I just disagree with many of you ....there are so many other drummers
that I've seen  (may not know their names) out in Chicago or at a
festival, that never get mentioned. Maybe because of family or work
obligations..

The drummers of today for the most part; just ride the cymbal, and
don't really pay any attention to the song, until it's over, SAD.

Brilliant observation. You hit the nail squarely. Some of these
drummers pound like if they are trying to kill something. Watch Rodger
Malinowski with Full Circle and take notice for a few good lessons. He
plays the perfect dance beat and he compliments every part of the
song. Us dancers love that Chicago beat. When it comes to polka music
Chicago dance tempo has it all over the rest. I'm going to hear from
the ranks for that but talk to the people and they will tell you the
same thing.
-Howard Henry

This thread is amazing to me...especially when most are dissecting the
individual styles of Polish polkas. Chicago, Push, Eastern, etc.

So, unless you are a "melody" drummer, you are not a good drummer or
vice-versa?

1. The term "melody" drummer has been thrown around a lot -- mainly by
one poster who likes a certain way for a band to play. I would change
that description to an "ensemble player" versus a drummer who just
"rides along." Example, hitting the snare or other drums along with
some Horn player's riffs that are in an arrangement. All of you should
really listen to old "Magitones" recordings. Whoever that drummer was
in that band was truly an ensemble player. His Kick drum was on every
bass note and he certainly enhanced the horn parts with snare, tom and
cymbal embellishments -- on EVERY song they recorded. .

2. So, unless you are an ensemble player, you suck? I would highly
disagree. The most important role that any drummer has in a band is to
keep a straight beat/tempo. I would take a drummer who isn't flashy
and consistently keeps the same tempo any day of the week. Many
drummers just "show-boat" to get in as many pulls, licks, rolls in a
song as they can as if it is some sort of competition. Many (not all)
of these drummers are not good enough to move their arms and legs fast
enough to keep up with what their mind wants to do and eventually,
slow down or speed up the tempo.

3. Also, a sign of great drummer is how versatile he is...not just a
good "polka" drummer, but one who can play many genres of music.
Example -- many "polka" drummers I have met have no clue what real
"ballroom swing" is all about -- They play "Rock Swing" , not "Jazz
Swing." They play a made up rumba beat for a cha-cha or the other way
around. They only know how to play 6/8 style ballads and not straight
4 ballads or 2 step ballads. The drummer for CCS certainly is well
rounded and uses "Latin influences" (Samba/Meringue) in many of their
recorded songs like "Marina" or "Quando."

What are my qualifications? I am also a drummer and actually performed
for many years in the 80's as part-time drummer for Blob's Park house
band and also as a drummer for a Top40 group I put together that
performed for a local catering house doing weddings/receptions.

Those were the days and one year, I actually made more money as a
drummer than as an accordionist. Work is work...and I still have my
Blue Mist Rogers "memory lock" kit with special order maple shells and
vintage Z cymbals.

Was I the greatest drummer in the world? Heck No, FAR FROM IT, but I
did keep a straight tempo.

It's not about individual styles, it's about individual talent.

MS

Again, it's not just about the drummer, and before you get your horses running,

BTW, what do you think these small(5-6 piece) bands are but ensembles if you want to play rhetoric of semantics? They're also, by many folks terms, small orchestras as well.

Yep -- that's why I used the term ensemble player..it is semantics.

What would you do if someone needed a melody/half-melody drummer and somehow they landed on your doorstep? Would you insist on playing what you wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to play?

--
Jim-

____________________________________________

Yup. Yup.  And YUP!

All good players, for sure. Malinowski...what a pro.

Has anyone ulled out a recording of Bud Hundenski,
or Joe Oberaitis with Chick Midzielski on drums? Wow.

_____________________________________________

Again, it's not just about the drummer, and before you get your horses
running,

Hey -- I'm all for discussions and know how to get a horse to stop
runnin' ! Woah... ::

BTW, what do you think these small(5-6 piece) bands are but ensembles if
you want to play rhetoric of semantics? They're also, by many folks terms,
small orchestras as well.

Yep -- that's why I used the term ensemble player..it is semantics.


What would you do if someone needed a melody/half-melody drummer and
somehow they landed on your doorstep? Would you insist on playing what you
wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to play?

--
Jim-

Jim, this last sentence really points out another aspect that hasn't
been addressed in this thread which is mainly asking who are the best
drummers. How adaptable is the drummer (musician)?? I venture to guess
that most drummers in any style of polka are pretty much locked in to
that one particular style of playing. I have had to deal with that
over the years whenever I was looking for a new drummer in my band.
The sign of a "great" drummer would be a person that could float in
and out of many "polka" styles or many other genre styles for that
matter. Let's see if anyone can name a past polka drummer who played
"Slovenian", "Polish" and "German" styles and played each of those
styles correctly without showing any other ethnic influences.

I'm going to use John Gora's drummer as an example. Sorry, I don't
know his name. JG played many "Polish" polkas at the 2008 Polish
Festival in Baltimore and then he turned around and played a "German"
polka called "Annaliese" (dedicated to me) -- if I closed my eyes,
that particular polka could rival any Oktoberfest band's arrangement
and sound. There wasn't a hint of "Polish Style" in that song.

Let's also give credit to the drummer of Squeezebox -- that's a band
(like mine) that can float in and out of styles and our drummers know
the difference.

Getting back to your question -- "Would you insist on playing what you
wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to
play?" I would say the drummer has to play what the bandleader (or
band) wants him to play or what style the band performs. That's the
way it is anyway in any genre. You can't have a funk drummer who will
only play funk kicks in a jazz band. This same rule should apply to
any musician in any band.

So, your love of "Chicago- Melody Drumming" that was performed by many
bands is just another sub-genre of polka. Is it the best polka style?
That's a matter of taste/preference. Were those drummers the best
polka drummers...maybe in Chicago at that time...

Personally, I would like to hear more "ensemble" playing in most
current "Polish" polka bands, instead of that damn rim-shot "ping"
every 2 bars. Oops -- I'm running for cover now...

MS

I'm going to use John Gora's drummer as an example. Sorry, I don't
know his name. JG played many "Polish" polkas at the 2008 Polish
Festival in Baltimore and then he turned around and played a "German"
polka called "Annaliese" (dedicated to me) -- if I closed my eyes,
that particular polka could rival any Oktoberfest band's arrangement
and sound. There wasn't a hint of "Polish Style" in that song.

Let's also give credit to the drummer of Squeezebox -- that's a band
(like mine) that can float in and out of styles and our drummers know
the difference.

Just contributing some names you were missing:

I'm going to use John Gora's drummer as an example. Sorry, I don't
know his name. JG played many "Polish" polkas at the 2008 Polish
Festival in Baltimore and then he turned around and played a "German"
polka called "Annaliese" (dedicated to me) -- if I closed my eyes,
that particular polka could rival any Oktoberfest band's arrangement
and sound. There wasn't a hint of "Polish Style" in that song.

The drummer's name is Johnny Winiarz with John Gora's band.  Definitely one
of the finest all around (plays all styles) drummers I have ever been
fortunate enough to perform with.  The range of his ability would blow your
mind....  and he does them all well.  Whether it's a polka, a tango, a
waltz, a rock tune, a swing tune, disco polo, reggae, etc...  this guy has
the right stuff for whatever style of music he's playing.



Let's also give credit to the drummer of Squeezebox -- that's a band
(like mine) that can float in and out of styles and our drummers know
the difference.

Dave Burner, (The drummer for Squeezebox), is also a very fine drummer, who
has a certain smoothness to his drumming that makes it extremely easy to
"line up" with, while never overtaking the melody instruments, but doing his
fills at the "right spots".

--
Ted Lange
SQUEEZEBOXwww.squeezeboxband.com

Again, it's not just about the drummer, and before you get your horses
running,

Hey -- I'm all for discussions and know how to get a horse to stop
runnin' ! Woah... ::

BTW, what do you think these small(5-6 piece) bands are but ensembles if
you want to play rhetoric of semantics? They're also, by many folks terms,
small orchestras as well.

Yep -- that's why I used the term ensemble player..it is semantics.


What would you do if someone needed a melody/half-melody drummer and
somehow they landed on your doorstep? Would you insist on playing what you
wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to play?

--
Jim-

Jim, this last sentence really points out another aspect that hasn't
been addressed in this thread which is mainly asking who are the best
drummers. How adaptable is the drummer (musician)?? I venture to guess
that most drummers in any style of polka are pretty much locked in to
that one particular style of playing. I have had to deal with that
over the years whenever I was looking for a new drummer in my band.
The sign of a "great" drummer would be a person that could float in
and out of many "polka" styles or many other genre styles for that
matter. Let's see if anyone can name a past polka drummer who played
"Slovenian", "Polish" and "German" styles and played each of those
styles correctly without showing any other ethnic influences.

I'm going to use John Gora's drummer as an example. Sorry, I don't
know his name. JG played many "Polish" polkas at the 2008 Polish
Festival in Baltimore and then he turned around and played a "German"
polka called "Annaliese" (dedicated to me) -- if I closed my eyes,
that particular polka could rival any Oktoberfest band's arrangement
and sound. There wasn't a hint of "Polish Style" in that song.

Let's also give credit to the drummer of Squeezebox -- that's a band
(like mine) that can float in and out of styles and our drummers know
the difference.

Getting back to your question -- "Would you insist on playing what you
wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to
play?" I would say the drummer has to play what the bandleader (or
band) wants him to play or what style the band performs. That's the
way it is anyway in any genre. You can't have a funk drummer who will
only play funk kicks in a jazz band. This same rule should apply to
any musician in any band.

So, your love of "Chicago- Melody Drumming" that was performed by many
bands is just another sub-genre of polka. Is it the best polka style?
That's a matter of taste/preference. Were those drummers the best
polka drummers...maybe in Chicago at that time...

Personally, I would like to hear more "ensemble" playing in most
current "Polish" polka bands, instead of that damn rim-shot "ping"
every 2 bars. Oops -- I'm running for cover now...

MS

In article <83a9925f-7ad4-4e9f-b475-de00fe5b6... at (no spam) o36g2000vbl.googlegroups..com>,
 Mike Surratt <mikzca... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:







Again, it's not just about the drummer, and before you get your horses
running,

Hey -- I'm all for discussions and know how to get a horse to stop
runnin' ! Woah... ::

BTW, what do you think these small(5-6 piece) bands are but ensembles if
you want to play rhetoric of semantics? They're also, by many folks terms,
small orchestras as well.

Yep -- that's why I used the term ensemble player..it is semantics.

What would you do if someone needed a melody/half-melody drummer and
somehow they landed on your doorstep? Would you insist on playing what you
wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to play?

--
Jim-

Jim, this last sentence really points out another aspect that hasn't
been addressed in this thread which is mainly asking who are the best
drummers. How adaptable is the drummer (musician)?? I venture to guess
that most drummers in any style of polka are pretty much locked in to
that one particular style of playing. I have had to deal with that
over the years whenever I was looking for a new drummer in my band.
The sign of a "great" drummer would be a person that could float in
and out of many "polka" styles or many other genre styles for that
matter. Let's see if anyone can name a past polka drummer who played
"Slovenian", "Polish" and "German" styles and played each of those
styles correctly without showing any other ethnic influences.

I'm going to use John Gora's drummer as an example. Sorry, I don't
know his name. JG played many "Polish" polkas at the 2008 Polish
Festival in Baltimore and then he turned around and played a "German"
polka called "Annaliese" (dedicated to me) -- if I closed my eyes,
that particular polka could rival any Oktoberfest band's arrangement
and sound. There wasn't a hint of "Polish Style" in that song.

Let's also give credit to the drummer of Squeezebox -- that's a band
(like mine) that can float in and out of styles and our drummers know
the difference.

Getting back to your question -- "Would you insist on playing what you
wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to
play?" I would say the drummer has to play what the bandleader (or
band) wants him to play or what style the band performs. That's the
way it is anyway in any genre. You can't have a funk drummer who will
only play funk kicks in a jazz band. This same rule should apply to
any musician in any band.

So, your love of "Chicago- Melody Drumming" that was performed by many
bands is just another sub-genre of polka. Is it the best polka style?
That's a matter of taste/preference. Were those drummers the best
polka drummers...maybe in Chicago at that time...

Personally, I would like to hear more "ensemble" playing in most
current "Polish" polka bands, instead of that damn rim-shot "ping"
every 2 bars. Oops -- I'm running for cover now...

MS

Out in the van the other day, I had the iPod hooked up and listening to a
shuffle of what's on there(Lots of Polkas too!) and a Souza March came on..
Funny thing was even that march had it's version of "melody drumming" only with
several people. The snare was echoing, mimicing, matching the rhythem of the
melody while the bass drum and cymbals were doing what they're supposed to as
well! It was impossible to notice. Considering that the Polka has been said to
have originated in the mountains with the Gorale, perhaps there's some
connection.

--
Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 25, 9:46 am, Jim <j... at (no spam) NOSpaMync.net> wrote:
In article
83a9925f-7ad4-4e9f-b475-de00fe5b6... at (no spam) o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
 Mike Surratt <mikzca... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:







Again, it's not just about the drummer, and before you get your horses
running,

Hey -- I'm all for discussions and know how to get a horse to stop
runnin' ! Woah... ::

BTW, what do you think these small(5-6 piece) bands are but ensembles
if
you want to play rhetoric of semantics? They're also, by many folks
terms,
small orchestras as well.

Yep -- that's why I used the term ensemble player..it is semantics.

What would you do if someone needed a melody/half-melody drummer and
somehow they landed on your doorstep? Would you insist on playing what
you
wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to play?

--
Jim-

Jim, this last sentence really points out another aspect that hasn't
been addressed in this thread which is mainly asking who are the best
drummers. How adaptable is the drummer (musician)?? I venture to guess
that most drummers in any style of polka are pretty much locked in to
that one particular style of playing. I have had to deal with that
over the years whenever I was looking for a new drummer in my band.
The sign of a "great" drummer would be a person that could float in
and out of many "polka" styles or many other genre styles for that
matter. Let's see if anyone can name a past polka drummer who played
"Slovenian", "Polish" and "German" styles and played each of those
styles correctly without showing any other ethnic influences.

I'm going to use John Gora's drummer as an example. Sorry, I don't
know his name. JG played many "Polish" polkas at the 2008 Polish
Festival in Baltimore and then he turned around and played a "German"
polka called "Annaliese" (dedicated to me) -- if I closed my eyes,
that particular polka could rival any Oktoberfest band's arrangement
and sound. There wasn't a hint of "Polish Style" in that song.

Let's also give credit to the drummer of Squeezebox -- that's a band
(like mine) that can float in and out of styles and our drummers know
the difference.

Getting back to your question -- "Would you insist on playing what you
wanted to play or would you play what the bandleader asked you to
play?" I would say the drummer has to play what the bandleader (or
band) wants him to play or what style the band performs. That's the
way it is anyway in any genre. You can't have a funk drummer who will
only play funk kicks in a jazz band. This same rule should apply to
any musician in any band.

So, your love of "Chicago- Melody Drumming" that was performed by many
bands is just another sub-genre of polka. Is it the best polka style?
That's a matter of taste/preference. Were those drummers the best
polka drummers...maybe in Chicago at that time...

Personally, I would like to hear more "ensemble" playing in most
current "Polish" polka bands, instead of that damn rim-shot "ping"
every 2 bars. Oops -- I'm running for cover now...

MS

Out in the van the other day, I had the iPod hooked up and listening to a
shuffle of what's on there(Lots of Polkas too!) and a Souza March came on.
Funny thing was even that march had it's version of "melody drumming" only
with
several people. The snare was echoing, mimicing, matching the rhythem of
the
melody while the bass drum and cymbals were doing what they're supposed to
as
well! It was impossible to notice. Considering that the Polka has been said
to
have originated in the mountains with the Gorale, perhaps there's some
connection.

--
Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Jim,

Your comment about those march-style drummers playing off the melody
is well-taken. For one thing, they are playing off sheet music so at
least the basic outline can be figured out and written down. I find it
too much trouble to write a drum part (and too restrictive) but find
it very useful to have a copy of the trumpet part. The drummer often
phrases with the brass and the trumpet part gives me a way to keep
track of where I am and also a place to write notes to myself about
what to play. A written part is also a great way to plan a global
approach to a tune. You really need to worry about more than what is
happening in the current bar. What does the next phrase bring? How can
I transition to it? How can I add variety? Perhaps there is a place
where a style change is in order (honky to push is my most common).
Where is the climax of the song? Is there more than one climax? What
should I do for the climax? Where does the vocal start so I know to be
quieter? Where does the vocal end so I can hit it? It is important to
look at each individual bar but also at each phrase and also at the
song as a whole. Now, the drawbacks of using music with written
notations are the (1) songs tend to sound the same each time they are
played (is this good or bad?); (2) the drummer's playing is
mechanically stilted since he/she has his/her neck craned to one side
to read the music and can not move around the kit as easily; (3)
constantly turning the neck (usually to the left for right handed
drummers) causes spinal stenosis. I know because I have it, both
because of reading music and also carrying a heavy camera (I
illustrate books about Colorado). It did take 55 years of playing for
it to get this bad however. It narrows the spinal chord and can cause
dizziness and blurred vision in addition to plain old pain.

Jeeze, look what I started.

Anyway, just thought I'd share a nice video of my favorite pick for
Honky Style drummer... Eddie Blazonczyk drumming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU75pHaCvJs