I need a little coaching on what keyboard to buy on line. The kind of
junky stuff at Best Buy (Dynex, last time I bought one there) begin to
loose clarity on certain letters withing 2 weeks... and the keyboard
on my gateway laptop is even worse.

I have old keyboards with the old style hookups that lasted literally
for yrs and are still completely clear...although maybe worn shiny the
letters and numbers are basically still pristine.
[...]
Can someone vouch for a currently available (usb) keyboard that has
long lived letters and keys.. even better... letter/keys that are
recessed into the plastic slightly.

Oh, and what should a keyboard with lasting letters/numbers cost?

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html> [SpaceSaver]

I opted for the SpaceSaver -- best keyboard I've had the pleasure to
use in over 25 years (and I've been using keyboards since the 1950s).

Though these may seem pricey (US$69), you are buying quality and
you only need to buy one (instead of having to buy a new junk KB
every 3-4 months) so the savings is phenomenal over several decades.

Finally, I didn't mean to badmouth only Dell's keyboards. Add HP's and
Compaq's to the list of crap keyboards.

FWIW, they also have Linux keyboards with the ESCape key and the
CTRL key in the "proper" places (a la TTY ASR33, Dec VT100, Datamedia DT80,
etc.) and those layouts can be see here:

On 2009-10-11, Thad Floryan <thad at (no spam) thadlabs.com> wrote:

FWIW, they also have Linux keyboards with the ESCape key and the
CTRL key in the "proper" places (a la TTY ASR33, Dec VT100, Datamedia DT80,
etc.) and those layouts can be see here:

I checked those out. I was a bit disappointed, as I don't really see
any advantage with the linux keyboard. I've been using old 105 key
boards so long, I'm used to them and using fluxbox, I can easily
config the k/b how I want it. I use the windows key and Fn keys to
open much used apps. Very handy. I'm looking at the endurapro and
the mightymouse. Being an emacs fan, and not really using the keypad
for much of anything, they may be just the ticket.

As much as I'm loathe to endorse anything from M$, I must put in a
good word for their Microsoft Natural keyboards. They are very well
made and quite sturdy and provide the split ergonomic style I really
prefer. They are much better than the Logitech ergo keyboards, which
are basically crap and start losing keys within the year.

nb

You can never go wrong with the old IBM "M" style keyboards, they are

I need a little coaching on what keyboard to buy on line. The kind of
junky stuff at Best Buy (Dynex, last time I bought one there) begin to
loose clarity on certain letters withing 2 weeks... and the keyboard
on my gateway laptop is even worse.

I have old keyboards with the old style hookups that lasted literally
for yrs and are still completely clear...although maybe worn shiny the
letters and numbers are basically still pristine.

The older boards appear to have the letters etched into the surface,
or recessed into the plastic somehow. Where as the new junky dynex
appears to have something like decals.. or that is, the letter/numbers
appear to be a some kind of applique, and they wear off way to quick.

Looking around on line, its hard to tell if the numbers/letters are
any different than what I have.

I looked at some Keytronic boards that I recall to have been excellent
an long lived... yrs ago... The prices are around $40 which seems a
bit high. Is it?

Can someone vouch for a currently available (usb) keyboard that has
long lived letters and keys.. even better... letter/keys that are
recessed into the plastic slightly.

Oh, and what should a keyboard with lasting letters/numbers cost?

The Unicomp keyboard I mentioned
earlier in this thread does NOT have that problem -- it's probably one
of the finest keyboards available today -- at least I haven't found
any better ones (yet) though I'm always keeping an eye open.

Besides the excellent keyboard feel (I chose Quiet Touch vs. the
IBM buckling spring design), the keytop letters do NOT wear off.
These KBs are available either with PS2 Mini-DIN or USB connection.

Though these may seem pricey (US$69), you are buying quality and
you only need to buy one (instead of having to buy a new junk KB
every 3-4 months) so the savings is phenomenal over several decades.

Thad Floryan <thad at (no spam) thadlabs.com> writes:

Besides the excellent keyboard feel (I chose Quiet Touch vs. the
IBM buckling spring design), the keytop letters do NOT wear off.
These KBs are available either with PS2 Mini-DIN or USB connection.

Looks like exactly what I wanted to be shown. Thanks for the URLS.

Though these may seem pricey (US$69), you are buying quality and
you only need to buy one (instead of having to buy a new junk KB
every 3-4 months) so the savings is phenomenal over several decades.

Yes, it does seem a bit hefty. Especially since I think I remember
buying techtronic boards back around 1996 for something like $20 and
they were pretty durable. I gave up on those two when keyboard went
to ps2. Those were the older connection with a much bigger plug than
the ps2... I kept loosing the adapters and they started getting hard
to find.

Oh thinking of adapters. Where can I get usb to ps2... I have three
laying here in front of me now, all are female usb, male ps2.

I'd like to have a couple that are female ps2 in and male usb out.
Just the opposite of what seems to be the most common.

Sites I've googled up... are very careless about how they describe
adapters and its hard to tell what you might be buying.

Oh thinking of adapters. Where can I get usb to ps2... I have three
laying here in front of me now, all are female usb, male ps2.

Here are 3 different ones I have in my parts box:

http://thadlabs.com/PIX/USB-PS2_adapters.jpg

USB "A" Type Male to PS2 Female Adapter:

http://www.frys.com/product/3470803

There are only two choices available on the market today:

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html
and
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html> [SpaceSaver]

I opted for the SpaceSaver -- best keyboard I've had the pleasure to
use in over 25 years (and I've been using keyboards since the 1950s).

You can see my SpaceSaver here (connected to a 16-port KVM):

http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Thad_desk.jpg

Besides the excellent keyboard feel (I chose Quiet Touch vs. the
IBM buckling spring design), the keytop letters do NOT wear off.
These KBs are available either with PS2 Mini-DIN or USB connection.

Though these may seem pricey (US$69), you are buying quality and
you only need to buy one (instead of having to buy a new junk KB
every 3-4 months) so the savings is phenomenal over several decades.

On 10/12/2009 8:25 AM, notbob wrote:



On 2009-10-12, Chris Cox <chrisnc... at (no spam) endlessnow.com> wrote:

Good question.  Perhaps keyboards have become disposables now?  Maybe
the idea is to purchase a $15 keyboard very year or so?  

Looking forward to the replies on this one.

There is no "perhaps" to it.  It's an indisputable fact.  Most
keyboards are designed to be tossed.  

I've taken apart logitech keyboards due to loss of key contact.  The
only way they will not eventually wear out and become non-functional
is if you don't ever press the keys.  The contact points between the
keys and the electronics is a piece of mylar with electrically
conductive carbon based paint-on traces leading to the IC board.  When
the paint wears off ...and by design, there's no avoiding it... that's
it.  Dead keys.  Dead keyboard.  I had 3 of them.  They all died the
same inevitable death.

Right.  As I wrote earlier, I'd go through 6-8 Dell QuietKey KBs
a year -- simply wear them out. Junk contacts, Junk switches, Junk.

And the suggestion (above) to purchase a $15 keyboard every year or so
is really false economy; said keyboard probably has other problems
such as the inability to keep up with a fast typist (one of my biggest
gripes about the Dell keyboards).  The Unicomp keyboard I mentioned
earlier in this thread does NOT have that problem -- it's probably one
of the finest keyboards available today -- at least I haven't found any
better ones (yet) though I'm always keeping an eye open.

Now this is just me, but I really cannot get excited about the so-called
ergonomic keyboards. I've been typing since the early 1950s (IBM electric
typewriter) and even today I use a keyboard 12-16 hours day and have no
problems doing so probably because my chair and arms are all at the
correct positions with respect to the keyboard.  And don't even mention a
Dvorak keyboard; one of my best friends uses one (KVM'd to his Linux and
MacOS X boxes) and it drives me crazy when I sit down and try to use it
(and he's 82 years old :-)

Reflecting back over the decades, the best keyboards I've used all had
relatively large keyswitches.  The biggest I recall were used in the
Datapoint 3300 terminal; the switches were mercury-based and about 2"
long. The best keyboard I ever used was on the Datamedia DT80 (a VT100
clone); that lasted me over 20 years ('til the CRT died) and I could
never out-type its KB; the KB was thick, though, about 2". The keyboards
on my AT&T UNIXpc (aka 3B1 aka PC7300) also were pretty good and they
(the 3B1s) still work fine after 25 years now (all three of them).

And right now I'm really happy and pleased with the Unicomp SpaceSaver.

On Oct 12, 12:13 pm, Thad Floryan <t... at (no spam) thadlabs.com> wrote:



On 10/12/2009 8:25 AM, notbob wrote:

On 2009-10-12, Chris Cox <chrisnc... at (no spam) endlessnow.com> wrote:

Good question.  Perhaps keyboards have become disposables now?  Maybe
the idea is to purchase a $15 keyboard very year or so?  

Looking forward to the replies on this one.

There is no "perhaps" to it.  It's an indisputable fact.  Most
keyboards are designed to be tossed.  

I've taken apart logitech keyboards due to loss of key contact.  The
only way they will not eventually wear out and become non-functional
is if you don't ever press the keys.  The contact points between the
keys and the electronics is a piece of mylar with electrically
conductive carbon based paint-on traces leading to the IC board.  When
the paint wears off ...and by design, there's no avoiding it... that's
it.  Dead keys.  Dead keyboard.  I had 3 of them.  They all died the
same inevitable death.

Right.  As I wrote earlier, I'd go through 6-8 Dell QuietKey KBs
a year -- simply wear them out. Junk contacts, Junk switches, Junk.

And the suggestion (above) to purchase a $15 keyboard every year or so
is really false economy; said keyboard probably has other problems
such as the inability to keep up with a fast typist (one of my biggest
gripes about the Dell keyboards).  The Unicomp keyboard I mentioned
earlier in this thread does NOT have that problem -- it's probably one
of the finest keyboards available today -- at least I haven't found any
better ones (yet) though I'm always keeping an eye open.

Now this is just me, but I really cannot get excited about the so-called
ergonomic keyboards. I've been typing since the early 1950s (IBM electric
typewriter) and even today I use a keyboard 12-16 hours day and have no
problems doing so probably because my chair and arms are all at the
correct positions with respect to the keyboard.  And don't even mention a
Dvorak keyboard; one of my best friends uses one (KVM'd to his Linux and
MacOS X boxes) and it drives me crazy when I sit down and try to use it
(and he's 82 years old :-)

Reflecting back over the decades, the best keyboards I've used all had
relatively large keyswitches.  The biggest I recall were used in the
Datapoint 3300 terminal; the switches were mercury-based and about 2"
long. The best keyboard I ever used was on the Datamedia DT80 (a VT100
clone); that lasted me over 20 years ('til the CRT died) and I could
never out-type its KB; the KB was thick, though, about 2". The keyboards
on my AT&T UNIXpc (aka 3B1 aka PC7300) also were pretty good and they
(the 3B1s) still work fine after 25 years now (all three of them).

And right now I'm really happy and pleased with the Unicomp SpaceSaver.

My somewhat unique solution: I am currently using a Packard Bell
keyboard (9 pin)
rescued from a junked computer given me by a relative. It replaced the
keyboard that
came with my newish Systemax no os computer. Already keycaps on that
one are illegible.
 Both keyboards made in China.

Truly they don't make them like they used to.

John Culleton

Truly they don't make them like they used to.

Perhaps not, but you can still buy them like they made them: