2 points. One is it might be premature to give up on DVD/RAM. DVD R is a
write once format, so if you want to edit the metadata after the fact you
have to reburn a new disk. I heard from Zaxcom that you can write a revised
metadata file at the end of the day for the entire disk, so the ass't editor
can load the revised file rather than the metadata attached to each take.
We'll have to see in the future how this works out.

But, are you going to correct all the metadata in the end of a

The other option is DVD-RW, but Howy told me (confirmation please) that
these disks have to be preformatted and that take approx 20 minutes. I do
not know if you can pre-format a large # of DVD's or if you have to format a
DVD for each HD partition.

My plan is to use the DVD V with the built in DVD R for dailies and a
firewire DVD/RAM for post.

Also Roberto mentioned concerns about simultaneous mirroring. My
understanding is that Deva V writes to all drives simultaneously, but since
the DVD's are slower than the hard drive, larger files (I believe >6 tracks
and >48K) will not be written in real time in which case the Deva will go
into automatic mirroring mode similar to the current Deva if RECORD is
pushed before the writing is complete.

"Ray Collins" <rcol@intergate.bc.ca*remove> wrote in message
news:408ab3b3_1@dowco.com...


I looked at these briefly. I expect durability from anyything I buy
for camping as well as any activity that takes me outdoors. One look
at the stitching holding the cover to the metal stays and I lost
interest. I didn't stay around to find out the price. The stitching
appeared to be done by hand. Very poorly.



The moment he told me that it didn't need a windjammer, I lost interest
immediatly. I guess they get soft breezes off Denkark. ;-)

It was a prototype so you would expect hand stitching, however there was
hardly any room for an xlr out the back.

I thought it was cool. (DPA windscreen) They had a great right angle XLR
they manufactured themselves that I suggested they start selling to
others.
I just think it would be a great, although expensive addition to a small
portable kit for those times when you can only take a small case and they
tell you it's only an interior interview and then the plan changes and you
are working outdoors. You gotta hand it to them that it is very ingenious.

Kudos to DPA for attempting something very innovative and very different
from anything else. Time will tell how much it's worth to the end user.

Glen Trew

In all fairness to DPA, I think the following needs to be pointed out:

1) It was emphasized at the NAB booth that the screen displayed was a
hand-stitched prototype, and that production versions would be neater.

2) The screen collapses totally flat into a small circle when not in use.
Since basket type windscreens are some of the larger things we have to
store, you have to appreciate this feature.

3) It is quite possible that it doesn't need a windjammer-type cover. Keep
in mind that a furry cover is not so much to keep wind from getting to the
microphone, but more to keep wind from making noise when blowing against
the
outside. The DPA screen surface is unique in that it is silky smooth, so
maybe the is no need for the furry cover.

4) The suspension is the closest to a one-size-fits-all that I've seen. It
is also made of a synthetic (nylon?) and fiberglass composite that is
extremely lightweight and strong (much stronger and lighter than aluminum
from what I could tell.)

Kudos to DPA for attempting something very innovative and very different
from anything else. Time will tell how much it's worth to the end user.

Glen Trew


"Charles Tomaras" <tomaras@tomaras.com> wrote in message
news:1d6dnfDx0f9FKhfd4p2dnA@comcast.com...

"Ray Collins" <rcol@intergate.bc.ca*remove> wrote in message
news:408ab3b3_1@dowco.com...


I looked at these briefly. I expect durability from anyything I buy
for camping as well as any activity that takes me outdoors. One look
at the stitching holding the cover to the metal stays and I lost
interest. I didn't stay around to find out the price. The stitching
appeared to be done by hand. Very poorly.



The moment he told me that it didn't need a windjammer, I lost
interest
immediatly. I guess they get soft breezes off Denkark. ;-)

It was a prototype so you would expect hand stitching, however there
was
hardly any room for an xlr out the back.

I thought it was cool. (DPA windscreen) They had a great right angle XLR
they manufactured themselves that I suggested they start selling to
others.
I just think it would be a great, although expensive addition to a small
portable kit for those times when you can only take a small case and
they
tell you it's only an interior interview and then the plan changes and
you
are working outdoors. You gotta hand it to them that it is very
ingenious.

But, are you going to correct all the metadata in the end of a
shooting day ?
I mean, from the 2 features i did on HD, i see that 85 % of the
metadata slate take numbering is correct, and the rest is sometimes a
take to much, or a complete range wrong.
But i never heard any complaint from post about this, they see it as
something nice, but i'm not so sure about the actual effect of it.

But you will do the DVD ram in the end, after shooting, i presume ?
From what i see is that i use DVD + R for picture post, and 2 options
for audio post.
1 : make a dump to a portable 200 G whatever brand external HD for
Audio post when it is done after picture lock & shooting period (
features )
2 : Make a DVD +R dump in the end of the week for audio post with 4
shooting days on 1 Disc.

"Rob?rto" <Immer@Olijk.com> wrote in message
news:pnmn805of0qg89dphjnshkcrplm78jlvgl@4ax.com...
.

But, are you going to correct all the metadata in the end of a
shooting day ?
I mean, from the 2 features i did on HD, i see that 85 % of the
metadata slate take numbering is correct, and the rest is sometimes a
take to much, or a complete range wrong.
But i never heard any complaint from post about this, they see it as
something nice, but i'm not so sure about the actual effect of it.

This remains to be seen. I believe accurate Metadata will be a great help
to the sound editors. My gut feeling is that without accurate data
they'll
rarely access the additional tracks we give them. The metadata will stamp
every take with Scene, take, notes and a track list of who or what is on
each track. The software on the Deva 5 (and I imagine the Cantar and
Portadrive) make it very simple to make corrections to the metadata after
the fact so I would spend the extra 5 minutes at wrap to correct any
mis-slates or type in any special notes.

The only question is what format I'll write too. If it's DVD-R, then I
can't correct any data that's already been written, but I can write a
seperate data file. The editor would have to merge this data file with
the
actual wav files. I'm not sure how simple or complex that procedure would
be. I could use DVD-RW, which CAN re-write corrected data. The only
issue
there is whether pre-formatting is a pain in the butt. I'm still leaning
towards continuing using a DVD/RAM drive which formats in seconds and is
re-writable (and more robust than the other formats)



But you will do the DVD ram in the end, after shooting, i presume ?
From what i see is that i use DVD + R for picture post, and 2 options
for audio post.
1 : make a dump to a portable 200 G whatever brand external HD for
Audio post when it is done after picture lock & shooting period (
features )
2 : Make a DVD +R dump in the end of the week for audio post with 4
shooting days on 1 Disc.

These are interesting options. I was going to use the DVD drive on the
Deva
for dailies (either DVD-R or DVD-RW) and an external DVD/RAM drive for
post.
The DVD/RAM could be done simultaneously with any metadata corrections
being
done at the end of the day. Your idea of using a 200 gig fire wire Hard
Drive is interesting. That woould be fast and easy for post, but I'd be
worried that with all the abuse our gear takes on the trucks that it's
possible the drive could become damaged at some point. At first I would
probably stick with daily DVD/RAMs for the sound editors, but I could
easily
be convinced otherwise (especially since the fire wire HD's have gotten
much
smaller and faster)

Billy

These are interesting options. I was going to use the DVD drive on the Deva
for dailies (either DVD-R or DVD-RW) and an external DVD/RAM drive for post.
The DVD/RAM could be done simultaneously with any metadata corrections being
done at the end of the day. Your idea of using a 200 gig fire wire Hard
Drive is interesting. That woould be fast and easy for post, but I'd be
worried that with all the abuse our gear takes on the trucks that it's
possible the drive could become damaged at some point. At first I would
probably stick with daily DVD/RAMs for the sound editors, but I could easily
be convinced otherwise (especially since the fire wire HD's have gotten much
smaller and faster)

Billy

senses!

Gerry Formicola

(Yes I did have one to many scotches on Tuesday night, or was it two
to many... ahh who can keep count.)

Still from the suburbs just outside Chicago ..... Matt

William Sarokin wrote:


These are interesting options. I was going to use the DVD drive on the
Deva
for dailies (either DVD-R or DVD-RW) and an external DVD/RAM drive for
post.
The DVD/RAM could be done simultaneously with any metadata corrections
being
done at the end of the day. Your idea of using a 200 gig fire wire Hard
Drive is interesting. That woould be fast and easy for post, but I'd be
worried that with all the abuse our gear takes on the trucks that it's
possible the drive could become damaged at some point. At first I would
probably stick with daily DVD/RAMs for the sound editors, but I could
easily
be convinced otherwise (especially since the fire wire HD's have gotten
much
smaller and faster)

Billy



Billy,
I wouldn't even have to be a 200 gig drive--unless you wanted to
incrementally back up an entire feature for post. You can find very
sturdy-looking (sorry, haven't tried any myself) aluminum external
enclosures. for under $100. Throw a cheap 20 or 40 gig 3.5" drive in
there--also under $100, probably closer to $50 if you really look--and
you are ready to go.

Most drive these days are spec'd to 300 G's or more of shock
non-operating. It would take a lot to grenade one. If it did blow up
on the truck, pull out your spare $50 drive and install it. Unless you
are doing the incremental backup, no data lost.

---Matt
Chicago, IL

gig drives for approx $200. I'd sell them to production for $300.

"Matt Mayer" <matt@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:a5Xic.34696$aQ6.1860145@attbi_s51...
William Sarokin wrote:


These are interesting options. I was going to use the DVD drive on
the
Deva
for dailies (either DVD-R or DVD-RW) and an external DVD/RAM drive for
post.
The DVD/RAM could be done simultaneously with any metadata corrections
being
done at the end of the day. Your idea of using a 200 gig fire wire
Hard
Drive is interesting. That woould be fast and easy for post, but I'd
be
worried that with all the abuse our gear takes on the trucks that it's
possible the drive could become damaged at some point. At first I
would
probably stick with daily DVD/RAMs for the sound editors, but I could
easily
be convinced otherwise (especially since the fire wire HD's have
gotten
much
smaller and faster)

Billy



Billy,
I wouldn't even have to be a 200 gig drive--unless you wanted to
incrementally back up an entire feature for post. You can find very
sturdy-looking (sorry, haven't tried any myself) aluminum external
enclosures. for under $100. Throw a cheap 20 or 40 gig 3.5" drive in
there--also under $100, probably closer to $50 if you really look--and
you are ready to go.

Most drive these days are spec'd to 300 G's or more of shock
non-operating. It would take a lot to grenade one. If it did blow up
on the truck, pull out your spare $50 drive and install it. Unless you
are doing the incremental backup, no data lost.

---Matt
Chicago, IL

Drive is interesting. That woould be fast and easy for post, but I'd be
worried that with all the abuse our gear takes on the trucks that it's
possible the drive could become damaged at some point.

there will be enouth of thos who will buy the packege , look how many sony
mikes are working around ,its just come with the camera

suckers dont die they just change
Glen this kind of product is really very easy to make ,it was invented
very long time ago,and with some clever adjastment can be produsced in 15%
of the dpa cost , just check your dryer and see how the air is going out .
850$ , are they nuts?
Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland

Check out the boxes that Mackie uses for their removable hard drives.
They
seem robust enough for the average PA to handle and transport.

I wouldn't even have to be a 200 gig drive--unless you wanted to
incrementally back up an entire feature for post. You can find very
sturdy-looking (sorry, haven't tried any myself) aluminum external
enclosures. for under $100. Throw a cheap 20 or 40 gig 3.5" drive in
there--also under $100, probably closer to $50 if you really look--and
you are ready to go.