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Movies Forum Index » Movie Production (Sound) Forum » mic'ing suits
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| Nick |
 Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:07 pm |
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when hiding a lav on men wearing suits, where have you had the most success
placing the mic? |
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| Charles Tomaras |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 1:28 am |
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"Nick" <none@none.com> wrote in message news:2g0jtiF31o2aU1@uni-berlin.de...
Quote:
when hiding a lav on men wearing suits, where have you had the most
success
placing the mic?
In the knot of the tie. Countryman B-6's work great for this and you can
easily pull them through even a tightly tied knot by using a crochet hook.
Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA |
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| John B., Indianapolis |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:19 am |
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Nick,
If it's in the open, then anywhere on the lapel is fair game. If it's
hidden, inside the tie knot, aiming downward with the head just poking
out -- we're talking a lav shaped like the Sennheiser or the Sanken.
Make sure the knot is tight enough you don't have rubbing. Also, it can
be a bit bassy there so a tad of low end rolloff may be called for.
John B., Indianapolis
Nick wrote:
Quote: when hiding a lav on men wearing suits, where have you had the most success
placing the mic?
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| Eric Toline |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:48 am |
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If you're using the Countryman B6 lav mic you can have it just poke
through the fake button hole in the left lapel.
You'll figure out how to hide the cable under the collar and then over
the top at the back and to the xmtr.
Eric |
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| Brad Harper |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 1:18 pm |
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DPA 4060 or Sanken COS11 in tie knot pointed down. DPA makes a kit with top
stick and a tie knot piece of foam, but I have better luck with nothing
except the pressure of the knot to hold the mic in place.
Brad Harper |
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| Adam D. Sperry |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 1:37 pm |
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If you have lavs with larger capsules, use 'sticky triangles' to
sandwich it in the lapel of the suitcoat, or in the collar of the
shirt. Check your placement to make sure you don't have any dead
spots or drops in volume and the subject moves around. |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 1:42 pm |
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Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I've tried the knot of the tie with both a
B6 and a COS-11. I guess the problem I've been having is the "acoustic
noise" of particular tie, jacket and starched shirt combinations rubbing
together. The starched shirts have been especially brutal lately. As Eric
suggested, I have put the mic head poking out from the fake button hole in
the left lapel with better results but even then with that placement some
suits seem a lot noisier then others. Does stuff like static guard help any
of this? In one case I ended up running a B6 along the guys glasses frame
because I just could not find a quiet place on the suit anywhere. It was
pretty frustrating. I hate lavs. |
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| Eric Toline |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 3:07 pm |
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Re: mic'ing suits
Group: rec.arts.movies.production.sound Date: Fri, May 7, 2004, 12:42pm
(EDT-3) From: none@none.com (Nick)
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I've tried the knot of the tie with
both a B6 and a COS-11. I guess the problem I've been having is the
"acoustic noise" of particular tie, jacket and starched shirt
combinations rubbing together.
The starched shirts have been especially brutal lately.
As Eric suggested, I have put the mic head poking out from the fake
button hole in the left lapel with better results but even then with
that placement some suits seem a lot noisier then others.
Does stuff like static guard help any of this? In one case I ended up
running a B6 along the guys glasses frame because I just could not find
a quiet place on the suit anywhere. It was pretty frustrating. I hate
lavs. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
When all else seems to fail and you can, try doing a hair placement of
the B6 just behind the front of the hairline.
Eric |
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| Noah Timan |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:16 pm |
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Hey Nick,
Static guard may help a little, but as you have correctly deduced,
most of the time the major issue isn't static but actual acoustic
noise of fabrics rubbing together, which will make tracks unusable no
matter how cleverly you mount the microphone.
I've personally found the knot trick to be a lifesaver in some
instances and utterly useless in others. The two deciding factors are
the make of the tie and how tightly the knot is tied. I've found that
a very loose knot in a silk tie will render this technique pointless.
Even if you tape the mic down properly, the glossed silk fabric
surfaces in that loose knot will move against one another to such a
degree that you won't be happy. If the knot is loose in a cotton tie,
you'll probably be okay. Alternately, if the knot is very tight even
in a noisy silk tie, it won't tend to move much and you can usually
get away with it.
Starch should always be avoided. Most wardrobe supes know this.
Mentioning it in preproduction, or whatever you have that passes for
prepro, can't hurt any. If you show up on set and the shirt is
starched, a little spray of water and a thumb to rub it in the area
you are miking will be better than not (hair and makeup usually has a
spritzer you can borrow), but you're still stuck with the rest of that
starched shirt rubbing noisily against the coat, actor's body, etc.
Clever use of topstick can reduce the effect somewhat, but reducing it
enough to kill the problem completely is another matter entirely, and
much rarer to come by.
Suits can often be difficult, and it's usually just a matter of
determining which component of the suit is the most friendly and going
there with the mic. It's rarely, in my experience, a
one-trick-fits-all situation. There are several games you can play
with ties (in the knot, poking out, behind the knot, taping the tie
against the body), jackets (buttonholes, folds, etc), and shirts
(double-stitched pockets) -- each has different degrees of success
based upon starch, fabric type, and microphone.
Good luck!
Regards,
Noah Timan
(working email is my name at earth link)
"Nick" <none@none.com> wrote in message news:<2g275eF3ogk0U1@uni-berlin.de>...
Quote: Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I've tried the knot of the tie with both a
B6 and a COS-11. I guess the problem I've been having is the "acoustic
noise" of particular tie, jacket and starched shirt combinations rubbing
together. The starched shirts have been especially brutal lately. As Eric
suggested, I have put the mic head poking out from the fake button hole in
the left lapel with better results but even then with that placement some
suits seem a lot noisier then others. Does stuff like static guard help any
of this? In one case I ended up running a B6 along the guys glasses frame
because I just could not find a quiet place on the suit anywhere. It was
pretty frustrating. I hate lavs. |
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| shooter |
| Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:20 pm |
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the movement of the clothing independently of each other is the source
of the noise so try to eliminate that. double faced tape between lapel
and shirt, double face tape between tie and shirt, etc. Loose fitting
clothes helps a lot. if the suit is too tight it makes for trouble. if
the shirt is too tight around the neck you can get the scratching
sound of the collar. make the guy go out and loose 15 lbs! |
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| Courtney Goodin |
| Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:30 pm |
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I have had pretty good luck with Trim or Tram mics in Vampire Clips inside
the tie. (not in the knot)
I take the Tram with the mic face to the inside of the clip, then cut the
small stitch that holds the tie together in the back, (while it is already
tied on the actor) I then snake the mic in vampire clip up inside the the
tie between the outer silk layer and the stiffener (white mesh bukram) that
is inside most ties. I position it about 2 inches below the knot, pulling
down to seat the fangs of the clip to the internal stiffener fabric. I then
put an "S" curve in the cable as it emerges from the back of the tie and pin
it back together. This placement allows the mic to be protected from wind by
the single layer of silk, remain invisible, and since the 2 layers of the
tie move together, there is very little clothing noise. Also since just 1
layer of silk is between the mic and the air there is no muffeling of the
sound like that caused by going behind the tie or in the knot where you are
in the acoustical shadow of the chin.. Of course you have to select a
position that will not be hit by the lapels of the jacket.
Just make sure the Tie is a piece of wardrobe or get permission from the
owner of the tie before you cut the stitch on the back.
It can be easily restored to normal with a needle and thread after the
shoot.
I was on a Honda shoot once, and was told there was an actor/spokesman to
deliver all the dialogue. I had already talked to wardrobe about the tie and
they said "no problem". On the first day they sent a guy over and told me
to wire him up for the shot. I cut the stitch in the tie and placed the lav
inside like I usually do. Did the first shot and every thing went great.
Then they said O.K. you can un-wire him now. It was only then that I
discovered that this guy was not our Actor but was the President of Honda
Motor company and I had just cut up his favorite $200 Tie. Opppps....
---Courtney |
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| Philip Perkins |
| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:03 am |
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I wish ties would go out of fashion.
In a situation where you have no wardrobe control (docs etc)
some times the only thing to do is use as small a mic as you can (B6
etc)
and attach it to the FRONT of the tie, and figure that it will get
lost in the pattern
of a darkish tie a lot of the time. Sometimes the arguement I make
(you'll like this) is that in a doc we are likely to be HEARING this
guy
about 5 times longer than we'll be SEEING him, so work with me a
little.
I try to mount the mic low enough that they can still have a clean
head and shoulders shot.
Philip Perkins CAS |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:02 pm |
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"Philip Perkins" <spamiser@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: I wish ties would go out of fashion.
In a situation where you have no wardrobe control (docs etc)
some times the only thing to do is use as small a mic as you can (B6
etc)
and attach it to the FRONT of the tie, and figure that it will get
lost in the pattern
of a darkish tie a lot of the time. Sometimes the arguement I make
(you'll like this) is that in a doc we are likely to be HEARING this
guy
about 5 times longer than we'll be SEEING him, so work with me a
little.
I try to mount the mic low enough that they can still have a clean
head and shoulders shot.
Philip Perkins CAS
"Hiding" the mic in plain sight is what I reverted to in the worst cases.
It's a good compromise when you have no control over wardrobe, as was the
case on the ultra frustrating job that prompted me to make this post in the
first place. One corporate suit after another. Ugh. Thanks everyone for the
replies. the fat frog |
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| Charles Tomaras |
| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 1:25 pm |
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"Philip Perkins" <spamiser@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3677d4b3.0405090703.7ec5a61@posting.google.com...
Quote: I wish ties would go out of fashion.
In a situation where you have no wardrobe control (docs etc)
some times the only thing to do is use as small a mic as you can (B6
etc)
and attach it to the FRONT of the tie, and figure that it will get
lost in the pattern
I've found that the wire on the B-6's holds its memory enough that I can
just leave about a quarter inch coming around the side of the tie and just
bend or crease the wire enough to keep it in place so all you see is the
tiny head folded over the edge of the tie. If you hit the pattern properly
with the right color B-6 it's difficult to spot.
Charlie |
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| Brad Harper |
| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 4:37 pm |
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The worst one I used to have to deal with was Joe Bob Briggs. I worked on
his show for five years and he always wore cowboy shirts with a bolo tie
that had silver tips. The shirts were bad enough due to the thickness and
against my pleading they were always lightly starched, but the bolo was a
killer. Fortunately 95% of the show was on a Schoeps but the 5% that he had
to be wired kept my stomach in knots. When the Sankens can out the rubber
mount was a life saver. The rubber effectively cushioned the blow of the
leather cords bouncing on the shirt and the COS-11 matched up pretty well
with the Schoeps. If I had to do it today I am sure I hide a Countryman B6
in plain sight.
The gaffer used lekos to light the exterior trailer shot in order to contain
the light and make it look like a night scene. Joe Bob would walk out the
trailer door down the steps and sit in a creaky lawn chair for the rest of
his dialog. This was a three camera shot with one on a jib and the shadows
were horrible. I would bring him out on the Sanken and switch to the Schoeps
while he was in motion to sit (typically in mid sentence because we didn't
get a rehearsal). We would do up to three hundred pages in a three day
weekend so you didn't get many shots at it if you screwed it up. That's one
job I don't miss and I know my boom ops don't miss it either. I'll bet on a
typical 16 hour day their arms were up 10 hours.
Brad Harper |
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