Really? I know they've gotten overhyped, but are you really
saying that Jackson's LOTR films aren't well made?

A zebra print leatherette sofa might be well-made, but it will still be

Actually, I can quibble with more than that.

First, I think some of the casting was poor, particularly Viggo
Mortensen as Aragorn (which is funny because I'm a pretty progressive
fellow and I suspect that most of the people who didn't like him felt
that way because of his progressive politics!); he's too young and
doesn't project a regal image.

How about Hugo Weaving as Elrond? Hugo Weaving?! What were they
thinking?

Also, I wasn't thrilled with Liv Tyler. She's certainly not an ugly
woman; indeed, she's pretty in her way, but she's certainly not
beautiful (to my eyes) nor regal and that's what the role of Arwen
required (pretty much what Cate Blanchett brought to her role).

OTOH, some of the casting was excellent, particularly Cate Blanchett
(perhaps one of the best cast roles I've seen), Ian McKellan, and John
Rhys-Davis.

Second, far too much screen time is devoted to fight scenes, even going
so far as to create some where they did not exist in the book
(especially, the ridiculous Gandalf-Saruman battle). And, the battle in
the Mines of Moria was far too long.

Third, the Lorien scenes were bad; so little time was spent on them that
it seems merely a brief glimpse. Recall the Lorien chapter and I'd be
surprised if you told me that the movie captured the "feel" of the
chapter.

And, Boromir sneering at and throwing down Anduril? Please! The son of
the Steward of Gondor would have had far greater respect for such an
heirloom.

How about the Aragorn's character? A friend of mine wrote:

This did bother me [referring to my complaint, noted above, about
Boromir's lack of respect for Anduril], and in general the portrayal
of Boromir contained far too many hints and indications that he would
try to steal the Ring. Too much forshadowing, which goes against
Tolkien's view, which was clearly that Boromir was a good man who had
a moment of weakness (and mostly from good motives).

I also didn't like the self-doubt which was added to Aragorn's
character (that he thought he shouldn't be king, because he would end
up being weak as his ancestor had been).

That seemed an effort to make the motivation more "modern" and
"psychological," but Tolkien wasn't that kind of writer.

but overall Peter Jackson's
films are much, much more than any Tolkien fan could
ever rightfully expect. I am absolutely satisfied by the
trilogy, and continually amazed that they pulled it off. It
is a brilliant cinematic achievement.

I can agree only on a technical level.

Biggest problem I see is that, though I was enthralled by the Covenant
books, they have the unfortunate "co-incidence" of a hero waaaaay out of his
depth battling an unseen source of all-conquering evil, but honoured by
various races because he possesses a powerful gold ring.

Seems to ring a bell.............he's even aided by a motley crew of
protectors / friends. Still, at least he's taller than Frodo..........but I
bet the rapist element of the Covenant character is dropped like a burny
'tater..........

Reciprocally, no one is going to buy one of the current "known"
anorexics as Wonder Woman, so forget Jennifer Garner and any
other Hollywood skeleton you might think of.

I can remember when I first heard that Jackson was
taking on the Lord of the Rings. I laughed out loud,
shook my head, and said, "There is *no* way anyone
will ever do those books justice." I am *very* happy
that everyone involved in those films proved me wrong.

I will now say the same thing about The Chronicles of
Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever. And this time I will
be right.

Sadly, I think you're right - it takes vision & luck to successfully adapt
challenging fantasy for the screen - Jackson & his team had vision & the
good luck to come across a supportive studio executive.

Biggest problem I see is that, though I was enthralled by the Covenant
books, they have the unfortunate "co-incidence" of a hero waaaaay out of
his
depth battling an unseen source of all-conquering evil, but honoured by
various races because he possesses a powerful gold ring.

Seems to ring a bell.............he's even aided by a motley crew of
protectors / friends. Still, at least he's taller than Frodo..........but
I
bet the rapist element of the Covenant character is dropped like a burny
'tater..........

In article <YJpyd.10889$Z47.6715@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Joe Negron <jnegron@XmindspringX.com>wrote:

First, I think some of the casting was poor, particularly Viggo
Mortensen as Aragorn (which is funny because I'm a pretty progressive
fellow and I suspect that most of the people who didn't like him felt
that way because of his progressive politics!); he's too young and
doesn't project a regal image.

Actually, he's exactly the right age; book-Aragorn was eighty-some, but
the men of Numenor age more slowly than normal men. Viggo, in real
life, is the age Aragorn was said to appear.

I bet the rapist element of the Covenant character is dropped like a
burny
'tater..........

This is *exactly* what I'm talking about. If they take out that scene
it destroys *everything*. That one crime is central to what Covenant
goes through; the way he reacts and *doesn't* react at almost every
crucial turn.

And RogerM mentions the leperosy. Eliminate that, and what's left
of Thomas Covenant? Why is he so bitter? Why can't he allow himself
to believe in The Land? It is *way* too important to the development
of the character.

But both could be tampered with, and we'll be left with an empty
shell of a story.

The makers of these films have to have some real *guts* to pull this off.

Have a great day!

In article <z_1yd.8166$yK.5003@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Joe
Negron <jnegron@XmindspringX.com>writes
Really? I know they've gotten overhyped, but are you really
saying that Jackson's LOTR films aren't well made?

A zebra print leatherette sofa might be well-made, but it will still be
revolting and tasteless.

How I did hate them! Let me count the ways....

And actually Jackson would be the perfect person to film the dire
Donaldson books; they are crass and simplistic in the same ways as he
is.

On 2004-12-23, jere7my tho?rpe <jere7my2@oberlin.net> wrote:
Actually, he's exactly the right age; book-Aragorn was eighty-some, but
the men of Numenor age more slowly than normal men. Viggo, in real
life, is the age Aragorn was said to appear.

Perhaps, but I can only say that the mental image I have when reading
the books is of an older, more regal looking man.

Checking "At the Sign of The Prancing Pony" I find:

[...] As Frodo drew near be threw back his hood, showing a shaggy
head of dark hair flecked with grey, and in a pale stern face a pair
of keen grey eyes.

And in "Strider":

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.

Note "The old that is strong does not wither".

Surely there are other references to Aragorn's age and regal mien.

Reciprocally, no one is going to buy one of the current "known"
anorexics as Wonder Woman, so forget Jennifer Garner and any
other Hollywood skeleton you might think of. At least KH has
the frame to play her.

I agree. Heigl would be a great choice for the Amazon Princess. I think
another good one would be Victoria Pratt from MutantX. She has the body,
and the athletic ability, and the sexiest smirk on television.

And is really, really short.

Though her
mutant bud, Lexa, played by Karen Cliche, is probably closer to the Amazon
Princess of the comics.

If we do that, let's just go all the way and have Lauren Lee Smith do it
- she's tall and she's a brunette...

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:39:32 GMT, "Ian J. Ball"
ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

I agree. Heigl would be a great choice for the Amazon Princess. I think
another good one would be Victoria Pratt from MutantX. She has the body,
and the athletic ability, and the sexiest smirk on television.

And is really, really short.

Pardon the repetition but this post didn't show to every newsgroup that
showed the original.

Pratt is listed as 5' 6 by the imdb, which is hardly really, really short.

Good writing
Good acting
Good action
Good marketing

LARA CROFT: TOMB RAIDER
RESIDENT EVIL
ALIEN
ALIENS
TERMINATOR
TERMINATOR 2: JUDGEMENT DAY
ELEKTRA
ALIAS
XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER

The female action star has been a rare sight--in America

CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON
SUPERCOP 2
HERO
HOUSE OF THE FLYING DAGGERS

Also if you don't call them "action" movies but "horror" movies

HALLOWEEN
NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET
SCREAM
DARKNESS FALLS
DARKNESS

-- Ken from Chicago

This part of the problem, should it _be_ directed at kids?

It should be enjoyable by kids, no doubt. But the medium that is Comic
Books isn't limited to children's stories. As well, there is the idea
that the same kids who read it back in the 50's and 60's, and so on are
now.... Grown Ups!

Heres hoping it isn't just for kids, that is has a bit of maturity to
it. And the kids? I don't advocate leaving them behind by any means.
Besides what of our reach exceeding our grasp?


TBerk

rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) writes:

On 21 Dec 2004 20:18:07 -0800, schillin@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
wrote:

"Ian J. Ball" <ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid> writes:

In article <r7mdnciNt9GQn1XcRVn-og@comcast.com>,
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:

Personally, I favor Laura Prepon from THAT 70'S SHOW. She's tall, 24,
famous, but not too famous (aka expensive), being on tv for several years
would make her face recognizable to a lot of potential audiences.

I'll see that, and raise you Katherine Heigl.

Wonder Woman isn't a blonde, or redhead or any other such thing for that
matter.

Isn't Katherine Heigl actually brunette?


Don't know, and it doesn't matter. She made her name as a blonde, she
is generally recognized as a blonde, and there's not much point in hiring
her unless her name and recognizability are assets in the role.