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Egyptian screening review...

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Ron Fowler...

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:09 am

Guest

Interesting. I didn't know the solo Monkees ever appeared on AB. Did the
group ever appear on the show? They were doing quite a few guest
appearances in 1969.

catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com...

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:45 am

Guest

Quote:

Interesting. I didn't know the solo Monkees ever appeared on AB. Did the
group ever appear on the show? They were doing quite a few guest
appearances in 1969.

There was an AB listing for the Monkees claimed in a book on the show,
performing "I'm a Believer" and "Steppin' Stone," but some said the
show never took place. I don't know about that myself. Growing up, I
watched AB every Saturday but can't remember if the Monkees ever made
an appearance. As long as the show was on the air and all the musical
guests that were on the show, it would be easy to overlook or forget
an artist who was on the show. The other musical guest on the show
featuring Davy was the Grass Roots, and seems like there was a fly
buzzing around them that they joked with Dick Clark belonged to Davy.
The other musical guest on the show featuring Mike was a Canadian
group (with a cute girl singer from England) named the Bells. Obscure
and not very well known today but they had a big hit at the time
called "Stay Awhile." An audio only video of Mike's appearance on
Bandstand is on youtube, complete with the interview -- or was.
Someone also did a video for the song by the Bells, which is still a
good song after all these years.

All of the Monkees's guest apearances in 1969 should've helped with
record sales. I missed their appearance on Joey Bishop's late night
talk show. It was said they performed both sides of their then-single,
"Someday Man" and "Listen to the Band," which would've made that one
of the rare promotions of the recordings they had out at the time.
When they appeared on the Tonight show, they performed "Daydream
Beleiver" and "Goin' Down," which I remember Johnny Carson mentioning
as being another track from their then-new album, "The Monkees
Greatest Hits." Which of course wasn't on the album at all. They
performed "Nine Times Blue" on the Johnny Cash show, which was never
released originally but was also very much the rarity as they
performed the song live with Micky and Davy providing harmony vocals.
Of course, Mike did all of his own harmonies on his own studio
recording of the song, which wasn't bad but I always wished the
Monkees would've used each other's voices on their recordings for the
harmonies. Their voices sounded good together and doing the harmonies
themselves or using other vocalists outside of the group wasn't what
they should've been doing as a group. Operating as solo artists but
releasing the recordings as a group was something I don't think no
other group had done at the time or has since.

Ron Fowler...

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:47 am

Guest

I agree. The sound of the guys voices together was better than Michael
overdubbing his own harmonies. That was great version of "Nine Times
Blue" with just the three voices and Mike's guitar. Tht should've been
on the album that was out then. I've never seen any footage of the
Monkees - together or individually - on AB, and I've got a lot of stuff
- Cash, Glen Campbell Show, Laugh In, but regretfully not the Joey
Bishop show. I wouldn't have thought it necessary for them to do AB in
66/67/68, because they had their own show. If people wanted to see the
Monkees on tv, they knew where to turn, and it wasn't a hit and miss
thing. Rick Nelson never did Bandstand, either, and that's why - if
people wanted to see him, they could see him on the family show every
week. Ozzie didn't want Ricky overexposed, either. I don't think he even
did the Ed Sullivan show until "Ozzie and Harriet" had gone off the air.

http://community.webtv.net/lonelysummer/RONFOWLERSLONELY

catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com...

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:57 am

Guest

Quote:

I agree. The sound of the guys voices together was better than Michael
overdubbing his own harmonies. That was �great version of "Nine Times
Blue" with just the three voices and Mike's guitar. Tht should've been
on the album that was out then.

I think that "Nine Times Blue" was considered for inclusion on several
of their albums, yet it was always passed over in favor of other
tracks. Since the performance on the Cash show was a live performance
and not a studio recording, and which also was owned by ABC or Johnny
or the studio that produced his show, it wouldn't have been available
for possible inclusion as an album track, unless Mike, Davy and Micky
went into the studio and recorded a similar version. However, given
each didn't want the others involved on their own individual tracks
most of the time, even going so far as to include backing vocals, a
remake of NTB with Davy and Micky on backing vocals seemed unlikely.

Quote:

I've never seen any footage of the Monkees - together or individually - on AB, and I've got a lot >of stuff - Cash, Glen Campbell Show, Laugh In, but regretfully not the Joey
Bishop show. I wouldn't have thought it necessary for them to do AB in
66/67/68, because they had their own show. If people wanted to see the
Monkees on tv, they knew where to turn, and it wasn't a hit and miss
thing. Rick Nelson never did Bandstand, either, and that's why - if
people wanted to see him, they could see him on the family show every
week. Ozzie didn't want Ricky overexposed, either. I don't think he even
did the Ed Sullivan show until "Ozzie and Harriet" had gone off the air.

I watched some of the "Laugh In" stuff on youtube and was a little
startled to see Mike was bearded. I remember watching their appearance
on "Laugh In" yet didn't remember him being bearded. They made a good
enough impression on George Schlatter that he considered making them
regulars for the show. That might've helped with promoting their
recordings.

For all the naysayers who say the Monkees never appeared on AB, Davy
made a reference one time in an interview about the group appearing on
the show, even though they had their own show and didn't really need
an appearance on AB to help promote their records. But, I think he
said it was done out of respect for the show and that it was a honor
because of so many other artists and bands having appeared on the show
to promote their records. One would've thought they would've made the
"Ed Sullivan Show" for the same reasons, but I guess they were never
considered for the Sullivan show.

Ron Fowler...

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:55 am

Guest

It's surprising they didn't do the Sullivan show after their series was
cancelled. The Monkees were still popular enough in 69 to have been on
the show. Would've been a good chance to preview what they were doing on
the road, with Sam and the Goodtimers. I'm surprised Mike didn't return
to the Johnny Cash show when he had the First National Band. That
would've been a natural. John liked to have a variety of music artists
on his show, rock 'n' roll, country, soul, so the FNB would've fit right
in, with their mix of country and rock.

catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com...

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:27 am

Guest

Quote:

Mike didn't do a lot of tv variety shows to promote his music, which
was odd, as that would've been of some help in the selling of his
recordings. How much of a help, I'm not sure. I think you could still
do the wrong tv show and it would do nothing for your musical career
(e.g., Davy on the "New Danny Thomas Show) but I wonder if Nez was
resistant to appear on tv to promote his music in much the same way he
was resistant to touring for the same purpose? Some fans put great
stock in a performer touring, claiming the tours help with the sales
in the stores. But, I know that some of the acts I've liked over the
years that toured at one time on a regular basis had sluggish sales
just the same.

I'm not sure who booked the acts that appeared on the Sullivan show,
probably not old Stoneface himself, but an appearance on Sullivan's
show could only have helped the Monkees. As for Sam and the
Goodtimers, they backed the Monkees on the Carson show but I don't
remember their musical backing for "Daydream Believer" and "Goin'
Down" being all that much different from the studio recordings, though
can't recall the piano being played on "Daydream Believer." I do
recall that only Davy and Micky had mikes while Mike played the white
Gibson guitar that was shown in his photographs for "The Monkees
Present." Some, such as Rolling Stain, questioned in concert reviews
on the Monkees as to whether Mike's guitar was plugged in during those
concerts. His guitar was plugged in on the Carson show as his playing
was quite similar to those heard on the studio recordings. But,
although he didn't have a mike, I remember him calling out, "All
together now!" during the third and final run of the chorus on
"Daydream Believer."

It's surprising Nez and the First National Band didn't do the Johnny
Cash show but I think there were musical differences behind the scenes
between Nez, Ware and London as Ware and London split from the group
in '71, leaving only Nez and Rhoades. Nez then formed the Second
National Band, which released only one album before collapsing. I
think the Cash show would've helped Nez out on the songs from the
"Nevada Fighter" album but with Ware and London gone by that point,
Nez probably would've been repeating his Monkees appearance on the
Cash show, accompanying himself on acoustic guitar but without any
backing vocals and possibly only Rhoades for musical support. His
songs sounded good either way but I thought they sounded best when
played by a four or five (or possibly six) piece band.

Ron Fowler...

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:38 am

Guest

Sometimes it's hard to remember the First National Band was together for
barely a year. They recorded those three albums in quick succession.
John Ware played with Nez later in the 70's (he's on "Live at the
Palais"), and of course Red continued to play on many of Mike's
projects, but I'm not aware of London ever playing with him again.

catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com...

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:53 pm

Guest

Quote:

London was working or retired as a journalist at the time of his
death, and I think I read on his obit that he left the music biz not
long after his departure from the FNB. I'm not sure as to how many
"Nevada Fighter" tracks London and Ware are on, since Nez finished the
album with the studio session players. Andrew's book shows some 1970
dates for some of the NF tracks and shows Ware and London on those
tracks, but it's not clear as to whether the final album track line-
ups are the same takes or alternate takes. I'm inclined to think the
finished product are remakes rather than the versions recorded with
Ware and London. It's kind of curious that both Ware and London were
members of Linda Ronstadt's backing band when Ware approached Nez with
the idea of forming a group. I always thought it more likely that
since Nez wanted out of the Monkees by that time, that he approached
Ware and his old buddy London with the idea of forming a group. As for
London's professional relationship with Nez, it does seem strange that
the two never played together again after the FNB even though London
was never far outside Nez's circle during the Monkees, contributing
the occasional bass. Friendship wise? It may be a case of the two
having simply drifted apart, owing to John's interest and new career
as a journalist. He appeared on the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's album
that had their hits "Mr. Bojangles," "House at Pooh Corner" and "Some
of Shelly's Blues," as well as their version of "Propinquity," but
there was no mention as to which songs on the album that he played
on.

I'm not sure if that was his final appearance as a musician because
there was a single by the "First National Band" that appeared on
Monument Records at about the same time that "Mama Rocker" appeared by
the Second National Band. That song was called "The Trip Down" but
don't know if the group included London and Ware. From what I've
learned over the years, most group names are either copyrighted or
incorporated by someone within the band or connected to the band to
prevent others from using the name. The split of Nez's FNB wasn't even
a year old when the Monument single appeared, and if neither Ware or
London was involved with that group, it seemed a rather bizarre and
brazen attempt by other musicians to start using the name. If it was
an attempt to capitalize off of Nez's fame, it didn't work. As far as
I can remember, the single bombed in the charts.

Ron Fowler...

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:58 am

Guest

I never even knew of a Nez-less First National Band until it was
mentioned here a few months ago. Have you heard the record? I'd be
interested, at least as a curiosity.

catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com...

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:35 am

Guest

Quote:

I never even knew of a Nez-less First National Band until it was
mentioned here a few months ago. Have you heard the record? I'd be
interested, at least as a curiosity.

I remember hearing it played a few times on the radio back in '72, but
the airplay was so sporadic that I don't recall its melody. I think
what airplay it did get was probably based on the idea that it was
Nez's band, even though Nez wasn't in the group. And the fact the band
was signed to a label other than RCA should've made the DJs somewhat
suspicious that it wasn't the Nez-led group.

Ron Fowler...

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:56 am

Guest

You're such a wealth of Monkee related info, catgod. you probably know
as much as Andrew. I used to think I knew a lot about the Monkees until
I came here! First National Band without Nez would be like Stone Ponies
without Linda Ronstadt, or Stone Canyon Band without Rick Nelson.

catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com...

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:40 pm

Guest

Quote:

Thanks, Ron. I really don't know very much, just remember a lot of the
bits and pieces. Back in the late 70s, I could've bought the FNB
single on Monument from a mail order company for under two bucks! I
don't know why I didn't as these days, it's pretty hard for me to look
through the dealer pages of Goldmine magazine looking for the record
-- my eyes aren't what they used to be. I haven't looked at ebay as a
possible source for the record but as I don't think that band was
connected to Nez in any way, I still don't think the record would be
much worth over what it cost in the 70s.

Funny thing about group names: in the 70s, the management for Dawn
sued other groups using the name Dawn in their group, including one
group that actually existed before Dawn came along in 1970 with
"Candida." That other group was called Blue Dawn and I'm not sure why
Dawn's management had a problem with them. That group wasn't trying to
be the Tony Orlando-led group but as I recall, Dawn's management took
Blue Dawn to court to prevent them from using the Dawn name in their
name, even though they existed first. I never did hear how that case
turned out.

As for the other FNB, assuming it wasn't Ware and London keeping the
name and replacing Nez and Rhoades with other musicians, I still
wonder to this day if Nez knew about that group? Nez has always been
one very smart person when it comes to the business side of the music
industry, and I think he would've known to incorporate the First
National Band name, so that no one else could come along and use it.
Of course, maybe the name was incorporated by Ware or London (in a
move similar to that of a member of the Lovin' Spoonful) or by the
group's manager. Either scenario would've allowed another FNB to be
put together without approval from Nez, though I couldn't see Nez
letting someone else own the name.

Ron Fowler...

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:36 am

Guest

Well you know a lot more than I do, catgod. Meow!

brilton...

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:15 pm

Guest

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but I have a picture in a
book by Tommy Boyce, and it's captioned:

"A crazy Saturday morning get-together on Dick Clark's TV show, American
Bandstand. Tommy and Bobby make a surprise guest appearance on a
tricycle in the middle of a song being sung by Paul Revere & The Raiders
and one Monkee. From left to right... Paul Revere Mark Lindsay, Fred
Weller, Davey Jones (the one Monkee) and Keith Allison."

Ron Fowler...

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:42 am

Guest

I think the caption is a mistake. That picture is also in the book
Monkeemania, and it's from Happening.

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