| |
 |
|
|
Movies Forum Index » Movie Technology Forum » Two -color Technicolor Questions?
Page 1 of 1
|
| Author |
Message |
| Peter Mason |
 Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:15 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
I notice in Richard Haines' Technicolor book that he states and
illustrates that the original additive two- color process(The Gulf
Between) and the later subtractive two- color process(The Toll of the
Sea etc) used blue-green for one color and red for the other color. I
notice in the documentary "Glorious Technicolor" which is one of the
extras on the recently released "The Adventures of Robin Hood" 2 disc
Dvd that both these films used green only for the first color and red
for the second color. I know that the Bi-pack processes such as
Cinecolor and Multicolor used blue-green plus red in their processes.
Can anybody verify what colors were used in the Technicolor two color
processes?
Regards,
Peter Mason |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Early Film |
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 9:47 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Peter Mason asks:
Quote: The Adventures of Robin Hood" 2 disc
Dvd that both these films used green only for the first color and red
for the second color. I know that the Bi-pack processes such as
Cinecolor and Multicolor used blue-green plus red in their processes.
Can anybody verify what colors were used in the Technicolor two color
processes?
The later sound two-color Technicolor prints were Red and Cyan. If you think
about it, subtractive yellow plus subtractive magenta equals red. They
handled rough indoor vs outdoor color balance by changing the double filter in
the camera, with the fine tweaks made during printing.
Now, for the first few years of two-color Technicolor, they used colors from
"blue to green" and "red to orange" in printing. This was done to make the sky
and grass in the exteriors realistic, while for the interiors, they went for
the highest saturation. These early silent prints had splices at every indoor
to outdoor junction. They had to test the costumes because doing this
sometimes shifted color appearance of the costumes. I have read that there
were two sets of costumes used for the first few Technicolor productions, and
that would have included the BLACK PIRATE.
I also have read that when some early Technicolor prints went too beefy on the
flesh tones, they dunked the print in a pale yellow wash to clean up the flesh
tones.
It is really impossible to judge by surviving prints what the early films
looked like, because they faded so fast. The later two color prints, like the
nitrate print of REDSKIN, looks as beautiful today as when it was printed,
although the sole Eastman color print of this title, made in the early 1970s,
has faded somewhat.
Earl. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| J. Theakston |
| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:49 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
cinemad@hotmail.com (Peter Mason) wrote in message news:<5665b2ea.0312020115.462fc0cd@posting.google.com>...
Quote: Can anybody verify what colors were used in the Technicolor two color
processes?
I've never seen examples of a cyan imbibation as Lincoln has pointed
out. Every occourance of Technicolor I've seen uses red and green. A
muted cyan can be produced with these two colors, which often causes
confusion. Another factor to confusion is the modern-day tweaking of
these colors, as exhibited in the recent MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM
release.
I HAVE heard however, that on occasion Technicolor had the ability of
changing the dyes to fit certain scenes (using a blue instead of green
dye during scenes where blue was a key factor).
Off the top, I know that Cinecolor used a cyan-blue bias in the
process, which gave a more natural hue. Prizmacolor also used a
red/blue scheme.
-J. Theakston |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Peter Mason |
| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:51 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
tomservorobot@yahoo.com (J. Theakston) wrote in message news:<d9df4496.0312021349.c7a5b96@posting.google.com>...
Quote: cinemad@hotmail.com (Peter Mason) wrote in message news:<5665b2ea.0312020115.462fc0cd@posting.google.com>...
Can anybody verify what colors were used in the Technicolor two color
processes?
I've never seen examples of a cyan imbibation as Lincoln has pointed
out. Every occourance of Technicolor I've seen uses red and green. A
muted cyan can be produced with these two colors, which often causes
confusion. Another factor to confusion is the modern-day tweaking of
these colors, as exhibited in the recent MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM
release.
According to the article about the filming of Douglas Fairbanks' "The
Black Pirate"(American Cinematographer, April/May 1992) red and green
coloured filters were used on the two-color Technicolor process.The
author, Rudy Behlmer,states on page 39 of the April 1992 AC article:
"Two-color Technicolor obviously had limitations in the color
spectrum.
Blue and yellow were non-existent,and eliminating yellow caused blue
skies
to register as turquoise."
I don't understand why yellow should be non existent as yellow is a
combination of Red + green and this system was sensitive to both these
colours.I can't see how eliminating yellow would cause blue skies to
register as turquoise, this would be more to do with the lack of blue
sensitivity since the two color Technicolor camera had a green filter
only not a blue-green filter.
Quote: I HAVE heard however, that on occasion Technicolor had the ability of
changing the dyes to fit certain scenes (using a blue instead of green
dye during scenes where blue was a key factor).
It would seem to me that the print made from the red record negative
should be
dyed blue/green(cyan) and the print from the green record negative
should be dyed its complimentary color, magenta but according to the
AC "the Black Pirate"
article (AC May 1992 page 3 the print from the green record negative
was dyed red-orange, which would be the complimentary color to cyan
not green.
Quote:
Off the top, I know that Cinecolor used a cyan-blue bias in the
process, which gave a more natural hue. Prizmacolor also used a
red/blue scheme.
Cinecolor used a Bi-pack which consisted of an
orthochromatic(blue/green sensitive)film behind which was paced a
panchromatic film and a red/orange layer between these two
emulsions.Since Cinecolor covered both the blue and green areas of the
spectrum and not just the green as did two color Technicolor perhaps
its results were more natural.
Does anbody know for sure if the gree-record print was dyed magenta or
red-orange as is claimed in th "the Black Pirate" AC article?
Actually two-color Technicolor looks very similar to the old
Agfacolor/Sovcolor
film which had a decidedly green/brown appearance.
Regards,
Peter Mason |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Martin Hart |
| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:04 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
In article <5665b2ea.0312090151.5c0ddf6b@posting.google.com>,
cinemad@hotmail.com says...
<SNIP>
Quote: I don't understand why yellow should be non existent as yellow is a
combination of Red + green and this system was sensitive to both these
colours.I can't see how eliminating yellow would cause blue skies to
register as turquoise, this would be more to do with the lack of blue
sensitivity since the two color Technicolor camera had a green filter
only not a blue-green filter.
The fact is that no two-component system can record and reproduce a true
yellow. Cinecolor and Technicolor's similar process, Technichrome, could
come pretty close but yellowISH isn't yellow.
Quote: I HAVE heard however, that on occasion Technicolor had the ability of
changing the dyes to fit certain scenes (using a blue instead of green
dye during scenes where blue was a key factor).
It would seem to me that the print made from the red record negative
should be
dyed blue/green(cyan) and the print from the green record negative
should be dyed its complimentary color, magenta but according to the
AC "the Black Pirate"
article (AC May 1992 page 3 the print from the green record negative
was dyed red-orange, which would be the complimentary color to cyan
not green.
Technicolor had the ability to play with the dyes to a very great
extent. In their two component system they didn't use precise
complementary dyes for the camera filters. This gave them a more
pleasing palette in the final print. A number of the two component
systems could provide realistic looking color, but it was never
extremely accurate color, requiring some fudging in makeup, costume, and
set designs.
Quote:
Off the top, I know that Cinecolor used a cyan-blue bias in the
process, which gave a more natural hue. Prizmacolor also used a
red/blue scheme.
Cinecolor used a Bi-pack which consisted of an
orthochromatic(blue/green sensitive)film behind which was paced a
panchromatic film and a red/orange layer between these two
emulsions.Since Cinecolor covered both the blue and green areas of the
spectrum and not just the green as did two color Technicolor perhaps
its results were more natural.
In my opinion, Cinecolor produced the best two color prints of all the
major systems, including Technicolor. They had a long time to futz with
their process to get it to provide what appeared to be a full color
range while actually being fairly limited. Cinecolor produced prints
made from assorted bi-pack schemes as well as reversal films such as
Kodachrome and Ansco Color, and even Eastman Color negative. Most of the
prints from Eastman Color were in their three-component system,
introduced in 1949.
Quote: Does anbody know for sure if the gree-record print was dyed magenta or
red-orange as is claimed in th "the Black Pirate" AC article?
Actually two-color Technicolor looks very similar to the old
Agfacolor/Sovcolor
film which had a decidedly green/brown appearance.
I've seen two-component Technicolor in a wide variety of hues, some
looking remarkably lifelike and others not so hot. We are at the mercy
of whoever tries to transfer the odd palette to the three component
additive system of video and that makes it difficult to judge how good
any process may have been in its own time.
--
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:52 am
|
|