchases,
including two condominiums and a Mercedes-Benz.
Health-care experts say the simplicity of Campos Ramirez's scheme
underscores the scope of the growing fraud problem and the need to
devote more resources to theft prevention. Law enforcement authorities
estimate that health-care fraud costs taxpayers more than $60 billion
each year. [...]
After pleading guilty to filing false claims, she has helped authorities
win indictments against more than half a dozen doctors AND PATIENTS who
allegedly accepted kickbacks for pretending to receive costly HIV drug
therapy. [Emphasis added]
----
Here's a hint for the next time you try to BS me: when I lay a trap for
a rube, I always, *always* have the facts at hand.
Hey, guess what, Nikky? Some people are thieves. That's why we have
cops and courts and stuff like that.
--
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to |
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| \"Jack\"-:)... |
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:05 pm |
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Guest
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On Aug 4, 6:17�pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 4, 5:12�pm, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:04 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:53 pm, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Medicare is already a single payer entity. I don't know of anyone who
abuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who does??? The same
with veterans who are covered under another single payer plan. I know
of no one who misuses that system. Are you aware of anyone who
does???
Are you serious? I mean, really? Medicare fraud is *rampant.*
Google "Medicare fraud." Go ahead; I'll wait. .... Did you see the
estimates? $60 billion a year for Medicare fraud alone?
Yo, Stevie!!! � When you speak of Medicare fraud, the fraud is not
committed by the recipients �It is fraud committed by doctors,
insurance companies, and those in the industry of gouging innocent
recipients
And you're either a fool, a shill, or a liar. Trivial proof:
----http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/12/AR200....
All it took to bilk the federal government out of $105 million was a
laptop computer.
From her Mediterranean-style townhouse, a high school dropout named
Rita
Campos Ramirez orchestrated what prosecutors call the largest health-
care fraud by one person. Over nearly four years, she electronically
submitted more than 140,000 Medicare claims for unnecessary equipment
and services. She used the proceeds to finance big-ticket purchases,
including two condominiums and a Mercedes-Benz.
Health-care experts say the simplicity of Campos Ramirez's scheme
underscores the scope of the growing fraud problem and the need to
devote more resources to theft prevention. Law enforcement authorities
estimate that health-care fraud costs taxpayers more than $60 billion
each year. �[...]
After pleading guilty to filing false claims, she has helped
authorities
win indictments against more than half a dozen doctors AND PATIENTS
who allegedly accepted kickbacks for pretending to receive costly HIV
drug therapy. �[Emphasis added]
----
Here's a hint for the next time you try to BS me: when I lay a
trap for a rube, I always, *always* have the facts at hand.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You haven't offered anything, at all, Stevie!! If you read post,
instead of reading into it, it qualified that the chief offenders
were the doctors, hospitals, insurance companies. In the case you
present, the individual IN COLUSION with the pros pulled off her
heists.
What is this non sense about "traps??? You're a dime a dozen, my
boy, Not knowing which end is up, you grab at a straw and put it
where the sun don't shine thus producing a bunch of oral crap. |
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| Stevie Nichts... |
| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:50 am |
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Guest
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On Aug 5, 4:05 am, "\"Jack\"-" <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 4, 6:17 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
You haven't offered anything, at all, Stevie!! If you read post,
instead of reading into it, it qualified that the chief offenders
were the doctors, hospitals, insurance companies. In the case you
present, the individual IN COLUSION with the pros pulled off her
heists.
Oh, I see -- you're conflating two different arguments
into one. Very well, let's stipulate that doctors, hospitals,
and insurors are bilking Medicare. Why doesn't Obama
try to stop them from bilking $60 Billion per year? He sure
could use that money for his $4 trillion budget. And
what steps could he take to prevent even *more* fraud
under ObamaCare? |
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| \"Jack\"-:)... |
| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:58 am |
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Guest
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On Aug 5, 7:50�am, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 5, 4:05�am, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 6:17 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
You haven't offered anything, at all, Stevie!! If you read post,
instead of reading into it, �it qualified that the chief offenders
were the doctors, hospitals, insurance companies. �In the case you
present, the individual IN COLUSION with �the pros pulled off her
heists.
Oh, I see -- you're conflating two different arguments
into one. Very well, let's stipulate that doctors, hospitals,
and insurors are bilking Medicare. Why doesn't Obama
try to stop them from bilking $60 Billion per year? He sure
could use that money for his $4 trillion budget. And
what steps could he take to prevent even *more* fraud
under ObamaCare?
What the heck do you think this current struggle is about, if it isn't
to stop the bilking as it creates a sustainable pool in which no one
is denied health care??? |
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| Stevie Nichts... |
| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:05 am |
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Guest
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On Aug 5, 10:58�am, "\"Jack\"-" <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 5, 7:50 am, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 5, 4:05 am, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 6:17 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
You haven't offered anything, at all, Stevie!! If you read post,
instead of reading into it, it qualified that the chief offenders
were the doctors, hospitals, insurance companies. In the case you
present, the individual IN COLUSION with the pros pulled off her
heists.
Oh, I see -- you're conflating two different arguments
into one. Very well, let's stipulate that doctors, hospitals,
and insurors are bilking Medicare. Why doesn't Obama
try to stop them from bilking $60 Billion per year? He sure
could use that money for his $4 trillion budget. And
what steps could he take to prevent even *more* fraud
under ObamaCare?
What the heck do you think this current struggle is about, if it isn't
to stop the bilking as it creates a sustainable pool in which no one
is denied health care???
So your argument is... what? That even though fraud is
rampant under the single-payer Medicare system, all that
will magically stop under single-payer ObamaCare? |
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| \"Jack\"-:)... |
| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:18 am |
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Guest
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On Aug 5, 11:05�am, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Aug 5, 10:58 am, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
On Aug 5, 7:50 am, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 5, 4:05 am, "\"Jack\"- " <TaxServ... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
On Aug 4, 6:17 pm, Stevie Nichts <nix2nic... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
You haven't offered anything, at all, Stevie!! If you read post,
instead of reading into it, it qualified that the chief offenders
were the doctors, hospitals, insurance companies. In the case you
present, the individual IN COLUSION with the pros pulled off her
heists.
Oh, I see -- you're conflating two different arguments
into one. Very well, let's stipulate that doctors, hospitals,
and insurors are bilking Medicare. Why doesn't Obama
try to stop them from bilking $60 Billion per year? He sure
could use that money for his $4 trillion budget. And
what steps could he take to prevent even *more* fraud
under ObamaCare?
What the heck do you think this current struggle is about, if it isn't
to stop the bilking as it creates a sustainable pool in which no one
is denied health care???
So your argument is... what? That even though fraud is
rampant under the single-payer Medicare system, all that
will magically stop under single-payer ObamaCare?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
"Fraud" is pervasive throughout ALL enterprise!!! It is addressed,
by our system of justice, when it is discovered. If fraud, to the
extent you contend, exists within Medicare, it is my contention that
it is even more prevalent in the medical industry as a whole.
The whole argument, by the teabaggers, birthers, etc, is a
FRAUD!!!. |
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The time now is Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:00 am
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