Getting wind noise right?

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jason cooper

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 7:42 am

Guest

I was sent this way by the folks at rec.arts.movies.tech.
Hopefully somebody here can help me out...

I'm recording a documentary on BASE jumping. As part of that,
I'll be shooting a lot of first-person video of freefall from
objects. One of the most striking things about the experience, I
believe, is the dynamics of the wind noise as the jumper's speed
picks up -- yet I've never seen it accurately captured in a film.

I'll be shooting with a Panasonic NV-GS70 (since the forces on a
jumper necessitate a light camera) with an external mic. Wind
speed varies during a jump from 0 mph to ~120 mph. Above about
50 mph, I'm clearly not expecting to get anything but wind
noise.

My experience has been that naked mics give wind noise which has
more crackle and pop, and less whistle, than one hears. Is there
a modification or shield available, or one which I can make
myself, which will result in a more faithful reproduction of that
sound?

Thanks in advance for your time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
. . . Except when they don't,
Because sometimes they won't. - Dr. Seuss
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Cooper jcooper@acs.ucalgary.ca

Charles Tomaras

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 7:48 pm

Guest

"jason cooper" <jcooper@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:c78kml$g1u$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Quote:

Why not take a nice mic cardiod mic, with a foam screen inside of a full
zeppelin with both a flannel cover and a furry windsock. Take a jump with a
decent audio recorder and just record the sound which you can use in the
background for your real jumps.

WINZTON

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 pm

Guest

<< One of the most striking things about the experience, I believe, is the
dynamics of the wind noise as the jumper's speed picks up -- yet I've never
seen it accurately captured in a film. >>

You meant "heard", right?

Marty

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 11:06 pm

Guest

Unless you are actually interviewing someone during a jump, I think it's
the wind noise that conveys the experience, so why would you want to
filter it out?

To answer your question though, there are a number of high wind screens
you can use to cover your external (hand held?) microphone. They range
in price from $40.00 to several hundred.

Your choice of mic will also have an impact on how much wind noise you
pick up. Which mic will you be using?

Marty Atias
ATS Communications

jason cooper wrote:

Quote:

Wolf

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 11:08 pm

Guest

wind makes no noise till it hits something. what you hear jumping is the
air currents in your ear canals. plug your ears with cotton or felt and
its a lot quieter and you can talk to the guy next to you ( jumping).
I think omnis are less sensitive to air movements generally. so if you
want to create the windsounds a listener expects to hear matching the
jump try experimenting in a controlled windy area: a motorcycle. find
the object that makes a sound that is expected when air flows around
it... ( ahh creativity intrudes) not the sound your unique personal pair
of ear chanels makes during a jump...
let us know -- this is fun..
of course if this is an excuse to get college credit for basejumping -
go for it........ I took horsebackriding in college and it took me 20
years to feel embarrassed at wasting my time. ( I never made the olympic
team like my friend and neighbor did)
wolf

jason cooper wrote:

Quote:

--
NOTE I WAS ASSIGNED A NEW EMAIL ADDRESS:
wolfvid (replace this with the at sign) comcast.net

Balazs Rozgonyi

Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 7:58 am

Guest

From my aerodynamics studies as a glider pilot, I will expect that a
pressure microphone (e.g. a real omni, with no acustic openings behind
the capsule) would make the sound less disorted, as the air only hit
one side of the diaphragm, making no turbulences like in a pressure
gradient mic. However, this is only a theory.

good luck anyway Smile

Balazs Rozgonyi
R-Provideo Hungary
web.axelero.hu/rprobt

William Sarokin

Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 8:13 am

Guest

You're right. Omnis are much less susceptible to wind break up.
My guess for the jumper, either tape an omin lav (with a little windjammer)
in your helmet just in front of your ear, or make a fake head. Stuff a
windjammer protected omni inside a helmet. Strap the whole package so it's
secure, and jump with it (and don't forget to pull the rip-cord. You don't
want to record the splat).
Billy Sarokin

"Balazs Rozgonyi" <rprovideo@axelero.hu> wrote in message
news:6aaf7597.0405050558.4a4578c5@posting.google.com...

Quote:

Balazs Rozgonyi
R-Provideo Hungary
web.axelero.hu/rprobt

Balazs Rozgonyi

Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 12:39 pm

Guest

What recorder do you plan to use? it think it will be hard to find
too. There will be some high G's (acceleration forces) especially when
opening the parachute and at landing. You may want to use a solid
state recoder (however a Nagra IV could be good - My father's Nagra
fell out of an ambulance car doing 80mph on a highway - it was still
rolling when they picked it up, no visible damage Smile

)

Hey, maybe a reporter Nagra (ares-c or something) could do the trick !
hopefully the Swiss are still up to their high standard..

Balazs Rozgonyi
R-Provideo Hungary
web.axelero.hu/rprobt

jason cooper

Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 6:50 am

Guest

William Sarokin (bigmaho@verizon.net) wrote:
: You're right. Omnis are much less susceptible to wind break up.
: My guess for the jumper, either tape an omin lav (with a little windjammer)
: in your helmet just in front of your ear, or make a fake head.

Not sure if I was clear about this in my original post -- my
field is something more like theoretical physics and less like
film Smile

. Can you recommend a good omni lav? And would this
qualify as a "little windjammer"?

http://www.haly-tek.com/cat/micro-cat.html

(Got that tip on another newsgroup...)

If I need to, I can always mount a baffle of some suitable sort
(as somebody else recommended) on the helmet... Thank you all
for the replies, and for your continued tolerance Smile

.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
. . . Except when they don't,
Because sometimes they won't. - Dr. Seuss
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Cooper jcooper@acs.ucalgary.ca

jason cooper

Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:03 am

Guest

William Sarokin (bigmaho@verizon.net) wrote:
: My guess for the jumper, either tape an omin lav (with a little windjammer)
: in your helmet just in front of your ear, or make a fake head.

Another question -- could one use two lavs, one on either side of
the head, to get good reproduction of stereo effects? If so, how
difficult would this be for an amateur to rig?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
. . . Except when they don't,
Because sometimes they won't. - Dr. Seuss
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Cooper jcooper@acs.ucalgary.ca

Oleg Kaizerman

Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:15 am

Guest

check this one , with foam and furry over the mikes it might work

http://www.okmmicrophones.com/IE/okmhome.html

--
Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland

"jason cooper" <jcooper@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:c7dr5r$nco$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Quote:

William Sarokin (bigmaho@verizon.net) wrote:
: My guess for the jumper, either tape an omin lav (with a little
windjammer)
: in your helmet just in front of your ear, or make a fake head.

Another question -- could one use two lavs, one on either side of
the head, to get good reproduction of stereo effects? If so, how
difficult would this be for an amateur to rig?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
. . . Except when they don't,
Because sometimes they won't. - Dr. Seuss
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Cooper jcooper@acs.ucalgary.ca

William Sarokin

Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 1:06 pm

Guest

"jason cooper" <jcooper@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote in message> Another
question -- could one use two lavs, one on either side of

Quote:

the head, to get good reproduction of stereo effects? If so, how
difficult would this be for an amateur to rig?

It's not too difficult. Many companies make microphones for deadheads to
record concerts. They look like ear buds but they're actually mics.

http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm

And yes, the micro-cat is the 'mini windjammer' I was thinking of (I
couldn't remember the name).

Billy

Jason Porter

Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 6:04 pm

Guest

I've never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane...so I'm not sure how
it ACTUALLY sounds (a definite plus to sound designers!)

Not to embarass myself here, but...I've recorded some pretty impressive
wind noise out the window of a car (CMC4+MK41 & zepp, Rycote combo)

Found a secluded, straight piece of country road got up to about 160
km/h..., stuck the mic out the window. It's not the real thing..but
what is REAL anyway?? Wink

And...all the "do-overs" you can handle...as long as you have fuel!!

I'm sure the real wind noise is very dramatic...but maybe you could
experiment a little in post.

-Jason

Glen Trew

Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 10:47 pm

Guest

I believe that adding a foam windscreen inside a zepplin that is already
covered with fur further reduces high freq transients more than it helps
with wind noise.

The remaining noise is usually wind hitting the outside of the rig, not wind
getting inside to the microphone. A more useful treatment would be to wrap a
windjammer around the exposed parts of the mount and top of the boom pole.

GT

"Charles Tomaras" <tomaras@tomaras.com> wrote in message
news:6IGdnfOwtp5W2gXdRVn-hw@comcast.com...

Quote:

"jason cooper" <jcooper@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:c78kml$g1u$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
I was sent this way by the folks at rec.arts.movies.tech.
Hopefully somebody here can help me out...

I'm recording a documentary on BASE jumping. As part of that,
I'll be shooting a lot of first-person video of freefall from
objects. One of the most striking things about the experience, I
believe, is the dynamics of the wind noise as the jumper's speed
picks up -- yet I've never seen it accurately captured in a film.

I'll be shooting with a Panasonic NV-GS70 (since the forces on a
jumper necessitate a light camera) with an external mic. Wind
speed varies during a jump from 0 mph to ~120 mph. Above about
50 mph, I'm clearly not expecting to get anything but wind
noise.

My experience has been that naked mics give wind noise which has
more crackle and pop, and less whistle, than one hears. Is there
a modification or shield available, or one which I can make
myself, which will result in a more faithful reproduction of that
sound?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Why not take a nice mic cardiod mic, with a foam screen inside of a full
zeppelin with both a flannel cover and a furry windsock. Take a jump with
a
decent audio recorder and just record the sound which you can use in the
background for your real jumps.

Charles Tomaras

Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:02 am

Guest

"Glen Trew" <glen@nixthistrewaudio.com> wrote in message
news:Ia2dnbDbP60l-wHdRVn-iQ@comcast.com...

Quote:

I believe that adding a foam windscreen inside a zepplin that is already
covered with fur further reduces high freq transients more than it helps
with wind noise.

The remaining noise is usually wind hitting the outside of the rig, not
wind
getting inside to the microphone. A more useful treatment would be to wrap
a
windjammer around the exposed parts of the mount and top of the boom pole.

GT

Good observation...makes sense.

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