Battery chargers

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oleg kaizerman

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:14 pm

Guest

"David Waelder" <davidnewsgrp@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:C3FFE201.13F72%davidnewsgrp@earthlink.net...

Quote:

On 3/13/08 2:10 PM, in article
b546299d-78cc-42d3-ae76-ef6f80f072d7@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
"david.carmiggelt@gmail.com" <david.carmiggelt@gmail.com> wrote:

If
you want the best, it's nice to know it's available and you probably
only
have to buy it once. Would probably work great with a $10,000 Chinda
cart!

Wow! is a Chinda cart THAT amount of money?!Love his work by the
way.Brian

Chinhda carts are expensive but the basic cart is $7500. It comes pretty
well equipped at that price - brackets for two monitors, disc brakes,
shock
absorbing suspension, etc. It can swell to $10,000 if multiple accessories
are added.

David Waelder

hmm 10000usd , that's only 6000euro and still going down

with all the respect for his work and it is quit unique , no cart justify be
in price of 2 new cars ( even they made in china )

Jim Rillie

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:40 pm

Guest

Gtrew wrote:

Quote:

On Mar 14, 3:23 pm, Brian Hannish <brianhan...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Note for Charles. The gear I mentioned does the same thing that a
Meon does...

Not really. In fact, not by a long shot. The system you described will
not safely float your batteries while also powering your cart. When
your batteries are fully charged, the charger will see the load of
your cart as a battery that needs to be charged, and continue to over-
charge your batteries. This will not only shorten the life of your
batteries, but can be very dangerous as your batteries expand. The
Meon safely charges it's battery while powering the cart. Also, the
system you described does not have a volt and amp meter. It is very
helpful to know how much current you are pulling, and the discharge
status of the battery. The Meon displays both. Also, the system you
described does not shut down to protect the battery from damaging deep
discharge. The Meon does.

Question to Glen. What Happens if I need to go all day without power
(AC) There is no external 12v input? The cart I want to build would
draw about 5 amps a 12v

External batteries can be used with the Meon: The Meon can except
external batteries, float-charge and maintain them and distribute the
power. For example, if more battery capacity is needed than the
internal Meon battery, external lead acid batteries of any size can be
plugged into any of the 13A outlets and distributed to the remaining
outlets. When AC is available the Meon power supply will properly
maintain a fully charged lead acid battery at 13.8V. While the Meon
will float-charge a lead acid battery when AC is present, it would be
much faster to charge a lead acid battery with a dedicated properly
sized charger.

Glen Trew

Thanks again for your invaluable input.

Brian Hanish

Yeah etc,

Just wondering if i am in a time warp or waht?

How many out there are still charging stuff at day's end, and going all
day on DC?
This has always made sense to me due to many days doing gigs interfacing
with other crews in live venues (iso'd splitters etc.).

AC has been the bane of my existence.

I guess I'm just a DC luddite. (and still hum/buzz- free)

Jim Rillie

Brian Hannish

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:11 am

Guest

On Mar 14, 10:03 pm, "Ray M. Owen" <raymo...@juno.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Mar 14, 4:40 pm, Jim Rillie <jimril...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Just wondering if i am in a time warp or waht?

How many out there are still charging stuff at day's end, and going all day on DC?
This has always made sense to me due to many days doing gigs interfacing
with other crews in live venues (iso'd splitters etc.).

AC has been the bane of my existence.

I guess I'm just a DC luddite. (and still hum/buzz- free)

No A/C for me either; I run with Li-Ion NP-1s.

I guess that makes me a DC luddite too.

Ray

Glen I will send you the charging gear specs that I am mentioning if
that is OK? The charger I am looking at is in use with a mixer I know
and it's beautiful. He has put meters on it to monitor, but for the
most part it is set it and forget it. I think there is a
misunderstanding that the charger does not recognize the load
properly. It will not start to "pump 10 -20 amps" into the battery
because you are drawing 5 amps at 12v. It will simply keep the
battery topped up at all times. It won't stay in float charge, but
will probably drop to absorption mode. the charger is looking to see
the state of the battery. If there is a constant load on the battery,
then there will be some constant charging. Depending on the load.
Reading the Meon info, and correct me if I am wrong, It will float the
battery if you are on AC (switches the ac coming in to DC) then if the
AC is disconnected, will switch to the battery. I understand that the
setup I am asking about will NOT do that. I am using the battery
strictly as a 12v source, and using a connected AC line to keep the
battery from working on it's own ( always being charged). If the AC
is disconnected, then I am still on DC regardless, and the gear and
the battery do not know the difference. I may be wrong but I don't
see this as a dangerous strain on the battery, or that the charger
will overcharge. That's why it' s a smart charger, it is
sophisticated enough to understand not to do that.

I hope people do not think I am arguing. Just trying to cover every
solution, and understand the principle technology involved in doing it
safely and having a reliable system. Also, we all know price
sometimes dictates the gear...

Thanks for all the input. Great discussion!

Brian Hanish

Brian Hannish

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:44 am

Guest

On Mar 15, 2:46 pm, Jeff Wexler <j...@jwsound.net> wrote:

Quote:

In article
6227febd-ae8b-412c-a0f4-d0a65e15e...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Brian Hannish <brianhan...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I may be wrong but I don't
see this as a dangerous strain on the battery, or that the charger
will overcharge. That's why it' s a smart charger, it is
sophisticated enough to understand not to do that.

I am sure this works if you say so, it is just that I have never found
any system that uses CHARGING or a battery charger (smart or dumb) that
will safely and quietly (without introducing any noise) operate the
equipment. The MEON I believe is REALLY smart and probably does
accomplish this but I would still be suspicious of any off the shelf
device which is designed to charge a battery. This is why I have built
my own system that does not use any charger or charging circuit (so
there isn't anything that has to be smart) but relies on a constant
regulated DC power supply.

I would like to know what charger you are using since I always like to
know about good battery chargers (for charging the external battery
boxes I have and use off the cart).

Thanks.

- Jeff Wexler

Hey Jeff! Thanks for the input. A Mixer friend of mine is using a
particular charger. I am not at the moment. I am just researching
all the possible ways to do it safely and for how much. I wanted to
find out some of the pitfalls and some of the benefits of doing it
certain ways. I think people are already misunderstanding me. I
never said it would work as good as the meon or better. I am
RESEARCHING and asking for opinions and suggestions. Jeff, do you
have capability of not using AC? Sound like you have AC to DC
converter in a box, then distribution? Do you have batteries on the
cart?

Also Jeff, I never mentioned that the charger would operate the
equipment, The battery does. It is a stable 50HR Battery designed by
Optima. I know a few guys using the Blue top and I was looking also
at the Yellow top. These batteries are AGM, non spilable
(www.optimabatteries.com) Charger is Chargetek (www.chargetek.com)
RTIC 1120 is the model #.

Chargetek to 12v Battery(Yellow top, ) then output to a hot Box

Wow! Lots of info!

Brian

Thanks guys.

Jeff Wexler

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:46 pm

Guest

In article
<6227febd-ae8b-412c-a0f4-d0a65e15e813@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Brian Hannish <brianhanish@hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

I may be wrong but I don't
see this as a dangerous strain on the battery, or that the charger
will overcharge. That's why it' s a smart charger, it is
sophisticated enough to understand not to do that.

I am sure this works if you say so, it is just that I have never found
any system that uses CHARGING or a battery charger (smart or dumb) that
will safely and quietly (without introducing any noise) operate the
equipment. The MEON I believe is REALLY smart and probably does
accomplish this but I would still be suspicious of any off the shelf
device which is designed to charge a battery. This is why I have built
my own system that does not use any charger or charging circuit (so
there isn't anything that has to be smart) but relies on a constant
regulated DC power supply.

I would like to know what charger you are using since I always like to
know about good battery chargers (for charging the external battery
boxes I have and use off the cart).

Thanks.

- Jeff Wexler

Jim Rillie

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:06 pm

Guest

Jeff Wexler wrote:

Quote:

In article
6227febd-ae8b-412c-a0f4-d0a65e15e813@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Brian Hannish <brianhanish@hotmail.com> wrote:

I may be wrong but I don't
see this as a dangerous strain on the battery, or that the charger
will overcharge. That's why it' s a smart charger, it is
sophisticated enough to understand not to do that.

I am sure this works if you say so, it is just that I have never found
any system that uses CHARGING or a battery charger (smart or dumb) that
will safely and quietly (without introducing any noise) operate the
equipment. The MEON I believe is REALLY smart and probably does
accomplish this but I would still be suspicious of any off the shelf
device which is designed to charge a battery. This is why I have built
my own system that does not use any charger or charging circuit (so
there isn't anything that has to be smart) but relies on a constant
regulated DC power supply.

I would like to know what charger you are using since I always like to
know about good battery chargers (for charging the external battery
boxes I have and use off the cart).

Thanks.

- Jeff Wexler

Formy gell cells I use an Interacter charger, which has given me good
charges to low batteries for years, and quite quickly (two hours)

The cells have had a long life generally.

Regards,

jim Rillie

Douglas Tourtelot

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:15 pm

Guest

I have never be able to detect any AC noise in my (almost) always AC powered
rig. 55 Amp Iota charge putting a steady 13.8VDC into my 32Ah cart barrety,
and the cart running strictly off the battery. The AC never touches
anything but the charger. I think people run into issues whan they power
the AC devices on their cart using the AC supply that also charges the
on-board battery. My three AC powered items, the Yamaha 01V96, the Presonus
A/D/A and the Fostex DV824, run off a very nice clean true sine-wave
inverter. The AC powered cart is clean to below the noise floor of the
Op-amps in the devices. Dead quiet.

D.

"Jeff Wexler" <jw@jwsound.net> wrote in message
news:jw-9B6971.11462715032008@news.verizon.net...

Quote:

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