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Movies Forum Index » General Movies Forum » why was heston cast in planet of the apes?
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| shlemazeltov |
 Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:55 pm |
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didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
in planet of the apes, heston was brash, defiant, cocky, and
irreverent. even ruthless and reckless. and, the message was liberal.
the bad ape was the moses-like oranguatan always talking about need
for spirituality while the liberal chimps were the most sympathetic.
planet of the apes is almost like the reverse of ten commandments.
in ten commandments, heston as moses leads an entire people out of
oppression; it's about community.
in planet of the apes, it's just him and the girl; it's about
departing from community.
in ten commandments, heston takes his people away from sinfulness and
go toward god.
in planet of apes, heston takes leave of a world of ruled by spiritual
law--albeit that of apes--and goes off into the wilderness of macho
nihilism.
in ten commandments, heston finds god and truth and his people are
saved.
in planet of apes, heston finds man and truth and his race is damned.
---
funny, but planet of the apes also foreshadowed the fall of hippiedom.
peter fonda: 'we blew it'. woodstock. 400,000 leave to find eden
and turn a nice farm town into a manure pile and crawl back home to
take a shower and sleep in their rooms and then ask mom for allowance. |
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| Dudhorse |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:00 am |
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.... think you are reading way too much into Planet of the Apes. Heston did
it because it was a good role.
"shlemazeltov" <gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com...
Quote: didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
in planet of the apes, heston was brash, defiant, cocky, and
irreverent. even ruthless and reckless. and, the message was liberal.
the bad ape was the moses-like oranguatan always talking about need
for spirituality while the liberal chimps were the most sympathetic.
planet of the apes is almost like the reverse of ten commandments.
in ten commandments, heston as moses leads an entire people out of
oppression; it's about community.
in planet of the apes, it's just him and the girl; it's about
departing from community.
in ten commandments, heston takes his people away from sinfulness and
go toward god.
in planet of apes, heston takes leave of a world of ruled by spiritual
law--albeit that of apes--and goes off into the wilderness of macho
nihilism.
in ten commandments, heston finds god and truth and his people are
saved.
in planet of apes, heston finds man and truth and his race is damned.
---
funny, but planet of the apes also foreshadowed the fall of hippiedom.
peter fonda: 'we blew it'. woodstock. 400,000 leave to find eden
and turn a nice farm town into a manure pile and crawl back home to
take a shower and sleep in their rooms and then ask mom for allowance. |
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| Kingo Gondo |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:47 am |
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"shlemazeltov" <gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com...
Quote: didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
in planet of the apes, heston was brash, defiant, cocky, and
irreverent. even ruthless and reckless.
Major Dundee of the Apes.
Quote: and, the message was liberal.
It was? What was it?
Quote: the bad ape was the moses-like oranguatan always talking about need
for spirituality while the liberal chimps were the most sympathetic.
No, he talked about the need to swallow fantastical horseshit as literal
truth; this makes him a bullshitter, nothing more. While this passes for
"conservatism" nowadays from the likes of George W. Bush, it is a far pace
from the then-contemporary conservatism of Barry Goldwater, the reigning
conservative icon of the times--just another sign of how badly the culture
has fallen.
Quote:
planet of the apes is almost like the reverse of ten commandments.
in ten commandments, heston as moses leads an entire people out of
oppression; it's about community.
in planet of the apes, it's just him and the girl; it's about
departing from community.
in ten commandments, heston takes his people away from sinfulness and
go toward god.
in planet of apes, heston takes leave of a world of ruled by spiritual
law--albeit that of apes--and goes off into the wilderness of macho
nihilism.
in ten commandments, heston finds god and truth and his people are
saved.
in planet of apes, heston finds man and truth and his race is damned.
Take your medication before you post next time, Gaza.
Quote: funny, but planet of the apes also foreshadowed the fall of hippiedom.
peter fonda: 'we blew it'. woodstock. 400,000 leave to find eden
and turn a nice farm town into a manure pile and crawl back home to
take a shower and sleep in their rooms and then ask mom for allowance.
How? Was Taylor emblematic of "hippiedom" somehow? He seemed more of a
radical individualist than any kind of communitarian. Let's get the Randians
at it again.
I repeat--take your meds (and read a fucking book now and then) before you
post, Gaza. |
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| eastcoastAl |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:58 am |
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He did it for the money like lots of his other b-flicks. Omegaman in
particular.
The PofhteApes series is a bunch of b-flicks. Now elevated to a cult
status. I liked them. I still watch occassionally esp when I can get
the whole series in a couple of days. But Great they're not.
EastcoastAl
In article <1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com>,
shlemazeltov <gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com> wrote:
§didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
§
§he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
§also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
§
§in planet of the apes, heston was brash, defiant, cocky, and
§irreverent. even ruthless and reckless. and, the message was liberal.
§ the bad ape was the moses-like oranguatan always talking about need
§for spirituality while the liberal chimps were the most sympathetic.
§
§planet of the apes is almost like the reverse of ten commandments.
§
§in ten commandments, heston as moses leads an entire people out of
§oppression; it's about community.
§in planet of the apes, it's just him and the girl; it's about
§departing from community.
§
§in ten commandments, heston takes his people away from sinfulness and
§go toward god.
§in planet of apes, heston takes leave of a world of ruled by spiritual
§law--albeit that of apes--and goes off into the wilderness of macho
§nihilism.
§
§in ten commandments, heston finds god and truth and his people are
§saved.
§in planet of apes, heston finds man and truth and his race is damned.
§
§---
§
§funny, but planet of the apes also foreshadowed the fall of hippiedom.
§ peter fonda: 'we blew it'. woodstock. 400,000 leave to find eden
§and turn a nice farm town into a manure pile and crawl back home to
§take a shower and sleep in their rooms and then ask mom for allowance.
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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| Joe McC |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:47 am |
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Guest
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"EGTea" <EGTea@spamless.com> wrote in message
news:4nabd.35703$zY6.4536@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
Quote: I'm gonna go out on a limb here.
I think Charlton Heston accepted the role in "Planet of the Apes" because
he
was an *actor.* He could be solemn and dignified or brash and cocky, as
the
script required. And he obviously didn't put his scripts or the people he
worked with through a political litmus test. Maybe this was because he was
fair-minded. Maybe because if he did, he would not have worked very much.
Egads! You know...you might *just* be on to something there......
My own politics are left of centre in UK terms, (In the US, Neo-Cons would
consider me a rotten pinko liberal )
Despite that, I loathe the shallow revisionist attitude towards Heston - a
very fine actor and a searingly intelligent & seemingly fair human being.
Anyone who's read his autobiography / diaries will know that. There's more
to him than his chairmanship of the NRA or being a foil for Michael Moore.
He may have become a bit of a reactionary old sod, but many of us get less
tolerant as we age...Heston has the same right. And there's no doubt his
opinions were reasoned & passionately held, even if I disagree with them. |
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| Johnd Fstone |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:16 am |
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eastcoastAl <eca@cnospam.com> writes:
Quote: He did it for the money like lots of his other b-flicks. Omegaman
in particular.
The PofhteApes series is a bunch of b-flicks. Now elevated to a cult
status. I liked them. I still watch occassionally esp when I can get
the whole series in a couple of days. But Great they're not.
Yeah, PLANET OF THE APES (1968) is a B-movie. It's not an A-movie,
like NIGHT OF THE BLOODY APES.
[...]
--
Singapore does not exist solely for the purpose of teaching English.
-- Donna Richoux |
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| John Harkness |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:54 am |
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On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:58:54 -0400, eastcoastAl <eca@cnospam.com>
wrote:
Quote: He did it for the money like lots of his other b-flicks. Omegaman in
particular.
The PofhteApes series is a bunch of b-flicks. Now elevated to a cult
status. I liked them. I still watch occassionally esp when I can get
the whole series in a couple of days. But Great they're not.
EastcoastAl
The sequels were Bs. The original was very much an "A" production, an
expensive, major studio film with a major star in the lead..
It's not great either, but it does have its moments, and an
astonishing score by Jerry Goldsmith.
John Harkness
Quote:
In article <1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com>,
shlemazeltov <gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com> wrote:
§didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
§
§he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
§also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
§
§in planet of the apes, heston was brash, defiant, cocky, and
§irreverent. even ruthless and reckless. and, the message was liberal.
§ the bad ape was the moses-like oranguatan always talking about need
§for spirituality while the liberal chimps were the most sympathetic.
§
§planet of the apes is almost like the reverse of ten commandments.
§
§in ten commandments, heston as moses leads an entire people out of
§oppression; it's about community.
§in planet of the apes, it's just him and the girl; it's about
§departing from community.
§
§in ten commandments, heston takes his people away from sinfulness and
§go toward god.
§in planet of apes, heston takes leave of a world of ruled by spiritual
§law--albeit that of apes--and goes off into the wilderness of macho
§nihilism.
§
§in ten commandments, heston finds god and truth and his people are
§saved.
§in planet of apes, heston finds man and truth and his race is damned.
§
§---
§
§funny, but planet of the apes also foreshadowed the fall of hippiedom.
§ peter fonda: 'we blew it'. woodstock. 400,000 leave to find eden
§and turn a nice farm town into a manure pile and crawl back home to
§take a shower and sleep in their rooms and then ask mom for allowance.
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:47 am |
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Uhm.. he wasn't really Moses.
Charlton Heston is an actor. You kind of hope that actors will take on
roles that are different from the ones played previous..
But yea.. I know a lot of actors don't  |
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| Paul B. Thompson |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:50 pm |
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Yes, and a script by Rod Serling.
"John Harkness" <jhXaYrknessZ@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:pcnqm01f92ufc2a82guiu8pkau7149b60c@4ax.com...
Quote: On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:58:54 -0400, eastcoastAl <eca@cnospam.com
wrote:
He did it for the money like lots of his other b-flicks. Omegaman in
particular.
The PofhteApes series is a bunch of b-flicks. Now elevated to a cult
status. I liked them. I still watch occassionally esp when I can get
the whole series in a couple of days. But Great they're not.
EastcoastAl
The sequels were Bs. The original was very much an "A" production, an
expensive, major studio film with a major star in the lead..
It's not great either, but it does have its moments, and an
astonishing score by Jerry Goldsmith.
John Harkness
In article <1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com>,
shlemazeltov <gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com> wrote:
§didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
§
§he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
§also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
§
§in planet of the apes, heston was brash, defiant, cocky, and
§irreverent. even ruthless and reckless. and, the message was liberal.
§ the bad ape was the moses-like oranguatan always talking about need
§for spirituality while the liberal chimps were the most sympathetic.
§
§planet of the apes is almost like the reverse of ten commandments.
§
§in ten commandments, heston as moses leads an entire people out of
§oppression; it's about community.
§in planet of the apes, it's just him and the girl; it's about
§departing from community.
§
§in ten commandments, heston takes his people away from sinfulness and
§go toward god.
§in planet of apes, heston takes leave of a world of ruled by spiritual
§law--albeit that of apes--and goes off into the wilderness of macho
§nihilism.
§
§in ten commandments, heston finds god and truth and his people are
§saved.
§in planet of apes, heston finds man and truth and his race is damned.
§
§---
§
§funny, but planet of the apes also foreshadowed the fall of hippiedom.
§ peter fonda: 'we blew it'. woodstock. 400,000 leave to find eden
§and turn a nice farm town into a manure pile and crawl back home to
§take a shower and sleep in their rooms and then ask mom for allowance.
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via
Encryption =---
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| shlemazeltov |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 pm |
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"Kingo Gondo" <kingo_nospam_gondo@zor.org> wrote in message news:<sc4bd.1075893$yk.181282@news.easynews.com>...
Quote: "shlemazeltov" <gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com...
didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
in planet of the apes, heston was brash, defiant, cocky, and
irreverent. even ruthless and reckless.
Major Dundee of the Apes.
dunee was flawed and sometimes hypocritical. but he was a solid dude.
taylor in apes is really an arrogant sumfabitch thru and thru.
Quote:
and, the message was liberal.
It was? What was it?
get off the dope. the message is clear as day. mankind destroyed
itself thru nukes. among apekind, the liberal chimps are better than
fascist gorillians or theocratic oranglergy. the debate at end of the
movie is like the freakin scopes trial.
Quote:
the bad ape was the moses-like oranguatan always talking about need
for spirituality while the liberal chimps were the most sympathetic.
No, he talked about the need to swallow fantastical horseshit as literal
truth; this makes him a bullshitter, nothing more. While this passes for
"conservatism" nowadays from the likes of George W. Bush, it is a far pace
from the then-contemporary conservatism of Barry Goldwater, the reigning
conservative icon of the times--just another sign of how badly the culture
has fallen.
get off the dope. conservatives often stress that we need to maintain
the myth in order to maintain order, keep up the spirits, strengthen
unity.
in fack, it's not just about people on the right. every group that
takes power plays the 'conservative' game to maintain order and
stability.
commies were ideologically leftist but they had to maintain the
sanctity of the state, thereby elevating marx and lenin to demigod
status.
liberals have turned the lying hypocritical woman-hitting drunkard
martin luther king into some kind of a saint. oliver stone sold us
kennedy as bright shining knight felled by cretins. it's a lie but
it's a useful myth. like the wise journalist said in 'man who shot
liberty galance'. when legend becomes fack, print the legend. now, do
you unnerstand what i'm getting at? the oranguatan dude knew he was
defending a lie. however, he understood the greater TRUTH which is
social stability is built upon lies. all civilizations are built
upon myths. myth of god, myth of race, myth of nation, myth of shared
history, myth of whatever. 'all men are created equal', a useful
myth for a constitutional state.
look at the jews and greeks. greeks cared more about finding the
facts of the world but they got destroyed but jews survived and why?
cuz they were united, strengthened, inspired, and encouraged by the
myth of some great lord that governed us all and loved the hebers
especially.
'there are no differences among races', a useful myth for a liberal
state.
'aryans are ubermensch', useful myth for nazi state.
'class warfare is the engine of history', useful myth of marxist
state.
'muhammad is toppermost of poppermost', useful myth for a islamic
theocratic state.
the oranguatan was ruthless and deceitful but he was trying to
preserve and save his apekind. he knew that if apes stopped
discriminating against the humans, humans would become equals and
integrate with apes and there would go the neighborhood. so he had to
maintain the myth of superior ape-ness and the wickedness of
humanness. in fack, the oranguatan knew that humans once had governed
the world. but man was brash and arrogant and built bombs and blew it
all up. if man took power again, man would jive away the world into
armageddon all over. so the oranguatan had to use all means to keep
the human scum down.
while i'm for truth, i also understand the truth that social and
psychological stability is founded on myths and illusions, not on cold
facts.
'american' is a myth. there is no such thing as 'american' that can
be defined scientifically. it's a definition we have created. we
knew it's fiction yet we treat it as though it's a truth and a fact.
we need it to define ourselves culturally, politically, legally, and
historically.
Quote:
planet of the apes is almost like the reverse of ten commandments.
in ten commandments, heston as moses leads an entire people out of
oppression; it's about community.
in planet of the apes, it's just him and the girl; it's about
departing from community.
in ten commandments, heston takes his people away from sinfulness and
go toward god.
in planet of apes, heston takes leave of a world of ruled by spiritual
law--albeit that of apes--and goes off into the wilderness of macho
nihilism.
in ten commandments, heston finds god and truth and his people are
saved.
in planet of apes, heston finds man and truth and his race is damned.
Take your medication before you post next time, Gaza.
get off the dope, and stop pretending you're not gaza. YOU are gaza.
but you've created this myth of the bogeyman gaza that you keep
accusing other people of being.
Quote:
funny, but planet of the apes also foreshadowed the fall of hippiedom.
peter fonda: 'we blew it'. woodstock. 400,000 leave to find eden
and turn a nice farm town into a manure pile and crawl back home to
take a shower and sleep in their rooms and then ask mom for allowance.
How? Was Taylor emblematic of "hippiedom" somehow? He seemed more of a
radical individualist than any kind of communitarian. Let's get the Randians
at it again.
i didn't say heston perse. but, heston represented the free spirit.
he left behind earth as an astro and didn't give a ahit about the
past. he looked into the future. he was into freedom. even free
love with that bimbo.
he got on a horse with a chick like a biker. he was gonna find
himself amidst nature. he didn't care much for science of the chimps,
religions of the orangs, nor the discipline of gorillas. but, he
found out his kind had blown it. not metaphorically but big time. |
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| jeffc |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:02 pm |
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"shlemazeltov" <gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com...
Quote: didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
Right, exactly. What's your point? |
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| jeffc |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:03 pm |
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<merdock@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ee884cbe.0410130947.73c1442d@posting.google.com...
Quote: Uhm.. he wasn't really Moses.
He was too! |
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| Bryce McQuern |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:31 pm |
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Quote: I repeat--take your meds (and read a fucking book now and then)
before you post, Gaza.
These are really harsh words, especially since he's posting on-
topic. Gaza undoubtedly reads books, probably frequently, and
his post was short and actually kind of interesting. The question
was pointed, sure, and you can note that in your response, but he
probably asked such a question looking for a left-field, interesting,
and certainly relevant answer, not, "Heston took the part because he
thought it was good, you f*cking troll tw*t."
If I were Gaza, and Gaza was as unbalanced as you suggest, I would
probably reply to your words with an off-topic, cross-post festival
on the subject of Freudian wish-fulfilment in gangsta rap.
Bryce |
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| Brent McKee |
| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:21 pm |
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Guest
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"shlemazeltov" <gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com...
Quote: didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
First, not everything's about politics.
Second, it didn't go against the "kind of roles he was famous for"; in fact
it is just the type of role he was famous for. In 'Planet of the Apes"
Heston plays a member of an oppressed group -- humans. In "Ben-Hur" Heston
played a member of an oppressed group -- Jews under Roman rule. In "Ten
Commandments" Heston played the leader of an oppressed group -- Jews under
the Egyptians. Remember also that Heston was still very active in the Civil
Rights movement which at the time wasn't exactly the pet cause of American
conservatives, but does fit right in with the pattern of roles I mentioned.
Third, it's a damned good role and they gave him money to play it.
--
Brent McKee
To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from
the email address
"If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly,
in one which is infinitely worse."
- Margaret Atwood
"Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more
constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of
openness to novelty. "
- Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002) |
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| natch |
| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:48 am |
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gonif_mamzer@hotmail.com (shlemazeltov) wrote in message news:<1b887f21.0410122155.625bda61@posting.google.com>...
Quote: didn't it go against the kind of roles he'd been famous for?
he'd played moses, ben-hur, etc. noble, dignified, poised, majestic.
also, movies with reverent and deeply conservative values.
in planet of the apes, heston was brash, defiant, cocky, and
irreverent. even ruthless and reckless. and, the message was liberal.
yeah that makes sense (tongue firmly in cheek)
hey, the apes were a metafor for blacks and Heston represents the
strong white man who, while the other whites sit back and take it,
tries to defy them
Theres a different oddball way you can take it and say its a typical
Heston roll. Same thing with Omega man |
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