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| Mitch Farger |
 Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 10:26 pm |
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Haven't seen this message ever posted:
I'm editing on a PC using Premiere. When I'm done I'm going to need to output
to BetaSP or Digibeta, but the I'll need separate tracks of audio to go to
separate channels(M&E to one and dialogue to another).
I'm using the DVstorm 2, but clearly I'll need a separate audio card to export
different channels.
What kind of card would do this? Any recommendations? |
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| Richard Crowley |
| Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 8:30 am |
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"Mitch Farger" wrote ...
Quote: I'm editing on a PC using Premiere. When I'm done I'm
going to need to output to BetaSP or Digibeta, but the I'll
need separate tracks of audio to go to separate channels
(M&E to one and dialogue to another).
I'm using the DVstorm 2, but clearly I'll need a separate
audio card to export different channels.
Why? Are you outputing more than two audio channels?
The Canopus card has 2-channels of audio in and out.
Quote: What kind of card would do this? Any recommendations?
Perhaps it would help to explain why you think you can't
use the audio output that is already there? |
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| Jay Rose CAS |
| Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 9:30 am |
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Quote: I'm editing on a PC using Premiere. When I'm done I'm going to need to output
to BetaSP or Digibeta, but the I'll need separate tracks of audio to go to
separate channels(M&E to one and dialogue to another).
I'm using the DVstorm 2, but clearly I'll need a separate audio card to export
different channels.
What kind of card would do this? Any recommendations?
MOTU and others make external interfaces that'll support as many as 24
simultaneous digital i/o streams plus timecode. The bigger question is
what will Premiere support, and for that you have to ask Adobe. (I use a
MOTU 2408/3 with FCP4, and multitrack output is no problem.)
--
Correct address is spell out the letter j, AT dplaydahtcom
Clio- and Emmy-winning sound design
Learn audio for video at www.dplay.com |
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| shooter |
| Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 1:31 pm |
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"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message news:<109hukdc2if6pb1@corp.supernews.com>...
Quote: "Mitch Farger" wrote ...
I'm editing on a PC using Premiere. When I'm done I'm
going to need to output to BetaSP or Digibeta, but the I'll
need separate tracks of audio to go to separate channels
(M&E to one and dialogue to another).
I'm using the DVstorm 2, but clearly I'll need a separate
audio card to export different channels.
Why? Are you outputing more than two audio channels?
The Canopus card has 2-channels of audio in and out.
What kind of card would do this? Any recommendations?
Perhaps it would help to explain why you think you can't
use the audio output that is already there?
The break out box has rca stereo in and out plus the storm has s-video
for picture. use those and you'll be in good shape. you can't use the
firewire to go to beta. |
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| Mitch Farger |
| Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 7:00 pm |
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Quote: Why? Are you outputing more than two audio channels?
The Canopus card has 2-channels of audio in and out.
When you say channels do you mean what's commonly used for left and right audio
in stereo output?
Perhaps the problem IS how do I get Premiere to export two separate audio
streams out at the same time. |
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| Richard Crowley |
| Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 8:37 pm |
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Quote: Why? Are you outputing more than two audio channels?
The Canopus card has 2-channels of audio in and out.
"Mitch Farger" wrote ...
Quote: When you say channels do you mean what's commonly
used for left and right audio in stereo output?
Yes. Most people use them as "left" and "right" "stereo pair"
However they are completely independent and many people
use one for Dialog and the other for Music/Effects just as you
are proposing.
Quote: Perhaps the problem IS how do I get Premiere to export
two separate audio streams out at the same time.
Still don't understand your question. It will output to the two
channels on the Canopus card. If you have have the Dialog
track "panned" (or assigned) hard left, and the Music/Effects
track(s) "panned"/asssigned hard right that is exactly what
you will get.
Or is your question yet something else you haven't expressed? |
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| Mitch Farger |
| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 9:44 pm |
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Quote: Yes. Most people use them as "left" and "right" "stereo pair"
However they are completely independent and many people
use one for Dialog and the other for Music/Effects just as you
are proposing.
But then I won't be outputting stereo sound, will I? The delivery list I had
for the last film I did stipulated that the final master have "stereo mix on
channels 1 & 2 and separate music and effects on Channels 3 & 4."
So in essense I need 4 tracks of audio. That's really the problem. Sorry I'm
being a little obtuse with my explanation. |
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| G. John Garrett, CAS |
| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:17 pm |
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Mitch Farger wrote:
Quote: Yes. Most people use them as "left" and "right" "stereo pair"
However they are completely independent and many people
use one for Dialog and the other for Music/Effects just as you
are proposing.
But then I won't be outputting stereo sound, will I? The delivery list I had
for the last film I did stipulated that the final master have "stereo mix on
channels 1 & 2 and separate music and effects on Channels 3 & 4."
So in essense I need 4 tracks of audio. That's really the problem. Sorry I'm
being a little obtuse with my explanation.
This sounds like the specification for the release master from post production,
not production dialogue tracks. Maybe I just checked into the thread late, but
I'd say you're reading the wrong spec.
Best,
John |
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| Richard Crowley |
| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:01 pm |
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Guest
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"Mitch Farger" wrote ...
Quote: Yes. Most people use them as "left" and "right" "stereo pair"
However they are completely independent and many people
use one for Dialog and the other for Music/Effects just as you
are proposing.
But then I won't be outputting stereo sound, will I? The delivery
list I had for the last film I did stipulated that the final master have
"stereo mix on channels 1 & 2 and separate music and effects on
Channels 3 & 4."
Why? What are you/they doing with it? Does this mean:
Ch 1 - Full stereo mix Left channel
Ch 2 - Full stereo mix Right channel
Ch 3 - Separate Music & SFX track
Ch 4 - Separate Dialog track
Quote: So in essense I need 4 tracks of audio. That's really the
problem. Sorry I'm being a little obtuse with my explanation.
This was you first mention of 4-channel (or 2 stereo channels?).
If you were working from a written spec, it would have been
helpful to cite/quote it.
It is very difficult to read you mind at this distance.  |
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| Mitch Farger |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 1:33 am |
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Quote: Why? What are you/they doing with it? Does this mean:
Ch 1 - Full stereo mix Left channel
Ch 2 - Full stereo mix Right channel
Ch 3 - Separate Music & SFX track
Ch 4 - Separate Dialog track
Here's the exact thing that's going on. Essentially, I'm on my second feature
film. On my first, I ran into a ton of problems after we signed a contract with
a distributor because I had no way to fill the deliverable list so that they
would have a master. We failed QC(quality control) a number of times, and
finally the distributor agreed to have their lab fix the problems and recoup
the money out of what they were paying us.
So the quotes above are from the actual contract with the distributor. They
stipulate that I'll provide them with a master on either BetaSP or digibeta
with the above stats. I believe they want channel 1 to be Left Channel Dialogue
and 2 to be Right Channel Dialogue, Channel 3 to be Left Channel M&E and
Channel 4 to be Right Channel M&E.
Now that I'm on the second film my editing station is a little better, so I'm
trying to figure out how to save some hassle with the QC.
I ended up simply sending them a BetaSP with Channel 1 and 2 having the full
stereo mix, then I sent them DATS with the dialogue and M&E separate so they
could mix it how they liked. That cost me money. :)
Okay, hopefully I covered everything. |
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| Richard Crowley |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:21 am |
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"Mitch Farger" wrote ...
Quote: I believe they want channel 1 to be Left Channel Dialogue
and 2 to be Right Channel Dialogue, Channel 3 to be Left
Channel M&E and Channel 4 to be Right Channel M&E.
The words "I believe they want..." are greatly troubling.
It feels like you are going nowhere until you either quote
the specs verbatim here, or hire an audio professional to
read and interpert them for you. |
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| Kurt Albershardt |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:45 am |
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Mitch Farger wrote:
Quote:
Here's the exact thing that's going on. Essentially, I'm on my second feature
film. On my first, I ran into a ton of problems after we signed a contract with
a distributor because I had no way to fill the deliverable list so that they
would have a master. We failed QC(quality control) a number of times, and
finally the distributor agreed to have their lab fix the problems and recoup
the money out of what they were paying us.
And they hired you again? |
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| Mitch Farger |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 7:31 pm |
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Quote: The words "I believe they want..." are greatly troubling.
It feels like you are going nowhere until you either quote
Are you coming in halfway into the convo? I quoted the exact words from the
contract, and then was asked what they meant. THEN I said that I believe they
want etc.
<<and
Quote: finally the distributor agreed to have their lab fix the problems and recoup
the money out of what they were paying us.
And they hired you again?>>
You've misunderstood. I'm the filmmaker. No one hires me. I create a film, a
distributor buys it. I'm just trying to figure out a way to export separate
adobe audio tracks to separate channels so my master won't have as much trouble
at QC. |
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| Marc Wielage |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 7:59 pm |
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On Fri, 7 May 2004 18:31:40 -0700, Mitch Farger wrote
(in message <20040507213140.23382.00001018@mb-m14.aol.com>):
Quote: You've misunderstood. I'm the filmmaker. No one hires me. I create a film, a
distributor buys it. I'm just trying to figure out a way to export separate
adobe audio tracks to separate channels so my master won't have as much
trouble at QC.
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------
You need to hire a post supervisor and/or a sound supervisor who knows what
they're doing. That will solve 90% of your problems.
Editors and filmmakers should not be in charge of determining what mix goes
on the final masters going to the distributor. They should worry about
creating the film. Leave the sound details to the pros -- working under your
supervision -- but listen to them when they tell you when you're going wrong.
I also would not try to mix anything with Adobe Premiere. You need to hire a
pro sound mixer who knows what they're doing. It need not cost a fortune;
there are very good companies out there who can work with under low-budget
conditions, and they'll have the ability to make your film sound far better
than anything you could do yourself in Premiere.
In general, 99% of the home video and feature delivery requirements I've ever
seen, at least in the last 10 years, have been as follows:
1) a stereo print master of the Left-total / Right-total English-language mix
(with all sound effects and music, mixed for Dolby Surround)
2) a 5.1 print master of the Left, Center, Right, Surround, and Sub channels
(otherwise identical to above)
3) a stereo M&E Left / M&E right master for foreign use (with all effects
"filled" to compensate for live effects occuring during production sound)
Some studios also ask for an additional track of mono English dialog-only for
the latter, both for referrence and for advertising purposes. A few will ask
for a 6-track, stereo Dialog-only, stereo Music-only, and stereo
Effects-only. And some may also want a 5.1 mix of the M&E tracks without
dialog. I'd say the above three are pretty much the minimum of what they'll
want.
But every studio is different, and the delivery requirements differ radically
depending on the final outcome. Some will accept DA88 (usually with 30fps
NDF timecode); some insist on Dolby SR-encoded 35mm mag; some will accept DAT
(also with timecode). Some may also want optical negatives, but that may be
left up to the specific lab making the prints. Noted mixer/sound supervisor
Larry Blake makes a good case you should have both 35mm mag and digital
copies of all your tracks for a proper archive.
--MFW |
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| Steve King |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 8:17 pm |
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"Mitch Farger" <mitchfarger@aol.comremoveme> wrote in message
news:20040507213140.23382.00001018@mb-m14.aol.com...
Quote: The words "I believe they want..." are greatly troubling.
It feels like you are going nowhere until you either quote
Are you coming in halfway into the convo? I quoted the exact words from
the
contract, and then was asked what they meant. THEN I said that I believe
they
want etc.
and
finally the distributor agreed to have their lab fix the problems and
recoup
the money out of what they were paying us.
And they hired you again?
You've misunderstood. I'm the filmmaker. No one hires me. I create a film,
a
distributor buys it. I'm just trying to figure out a way to export
separate
adobe audio tracks to separate channels so my master won't have as much
trouble
at QC.
Mitch, I've only casually followed the thread, so I may be off base. It
sounds to me as if you need a second sound card, or a different soundcard
that provides the number of output channels your need, four, I believe.
Motu and many others make such cards. I don't know Primiere. Does it have
four audio track capability? If it does, can each track be assigned to a
specific card and channel? In the software I use, I can assign each audio
track to a specific device and channel. Feed those channels to the four
tracks of a BetaSP and your good to go. Or, I've missed something
fundamental, in which case disregard this.
Steve King |
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