question about wireless micing in the rain

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stef

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:33 pm

Guest

If anyone has had any experience using wireless mics in the rain, I could
use your advice. A camera-op friend of mine wants to be able to mic an
ultra-marathoner for a race this weekend and it looks like there's a
possibility of rain. He's borrowed a Sony system, but doesn't know what
model it is. (says there is no antenna on the transmitter). The idea that we
came up with for the time being is to wrap the lav tightly in cellophane and
put a furry over it, and then place the transmitter (also wrapped in
cellophane) in the runner's fanny-pack.
I haven't had any experience with mics and lavs before, so I'm only hoping
that this solution will work for this situation. The runners may be exposed
to the rain for extended periods of time.
If anyone has any practical advice for me, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Stephane

Audiomixer

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:47 pm

Guest

Stef,
You might get a lot of nice crackily sounds with that cellophane on the lav

Quote:

The idea that we
came up with for the time being is to wrap the lav tightly in cellophane and
put a furry over it, and then place the transmitter (also wrapped in
cellophane) in the runner's fanny-pack.

Kurt Albershardt

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:14 pm

Guest

Try a Countryman B6 -- no need for wrapping as long as you have one of the caps on it.

Lectro has waterproof bodypacks but you don't really need to go that far just for rain. A Ziplock and a little tape should do nicely.

Mack

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:25 pm

Guest

You can use the end of a condom,(non lubricated), the finger of a
latex glove, or 'finger cots' around the head of the mic. This will
help w/ moisture destroying the element.

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:33:10 GMT, "stef" <dolphinz656@shaw.ca> wrote:

Quote:

Jean-Paul Bataille

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:07 pm

Guest

Quote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:33:10 GMT, "stef" <dolphinz656@shaw.ca> wrote:

If anyone has had any experience using wireless mics in the rain, I could
use your advice. A camera-op friend of mine wants to be able to mic an
ultra-marathoner for a race this weekend and it looks like there's a
possibility of rain. He's borrowed a Sony system, but doesn't know what
model it is. (says there is no antenna on the transmitter). The idea that we
came up with for the time being is to wrap the lav tightly in cellophane and
put a furry over it, and then place the transmitter (also wrapped in
cellophane) in the runner's fanny-pack.
I haven't had any experience with mics and lavs before, so I'm only hoping
that this solution will work for this situation. The runners may be exposed
to the rain for extended periods of time.
If anyone has any practical advice for me, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Stephane

Cellophane is not good. Lot of noise.
Condom (or thin surgical glove finger) works very well, as long as it
is not stretched on the mike. Try it at home to test. Also some mikes
are more sensible to rubbing noise (the Sony's ECM 77 or 66 are almost
unusable for that purpose)
Furry windjammer is not a good idea as it will retain water and
consequently rapidly muffle the sound. With a condom you don't need a
wind protection that much.
The Countryman is of course a good idea, but you'll want to protect
against the wind, and then find again the trouble of the wind
protection (furry, foam, or clothes) accumulating water and changing
sound, so...
I generally use a condom for the mike, rubber wrapped around the
cable, and a surgical glove (heavy model) for the transmitter, antenna
in one finger, mike cable thru a little hole in another finger, rubber
wrapped again, the wrist part of the glove folded several times and
maintained with rubber band to have access to battery.
Waterproof.
Probably a bit too much for your application, but :
- it will not harm the sound much
- radio transmitter don't like humidity
- if it rains a lot you'll thank yourself
The difficult part is fixing the mike with a condom around. I'm yet
working on that one. One cannot use the standard fixations that will
break the condom more often than not. Adhesives don't work well under
water. Often sport clothes have velcros around the neck that you can
make good use of. Needle and thread works fine if you have time to
rig.
As you're miking a runner, don't forget to fix the mike and the
transmitter very carefully, use safety pins for the cable, leaving
enough loose but not too much, double check everything for the
runner's comfort. Things are moving a lot during marathon.
You have to poke the mike outside the clothes, in a visually
acceptable way, and eventually limit the inevitable mechanical rubbing
noises during the run.
Not easy.
If possible prepare the miking of the clothes at home, and ask the
runner to give you time for testing. If something is wrong, nothing
can be changed during the run.

Good luck.

Jean-Paul Bataille

Jay Farrington

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:20 am

Guest

The runners may be exposed

Quote:

to the rain for extended periods of time.
If anyone has any practical advice for me, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks
Stephane

Cellophane's a bad idea. Period. Kurt's got the right idea. If you
don't have a Countryman lav, rent one. The EMW, B3, or B6 are all
moisture resistant. Go for a B6 if you can get your hands on one.
Use transpore tape(clear, porous medical tape you can find at any
drugstore) to attach the lav (below the element) right to the runners
body - try the well under the sternum. Tape right to the chest hair
if you need to, it will make no difference.

Trying to attach the lav to a runner's clothes is a recipe for
disaster - the clothes will bounce and flop like crazy. Yes, the
transmitter could go in a fanny pack of need be. A ziplock and tape,
as Kurt has suggested, will do fine. As would a waterproof
transmitter from Lectrosonics. A worthwhile rental in this case, I
would think.

Good luck!

-Jay Farrington
www.jayfarrington.com

Jason Porter

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:24 pm

Guest

Great suggestions from everyone.

I work with a guy, on camera, who sweats A-LOT!!, (just like a
"marathoner" would), I use an EMW to resist the moisture and it works
well. I would be concerned with taping the mic to the guys chest, I
don't know how resistant to moisture Transpore really is...has anyone
REALLY tested it under those conditions? You would hate to have the
mic fall off the guys skin mid race...do you think he would mind if
you stopped him to re-apply the mic!! YIKES!

-Jason

stef

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:39 pm

Guest

Quote:

Marty

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:18 pm

Guest

Water on the cable will not interfere with transmission, but having the
antenna (in this case the mic wire) in contact with a wet body will. The
body absorbs RF energy, and a wet one even better. You should also take
care to keep the wire as straight as possible, and not to coil it.

Marty

stef wrote:

Quote:

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm starting to get an idea of what I need
to do.
Jason, I'm not familiar with the term "EMW". What does that stand for?
I just realized I may have another concern. The camera op mentioned to me
earlier that his Sony wireless transmitter had no antenna sticking out of
it. I've heard that in some models the mic cable acts as an antenna. And I'm
guessing that it is the case with this mic. Does this mean I should find a
way to waterproof the cable also? Would moisture on the cable acting as an
antenna interfer with the transmissions.

Stephane

"Jason Porter" <jasonporter@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:a592a30a.0406301424.d613c64@posting.google.com...

Great suggestions from everyone.

I work with a guy, on camera, who sweats A-LOT!!, (just like a
"marathoner" would), I use an EMW to resist the moisture and it works
well. I would be concerned with taping the mic to the guys chest, I
don't know how resistant to moisture Transpore really is...has anyone
REALLY tested it under those conditions? You would hate to have the
mic fall off the guys skin mid race...do you think he would mind if
you stopped him to re-apply the mic!! YIKES!

-Jason

Jay Farrington

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:04 am

Guest

jasonporter@sympatico.ca (Jason Porter) wrote in message news:<a592a30a.0406301424.d613c64@posting.google.com>...

Quote:

Hi Jason,

I have actually done this setup before (okay - once), although the
race was only a 10k and it was NOT raining. The transpore held the
whole time, although it was "ready to go" by the time he was done
(lots of sweat, high humidity). It helped that I taped him while he
was dry and inside where it was air conditioned. The transpore will
hold a LOT longer if applied to a really dry surface to begin with.

Would mole skin be a better solution? It would certainly be
"stickier". Don't know how well it would do in a "sweaty" situation?
Any opinions?

The transpore is porous and actually allows a certain amount of
moisture to pass through the tape itself so it doesn't fail as
quickly. I default to it because I use it so much, but maybe mole
skin is the better advice?

-Jay Farrington
www.jayfarrington.com

Jason Porter

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:08 pm

Guest

Sorry Stef-

Countryman EMW (small flat-style lavalier mic)

www.countryman.com

-Jason

"stef" <dolphinz656@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<HaIEc.916115$Pk3.454651@pd7tw1no>...

Quote:

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm starting to get an idea of what I need
to do.
Jason, I'm not familiar with the term "EMW". What does that stand for?
I just realized I may have another concern. The camera op mentioned to me
earlier that his Sony wireless transmitter had no antenna sticking out of
it. I've heard that in some models the mic cable acts as an antenna. And I'm
guessing that it is the case with this mic. Does this mean I should find a
way to waterproof the cable also? Would moisture on the cable acting as an
antenna interfer with the transmissions.

Stephane

"Jason Porter" <jasonporter@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:a592a30a.0406301424.d613c64@posting.google.com...
Great suggestions from everyone.

I work with a guy, on camera, who sweats A-LOT!!, (just like a
"marathoner" would), I use an EMW to resist the moisture and it works
well. I would be concerned with taping the mic to the guys chest, I
don't know how resistant to moisture Transpore really is...has anyone
REALLY tested it under those conditions? You would hate to have the
mic fall off the guys skin mid race...do you think he would mind if
you stopped him to re-apply the mic!! YIKES!

-Jason

G. John Garrett, C.A.S

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:22 pm

Guest

stef wrote:

Quote:

I did a feature that involved a lot of rain work. I put the transmitters in
inverted ziplock bags and zipped them shut as far as I could, and mounted them
with elastic bandages. The Countryman mics are all waterproof, so there's that
option. I never had any trouble with my Sonotrims or Trams or whatever I used,
but I did get access to the mics between takes if needed.

Good luck,

John

G. John Garrett, C.A.S

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:25 pm

Guest

Jay Farrington wrote:

Quote:

Would mole skin be a better solution? It would certainly be
"stickier". Don't know how well it would do in a "sweaty" situation?
Any opinions?

Moleskin works incredibly well. You just have to keep apologizing when you're
done, removing it.

John

Brad Harper

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:31 pm

Guest

Although, the Countryman and DPA mics are water proof, it doesn't mean that
rain drops or a drop of sweat will not sit on top of the element and sound
terrible. I would suggest mounting the mic facing down. This way drops will
not be able to sit on top of the mic grid.

Brad Harper

Larry Fisher

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:48 am

Guest

The Lectro M150's that we ship with UHF transmitters as "proof" mics
are waterproof in that you can put them in a glass of water and they
will work just fine when back in air. If a bead of water forms on the
screen, however, it has to be removed to allow the passage of sound.
If water is forcefully driven into the mic it will penetrate the
screen with bad results. I mention this not to brag, but if you have
some of these mics laying around, they can be used in wet situations
where you might not want to expose an expensive mic to the elelments.

Larry F
Lectro

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 05:31:09 GMT, "Brad Harper"
<bradharper@comcast.net> wrote:

Quote:

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