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| Chief Wild Eagle... |
 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:39 pm |
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I've heard two conflicting stories regarding the drums on the '87
remix of " Daydream Believer":
-- the drumming was Micky's original, just mixed up high
or
--the drumming was re-recorded by someone for this release (not
necessarily related to the Monkees.)
Anyone know which is true? |
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| catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:39 pm |
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Quote: I've heard two conflicting stories regarding the drums on the '87
remix of " Daydream Believer":
-- the drumming was Micky's original, just mixed up high
or
--the drumming was re-recorded by someone for this release (not
necessarily related to the Monkees.)
Anyone know which is true?
The latter. Micky did not play the drums on the original take of
"Daydream Believer." Eddie Hoh was the drummer on the original
version. I'm not sure if the drums remix was handled by an actual
drummer or by someone who programmed a synthesizer or drum sequencer. |
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| Ron Fowler... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:29 am |
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The drums on the remix don't sound like the drums on the original, but
my ears cannot distinguish if it's a drum machine or a real drummer.
Sounds almost too good to be a machine, but I've been fooled before. |
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| lenono68 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:50 pm |
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On Nov 2, 1:29 am, lonelysum... at (no spam) webtv.net (Ron Fowler) wrote:
Quote: The drums on the remix don't sound like the drums on the original, but
my ears cannot distinguish if it's a drum machine or a real drummer.
Sounds almost too good to be a machine, but I've been fooled before.
I heard somewhere that Phil Collins is on drums for the remix. |
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| Ron Fowler... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:06 am |
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Never heard that. For that matter, never heard of any Phil
Collins/Monkees connection. However, if you look really close, you can
see him in the audience in the concert climax of "A Hard Days Night". |
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| lenono68 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:13 am |
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On Nov 20, 3:06 am, lonelysum... at (no spam) webtv.net (Ron Fowler) wrote:
Quote: Never heard that. For that matter, never heard of any Phil
Collins/Monkees connection. However, if you look really close, you can
see him in the audience in the concert climax of "A Hard Days Night".
I think I have a Genesis documentary where they single him out in the
audience in that scene. He also played on a couple tracks on George
Harrison's All Things Must Pass album. |
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| Chief Wild Eagle... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:24 pm |
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I never heard that either.
But why would Arista re-record the drum track? Could it be since there
were only four-tracks available for recording in the '60 s they were
unable to isolate the drum track and mix it higher? Maybe they felt
the new mix needed a more modern sound?
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:50:04 -0800 (PST),
"lenono68 at (no spam) gmail.com"lenono68 at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Nov 2, 1:29 am, lonelysum... at (no spam) webtv.net (Ron Fowler) wrote:
The drums on the remix don't sound like the drums on the original, but
my ears cannot distinguish if it's a drum machine or a real drummer.
Sounds almost too good to be a machine, but I've been fooled before.
I heard somewhere that Phil Collins is on drums for the remix. |
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| catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:02 pm |
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Quote: But why would Arista re-record the drum track? Could it be since there
were only four-tracks available for recording in the '60 s they were
unable to isolate the drum track and mix it higher? Maybe they felt
the new mix needed a more modern sound?
Arista reissued "Daydream Believer" as a single after Davy threw a
temper tantrum over Arista's plans to issue "Anywhere, Anytime,
Anyplace" as the follow up single to "That Was Then, This Is Now."
Davy had threatened to quit the group if the song cowritten by Bobby
Hart was released as a single. As with TWTTIN, Davy wasn't on the
other two (then) new songs, so if it had been a hit, his share of the
royalties would've been for a quarter share for the flip side.
The Arista executive who reissued "Daydream Believer" didn't want to
be the one responsible for breaking up the Monkees and issued DB to
placate the mercurial Jones. I think the executive realized it would
be very tough for Arista to make DB a hit all over again, so they
added the new drum track to give it a more modern sound. I think they
might have done better if they had simply remixed and remastered the
original to give it a more modern and fresher sound. As it was, I
think Davy's problems with Arista cost the group a second hit in AAA.
The song was being played heavily on the radio, so the public interest
was there and had a single been available, it might've kept the
momentum going. Davy had no one to blame but himself for his refusal
to take part on the 1985-86 recordings. Clive Davis's Arista might
have built the Monkees into a long term recording act, with or without
certain members. Personally, I think Mike would definitely have been
on board as his ideas about the Monkees was for the group to be
looking forward and doing new things, rather than looking back on
their past achievements. I also think it possible that he would've
butted heads with Davis recording songs he didn't like. But, Arista
could definitely have re-established the Monkees as a (then) current
act much easier than what Rhino could've done at the time but Davy
wrecked their chances with his behavior. |
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| Ron Fowler... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:07 am |
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I seriously doubt Nez would've wanted to record an album with the
Monkees circa 1986. This was the period where he was saying "audio only
records are obsolete". If Mike was involved, there would've had to have
been a video component involved. And I don't mean "let's make a video to
sell the record". Mike particularly disliked using video strictly as a
medium to sell records, and was very disappointed that the industry
couldn't see the potentail for true creativity in video. Phil Collins
hosted a special on the making of 'A Hard Days Night", and they circled
his face in the theater crowd. I always thought he seemed like a nice
bloke.
http://community.webtv.net/lonelysummer/RONFOWLERSLONELY |
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| catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:05 pm |
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Quote: I seriously doubt Nez would've wanted to record an album with the
Monkees circa 1986. This was the period where he was saying "audio only
records are obsolete". If Mike was involved, there would've had to have
been a video component involved. And I don't mean "let's make a video to
sell the record". Mike particularly disliked using video strictly as a
medium to sell records, and was very disappointed that the industry
couldn't see the potentail for true creativity in video. �Phil Collins
hosted a special on the making of 'A Hard Days Night", and they circled
his face in the theater crowd. I always thought he seemed like a nice
bloke.
Mike said in an interview with the USA Today during the '96-'97
Monkees reunion that he wasn't opposed to the reunions as long as the
Monkees were doing something new and not resting on their laurels.
There are only so many avenues the Monkees could take when it came to
doing something new: make a new album, another movie, another TV
series, Broadway (getting Davy's hopes up), et al. He regarded playing
their greatest hits in concert as not being something he wanted to do.
And unfortunately, the Monkees live in concert was what most reunions
consisted of the group doing.
As for using video as a medium strictly for selling records, well, Nez
was as guilty as any music executive when it came to making music
videos for the MTV generation. Recall "All Night Long" by Lionel
Richie, directed by Bob Rafelson, and "Love's Been a Little Bit Hard
On Me" by Juice Newton and many others. Whatever vision he had for
music videos, he should've been pointing the way for the rest of the
music industry as to what they could've been doing. Unfortunately, his
"audio records only are obsolete" comment was off the mark by a wide
degree at the time. It might be a more accurate reflection now, though
just like Mark Twain, I think the rumors of the death of an audio
record (in cd form or whatever form) tends to be greatly exaggerated.
Nez was and is a visionary but that didn't mean he couldn't be off the
mark occasionally or protest too much. |
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| Ron Fowler... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:36 am |
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Well, obviously Mike backpedaled a bit on his "audio only records are
obsolete" comment, because he put some of the songs from his video
projects on "The Newer Stuff", and went on to record "tropical" and "the
garden". |
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| catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:52 am |
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Quote: Well, obviously Mike backpedaled a bit on his "audio only records are
obsolete" comment, because he put some of the songs from his video
projects on "The Newer Stuff", and went on to record "tropical" and "the
garden".
The majority of the new songs on "The Newer Stuff" was originally
intended for the Nez's never made movie, "Videoranch," though "I'll
Remember You" first showed up on "Television Parts." Had Nez kept the
Pacific Arts record label going at the time or made an arrangement
with a record company to release his recordings, "I'll Remember You"
might well have been a hit. People were asking for the song in the
stores and asking deejays to play it but there was no single for the
deejays to play and no singles of the song in the stores to buy. Must
say I loved all of the then-new songs on "The Newer Stuff" (even the
totally off the wall "Tahitian Condo," which took some time for me to
like) and wished the album had consisted of all previously unreleased
recordings, instead of collecting the older songs from the "Infinite
Rider" and "Photon Wing" albums. It would've been interesting to have
seen how the "Videoranch" songs were done for the movie, especially
"Dreamer," which for me, is still the most stunning song ever written
by Nez. I'm one Nez fan who is glad he backpedaled and one who
continues to hope he still hasn't written off audio only recordings.
"Rays," "January" and "Helen's Eternal Birthday" all display he is
capable of still making great music. |
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| catgod29 at (no spam) home_on_the_range.com... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:12 pm |
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Quote: Hmm...I don't recognize the titles "Tahitian Condo" and "Dreamer". I
have the vinyl "Newer Stuff", were these cd only bonus tracks? I
would've rather had more new songs on side 2 than the retreads from
Photon and Infinite Rider. I remember a friend commenting on "Eldorado
to the Moon" when Television Parts aired. In fact, most of the comments
I heard from friends were "thumbs up on the musical segments, thumbs
down on the comedy".
Yes, both songs were available on the CD and "Dreamer" was also
available on cassette. Besides "El Dorado," the other Bill Martin
song, the great "Chow Mein and Bowling" was on the CD, and I believe
the cassette as well. I have the album on all three formats but
haven't looked at or listened to the cassette in quite a while. Most
of Nez's music videos on TP were retreads from the "Photon Wing" and
"Infinite Rider" albums. The comedy on the program was an acquired
taste, sometimes funny, sometimes not so funny, sometimes what the
hell was that all about? A nice touch on the first episode was Mike
telling Davy, Micky and Peter good night. And of course, Micky
directed some of the sketches, but which sketches, I don't know. Nez's
TV series was like "Saturday Night Live" in that it wasn't ready for
prime time. It also had the misfortune to be on Friday, the night
considered by many in television to be the graveyard for series on the
way to being cancelled. The series might've done better had it
followed SNL; the comedy might've worked better with the SNL audience
than the general prime time audience. |
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| Ron Fowler... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:31 pm |
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Hmm...I don't recognize the titles "Tahitian Condo" and "Dreamer". I
have the vinyl "Newer Stuff", were these cd only bonus tracks? I
would've rather had more new songs on side 2 than the retreads from
Photon and Infinite Rider. I remember a friend commenting on "Eldorado
to the Moon" when Television Parts aired. In fact, most of the comments
I heard from friends were "thumbs up on the musical segments, thumbs
down on the comedy". |
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| Ron Fowler... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:48 am |
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Oh yes, Chow Mein and Bowling, one of my favorites! Yep, Nesmith's
comedy is an acquired taste. The same could be said of the 97 Monkees tv
special. I love it, but I seem to be in the minority. "Dancing in the
dark...CRASH!" "You must remember this.........?????"
http://community.webtv.net/lonelysummer/RONFOWLERSLONELY |
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