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Movies Forum Index » Movie Production (Sound) Forum » new Sonosax mixing console
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| mixermans |
 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:12 pm |
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Hi everybody, This is my first post in a newsgroup! I have been
speaking with Sonosax about their new mixing conole. I am under the
impression that I will be able to output tracks and TC to a PC using
the Pyramix software. Is anyone familiar with the system? I have been
looking at various new systems to replace my Dat based recording but
nothing really catches my fancy. For me, the most important feature of
any big step would be to somehow remix a take if I was unhappy with my
mix. It is rare, but having that ability would be a real improvement.
I have spoken to many post editors over the years and almost every one
of them just wants a nice mixed mono track to work from. Fnding words
or phrases from multi track sources does not interest them. I am sure
there are some tht can do this but they are rare. Thanks |
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| Kurt Albershardt |
| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:36 pm |
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mixermans wrote:
Quote: Hi everybody, This is my first post in a newsgroup!
Welcome.
Quote: I have been
speaking with Sonosax about their new mixing conole. I am under the
impression that I will be able to output tracks and TC to a PC using
the Pyramix software. Is anyone familiar with the system?
Pyramix is a wonderful DAW, perhaps my favorite overall. It uses PCI DSP cards and special interfaces and would probably be one of my last choices for a portable setup. |
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| Jeff Wexler |
| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:12 pm |
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On 6/29/04 8:12 PM, in article
6a536c01.0406291912.3d58f59b@posting.google.com, "mixermans"
<pram100@fido.ca> wrote:
Quote: For me, the most important feature of
any big step would be to somehow remix a take if I was unhappy with my
mix. It is rare, but having that ability would be a real improvement.
Jeff Wexler comments:
I think we would all love to be able to re-do or re-mix some mixed track
that we have to turn in, but even if this were a capability/function of some
piece of hardware/software, when would you find the time to perform this
re-mix? For most of the people doing any kind of multi-track recording (and
this applies to even just 2-track recordings) there is still the necessity
of delivering on a daily basis, on most jobs, one good mixed track. If you
cannot make this mix any good, in the moment, the only one who may suffer
(other than you) is the picture editor.
Quote: I have spoken to many post editors over the years and almost every one
of them just wants a nice mixed mono track to work from.
If "post editors" means the PICTURE editor, this is probably true. For SOUND
editors, I have never once heard that they would prefer LESS flexibility, by
having only one track however well mixed it may be.
Quote: Fnding words
or phrases from multi track sources does not interest them.
Again, if you are talking about the picture editor, this sort of SOUND track
work may not interest them. The post sound editorial person or team on the
other hand, this is exactly what they do. They will have the nice (or not so
nice) mixed track from the picture editor and hopefully ALL the other sound
elements the production sound mixer (and others) have been able to deliver.
It is becoming quite clear to me as I continue to have discussions with
people about multi-track recordings (regardless of the machine you use to
accomplish this) that the best procedure will be: bring in to your mix all
the sources you find necessary to use to record a scene and MIX these to one
or two tracks just as if that is all you have to work with. If you have more
than one or two tracks, send each one of these sources or elements to their
own track, independent of your mix. You deliver the one good mixed track AND
all the elements that went into that mix so that someone later can have a go
at a new mix.
Regards, Jeff Wexler |
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| =Rob€rto |
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:40 am |
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On 29 Jun 2004 20:12:55 -0700, pram100@fido.ca (mixermans) wrote:
Quote: Hi everybody, This is my first post in a newsgroup! I have been
speaking with Sonosax about their new mixing conole. I am under the
impression that I will be able to output tracks and TC to a PC using
the Pyramix software. Is anyone familiar with the system?
I've only seen it on paper, ( http://www.sonosax.ch/index2.html ,
click news, and scroll down ) and the mixer looks very nice.
Good ergonomics, lim-comp-eq- per channel, the whole thing.
The interesting point in what they want , is the fact that they
develop a ( portable ) mixing desk, including TC and remote control,
but without the storage.
So, in their opinion, you could hang a IPAQ or something at the end,
to hold the Data.
Now, i have a Pyramix version myself, but personally i do not see me
using that on location for primary recording. I also miss the meta
data input.
But i do like the new Sx-st / vt a lot, it is one ( imo ) of the best
designed portable mixing desks I've seen today.
Any idea what the List price is ?
Quote: I have been
looking at various new systems to replace my Dat based recording but
nothing really catches my fancy. For me, the most important feature of
any big step would be to somehow remix a take if I was unhappy with my
mix. It is rare, but having that ability would be a real improvement.
So, you would like to remix the iso tracks to a mixdown track ?
The only thing that should be done by the ext hard & software, is that
your Mix tracks are not written as raw audio data, but as ''mix''
data, and then dump/write the mix to some carrier.
But ( of course ) you can only do this if your mix track is "'virtual"
and not made by your left-right outputs of the ext. mixer.
Not that difficult to develop/write i think..
Roberto
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html |
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| Marty |
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:46 pm |
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Any of the hard disk based field recorders will allow you to record iso
tracks and reserve on or two tracks for a mix. Of course, the more
tracks the machine is capable of the better, and the new models are up
to 10 tracks total. Then, at the end of the day, you could remix a take
if necessary.
You didn't saw whether you are working for film or Television. If film,
and you're working off a cart, the new Zaxcom 8 and 10 track machines
even offer an optional mixing control panel with linear faders. However,
I suspect from your writing that it is TV, because it is less likely
that TV post editors are interested in iso tracks. In that case, you can
burn to your mixes to compact flash memory cards instead of DAT tapes or
DVD Ram disks.
Marty
mixermans wrote:
Quote: Hi everybody, This is my first post in a newsgroup! I have been
speaking with Sonosax about their new mixing conole. I am under the
impression that I will be able to output tracks and TC to a PC using
the Pyramix software. Is anyone familiar with the system? I have been
looking at various new systems to replace my Dat based recording but
nothing really catches my fancy. For me, the most important feature of
any big step would be to somehow remix a take if I was unhappy with my
mix. It is rare, but having that ability would be a real improvement.
I have spoken to many post editors over the years and almost every one
of them just wants a nice mixed mono track to work from. Fnding words
or phrases from multi track sources does not interest them. I am sure
there are some tht can do this but they are rare. Thanks
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| mixermans |
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:18 am |
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Thanks for the responses. I guess the ideal situation would be to
occasionaly (once a week or so) remix a shot where I knew the tracks
were on the hard drive but the Ad lib or "changed without telling the
mixer" dialogue could be improved. (assuming the new stuff was on mic.
at all). The Sonosax/Pyramix combination may be a solution. I would
still probably deliver my mono dailies on Dat or whatever the flavour
of the week is. The unmixed tracks and single mixed track could maybe
be output from the Pyramix software (or Deva or Portadrive, or...) to
DVD and sent directly to the sound editing team once they are onboard.
It is a bit frustrating too, becuse there really doesn't seem to be a
single solution to the multi track delivery idea. I remember my Nagra
and the day I split tracks on a Cannell show. Gary Winters called me
the next day and tore my head off for splitting the boom and the
radios. My BIG notes on the sound report didn't help either! So I
became a do it right the first time in mono guy. Times have changed
and sound editing tools have become much more sophisticated. I only
hope the dust settles at some point and a new "mutitrack" location
mixing delivery standard comes about...probably impo$$ible...but
Innnnterestinggg! |
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| Jeff Wexler |
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:24 am |
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On 6/30/04 11:18 PM, in article
6a536c01.0406302218.363036bc@posting.google.com, "mixermans"
<pram100@fido.ca> wrote:
Quote: Thanks for the responses. I guess the ideal situation would be to
occasionaly (once a week or so) remix a shot where I knew the tracks
were on the hard drive but the Ad lib or "changed without telling the
mixer" dialogue could be improved. (assuming the new stuff was on mic.
at all). The Sonosax/Pyramix combination may be a solution.
I hate to keep harping on the obvious, and maybe it is because I work in a
different arena than you, but what makes you think the Production sound
mixer will be able to do another mix "once a week or so" and that this would
be a mix that anyone in post sound editorial would be interested in?
Quote: I would
still probably deliver my mono dailies on Dat or whatever the flavour
of the week is.
This is a necessity regardless of what device or how ever many tracks you
may have recorded. For sync picture dailies to be possible, you must deliver
some coherent and comprehensible mixed track, and in a form that is easily
and efficiently utilized on a daily basis.
Quote: It is a bit frustrating too, becuse there really doesn't seem to be a
single solution to the multi track delivery idea.
What is the frustration? Just pretend you are using your old mono Nagra, MIX
everything to ONE track, make it as good as you can and hand it in at the
end of the day. The beauty of now having easily available tracks, up to 10
with the new Deva, is that you can put the ELEMENTS that went into YOUR
first mix on their own tracks --- then a second, or third, or fourth mix can
be done later (by you, if you have the time, or by the post sound editorial
team, if they have the time). There really are no major problems to the
"multi-track delivery idea" if you follow these simple procedures.
Quote: I remember my Nagra
and the day I split tracks on a Cannell show. Gary Winters called me
the next day and tore my head off for splitting the boom and the
radios.
The first time I "split tracks" with one of the first ever stereo Nagras, I
not only had to send in elaborate and detailed sound reports, I had to send
in the Nagra recorder with the tapes so that Todd-AO could do the dailies!
Quote: So I
became a do it right the first time in mono guy. Times have changed
and sound editing tools have become much more sophisticated. I only
hope the dust settles at some point and a new "mutitrack" location
mixing delivery standard comes about...
I cannot claim to have always "done it right" the first time but I have
never lost sight of my mixing craft even in the face of multitrack
capabilities. As for a multitrack location mixing delivery standard, why is
this needed? As long as we can deliver our work, from one track to many, to
the people who need to do their work completing the sound on any given
project, everything will be fine.
Regards, Jeff Wexler |
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| Mike Westgate AMPS |
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:10 am |
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| Rób€rto˛ |
| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:32 am |
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On 2 Jul 2004 01:10:37 -0700, mikewest@soundtq.co.nz (Mike Westgate
AMPS) wrote:
Quote: Well stated Jeff!
After all we are sound mixers not track layers!!
But the soundmixing used to be a "must"" because of the lack of enough
tracks.
I think as soon as the new Multitrackers take over the 2 track DAT
market, in combination with tyhe new Adrenaline Avids, the way you
deliver might also change. ( mix track, all tracks )
R |
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| Mike Westgate AMPS |
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:19 am |
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I think it depends upon the post production team's policy.
The question do you want a usable mix plus discrete tracks
or just discrete tracks will have to be asked, so I feel that
we will still be required to be "sound mixers".
I look forward to using my HHB Portadrive and offering post
facilities material that can be loaded from the hard drive
straight into Protools or Avid sessions.
I mixed onto mono and stereo Nagras for 13 years and I've mixed onto
DAT machines for 12 years and I feel that this skill will still
be required despite mulitrack opportunities that I now have.
For the record, how many features, TV dramas and documentaries
have you serviced?
Regards
Mike
www.mikewestgatesound.webnz.co.nz |
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| =Rob€rto |
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:49 am |
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On 4 Jul 2004 01:19:48 -0700, mikewest@soundtq.co.nz (Mike Westgate
AMPS) wrote:
Quote: I look forward to using my HHB Portadrive and offering post
facilities material that can be loaded from the hard drive
straight into Protools or Avid sessions.
Thats what i mean, i wonder how things will change/develop when you
have these tracks all the time available.
Its not that i think that mixing is not good, or necessary, but things
will change, imo.
Quote: I mixed onto mono and stereo Nagras for 13 years and I've mixed onto
DAT machines for 12 years and I feel that this skill will still
be required despite mulitrack opportunities that I now have.
For the record, how many features, TV dramas and documentaries
have you serviced?
20 years ( it feels shorter ) and a few months in total, Mixing for
14 years, over a 1000 ( 2000 ? ) commercials, 24 features , and a
shitload TV stuff. ( did i pass the test ?  )
But still the move from 1 ( 1987- nagra 4-2 ) to 2 ( 1989 -technics
260 A DAT ) , 4 ( 1995-nagra D ) to 8 ( 2003-cantar ) track, did
change my thinking over how to record and even mix, or not mix )
R ( by the way, did you already do a feature on the HHB ? )
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html |
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