When I had the opportunity, I checked, and sure enough, the Countryman
B6 is out of phase from all my other mics. I compared its phase to a
416, a Schoeps, an Oktava, several Sankens, even other Countryman mics
and the B6 was definitely the culprit.

Recently, I was doing a run-n-gun reality thing-a-ma-jig for Discovery
and had two people wired with lavs, mixed into one channel, while I was
booming to the other channel. I had a Countryman B6 on the gentlemen
and a Sanken COS-11 on the lady.

So, we're running, we're gunning, we're shooting everything in sight,
all around an antique shop, up some precarious stairs -- you know, the
usual -- then I noticed something. When the two people approached each
other I heard comb filtering on the lav sum. Whoa! Can this be? My
mics?! MY MICS?! Out of phase?!!!! Oh, the horror!

When I had the opportunity, I checked, and sure enough, the Countryman
B6 is out of phase from all my other mics. I compared its phase to a
416, a Schoeps, an Oktava, several Sankens, even other Countryman mics
and the B6 was definitely the culprit.

Since this is just a two wire mic, there's no option, phase-wise, how
it's wired into the Lectrosonics transmitter. Ground goes to ground --
obviously. So, what's the deal?

I phoned Countryman today to ask about it. The lady I spoke with was
quite knowledgable in her own right, but she went to Carl himself with
this and the answer that come back was that it is due to the fact that
it is only two wire and not three. When I asked if that meant that the
capsule was originally designed out of phase the "two wire" response
kept coming back. She said that the B6s are all the same in this
regard. Finally, she said that a lot of their users run Sennheiser
wireless rigs and that the mic was designed primarily for that, so
through my Lectrosonics kits it's out of phase.

I don't mean to criticize Countryman. Their mics sound good and the gal
was very pleasant and called me back with responses, so they deserve
props, but the answer never really satisfied my technical side. As I
recall, proper phase means that the positive cycle of a pressure wave on
the diapraghm should result in a positive signal in reference to ground.

So, maybe someone here can shed some light. Is it because of positive
vs negative bias and some way that it affects the phase? I'm searching
here. Enlightenment please. I'm not understanding why a respected
manufacturer would knowingly produce an out-of-phase mic.

Are everyone's B6s out of phase, or was I misinformed? Enquiring ears
want to know...

Thanks,
John Blankenship, Indy

Why not flip the phase at the output of the Lectrosonics receiver?

When I had the opportunity, I checked, and sure enough, the Countryman
B6 is out of phase from all my other mics. I compared its phase to a
416, a Schoeps, an Oktava, several Sankens, even other Countryman mics
and the B6 was definitely the culprit.

Since this is just a two wire mic, there's no option, phase-wise, how
it's wired into the Lectrosonics transmitter. Ground goes to ground --
obviously. So, what's the deal?

I phoned Countryman today to ask about it. The lady I spoke with was
quite knowledgable in her own right, but she went to Carl himself with
this and the answer that come back was that it is due to the fact that
it is only two wire and not three. When I asked if that meant that the
capsule was originally designed out of phase the "two wire" response
kept coming back. She said that the B6s are all the same in this
regard. Finally, she said that a lot of their users run Sennheiser
wireless rigs and that the mic was designed primarily for that, so
through my Lectrosonics kits it's out of phase.

I don't mean to criticize Countryman. Their mics sound good and the gal
was very pleasant and called me back with responses, so they deserve
props, but the answer never really satisfied my technical side. As I
recall, proper phase means that the positive cycle of a pressure wave on
the diapraghm should result in a positive signal in reference to ground.

So, maybe someone here can shed some light. Is it because of positive
vs negative bias and some way that it affects the phase? I'm searching
here. Enlightenment please. I'm not understanding why a respected
manufacturer would knowingly produce an out-of-phase mic.

Are everyone's B6s out of phase, or was I misinformed? Enquiring ears
want to know...

Thanks,
John Blankenship, Indy

Hi John,
Carl is technically correct both in his reply and in the mic design.
Here's a longer winded explanation. Assume all electret lavalieres
are electrically the same. A capacitive mic element drives a Field
Effect Transistor (FET). The FET is used to match the super high
impedance (really reactance) of the capacitor element to the low
impedance of a mic input. There are two ways to get an audio signal
from the FET: connecting to the source of the FET (three wire set up)
with bias on a separate wire or connecting to the drain of the FET
(two wire set up ) with audio and bias on the same wire. Both hookups
can work very well. The only "problem" is that these two signals are
exactly out of phase. If a mic like the COS-11 is hooked up as a three
wire mic and wired to a Lectro transmitter using the Lectro
recommended three wire hookup, then a positive pressure pulse at the
mic produces a positive electrical pulse at pin 2 of the XLR at the
output of the receiver. This is taken as an industry standard of
"being in phase".

If we take that same COS-11 and hook it up as a two wire mic using
our recommended setup then it is out of phase. It's not a fault of the
mic or our wiring; it is just inherent in the mic's built in FET. This
scenario is true of any three wire mic setup, not just a COS-11. When
used as a two wire mic, the phase is reversed. Why even have a two
wire setup? Smaller cables can be used and they can be substantially
more rugged and in addition some wireless transmitters require a two
wire setup such as our MM400a and M175.

Now what are Carl's choices? Wire his two wire B6 to be in phase with
other three wire units or in phase with other two wire units (or
wiring setups)? Countryman has made the most logical choice of being
the same as other two wire setups.

All of this is perfectly normal though still a bit of a pain for the
user. Generally, pro wireless receivers have a phase switch or menu
selection to correct for two wire or three wire setups or other wiring
differences. Pro mixers do the same. With enough of these switches you
can get very lost.

Hope this helps,
Larry F
Lectro

All of this is perfectly normal though still a bit of a pain for the
user. Generally, pro wireless receivers have a phase switch or menu
selection to correct for two wire or three wire setups or other wiring
differences. Pro mixers do the same. With enough of these switches you
can get very lost.

Hope this helps,
Larry F
Lectro

Larry

Larry Fisher <larrylectro@despammed.com> wrote in message
All of this is perfectly normal though still a bit of a pain for the
user. Generally, pro wireless receivers have a phase switch or menu
selection to correct for two wire or three wire setups or other wiring
differences. Pro mixers do the same. With enough of these switches you
can get very lost.

Hope this helps,
Larry F
Lectro

Larry
I don't recall a phase switch on the 195D or 210. By your statement,
I'm assuming all lectro's have this. Can you elaborate?
Thanks

SNIP, SNIP, CLIP CLIP
Ah, the advantages of creeping senility; you forget your mistakes.

Larry F

Rats. I blew it. You are absolutely right. There are pilot bypass and
mic-line level switches but no phase switches on the 195 through the
210's. In fact. we had some (ahem) problems getting the phase
consistent on some of the older units. I will amend my categorical
statement to "recent pro wireless receivers". Ah, the advantages of
creeping senility; you forget your mistakes.

Larry
I don't recall a phase switch on the 195D or 210. By your statement,
I'm assuming all lectro's have this. Can you elaborate?
Thanks

Larry Fisher <larrylectro@despammed.com> wrote in message

Rats. I blew it. You are absolutely right. There are pilot bypass and
mic-line level switches but no phase switches on the 195 through the
210's. In fact. we had some (ahem) problems getting the phase
consistent on some of the older units. I will amend my categorical
statement to "recent pro wireless receivers". Ah, the advantages of
creeping senility; you forget your mistakes.


Larry
I don't recall a phase switch on the 195D or 210. By your statement,
I'm assuming all lectro's have this. Can you elaborate?
Thanks


Larry
I'll forgive you this time and after that I'll forget what what I
forgave.
But what should I do with my B-6's? I have trams, ECM 77's and 2
B-6's; mostly using my pair of 210's along with my 195D's. I just
added the B-6's so I haven't had any problems, yet. And my mixer
doesn't have a phase switch.
I frequently have situations where I'll put 2 wireless on subjects and
then boom for extra people around a group. So the 2 wireless go on
channel one and boom on two.
Does this phasing problem only happen when mixing 2 wire mics with
three wire mics but not with two two wire mics?
Glen Trew, can you pop in here? I've bought all this gear from you so
it's all your fault! You know how you normally wire TA5F's and various
mics. Anything you'd like to do to my gear (except upgrade all of it)?
Thanks everybody for all the great contributions.

To check your phase, hold the two mic heads, as close as possible, next to
each other. Turn one gain to normal and the other one off. Then, while
listening through your headphones and speaking into both of the mics
simultaneously, slowly turn up the second mic gain -- listening carefully
as you go -- until it is higher than the other gain. Now, put one of the
mics out of phase and do the same thing.

"John B., Indianapolis" <johntakethisout@indytakethisout.net> wrote in
message news:40e42d50$0$82995$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...

To check your phase, hold the two mic heads, as close as possible, next to
each other. Turn one gain to normal and the other one off. Then, while
listening through your headphones and speaking into both of the mics
simultaneously, slowly turn up the second mic gain -- listening carefully
as you go -- until it is higher than the other gain. Now, put one of the
mics out of phase and do the same thing.



Another simpler method is to pan the two mics left and right at roughly
equal volume then switch your headphones or speakers from stereo to mono and
back again. If your mics are out of phase with each other the sound will
collapse and thin out dramatically in mono.