results of my FR-2 test

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Frank Kruse

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:34 am

Guest

Here´s wht I found during my test over the weekend:

-First Info I got from a friend working at the Berlin filmschool. They
have Devas, Nagra V and FR-2. He told me that they did some mesuring
with a state-of-the-art Neutrik Portable-One and found that
suprisingly FR-2 had the best specs of all machines in terms of noise
etc. etc. even better than the Nagra!

-I compared the mic-ins of the FR-2 with my sound devices Mix-Pre. The
still sound slighly better and has a tiny amount less noise, so I
think it´s still worth listening to the sound devices machines when
come out...

-downsides of the FR-2:
with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till it´s
ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

you can only monitor the input´s in "record-ready mode". If you record
and stop the machine instantly mutes the monitor. I think they should
change the software so that the machine goes from record to
record-ready and not to mute.

selecting files you want to play is very annoying because you have to
select a file in 2 sub-menues before you can play it. also you can´t
access the menu while the machine is playing.

you can only select record when you are in the top-level menue. I´m
used from the deva that record has number-one priority. you can punch
in record any time and the machine will record no matter what. the
FR-2 doesn´t´go into record if you are in one of the menues or playing
back. so if there is a panic situation you first have to return to the
home page or stop playback before you can record.

the pre-record feature is quite stupid because after pressing stop you
have to wait the amount of time you pre-recorded to be written to
disk. so if you set 10 seconds of pre-record you have to wait 10
seconds after pressing stop before you can hit record again.

the batterie compartment on the bottom is a maximum stupid location
also power consumption is extremely high. but my local dealer makes a
modification so you can use NP-1-type batteries

advantages of the FR-2:

- good mic-pres

-cheap

cheers,

frank.

Dave Liquorice

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:59 am

Guest

On 26 Apr 2004 12:46:44 -0700, Nordy wrote:

Quote:

with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till
it s ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

Hmmm . . . PLEASE tell me this is an exaggeration.

The imediate question that springs to mind is is that 15 to 20 seconds
from cold ie having to boot the machine. Or 15 to 20 seconds from
"record pause"...

--
Cheers new5pam@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Nordy

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:46 pm

Guest

Quote:

with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till it´s
ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

Hmmm . . . PLEASE tell me this is an exaggeration. Am I off my rocker
in thinking that 15 to 20 seconds before I can call "speed" is totally
unacceptable?

I was about to buy one to replace my HHB MD, but this seems like a
prohibitive problem to me.

Nordy
Portland, OR

Jeff Wexler

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:48 pm

Guest

On 4/26/04 12:46 PM, in article
ee85132c.0404261146.2b46a573@posting.google.com, "Nordy"
<nordynord@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:

with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till it´s
ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

Hmmm . . . PLEASE tell me this is an exaggeration. Am I off my rocker
in thinking that 15 to 20 seconds before I can call "speed" is totally
unacceptable?

I was about to buy one to replace my HHB MD, but this seems like a
prohibitive problem to me.

Nordy
Portland, OR

I am wondering if the Fostex FR-2 is fooling you as far as not being able to
record until the 10 second pre-roll buffer empties... The Deva II, when set
to pre-record (let's say 10 seconds) when you go into record for about 6
seconds (less than the 10 second pre-roll) then push stop, then push record,
the machine appears NOT to be recording for the 4 second difference. Upon
playback, we realized early on, it was in fact recording but there was an
overlap of the first 10 second pre-roll and the second 10 second pre-roll if
you know what I'm saying. Net result: seamless recording even while pushing
REC, STOP, REC, STOP, etc. but the machine does not indicate that this is
what is happening and in fact just says WAIT (which was a little scary
before we knew what was going on). Could this be what is happening with the
FR-2?

Regards, Jeff Wexler

William Sarokin

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:50 pm

Guest

"Jeff Wexler" <notjeff@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BCB2C3A8.137F1%notjeff@earthlink.net...
.. Could this be what is happening with the

Quote:

FR-2?

Or was Frank referring to the boot up time from power up to record?

Jeff Wexler

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 3:14 pm

Guest

On 4/26/04 1:50 PM, in article xCejc.26783$eK3.4484@nwrdny01.gnilink.net,
"William Sarokin" <bigmaho@verizon.net> wrote:

Quote:

"Jeff Wexler" <notjeff@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BCB2C3A8.137F1%notjeff@earthlink.net...
. Could this be what is happening with the
FR-2?

Or was Frank referring to the boot up time from power up to record?

No, I believe he specifically talked about the length of time after pushing

stop before you could record again, being equal to the amount in seconds
that you have of pre-record. That's why I thought it might just be the sort
of "error" that Deva reports when going in and out of record quickly.

What I would like to know is with the FR-2, 10 seconds of pre-record, 2
minute recording, stop, then right back into record --- is this a problem?
Do you have to wait 10 seconds?

Jeff W.

Peter

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:22 pm

Guest

Well, in my limited training on the PD6, you do have to wait for the
buffers to clear before recording again. There are prominent "WAIT!"
messages displayed during that time. Perhaps a PD6 owner can comment on
whether that message is misleading.
I am familiar with the Deva's WAIT message given while waiting for the
10sec of preroll to fill before kicking into normal recording. I've
always felt that was a bit misleading (and scary) as well. But I've
ignored it with excellent results. It does seam to always pick up
precisely where the previous take cut, and played in sequence it works
great. Very handy for when they call 'cut' and don't really mean it
(though I usually watch the monitor and see if camera really cuts before
I will.)
Peter

In article <BCB2C3A8.137F1%notjeff@earthlink.net>,
Jeff Wexler <notjeff@earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:

Steven Rogers

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:56 pm

Guest

Quote:

--
Steven J. Rogers
Warlock Sound - New York
FILMMIX@SI.RR.COM
http://home.si.rr.com/warlocksound/

Frank Kruse

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:36 am

Guest

Sorry, I was talking about the time the FR-2 needs to be record ready
after a power-up.

frank.

nordynord@yahoo.com (Nordy) wrote in message news:<ee85132c.0404261146.2b46a573@posting.google.com>...

Quote:

Frank Kruse

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:44 am

Guest

OK guys,

I think I was a bit confusing, so to clear things:

- The FR-2 needs 15 to 20 seconds to power up.

-The "wait" message appears as soon as you use pre-record. the time
youe have to "wait" after pressing stop is exactly the time you set
the pre-record buffer to. so is seems the machine is actually writing
the pre-record buffer to disk in real time wich i find really
annoying. this is not the case with a deva. but hey, the FR-2 only
costs a tenth of the deva. but still the pre-record is weird, because
you might get a some interesting audio while using it but at the same
time you might lose some stuff while waiting for the machine to write
it´s buffers to disk. on documentaries not that great.

but I maily lokk at the FR-2 as an extra FX-recorder and not as a
production machine...

frank.

"Dave Liquorice" <newspam@howhill.com> wrote in message news:<nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.hwt47l3.pminews@news.howhill.com>...

Quote:

On 26 Apr 2004 12:46:44 -0700, Nordy wrote:

with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till
it s ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

Hmmm . . . PLEASE tell me this is an exaggeration.

The imediate question that springs to mind is is that 15 to 20 seconds
from cold ie having to boot the machine. Or 15 to 20 seconds from
"record pause"...

Frank Kruse

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:45 am

Guest

I forgot to mention how the "HP matrix" works on the FR-2. If you set
the FR-2 to mono recording mode it will only record the signal that is
present at input one. At the same time this signal will be routed to
both channels of your headphones, so you will hear propperly. It
doesn´t have any kind of signal routing so you wont be able to mix two
inputs to one recording track.
I guess the idea was to keep the price of the FR-2 as low as possible
while providing very good sonic quality so there are some
disadvantages to the machines that cost more than 1000$ more like the
sound devices machine.

I guess it useless to complain about missing features like "why is
there no MS-matrix?" it´s just the way it is and if you want an
MS-matrix you will get used to the fact that you will have to invest
more money...

frank.

Steven Rogers <Filmmix@removethis.si.rr.com> wrote in message news:<_Rkjc.66362$WA4.27859@twister.nyc.rr.com>...

Quote:

I have to ask these questions. If this machine is intended for
professional recording,("Timecode Module available soon",) then why did
they not design it with two separate input level controls instead of the
ganged concentric pots?
There are 2 microphone/line inputs so two microphones may be used... are
your pots always at the same levels when recording let's say an interview?
Also, why no simple headphone matrix? Do I have to buy one from Ambiant
(Like the one I bought and installed in my PD4 years back) in order to
monitor correctly. Or is this machine intended to be used only with an
external mixer? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trashing this machine. It
has some nice features, however, 2 separate volume controls and a rotary
switch could have been designed into it.

Nordy wrote:
with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till it´s
ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

Hmmm . . . PLEASE tell me this is an exaggeration. Am I off my rocker
in thinking that 15 to 20 seconds before I can call "speed" is totally
unacceptable?

I was about to buy one to replace my HHB MD, but this seems like a
prohibitive problem to me.

Nordy
Portland, OR

Wolf

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:29 pm

Guest

----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Kruse" <frank@wildtrax.de>

answers from Rick Cannata Fostex USA Consultant ( he will not
participate in this group because of his perception of the groups “bias”
against Fostex)

FK: Here´s what I found during my test over the weekend:

-First Info I got from a friend working at the Berlin film school. They
have Devas, Nagra V and FR-2. He told me that they did some measuring
with a state-of-the-art Neutrik Portable-One and found that
surprisingly FR-2 had the best specs of all machines in terms of noise
etc. etc. even better than the Nagra!

-I compared the mic-ins of the FR-2 with my sound devices Mix-Pre. The
still sound slightly better and has a tiny amount less noise, so I think
it´s still worth listening to the sound devices machines when it comes
out...

-downsides of the FR-2:
with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till it´s
ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

RC: The faster the drive the less time to wait. The new Toshibas will be
a lot quicker.

you can only monitor the input´s in "record-ready mode". If you record
and stop the machine instantly mutes the monitor. I think they should
change the software so that the machine goes from record to
record-ready and not to mute.

RC: We will look into this ASAP.

selecting files you want to play is very annoying because you have to
select a file in 2 sub-menues before you can play it. also you can´t
access the menu while the machine is playing.

RC: All you need to do is hit locate file and spin the wheel??

you can only select record when you are in the top-level menue. I´m
used from the deva that record has number-one priority. you can punch
in record any time and the machine will record no matter what. the
FR-2 doesn´t´go into record if you are in one of the menues or playing
back. so if there is a panic situation you first have to return to the
home page or stop playback before you can record.

RC: This is done as a safety precaution. We can change it if the market
demands it.

the pre-record feature is quite stupid because after pressing stop you
have to wait the amount of time you pre-recorded to be written to
disk. so if you set 10 seconds of pre-record you have to wait 10
seconds after pressing stop before you can hit record again.

RC: This is the way the PD 6 works as well. But … You do not have to
wait when using the Pre Record Buffer on the FR 2. While it says "Wait"
you can go ahead and start your next file which is recorded in the
background. Nothing is lost or delayed.

the battery compartment on the bottom is a maximum stupid location
also power consumption is extremely high. but my local dealer makes a
modification so you can use NP-1-type batteries

RC: There is a battery compensation mode coming in the next revision.

advantages of the FR-2:

- good mic-pres

-cheap

cheers, frank.

atis118

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:29 pm

Guest

My FR-2 takes about 5seconds, you're rolling, recording, hit
standby....then it takes about 5 seconds to flush the buffer before
you can roll again.

Greg King
Sound Dogs Inc.

frank@wildtrax.de (Frank Kruse) wrote in message news:<96ec8d22.0404270136.30fffcbc@posting.google.com>...

Quote:

Sorry, I was talking about the time the FR-2 needs to be record ready
after a power-up.

frank.

nordynord@yahoo.com (Nordy) wrote in message news:<ee85132c.0404261146.2b46a573@posting.google.com>...
with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till it´s
ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

Hmmm . . . PLEASE tell me this is an exaggeration. Am I off my rocker
in thinking that 15 to 20 seconds before I can call "speed" is totally
unacceptable?

I was about to buy one to replace my HHB MD, but this seems like a
prohibitive problem to me.

Nordy
Portland, OR

Frank Kruse

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:38 pm

Guest

Wolf <BADwolfvidGOOD@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<YDxjc.30508$0u6.5353064@attbi_s03>...

Quote:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Kruse" <frank@wildtrax.de

answers from Rick Cannata Fostex USA Consultant ( he will not
participate in this group because of his perception of the groups “bias”
against Fostex)

so here´s ny bias. I think the FR-2 is the best surprise fostex has
put out for quite some time. over at the sound design group people are
raving about the sonic quality. I think it´s a great machine for the
price and if the SD will not come out soon, I will buy one myself.

Quote:

FK: Here´s what I found during my test over the weekend:

-First Info I got from a friend working at the Berlin film school. They
have Devas, Nagra V and FR-2. He told me that they did some measuring
with a state-of-the-art Neutrik Portable-One and found that
surprisingly FR-2 had the best specs of all machines in terms of noise
etc. etc. even better than the Nagra!

what a bias against fostex...

Quote:

-downsides of the FR-2:
with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till it´s
ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

RC: The faster the drive the less time to wait. The new Toshibas will be
a lot quicker.

I used a Toshiba 5gig drive. Don´t know if it was the newest
available.

Quote:

you can only monitor the input´s in "record-ready mode". If you record
and stop the machine instantly mutes the monitor. I think they should
change the software so that the machine goes from record to
record-ready and not to mute.

RC: We will look into this ASAP.

cool.

Quote:

selecting files you want to play is very annoying because you have to
select a file in 2 sub-menues before you can play it. also you can´t
access the menu while the machine is playing.

RC: All you need to do is hit locate file and spin the wheel??

It would be cooler when you could dial through and see the files on
the home-page instead of sub menus. just a suggestion.

Quote:

you can only select record when you are in the top-level menue. I´m
used from the deva that record has number-one priority. you can punch
in record any time and the machine will record no matter what. the
FR-2 doesn´t´go into record if you are in one of the menues or playing
back. so if there is a panic situation you first have to return to the
home page or stop playback before you can record.

RC: This is done as a safety precaution. We can change it if the market
demands it.

that would be awesome! It would be also great to have the FR-2 go into
record even when it´s playing back.

Quote:

the pre-record feature is quite stupid because after pressing stop you
have to wait the amount of time you pre-recorded to be written to
disk. so if you set 10 seconds of pre-record you have to wait 10
seconds after pressing stop before you can hit record again.

RC: This is the way the PD 6 works as well. But … You do not have to
wait when using the Pre Record Buffer on the FR 2. While it says "Wait"
you can go ahead and start your next file which is recorded in the
background. Nothing is lost or delayed.

great. I didn´t try that. I think it wasn´t mentioned in the manual.

Quote:

RC: There is a battery compensation mode coming in the next revision.

what is a battery compensation mode?

also: I tried both connecting a Mac via usb and poping the drive into
the pcmcia slot of my titanium and no "collapsing media" (quote from
the manual) was encountered. Maybe I was lucky but so far that seems
to work fine.

thanks for the info,

Frank.

Glen Trew

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:20 pm

Guest

Hi Frank,

Check your Deva again, because it actually does the same thing: When
recording with the prerecord selected, then stopping, then going back into
record, you get the "wait" message and the red light does not come on until
the pre record buffer has expired. But, during this "wait" period, the
machine is, indeed, recording.

Glen Trew

"Frank Kruse" <frank@wildtrax.de> wrote in message
news:96ec8d22.0404270144.68909088@posting.google.com...

Quote:

OK guys,

I think I was a bit confusing, so to clear things:

- The FR-2 needs 15 to 20 seconds to power up.

-The "wait" message appears as soon as you use pre-record. the time
youe have to "wait" after pressing stop is exactly the time you set
the pre-record buffer to. so is seems the machine is actually writing
the pre-record buffer to disk in real time wich i find really
annoying. this is not the case with a deva. but hey, the FR-2 only
costs a tenth of the deva. but still the pre-record is weird, because
you might get a some interesting audio while using it but at the same
time you might lose some stuff while waiting for the machine to write
it´s buffers to disk. on documentaries not that great.

but I maily lokk at the FR-2 as an extra FX-recorder and not as a
production machine...

frank.

"Dave Liquorice" <newspam@howhill.com> wrote in message
news:<nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.hwt47l3.pminews@news.howhill.com>...
On 26 Apr 2004 12:46:44 -0700, Nordy wrote:

with a pcmcia-drive the machine takes about 15 to 20 seconds till
it s ready to record (slightly faster with CF memory)

Hmmm . . . PLEASE tell me this is an exaggeration.

The imediate question that springs to mind is is that 15 to 20 seconds
from cold ie having to boot the machine. Or 15 to 20 seconds from
"record pause"...

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