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Movies Forum Index » Movie Production (Sound) Forum » PD6 Firewire - problems
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| vinod subramanian |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:39 am |
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Quote: Have you tried another FireWire device in the computer's port? Sometimes
they get fried.
Jay, seems like that is what has happened. 1394 controller chip on my
Gigabyte motherboard is fried, so is my Freecom external Hard Drive
and i suspect - the 1394 on the PD6 as well.
I don't know how that happened, since I am very aware & organised
about these kind of things and will never bypass usual procedures.
Now, since the PD6 can't get connected to a PC till it is fixed, I
will have to do a real-time AES or analog dump from it. Here is
another big problem, the PD6 cannot play back a whole DVD-RAM disk
like a DAT tape. I will have to individually select each and every
file that is on the disk individually and hit 'Play'. This means each
and every take of every shot will require personal attention (hit EDL
sel key, turn knob to select next file, push knob to select, wait for
disk to read and get ready to play, finally hit Play after starting
the Rec on the other machine). Effectively the transfer will probably
take as much time as i took to do the recording! Imagine transferring
a day's work (60-70 takes) this way...
If the Firewire port in general is susceptible to such damage I feel
it is not the most reliable method of getting data out of the PD6 and
into a PC/Mac. Maybe USB 2.0 is better and more universal. Or simply
an ethernet!
regards
-vin
Bombay, India |
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| Rob€rto |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:53 am |
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On 9 Apr 2004 23:39:48 -0700, vinod@soundtrane.com (vinod subramanian)
wrote:
Quote: Have you tried another FireWire device in the computer's port? Sometimes
they get fried.
Jay, seems like that is what has happened. 1394 controller chip on my
Gigabyte motherboard is fried, so is my Freecom external Hard Drive
and i suspect - the 1394 on the PD6 as well.
Hmm, i doubt that. The PD6 FW port is a 4 pins, i think you will have
to do a lot of nasty things to get that one fried.
Did you try to connect other gear to these ports to check ?
FW busses can hang rather fast, and resets ( hard ) most of the time
cure it.
I assume you have all the DVD RAM drivers and such installed on your
PC/mac ?
R
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html |
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| Jay Hartigan |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:18 am |
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Vinod,
I agree with Roberto, I really doubt there is anything wrong with the
firewire port in the PD6, however there certainally are problems with your
computers. One complaint I have with the firewire system in general and
Windows XP is that every time I connect and disconnect, Windows must be
restarted to connect again. That is... once a connection has been made and
disconected, the computer will not see the external drive until the OS has
been restarted.
I know Masaki has been working with you on this problem. Here's what he
told me about your problem..."So far, I suggested various different thing
for him to try, such
as changing the order of booting up, enabling IEEE1394 setting,
physical cable connection, but to no avail.
We, in the US, have never experienced any electrical fault on the
PD6 Firewire circuitry. We only had one machine came back but
it was that the customer broke the Firewire connector physically.
The PD6 does not have self diagnosis for Firewire function,
which I explained this to him.
When you set 1394 enabled on the Utility menu, what
the PD6 does is; it will completely disengage its own
DVD-RAM drive from the internal CPU and dedicate it
to a host computer. It will now behave like an external
storage device. The PD6 in IEEE1394 mode, it will become
totally passive that there is no internal communication
available between the DVD drive and its main CPU. "
Hopefully your dealer can get you another machine to use. Also if you need
a player, can you borrow a DV-40 from this same dealer? This is really the
best way to play files as audio.
Good luck,
Jay |
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| vinod subramanian |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:43 am |
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roberto,
i checked the motherbaord myself, in fact i had built this machine.
the 1394 controller chip is fried. the external HD is being replaced
under warranty - i am getting the new one today. they reported a 1394
firewire port short-circuit.
Quote: Did you try to connect other gear to these ports to check ?
when i inspected the motherboard and found the fried chip, i did not
bother to fry other gear by trying to hook it up to this!
secondly the PD6 would not work on another PC with a new firewire PCI
card either, and nor on a new Mac G5.
Quote: FW busses can hang rather fast, and resets ( hard ) most of the time
cure it.
tried that, and didn't work.
Quote:
I assume you have all the DVD RAM drivers and such installed on your
PC/mac ?
yes, i got the Instant CD/DVD package and installed the Instantwrite
part of the software on both PCs.
-vin |
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| Rob€rto |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:32 pm |
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On 10 Apr 2004 09:43:49 -0700, vinod@soundtrane.com (vinod
subramanian) wrote:
Quote: roberto,
i checked the motherbaord myself, in fact i had built this machine.
the 1394 controller chip is fried. the external HD is being replaced
under warranty - i am getting the new one today. they reported a 1394
firewire port short-circuit.
Nothing to add :-)
Quote: I assume you have all the DVD RAM drivers and such installed on your
PC/mac ?
yes, i got the Instant CD/DVD package and installed the Instantwrite
part of the software on both PCs.
I also needed to install DVD RAM drivers on my XP machines, you also
have these ?
R
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html |
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| vinod subramanian |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:30 pm |
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Hi Jay
Quote: I agree with Roberto, I really doubt there is anything wrong with the
firewire port in the PD6, however there certainally are problems with your
computers. One complaint I have with the firewire system in general and
Windows XP is that every time I connect and disconnect, Windows must be
restarted to connect again. That is... once a connection has been made and
disconected, the computer will not see the external drive until the OS has
been restarted.
Jay, I am very sure it is a problem with the firewire. I have had a
motherboard and an external hard drive fry at the same time when the
PD6 was also connected. I have also tried connecting the PD6 to other
computers with the required instantwrite software loaded, and the same
result - no PD6.
Quote: I know Masaki has been working with you on this problem. Here's what he
told me about your problem..."So far, I suggested various different thing
for him to try, such
as changing the order of booting up, enabling IEEE1394 setting,
physical cable connection, but to no avail.
We, in the US, have never experienced any electrical fault on the
PD6 Firewire circuitry. We only had one machine came back but
it was that the customer broke the Firewire connector physically.
The PD6 does not have self diagnosis for Firewire function,
which I explained this to him.
When you set 1394 enabled on the Utility menu, what
the PD6 does is; it will completely disengage its own
DVD-RAM drive from the internal CPU and dedicate it
to a host computer. It will now behave like an external
storage device. The PD6 in IEEE1394 mode, it will become
totally passive that there is no internal communication
available between the DVD drive and its main CPU. "
masaki has been very helpful, and I have done everything that he has
suggested, but to no avail. :-)
Quote: Hopefully your dealer can get you another machine to use. Also if you need
a player, can you borrow a DV-40 from this same dealer? This is really the
best way to play files as audio.
unfortunately, while this is the first PD6 in India, there is no DV40
available here yet. I am sure there is no PD6 with him that I can use
either.
regards
-vin |
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| vinod subramanian |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:41 pm |
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I still strongly believe that a recording device should also play back
multitrack audio as easily and flexibly as it records the audio, both
analog and digital. Why else would the PD6 have 6 audio out XLRs? All
that real estate could have been used somewhere else, or the machine
could have just been lighter and smaller. And why have even AES/EBU or
SPDIF out too, if it was just to xfer the material? (Ok, ok, one needs
to give the option of a backup. But a backup recording device can also
get it's source from the mixer.)
I don't think there is any excuse for the PD6 not being able to
playback an entire DVD-RAM like a tape. Moreover, relying on -one-
output - the IEEE1394 (firewire) port for xfer is suicidal, just as in
my case. I guess having another option like a USB or Gigabit ethernet
should not be much trouble. The data is already on a disc written in
UDF, except that it is a DVDRAM disc. I am aware that soon, all CD/DVD
writers will also read DVDRAM, as some already do...
I fully understand and appreciate the advantages of having a
multi-track recorder - any one for that matter. The ability to have
discrete tracks for each source is great and provides for great
flexibility in post. I also appreciate the ability of these 'new-age'
devices to integrate production processes with post in a much better
way than before.
If my posts reek of frustration with dealing with a fried firewire
port on my new PC, hard drive and probably the new PD6 too, it is not
really that. It is more the absurdity I have to face in the event that
the firewire port fails.
I am not into machine/company/whatever - bashing. I am merely and
simply an end-user. I don't have many options here in India (as of
now), and whatever I have, I would like it to work well enough for me
to get the job done efficitently. I am not interested in frills,
thrills and whatever else.
-vin |
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| Matt Mayer |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:54 pm |
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Vinod,
Have you tried procuring a PC DVD-RAM drive?
While they aren't that common, I think your time and frustration is
worth more than what the drive would cost. Get a 5.25 external firewire
enclosure for it and you could hook it up to any computer that you
could have hooked up the PD-6.
I agree with you about the PD-6 FW interfacce, I found it to be clunky
at best. Worked pretty well with my WinME laptop, but I never could get
it going with the Instant DVD software on my XP desktop.
Good luck,
---Matt
Chicago, IL
vinod subramanian wrote:
Quote: I still strongly believe that a recording device should also play back
multitrack audio as easily and flexibly as it records the audio, both
analog and digital. Why else would the PD6 have 6 audio out XLRs? All
that real estate could have been used somewhere else, or the machine
could have just been lighter and smaller. And why have even AES/EBU or
SPDIF out too, if it was just to xfer the material? (Ok, ok, one needs
to give the option of a backup. But a backup recording device can also
get it's source from the mixer.)
I don't think there is any excuse for the PD6 not being able to
playback an entire DVD-RAM like a tape. Moreover, relying on -one-
output - the IEEE1394 (firewire) port for xfer is suicidal, just as in
my case. I guess having another option like a USB or Gigabit ethernet
should not be much trouble. The data is already on a disc written in
UDF, except that it is a DVDRAM disc. I am aware that soon, all CD/DVD
writers will also read DVDRAM, as some already do...
I fully understand and appreciate the advantages of having a
multi-track recorder - any one for that matter. The ability to have
discrete tracks for each source is great and provides for great
flexibility in post. I also appreciate the ability of these 'new-age'
devices to integrate production processes with post in a much better
way than before.
If my posts reek of frustration with dealing with a fried firewire
port on my new PC, hard drive and probably the new PD6 too, it is not
really that. It is more the absurdity I have to face in the event that
the firewire port fails.
I am not into machine/company/whatever - bashing. I am merely and
simply an end-user. I don't have many options here in India (as of
now), and whatever I have, I would like it to work well enough for me
to get the job done efficitently. I am not interested in frills,
thrills and whatever else.
-vin |
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| William Sarokin |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:29 pm |
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"Rob?rto" <Immer@Olijk.com> wrote in message
Quote: I also needed to install DVD RAM drivers on my XP machines, you also
have these ?
XP includes a DVD/RAM driver. My XP recognizes my Panasonic LF-D201 drive
and will read and write to it. The one caveat is that it won't recognize
Deva 2, FAT 16 disks. I had to load an older version of 'Write DVD' inorder
to read my Deav DVD's with an XP PC.
Billy |
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| vinod subramanian |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:09 pm |
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Hi Matt
Quote: Have you tried procuring a PC DVD-RAM drive?
yes, i did. it is very expensive because it will be an one-off import.
in any case, i am waiting to get the PD6 to some service place and get
it checked and fixed.
-vin |
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| vinod subramanian |
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:20 pm |
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Quote: Nothing to add
good, any more of my hardware fried and it would be really worse than
it already is. ;-)
Quote: I also needed to install DVD RAM drivers on my XP machines, you also
have these ?
well, Fostex suggests the instantwrite part of the software to be
installed. I did that and the PD6 was recognised. a couple of days
later this thing happens. So I am very sure the problem is not with
any software, in fact i have physically inspected the motherboard and
found the 1394 controller chip to be fried.
-vin |
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| Rob€rto |
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:37 am |
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Guest
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:29:47 GMT, "William Sarokin"
<bigmaho@verizon.net> wrote:
Quote:
XP includes a DVD/RAM driver. My XP recognizes my Panasonic LF-D201 drive
and will read and write to it. The one caveat is that it won't recognize
Deva 2, FAT 16 disks. I had to load an older version of 'Write DVD' inorder
to read my Deav DVD's with an XP PC.
Not here. I have a Panasonic DVD RAM -R RW and a LG DVD RAM -/+ R RW
and both needed a DVD RAM driver from the installation CD ROM.
System is XP pro, all packs and updates.
R
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html |
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| Rob€rto |
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:47 am |
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Guest
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On 10 Apr 2004 13:41:07 -0700, vinod@soundtrane.com (vinod
subramanian) wrote:
Quote: I don't think there is any excuse for the PD6 not being able to
playback an entire DVD-RAM like a tape.
Well the cantar also did not have that in the beginning, only after
requests from customers this came in the software-updates.
So, don;t be surprised if next month the next firmware will have this
option. ( to late, i know )
Quote: Moreover, relying on -one-
output - the IEEE1394 (firewire) port for xfer is suicidal, just as in
my case. I guess having another option like a USB or Gigabit ethernet
should not be much trouble. The data is already on a disc written in
UDF, except that it is a DVDRAM disc. I am aware that soon, all CD/DVD
writers will also read DVDRAM, as some already do...
You can buy dvd ram readers here for 70 Euro, i would defenitly get
one of these if you use a PD6.
About the USB2 for data, i'm not that into the specs, but i know that
USB is far more power & CPU hungry then FW.
But USB is also giving me much less problems then FW, thats true.
Quote: I am not into machine/company/whatever - bashing. I am merely and
simply an end-user. I don't have many options here in India (as of
now), and whatever I have, I would like it to work well enough for me
to get the job done efficitently. I am not interested in frills,
thrills and whatever else.
Wait till you leave the Phantom on channel X, and connect that direct
to some insert/output of a mixer....goodbye channel output :-)
R ( sometimes things do get fried )
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html |
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| vinod subramanian |
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:56 am |
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Quote: Well the cantar also did not have that in the beginning, only after
requests from customers this came in the software-updates.
So, don;t be surprised if next month the next firmware will have this
option. ( to late, i know )
hey,that's heartening to know more than one machine does/did not have
this facility. ;)
Quote: You can buy dvd ram readers here for 70 Euro, i would defenitly get
one of these if you use a PD6.
well, if it is only 70 euro, i am definitely getting one.
Quote: About the USB2 for data, i'm not that into the specs, but i know that
USB is far more power & CPU hungry then FW.
But USB is also giving me much less problems then FW, thats true.
i'm not so sure about the characteristics of the USB -vs- 1394. It
just seemed like another option that is common enough.
Quote: R ( sometimes things do get fried )
you're so right. shit happens.. 
-vin |
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| Rob€rto |
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:17 am |
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On 11 Apr 2004 06:56:42 -0700, vinod@soundtrane.com (vinod
subramanian) wrote:
Quote: You can buy dvd ram readers here for 70 Euro, i would defenitly get
one of these if you use a PD6.
well, if it is only 70 euro, i am definitely getting one.
Yep, here in Holland you find the Panasonic/Mashita DVD RAM SW-9581 in
the sale for 70 euro ex vat. These recorders are dumped, so if you
want me to send you one, just mention it.
i think UPS will be almost more expensive than the actual burner
itself :-)
Is the PD6 yours ?
R
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html |
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