i saw the original 1945 version of big sleep tonight. glorious flick
with a very cool bogart, a sleek and sexy bacall, with crisp dialogue,
and minimum violence with maximum impact. stylish movie, cynical but
romantic, stark but gorgeous.

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

Even Raymond Chandler did not know who killed Sean Regan!

"gayboy" <homonohana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f99ae2ad.0403030017.63080893@posting.google.com...
i saw the original 1945 version of big sleep tonight. glorious flick
with a very cool bogart, a sleek and sexy bacall, with crisp dialogue,
and minimum violence with maximum impact. stylish movie, cynical but
romantic, stark but gorgeous.

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

i saw the original 1945 version of big sleep tonight. glorious flick
with a very cool bogart, a sleek and sexy bacall, with crisp dialogue,
and minimum violence with maximum impact. stylish movie, cynical but
romantic, stark but gorgeous.

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:24:52 +0000 (UTC), "Mike O'sullivan"
mike.osullivan3@nowhere.com> wrote:

Even Raymond Chandler did not know who killed Sean Regan!


Chandler knew very well who killed Sean Reagan. You're confusing
that
with who killed Owen, the chauffeur.

John Harkness

In article <f99ae2ad.0403030017.63080893@posting.google.com>,
homonohana@hotmail.com (gayboy) wrote:

i saw the original 1945 version of big sleep tonight. glorious
flick
with a very cool bogart, a sleek and sexy bacall, with crisp
dialogue,
and minimum violence with maximum impact. stylish movie, cynical
but
romantic, stark but gorgeous.

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the
hell
was going on?

The plot's a little clearer when you see the original version,
before
they revamped it to make the Bogey/Bacall romance more prominant.

snip

Steven

Even Raymond Chandler did not know who killed Sean Regan!

"gayboy" <homonohana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f99ae2ad.0403030017.63080893@posting.google.com...
i saw the original 1945 version of big sleep tonight. glorious flick
with a very cool bogart, a sleek and sexy bacall, with crisp dialogue,
and minimum violence with maximum impact. stylish movie, cynical but
romantic, stark but gorgeous.

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

In article <f99ae2ad.0403030017.63080893@posting.google.com>,
homonohana@hotmail.com (gayboy) wrote:

i saw the original 1945 version of big sleep tonight. glorious flick
with a very cool bogart, a sleek and sexy bacall, with crisp dialogue,
and minimum violence with maximum impact. stylish movie, cynical but
romantic, stark but gorgeous.

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

The plot's a little clearer when you see the original version, before
they revamped it to make the Bogey/Bacall romance more prominant.

Carmen's a heroin addict; she gets high with a supplier named Geiger,
who does the whole 'respectable' thing but is actually involved in a lot
of shady dealings, including blackmail. Sean Regan, the Sternwood's
butler, is a generally nice guy who looks out for her, to the extent
he's able, and when another bad guy (Joe Brody) asked for $5K in hush
money, he paid him off per the General's intructions. Afterward,
though, he tried to 'take care of it' more directly, ad managed to get
killed for his troubles. Geiger and Brody both work for the same head
criminal, Eddie Mars, who owns a gambling house, etc, and most likely he
(or his henchman, Kenino) actually pulled the trigger. He then
concocted the story about Regan and his wife running off together to
cover Sean's disappearance.

Carmen's still getting high and Geiger knows about Brody's previous
blackmail (and that it worked quite well), so he tries it himself,
getting Carment to sign notes while she's high and sending them to
General Sternwood for payment. Sternwood hires Marlow, and he film
begins.

Geiger, not having been paid as quickly and easily as Brody had been,
stages a party where he's going to get incriminating photos of Carmen,
but Owen Taylor - the Sternwood family driver - follows her to the house
and interrupts the proceedings. Geiger ends up dead, Taylor runs off in
a panic (but takes the incriminating film with him), and Brody, who'd
been watching Geiger because there's obviously a power struggle between
the two, follows Taylor, gets back the film, and kills him. He and his
partner Agnes, and a couple of other minor players, try to get he money
from Vivian instead of the General because they think she'll be a softer
touch, and all the while Eddie Mars is trying to make sure none of it
comes back around to him. The way it's going to get back to him is if
someone can track down his wife and show that she's not off somewhere
with Regan, so when she and Kenino are spotted by Agnes and Jones (and
Kenino sees the two of them as well), Kenino acts to plug up the leak -
killing Jones and planning to kill Agnes. Jones dies to protect Agnes.

Meanwhile, Vivian is working to keep Marlow from finding out the truth
about Carmen (she doesn't trust him), knowing that Mars' wife didn't
actually run off with Regan but having been convinced that Carmen is
somehow to blame for Regan's death and/or disappearance. Up until the
scene in the house behind the garage, she believes that Mars is a
basically good guy and isn't connected with either Brody or Geiger.

i saw the original 1945 version of big sleep tonight. glorious flick
with a very cool bogart, a sleek and sexy bacall, with crisp dialogue,
and minimum violence with maximum impact. stylish movie, cynical but
romantic, stark but gorgeous.

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

That's true but all the explanations slow down the action considerably
and that scene in Bogart's office where Bacall wears a bizarre outfit
with a hideous veil covering her face!! Bacall's agent complained
(rightly) about it and insisted it be reshot. Confusing as it
sometimes is I much prefer the second version.

In article <f99ae2ad.0403030017.63080893@posting.google.com>,
homonohana@hotmail.com (gayboy) wrote:

i saw the original 1945 version of big sleep tonight. glorious flick
with a very cool bogart, a sleek and sexy bacall, with crisp dialogue,
and minimum violence with maximum impact. stylish movie, cynical but
romantic, stark but gorgeous.

but, i can't make heads or tails out of the plot. what in the hell
was going on?

The plot's a little clearer when you see the original version, before
they revamped it to make the Bogey/Bacall romance more prominant.

Carmen's a heroin addict; she gets high with a supplier named Geiger,
who does the whole 'respectable' thing but is actually involved in a lot
of shady dealings, including blackmail. Sean Regan, the Sternwood's
butler, is a generally nice guy who looks out for her, to the extent
he's able, and when another bad guy (Joe Brody) asked for $5K in hush
money, he paid him off per the General's intructions. Afterward,
though, he tried to 'take care of it' more directly, ad managed to get
killed for his troubles. Geiger and Brody both work for the same head
criminal, Eddie Mars, who owns a gambling house, etc, and most likely he
(or his henchman, Kenino) actually pulled the trigger. He then
concocted the story about Regan and his wife running off together to
cover Sean's disappearance.

Carmen's still getting high and Geiger knows about Brody's previous
blackmail (and that it worked quite well), so he tries it himself,
getting Carment to sign notes while she's high and sending them to
General Sternwood for payment. Sternwood hires Marlow, and he film
begins.

Geiger, not having been paid as quickly and easily as Brody had been,
stages a party where he's going to get incriminating photos of Carmen,
but Owen Taylor - the Sternwood family driver - follows her to the house
and interrupts the proceedings. Geiger ends up dead, Taylor runs off in
a panic (but takes the incriminating film with him), and Brody, who'd
been watching Geiger because there's obviously a power struggle between
the two, follows Taylor, gets back the film, and kills him. He and his
partner Agnes, and a couple of other minor players, try to get he money
from Vivian instead of the General because they think she'll be a softer
touch, and all the while Eddie Mars is trying to make sure none of it
comes back around to him. The way it's going to get back to him is if
someone can track down his wife and show that she's not off somewhere
with Regan, so when she and Kenino are spotted by Agnes and Jones (and
Kenino sees the two of them as well), Kenino acts to plug up the leak -
killing Jones and planning to kill Agnes. Jones dies to protect Agnes.

Meanwhile, Vivian is working to keep Marlow from finding out the truth
about Carmen (she doesn't trust him), knowing that Mars' wife didn't
actually run off with Regan but having been convinced that Carmen is
somehow to blame for Regan's death and/or disappearance. Up until the
scene in the house behind the garage, she believes that Mars is a
basically good guy and isn't connected with either Brody or Geiger.

Almost right - Sean Regan, an ex-bootlegger and IRA officer, was
Vivian's husband, who'd gone missing some time before the film begins.
Canino didn't kill Regan - Carmen did. Mars hushed it up for Vivian,
who was the real pay-off. As for the death of the chauffeur in the
movie version - Chandler was getting a little tired of being
questioned repeatedly by the Studio about plot details, and his answer
was meant as a wisecrack. Hawks was right, tho - streamlining the plot
made for a better paced film.

The movie is a complete mess because the Production Code forced much
of the plot to be excised (for example Carmen Sternwood was involved
in a pornography ring and was naked when Marlowe found her) or mangled
beyond recognition. It really makes no sense, so you might as well
just read the book, which is fairly clear (although Chandler did
famously reply that he had no idea who killed one of the minor
characters--he was not involved in the screenplay because he was under
contract to another studio).

Bogart is THE Phillip Marlowe, however, and it's worth watching just
for that. Good 40s film noir, just don't try to understand what's
going on. You can't. The pre-release cut of the film (included on
the DVD) is a tad clearer but only a tad.