"RED" The Fire Breathing Camera -- Demystified

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walawala

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:55 pm

Guest

Dear All,

Here we go again off to battle with another new camera never seen and will
not be seen till the first day of shooting this movie..

Armed with the Name, "RED" --- bringing to mind a dragon eating an entire
sound team...

Misinformation abound of software updates and functions, fabled, enabled,
disabled, never cabled connectors fused with the nostrils of a fire
breathing dragon in wait.

Tough times for finding a Dragon Slayer -

I found one in the Hollywood forest,

Slaughtering superstition and the myth surrounding "RED'S" In's and outs.
Today Robert Kennedy (Coffey Sound) physically confronted "RED". Sticking
lemo's, mini XLR's, tri-level sync boxes, Zaxcom stereo adapters, Fusion's,
Deva's, Sound Device's and all the rest. Into the body of the beast...

Robert created a summary of detailed, exact usable parameters and a work
flow for us to use. The Coffey Sound Tech department configured and tested
all the connectors for "RED" and with Robert, summarized the pin outs needed
for interfacing.

Make no doubt about it. The foremost expert on "RED" . "Dragon Slayer" --
Coffey Sound, "Robert Kennedy"...

Kudos and a public thank you to Robert, The Tech department and the guys
and girls at Coffey sound for removing fear and superstition, sleighing
another fire breathing dragon all from two thousand miles away...

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

Scott

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:30 pm

Guest

Quote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:55:41 -0500, "walawala"
notwalaw...@Bellsouth.net> schreef:

Kudos and a public thank you to Robert, The Tech department and the guys
and girls at Coffey sound for removing fear and superstition, sleighing
another fire breathing dragon all from two thousand miles away...

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

Hmmm, nice story, but is there anything people here ( that are 7000,
or 10000 miles away ) should know, that wasn't know before here ?
( like impendance crap, TC drift, pin configs, etc etc )

R

--
E&OE Http://82.95.252.136/

No fancy story from my experiences

Timecode still isnt stable, use a clockit box, the timecode is still
input only and doesnt display the TC until camera goes into record,
for the units that the four TA3 audio connectors are actually
connected to the motherboard the audio sounds terrible for 24b 48k and
overloads if you go over 0, if you can figure out where zero is since
there are no scale meters, camera over heats very easily and there are
no user controls for the cooling fan. It will come on when ever it
needs to, usually when in standby mode but often during record and
sounds like a 747 taking off.

Treat the Red One like a film camera, slate and separate audio
recorder required

Scott

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:10 am

Guest

Quote:

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:30:31 -0800 (PST), Scott <sc...@farroutpro.com
schreef:

the four TA3 audio connectors are actually
connected to the motherboard the audio sounds terrible for 24b 48k and
overloads if you go over 0

Does it have AES in ? ( i would skip the analogue I/O if possible with
any Video cam )

R ( TA3 ?...uh oohhh )

--
E&OE Http://82.95.252.136/

No AES

http://www.red.com/cameras/tech_specs

¤R¼..-¦°€•*¦*b€rt°•

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:16 am

Guest

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:55:41 -0500, "walawala"
<notwalawala@Bellsouth.net> schreef:

Quote:

Kudos and a public thank you to Robert, The Tech department and the guys
and girls at Coffey sound for removing fear and superstition, sleighing
another fire breathing dragon all from two thousand miles away...

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

Hmmm, nice story, but is there anything people here ( that are 7000,
or 10000 miles away ) should know, that wasn't know before here ?
( like impendance crap, TC drift, pin configs, etc etc )

R

--
E&OE Http://82.95.252.136/

¤R¼..-¦°€•*¦*b€rt°•

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:08 am

Guest

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:30:31 -0800 (PST), Scott <scott@farroutpro.com>
schreef:

Quote:

the four TA3 audio connectors are actually
connected to the motherboard the audio sounds terrible for 24b 48k and
overloads if you go over 0

Does it have AES in ? ( i would skip the analogue I/O if possible with
any Video cam )

R ( TA3 ?...uh oohhh )

--
E&OE Http://82.95.252.136/

Philip Perkins

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:43 am

Guest

If you have a shoot coming up with this camera, especially if your
clients want you to record audio on the camera itself, then read thru
the audio section of the Red User forum first. There is a lot of
misinformation and
speculation but there are also some useful info from people using the
camera. Try to get some face time with the camera before you have to
start your job, ie at the rental house etc..

Philip Perkins

Robert Kennedy

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:13 am

Guest

Thank you very much, Ron, for your kind words. As you mentioned, I
plugged in every device I had handy and found a few surprises.
Testing a camera with no meters makes for a challenge, but I managed
to make my own set of meters. I will be posting our results on our
website once they are compiled. In the meantime, give me a call at
Coffey Sound if you know you will be working with a RED One Camera. I
am happy to answer specific questions.
Thanks,
Robert

walawala

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:48 am

Guest

Dear all,

There is more detailed information yet to come on this topic.

Six hours of tests were run specific to our needs and this software version.

Sincerely

Ron

<yepthisismyemail@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:113c8833-f2ec-4ed7-acc9-b0a05b0085b8@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 21, 5:55 pm, "walawala" <notwalaw...@Bellsouth.net> wrote:

Quote:

Dear All,

Here we go again off to battle with another new camera never seen and will
not be seen till the first day of shooting this movie..

Armed with the Name, "RED" --- bringing to mind a dragon eating an entire
sound team...

Misinformation abound of software updates and functions, fabled, enabled,
disabled, never cabled connectors fused with the nostrils of a fire
breathing dragon in wait.

Tough times for finding a Dragon Slayer -

I found one in the Hollywood forest,

Slaughtering superstition and the myth surrounding "RED'S" In's and outs.
Today Robert Kennedy (Coffey Sound) physically confronted "RED". Sticking
lemo's, mini XLR's, tri-level sync boxes, Zaxcom stereo adapters,
Fusion's,
Deva's, Sound Device's and all the rest. Into the body of the beast...

Robert created a summary of detailed, exact usable parameters and a work
flow for us to use. The Coffey Sound Tech department configured and tested
all the connectors for "RED" and with Robert, summarized the pin outs
needed
for interfacing.

Make no doubt about it. The foremost expert on "RED" . "Dragon Slayer" --
Coffey Sound, "Robert Kennedy"...

Kudos and a public thank you to Robert, The Tech department and the guys
and girls at Coffey sound for removing fear and superstition, sleighing
another fire breathing dragon all from two thousand miles away...

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

I'm sure Robert's list is well informed.You or he should post it.
Also when i last worked with it, I considered it a sync camera part of
the day and a MOS camera the rest. It was the loudest camera I have
ever worked with. It made old Arri SR 2's seem quiet. The silent mode
was great at first, (well kind of it made getting any sense of the
room very difficult. ) But soon it started overheating and the fans
stayed on. If they didn't the camera shut off.
Hopefully that has been fixed.
ian

Ty Ford

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:37 am

Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 853 Location: Baltimore, MD

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:10:31 -0500, Scott wrote
(in article
<c8800977-615c-44d6-8920-67212c768379@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):

Quote:

On Feb 22, 1:08 am, ¤R 1/4..-|°EURO**|*b EURO rt°*
~¤..-|-*|-y¤EURO-*~¤¤|*@le*
EURO s.com> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:30:31 -0800 (PST), Scott <sc...@farroutpro.com
schreef:

the four TA3 audio connectors are actually
connected to the motherboard the audio sounds terrible for 24b 48k and
overloads if you go over 0

Does it have AES in ? ( i would skip the analogue I/O if possible with
any Video cam )

R ( TA3 ?...uh oohhh )

--
E&OE Http://82.95.252.136/

No AES

http://www.red.com/cameras/tech_specs

So this is what people lined up to pay $1000 in advance for?

Damn! What a GREAT marketing department.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

oleg kaizerman

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:19 pm

Guest

Yep and they make 5 times more the cantar per day ( 500 per day in Israel
without lenses)
you may ask them revue the camera as you make more noise then the camera
fans
what might be the perfect match

"> So this is what people lined up to pay $1000 in advance for?

Quote:

Damn! What a GREAT marketing department.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

Robert Kennedy

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:32 pm

Guest

Quote:

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:13:01 -0800 (PST), Robert Kennedy
rob...@coffeysound.com> schreef:

Thank you very much, Ron, for your kind words. As you mentioned, I
plugged in every device I had handy and found a few surprises.
Testing a camera with no meters makes for a challenge, but I managed
to make my own set of meters.

.......

I will be posting our results on our
website once they are compiled. In the meantime, give me a call at
Coffey Sound if you know you will be working with a RED One Camera. I
am happy to answer specific questions.

Yep, question, what did you discover we did not know or discovered
from the discussions here in the past about the Red cam ?
Anything ramps need to know ?

thanxs, R

--
E&OE Http://82.95.252.136/

My week is almost over here so I don't have time to summarize
everything, but here's a taste of observations from Build 14:

The RED One can receive 23.98 timecode from the following
manufacturers: Ambient, Denecke, Fostex, Sound Devices and Zaxcom. It
ignores framerates other than 23.98 as far as I can tell. The camera
does not output timecode.

Microphone level inputs are adjustable and preset to an appropriate
level for a -50dB signal, though phantom power was not an option. Set
to line-level, the camera is not adjustable (though it appears to be)
and is fixed at -10dB a.k.a. consumer line-level.

The TA5-male balanced stereo output is set to 0dB and is not
adjustable. The audio output is echoey and sounds identical to the
headphone output.

The proper setting for a Zaxcom RX900S is mic level and also mic level
(adjusted to 24dB) in the Red camera menu.

Thanks,
Robert

¤R¼..-¦°€•*¦*b€rt°•

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:33 pm

Guest

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:13:01 -0800 (PST), Robert Kennedy
<robert@coffeysound.com> schreef:

Quote:

........

Quote:

I will be posting our results on our
website once they are compiled. In the meantime, give me a call at
Coffey Sound if you know you will be working with a RED One Camera. I
am happy to answer specific questions.

Yep, question, what did you discover we did not know or discovered
from the discussions here in the past about the Red cam ?
Anything ramps need to know ?

thanxs, R

--
E&OE Http://82.95.252.136/

S Harber

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:16 am

Guest

Quote:

The RED One can receive 23.98 timecode from the following
manufacturers: Ambient, Denecke, Fostex, Sound Devices and Zaxcom. It
ignores framerates other than 23.98 as far as I can tell. The camera
does not output timecode.

What about video sync from one of these boxes?

I've only treated it as a double system w/ a slate as they were
majorly shaking things out at the time.

Scott Harber

walawala

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:57 pm

Guest

Dear Robert,
Old story new again... In this new error of movie making, Just smoke-- no
mirrors!
Thank you again for the solutions!
"Don't ch miss those days" -- A Nagra 4L, an hour prep and a grand a day.
Very well done -- Slaying "RED"
Great work!
Sincerely
Ron

<SNIP> From Robert Kennedy, Coffey Sound <SNIP>
<SNIP> plugged in every device I had handy and found a few surprises<Snip>
<I will be posting our results on our website once they are compiled.>
<SNIP>The RED One can receive 23.98 timecode from the following
manufacturers: Ambient, Denecke, Fostex, Sound Devices and Zaxcom. It
ignores framerates other than 23.98 as far as I can tell. The camera
does not output timecode.<SNIP>
<Microphone level inputs are adjustable and preset to an appropriate
level for a -50dB signal, though phantom power was not an option. Set
to line-level, the camera is not adjustable (though it appears to be)
and is fixed at -10dB a.k.a. consumer line-level.><SNIP>
<The TA5-male balanced stereo output is set to 0dB and is not
adjustable. The audio output is echoey and sounds identical to the
headphone output.><SNIP>
<The proper setting for a Zaxcom RX900S is mic level and also mic level
(adjusted to 24dB) in the Red camera menu.>
<Robert Kennedy, Coffey Sound>

Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:23 am

On Feb 24, 3:57 pm, "walawala" <notwalaw...@Bellsouth.net> wrote:

Quote:

Dear Robert,
Old story new again... In this new error of movie making, Just smoke-- no
mirrors!
Thank you again for the solutions!
"Don't ch miss those days" -- A Nagra 4L, an hour prep and a grand a day.
Very well done -- Slaying "RED"
Great work!
Sincerely
Ron

SNIP> From Robert Kennedy, Coffey Sound <SNIP
SNIP> plugged in every device I had handy and found a few surprises<Snip
I will be posting our results on our website once they are compiled.
SNIP>The RED One can receive 23.98 timecode from the following
manufacturers: Ambient, Denecke, Fostex, Sound Devices and Zaxcom. It
ignores framerates other than 23.98 as far as I can tell. The camera
does not output timecode.<SNIP
Microphone level inputs are adjustable and preset to an appropriate
level for a -50dB signal, though phantom power was not an option. Set
to line-level, the camera is not adjustable (though it appears to be)
and is fixed at -10dB a.k.a. consumer line-level.><SNIP
The TA5-male balanced stereo output is set to 0dB and is not
adjustable. The audio output is echoey and sounds identical to the
headphone output.><SNIP
The proper setting for a Zaxcom RX900S is mic level and also mic level
(adjusted to 24dB) in the Red camera menu.
Robert Kennedy, Coffey Sound

The RED camera owner had some TA3 cables put together for his RED. I
tried to feed audio into his camera without any good results. It
appeared as though his TA3 inputs were mislabeled and the ones that
were functioning were lopsided in regards to levels.

I've worked with the RED three times now. Treated like a film camera
and recorded audio seperately. When on battery power, it sounds loud
like a hard drive spinning. The fans run while in stand-by mode and
are 'supposed' to shut off in record mode. they actually did shut off
when recording. this made getting room tone a little more difficult
because it requires you to ask the camera op to run the camera for 30
seconds just to eliminate the cooling fans from the mix.

when connected to the power supply, the fans on the power supply sound
like the alien mothership in the process of landing-

the cable connecting the power supply to the camera is currently
fairly short, so there's no way of moving the power supply out of the
room. we threw a sound blanket on top of it for rolling. it seemed to
do the job.

currently, if you ask the operator to swap from battery to a/c, the
camera must be shut down and rebooted. let's hope this changes soon
because if this process takes extra time, odds are your camera dept
won't want to oblige.

my .02

Aron Siegel

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