Heard a rumor that the National Tier 1, 2 & 3 contracts may be going
away.

True?

Dear God, say it's true.

:)

Jan

Heard a rumor that the National Tier 1, 2 & 3 contracts may be going
away.

True?

Dear God, say it's true.

:)

Jan

On May 2, 5:16 am, Jan McLaughlin <jannie....@gmail.com> wrote:

Heard a rumor that the National Tier 1, 2 & 3 contracts may be going
away.

True?

Dear God, say it's true.

:)

Jan

Are you saying it was better when those jobs were non-union?
Peter

On May 2, 9:43 pm, Peter <pkurl...@earthlink.net> wrote:

On May 2, 5:16 am, Jan McLaughlin <jannie....@gmail.com> wrote:

Heard a rumor that the National Tier 1, 2 & 3 contracts may be going
away.

True?

Dear God, say it's true.

:)

Jan

Are you saying it was better when those jobs were non-union?
Peter

Not at all, at all.

That folks work for $16-and-change/hour on Tier One's boggles the
mind.

The 14-hour day thing Mr. Sharman mentions...been there / done that.
It's really, really, really challenging & difficult, especially on
longer-term projects. I swear there's a way to make motion pictures
where everybody makes money without 'em.

It's a squeeze between making / not making a movie with or without
union technicians. By all means, make lots of small pictures with
union personnel that would not otherwise be made. Are Tier projects
apprentice programs in disguise? Yeah.

If the Tier contract goes away, what will replace it, and what do WE
imagine would be better? What are the major issues? Are 14-hour days,
five days a week too much? Will the 18-day Tier One feature production
schedule shrink to 17 days, then 16 days...with 15-hour and 16-hour
days the norm? I know of shows that did 18-hour days regularly. How?
How did they do that? By 'cha-chinging' themselves to sleep? I guess
so.

The East Coast Council model wherein the crew is vested in the
picture's success is one I'm comfortable with and even inspired by,
especially if accounting is closely followed by the hall. Do we have a
forensic accountant or two on staff? :)

I can see the direction things are headed and despair the far horizon.
Unless...unless we do something to turn current models on their heads.

Think outside the box.

Jan

On May 2, 9:43 pm, Peter <pkurl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On May 2, 5:16 am, Jan McLaughlin <jannie....@gmail.com> wrote:

Heard a rumor that the National Tier 1, 2 & 3 contracts may be going
away.

True?

Dear God, say it's true.

:)

Jan

Are you saying it was better when those jobs were non-union?
Peter

Not at all, at all.

That folks work for $16-and-change/hour on Tier One's boggles the
mind.

The 14-hour day thing Mr. Sharman mentions...been there / done that.
It's really, really, really challenging & difficult, especially on
longer-term projects. I swear there's a way to make motion pictures
where everybody makes money without 'em.

It's a squeeze between making / not making a movie with or without
union technicians. By all means, make lots of small pictures with
union personnel that would not otherwise be made. Are Tier projects
apprentice programs in disguise? Yeah.

If the Tier contract goes away, what will replace it, and what do WE
imagine would be better? What are the major issues? Are 14-hour days,
five days a week too much? Will the 18-day Tier One feature production
schedule shrink to 17 days, then 16 days...with 15-hour and 16-hour
days the norm? I know of shows that did 18-hour days regularly. How?
How did they do that? By 'cha-chinging' themselves to sleep? I guess
so.

The East Coast Council model wherein the crew is vested in the
picture's success is one I'm comfortable with and even inspired by,
especially if accounting is closely followed by the hall. Do we have a
forensic accountant or two on staff? :)

I can see the direction things are headed and despair the far horizon.
Unless...unless we do something to turn current models on their heads.

Think outside the box.

Jan

"As a clarification, the Independent Low Budget Contract does contain
deferral language that pays the crew a bonus if the project is
successful. This is essentially the same language from the East Coast
Council agreements."

Please, by all means, show me this language...

I have a copy of the agreement and have read it beginning to end.
There is no provision for deferred payment.

These contracts are absurd, and should perhaps be reserved for truly
independently financed films, and should not be a way for established
studios to make movies they would make anyway for less money and more
profit.  I get why they do this, but isn't it a union's job to fight
back and keep our wages consistent with inflation.  Who on this forum,
and I don't mean people who have been in the business for 5 years or
less,  have seen their wages increase without a significant increas in
work hours and days.  I mean, what are our dues for?

Robert

Oh Peter.  You want a share of the studio's profits?  How silly of you..  You
know what the cost of labor does to a budget in the first place!!

D.

Didn't Bruce Willis speak eloquently on that issue once?  How quickly we
forget.

I remember it well. And I remember when he visited a set at Sony right

On May 3, 1:35 pm, Jan McLaughlin <jannie....@gmail.com> wrote:
On May 2, 9:43 pm, Peter <pkurl...@earthlink.net> wrote:

On May 2, 5:16 am, Jan McLaughlin <jannie....@gmail.com> wrote:

Heard a rumor that the National Tier 1, 2 & 3 contracts may be going
away.

True?

Dear God, say it's true.

:)

Jan

Are you saying it was better when those jobs were non-union?
Peter

Not at all, at all.

That folks work for $16-and-change/hour on Tier One's boggles the
mind.

The 14-hour day thing Mr. Sharman mentions...been there / done that.
It's really, really, really challenging & difficult, especially on
longer-term projects. I swear there's a way to make motion pictures
where everybody makes money without 'em.

It's a squeeze between making / not making a movie with or without
union technicians. By all means, make lots of small pictures with
union personnel that would not otherwise be made. Are Tier projects
apprentice programs in disguise? Yeah.

If the Tier contract goes away, what will replace it, and what do WE
imagine would be better? What are the major issues? Are 14-hour days,
five days a week too much? Will the 18-day Tier One feature production
schedule shrink to 17 days, then 16 days...with 15-hour and 16-hour
days the norm? I know of shows that did 18-hour days regularly. How?
How did they do that? By 'cha-chinging' themselves to sleep? I guess
so.

The East Coast Council model wherein the crew is vested in the
picture's success is one I'm comfortable with and even inspired by,
especially if accounting is closely followed by the hall. Do we have a
forensic accountant or two on staff? :)

I can see the direction things are headed and despair the far horizon.
Unless...unless we do something to turn current models on their heads.

Think outside the box.

Jan

As a clarification, the Independent Low Budget Contract does contain
deferral language that pays the crew a bonus if the project is
successful. This is essentially the same language from the East Coast
Council agreements.
While the pay is bad and the hours sometimes long, these projects used
to be done with no benefits and no overtime. At least double-time
gives a producer a financial reason to stop shooting eventually.
The amazing thing is we work these hours mostly to give flexibility
for cast schedules. It is clearly less expensive to work shorter days.
But then they need a bigger cast window. (To be fair it also costs
less to rent equipment for fewer, longer days.)
Regardless, in the old days one could buy themselves decent health
insurance. Now, some crew is working low budget just to get benefit
days, without which they'd be bankrupted. Until the US figures out a
real solution (read single-payer universal health coverage) we'll be
picking the lesser of evils.
Peter
Just as an aside, while our rates shrink and health costs go up, the
producers are saving a TON of money with the stupid competing
incentive plans. Every time a new state comes up with a bigger
giveaway (most recently Michigan with over 40% including prints and
advertising!!) the others rush to catch up. Producers can now pick
from lots of locations, just like in the past, but now we taxpayers
subsidize millions of dollars everywhere. Where's the taxpayers' share
of the profits for their investment?

On May 3, 1:35 pm, Jan McLaughlin <jannie....@gmail.com> wrote:
On May 2, 9:43 pm, Peter <pkurl...@earthlink.net> wrote:

On May 2, 5:16 am, Jan McLaughlin <jannie....@gmail.com> wrote:

Heard a rumor that the National Tier 1, 2 & 3 contracts may be going
away.

True?

Dear God, say it's true.

:)

Jan

Are you saying it was better when those jobs were non-union?
Peter

Not at all, at all.

That folks work for $16-and-change/hour on Tier One's boggles the
mind.

The 14-hour day thing Mr. Sharman mentions...been there / done that.
It's really, really, really challenging & difficult, especially on
longer-term projects. I swear there's a way to make motion pictures
where everybody makes money without 'em.

It's a squeeze between making / not making a movie with or without
union technicians. By all means, make lots of small pictures with
union personnel that would not otherwise be made. Are Tier projects
apprentice programs in disguise? Yeah.

If the Tier contract goes away, what will replace it, and what do WE
imagine would be better? What are the major issues? Are 14-hour days,
five days a week too much? Will the 18-day Tier One feature production
schedule shrink to 17 days, then 16 days...with 15-hour and 16-hour
days the norm? I know of shows that did 18-hour days regularly. How?
How did they do that? By 'cha-chinging' themselves to sleep? I guess
so.

The East Coast Council model wherein the crew is vested in the
picture's success is one I'm comfortable with and even inspired by,
especially if accounting is closely followed by the hall. Do we have a
forensic accountant or two on staff? :)

I can see the direction things are headed and despair the far horizon.
Unless...unless we do something to turn current models on their heads.

Think outside the box.

Jan

As a clarification, the Independent Low Budget Contract does contain
deferral language that pays the crew a bonus if the project is
successful. This is essentially the same language from the East Coast
Council agreements.
While the pay is bad and the hours sometimes long, these projects used
to be done with no benefits and no overtime. At least double-time
gives a producer a financial reason to stop shooting eventually.
The amazing thing is we work these hours mostly to give flexibility
for cast schedules. It is clearly less expensive to work shorter days.
But then they need a bigger cast window. (To be fair it also costs
less to rent equipment for fewer, longer days.)
Regardless, in the old days one could buy themselves decent health
insurance. Now, some crew is working low budget just to get benefit
days, without which they'd be bankrupted. Until the US figures out a
real solution (read single-payer universal health coverage) we'll be
picking the lesser of evils.
Peter
Just as an aside, while our rates shrink and health costs go up, the
producers are saving a TON of money with the stupid competing
incentive plans. Every time a new state comes up with a bigger
giveaway (most recently Michigan with over 40% including prints and
advertising!!) the others rush to catch up. Producers can now pick
from lots of locations, just like in the past, but now we taxpayers
subsidize millions of dollars everywhere. Where's the taxpayers' share
of the profits for their investment?

On May 3, 5:20 pm, Robert Sharman <sharmanf...@earthlink.net> wrote:



"As a clarification, the Independent Low Budget Contract does contain
deferral language that pays the crew a bonus if the project is
successful. This is essentially the same language from the East Coast
Council agreements."

Please, by all means, show me this language...

I have a copy of the agreement and have read it beginning to end.
There is no provision for deferred payment.

These contracts are absurd, and should perhaps be reserved for truly
independently financed films, and should not be a way for established
studios to make movies they would make anyway for less money and more
profit. I get why they do this, but isn't it a union's job to fight
back and keep our wages consistent with inflation. Who on this forum,
and I don't mean people who have been in the business for 5 years or
less, have seen their wages increase without a significant increas in
work hours and days. I mean, what are our dues for?

Robert

Please keep in mind that there are two low budget national agreements,
one for term employers and one for true independents. This language is
from the latter.

E. Payment of Deferred Wages.
1. Whenever the gross receipts of the Production exceed two and one-
half times the budget set forth in paragraph D above, the Employer
will be obliged to pay additional wages to each bargaining unit
employee in an amount equal to 75% of the employee’s total wage
earnings from employment on the Production.

2. Whenever the gross receipts of the Production exceed four times
the budget set forth in paragraph D above, the Employer will be
obliged to make an additional aggregate contribution on behalf of each
bargaining unit employee to the appropriate designated benefit plans
set forth in the Area Standards Agreement in an amount equal to 25% of
the employee’s total wage earnings from employment on the Production.
The distribution of the aggregate contribution to the appropriate
plans shall be in the manner set forth in Article 5 of the Area
Standards Agreement.

F. Receipts. Gross receipts include all box office ticket sales, all
videocassette and disk sales, and all monies derived from the sale,
transfer, or assignment of domestic and/or foreign publication and
distribution rights in any form, including but not limited to film,
TV, pay-TV, cable, satellite, disk, or videocassette, whether received
by the employer and/or third party described by Paragraph H, below.
For purposes of this Agreement, the receipts herein shall be
determined to be no less than the amount reported in the most recent
edition of Variety.

G. Reports and Audits. The Employer shall provide the International
Union at its New York address with a monthly financial statement
showing gross receipts from all sources. Upon request, the Employer
shall promptly make its financial books and records available to the
Union. At any time, the Union may select a reputable accounting firm
to perform an audit. The Employer shall cooperate in good faith and
make all records available to the selected auditor. The auditor shall
have the right to inspect the Employer’s financial books and records
at least once every three months following completion of production.
The auditor’s findings shall be final and binding upon the parties.
The fees and expenses of the audit shall be born by the Employer.

H. Sale, Transfer, and Assignment. In the event the Employer decides
to sell, transfer, or assign all or part of its rights in the
Production to any third party, the Employer will immediately notify
the Union and provide it with any information requested. In any sale,
transfer, or assignment of rights to a third party, the Employer shall
make the third party aware of this Agreement, shall incorporate this
Agreement in any such transaction, and shall secure the third party’s
written acceptance and guarantee of the obligations set forth in this
Agreement. Such acceptance and guarantee shall be immediately
provided to the International Union at its New York office. The
Employer shall remain jointly liable with any third party under this
Agreement. The Employer’s failure to secure the third party’s written
acceptance and guarantee shall constitute a material and irreparable
breach of this Agreement and shall entitle the Union to seek
appropriate relief in law and equity.