Here's some more detail about the Red camera:

The input 0VU reference is 0dBu (.775V). This is what the manual
claims and a 0dBu tone lines up at the larger curser at the upper
range of the camera's audio meter. There are two problems with this:

1) The line level input is not adjustable
2) Using 0dBu as a 0VU reference only allows 8dB of headroom before
overload distortion. With this in mind, a consumer level of -10dBV
would make more sense because you would then have a professionally
accepted amount of 20dB.

Surely these are mistakes that will be corrected in future revisions.
But until then, there are only two choices that I see:

1) Use an input adapter cable the drops the level 12dB (for a 0dBu
signal) or 16dB (for a +4dBu signal).

0r...

2) Send a mic level from your mixer, select the inputs of the Red
camera to mic level, then adjust the tone to the second curser below
max. From what I could tell, this should give headroom of about 20dB.

More:

Phantom power, when selected, works on the mic inputs. (we had heard
that it was not working)

The 5-pin audio output is a non-standard wiring scheme. The drawing in
the manual in incorrect, but the number chart for the pins is correct.

The line output routing follows the headphone routing. However,
adjusting the headphone volume does not change the line output volume
which seems to be fixed at 0dBu.

Remote Audio is now in the process of making cables for the Red,
including padded line input cables and break-away snakes.

On the "Flow" section of the Trew Audio site, moderated by Skylor
Morgan (http://www.trewaudio.com/audioflow/), there are some more
details. The info in this article has been revising almost daily as
more is learned. If someone notices discrepancies or has additions,
please let Skyor know.

The Red manual is now available on the Trew Audio downloads section.

Regards,

Glen Trew

One more thing...

When giving the Red camera line input a 0dBu tone, the output level is
a very low line level of about 0.4V. When sending a proper level to
allow for 20dB of headroom, the output level will be even lower.
Therefore, when monitoring return through your mixer - an absolute
must if the Red's audio is to be relied upon - it may be difficult to
get the return singal the same as the direct signal in your
headphones.

More reasons to justify double system.

Glen Trew

On Mar 12, 5:05 pm, Gtrew <g...@trewaudio.com> wrote:

Here's some more detail about the Red camera:

The input 0VU reference is 0dBu (.775V). This is what the manual
claims and a 0dBu tone lines up at the larger curser at the upper
range of the camera's audio meter. There are two problems with this:

1) The line level input is not adjustable
2) Using 0dBu as a 0VU reference only allows 8dB of headroom before
overload distortion. With this in mind, a consumer level of -10dBV
would make more sense because you would then have a professionally
accepted amount of 20dB.

Surely these are mistakes that will be corrected in future revisions.
But until then, there are only two choices that I see:

1) Use an input adapter cable the drops the level 12dB (for a 0dBu
signal) or 16dB (for a +4dBu signal).

0r...

2) Send a mic level from your mixer, select the inputs of the Red
camera to mic level, then adjust the tone to the second curser below
max. From what I could tell, this should give headroom of about 20dB.

More:

Phantom power, when selected, works on the mic inputs. (we had heard
that it was not working)

The 5-pin audio output is a non-standard wiring scheme. The drawing in
the manual in incorrect, but the number chart for the pins is correct.

The line output routing follows the headphone routing. However,
adjusting the headphone volume does not change the line output volume
which seems to be fixed at 0dBu.

Remote Audio is now in the process of making cables for the Red,
including padded line input cables and break-away snakes.

On the "Flow" section of the Trew Audio site, moderated by Skylor
Morgan (http://www.trewaudio.com/audioflow/), there are some more
details. The info in this article has been revising almost daily as
more is learned. If someone notices discrepancies or has additions,
please let Skyor know.

The Red manual is now available on the Trew Audio downloads section.

Regards,

Glen Trew

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:05:44 -0400, Philip Perkins wrote
(in article
f24f6091-92a1-4445-a562-f42e64850...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):

This is all pretty much what I've found w/ the Red, except that on the
camera I used I was able to get a good level on the 5 pin return (once
I got it wired up right). The audio metering is very odd (hard to
read, ref level way over on the right with a tiny bit of travel
between ref and clip) and the ballistics are hard to figure out, but
I'm hoping that can be changed in firmware.

Philip Perkins

Philip,

I heard that when the Red cooling fan kicks in during record that it's
extremely noisy. Did you encounter that?

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

This is all pretty much what I've found w/ the Red, except that on the
camera I used I was able to get a good level on the 5 pin return (once
I got it wired up right). The audio metering is very odd (hard to
read, ref level way over on the right with a tiny bit of travel
between ref and clip) and the ballistics are hard to figure out, but
I'm hoping that can be changed in firmware.

Philip Perkins

On Mar 13, 8:19 am, Ty Ford <tyreef...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:05:44 -0400, Philip Perkins wrote
(in article
f24f6091-92a1-4445-a562-f42e64850...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):

This is all pretty much what I've found w/ the Red, except that on the
camera I used I was able to get a good level on the 5 pin return (once
I got it wired up right). The audio metering is very odd (hard to
read, ref level way over on the right with a tiny bit of travel
between ref and clip) and the ballistics are hard to figure out, but
I'm hoping that can be changed in firmware.

Philip Perkins

Philip,

I heard that when the Red cooling fan kicks in during record that it's
extremely noisy. Did you encounter that?

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

Yeah, all the new high-end cameras have fans in them (like F23 etc)
and they are noisy.
The only diffs are how they control them, or allow them to be
controlled. The Red seems to need its cooling fan even when sitting
in a coolish room, and it can really ramp up to a high speed when the
camera is hot. The fan can be held off during takes, but if the take
is long and the camera gets really hot it will come on anyhow, or it
has so far. Andy Wiskes had to resort to hanging bags of frozen
vegetables on a Red to keep the fans off (or low, actually) during a
close-up dialog scene on a warm day. It is a VERY busy box
electronically--without much in the way of venting (like an F23) or
heatsinks.

Philip Perkins

That's what I don't get with all the buzz with the Red. It's like they really
missed something in the design, yet people are still in heat about it.
Regards,

Ty

On Mar 13, 8:19 am, Ty Ford <tyreef...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:05:44 -0400, Philip Perkins wrote
(in article
f24f6091-92a1-4445-a562-f42e64850...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):

This is all pretty much what I've found w/ the Red, except that on the
camera I used I was able to get a good level on the 5 pin return (once
I got it wired up right). The audio metering is very odd (hard to
read, ref level way over on the right with a tiny bit of travel
between ref and clip) and the ballistics are hard to figure out, but
I'm hoping that can be changed in firmware.

Philip Perkins

Philip,

I heard that when the Red cooling fan kicks in during record that it's
extremely noisy. Did you encounter that?

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

Yeah, all the new high-end cameras have fans in them (like F23 etc)
and they are noisy.
The only diffs are how they control them, or allow them to be
controlled. The Red seems to need its cooling fan even when sitting
in a coolish room, and it can really ramp up to a high speed when the
camera is hot. The fan can be held off during takes, but if the take
is long and the camera gets really hot it will come on anyhow, or it
has so far. Andy Wiskes had to resort to hanging bags of frozen
vegetables on a Red to keep the fans off (or low, actually) during a
close-up dialog scene on a warm day. It is a VERY busy box
electronically--without much in the way of venting (like an F23) or
heatsinks.

Philip Perkins
I could sell you a Liquid Nitrogen cooling system upgrade

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:48:41 -0700 (PDT), in
rec.arts.movies.production.sound Philip Perkins <spamiser@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Mar 13, 8:19 am, Ty Ford <tyreef...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:05:44 -0400, Philip Perkins wrote
(in article
f24f6091-92a1-4445-a562-f42e64850...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):

This is all pretty much what I've found w/ the Red, except that on the
camera I used I was able to get a good level on the 5 pin return (once
I got it wired up right). The audio metering is very odd (hard to
read, ref level way over on the right with a tiny bit of travel
between ref and clip) and the ballistics are hard to figure out, but
I'm hoping that can be changed in firmware.

Philip Perkins

Philip,

I heard that when the Red cooling fan kicks in during record that it's
extremely noisy. Did you encounter that?

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

Yeah, all the new high-end cameras have fans in them (like F23 etc)
and they are noisy.
The only diffs are how they control them, or allow them to be
controlled. The Red seems to need its cooling fan even when sitting
in a coolish room, and it can really ramp up to a high speed when the
camera is hot. The fan can be held off during takes, but if the take
is long and the camera gets really hot it will come on anyhow, or it
has so far. Andy Wiskes had to resort to hanging bags of frozen
vegetables on a Red to keep the fans off (or low, actually) during a
close-up dialog scene on a warm day. It is a VERY busy box
electronically--without much in the way of venting (like an F23) or
heatsinks.

Philip Perkins
I could sell you a Liquid Nitrogen cooling system upgrade :)


martin